Lowering the cost of MX racing

Trav138
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Trav138 11/15/2013 9:52am
11/15/2013 9:52am
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
Not true. New 2 strokes Msrp 7150. Never have any rebates either. Only reason I picked up a 13 yz450 was because with all factory incentives...
Not true. New 2 strokes Msrp 7150. Never have any rebates either.

Only reason I picked up a 13 yz450 was because with all factory incentives I paid 5900 OTD in Ohio. Couldn't get close to 7600 OTD for a BNG 2013 yz250.

2 strokes are just expensive. People who race are still doing rebuilds and dumping large amounts of money into them.
Not true on 2 strokes. I see yz and ktm 's marked down all over. Cernics has a ktm 250 for 5300$ and yz's were the same now their 5900 and he doesn't clobber you out the door. A local dealer was offering a discounted yz250 and a 500$ part allowance. My point is deals are around.
I agree the difference in cost is not stopping new folks from getting in the sport. Its just a cumulative cost of everything that is just to much for most middle class families to indulge.
I see great bikes for 2-3 grand all over 2 and 4 stroke.
Moto_Geek
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Moto_Geek 11/15/2013 9:58am
11/15/2013 9:58am
The Rock wrote:
Could our sport embrace the idea of having larger engines detuned for stock classes either via intake and exhaust restrictions or fuel/ignition mapping then as the...
Could our sport embrace the idea of having larger engines detuned for stock classes either via intake and exhaust restrictions or fuel/ignition mapping then as the rider's ability improves the engine gets opened up to it's full stock potential? This still leaves the door wide open for aftermarket tuners. Could you get a 450F for Johnny or Susie but have it tuned like a 250F?

Goal would be to save families from having to buy as many bikes or at least extend the time period between purchases. I know this isn't what the manufacturers want but if you believe having a lower costs would increase participation then this might be one way to accomplish it.......or maybe it's a terrible idea.
Man you are a thinker.. I just bought a KTM 300XC. Wonder if my local AMA sanctioned race club will let me race with the 450's? That is your assignment Rock if you happen to choose this mission. Forum message will self destruct in 5 minutes.
Moto_Geek
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Moto_Geek 11/15/2013 10:00am
11/15/2013 10:00am
LocDawg wrote:
there are lots of people with disposable incomes but they work in knowledge fields like engineering, finance, law, business, etc most of them, from what ive...
there are lots of people with disposable incomes but they work in knowledge fields like engineering, finance, law, business, etc

most of them, from what ive concluded is that they don't participate in poor people activities and MX is one of them.

and they certainly aren't going to get their kids involved either
I would beg to differ on this comment. I think with these careers comes more responsibility in not getting hurt to keep their plush jobs. So I see all these careers still riding, just not in a race.
newmann
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newmann 11/15/2013 10:11am
11/15/2013 10:11am
BobPA wrote:
Running a class for 1990's era machines will only lower the initial cost of the bike, entry fees, fuel, etc. will stay the same. What happens...
Running a class for 1990's era machines will only lower the initial cost of the bike, entry fees, fuel, etc. will stay the same. What happens to the maintenance cost when one of those 18 year old 2 smokers blows a tranny, or a crank.

It's an expensive hobby, all there is to it
Buy a used lower end off Fleabay and fix that tranny. There are a lot of bikes out there in the $2000.00 range and under that make excellent race bikes. Stuff hasn't changed much in the last decade for half the people that ride to either notice or make a difference. 2 strokes are a no brainer as are most 450's if that's your game. I'd steer clear of most any 250F in that price range unless you knew the bikes history from day one. My neighbor a few blocks over had a 08 or 09 KTM250F enduro model that I bet he did not have 5 easy hours total on. He got tired of moving it to get the lawnmower in and out of the garage so he sold it to a local dealer for $1700.00! The bike really was brand new. That would have been a excellent bike for someone.

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newmann
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newmann 11/15/2013 10:15am
11/15/2013 10:15am
LocDawg wrote:
there are lots of people with disposable incomes but they work in knowledge fields like engineering, finance, law, business, etc most of them, from what ive...
there are lots of people with disposable incomes but they work in knowledge fields like engineering, finance, law, business, etc

most of them, from what ive concluded is that they don't participate in poor people activities and MX is one of them.

and they certainly aren't going to get their kids involved either
I know plenty of doctors, lawyers, professional business types and successful business owners who ride and have kids that ride. They do have the money to do so.
Michael499
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Michael499 11/15/2013 10:21am
11/15/2013 10:21am
(1) There are a lot of of us in engineering, the law and other professions. When I look at the sea of massive motor homes at the races I suspect there must be a lot of "old money" financing amateur racing as I have trouble imagining any regular job with the disposable income necessary to sustain the lifestyle. To keep any middle class sport alive one should budget from the view point of a single person making around 50-60k a year. Subtract for rent, food, a little social, then assume they eat, breathe and sleep the sport. See what they have to spend. That's the real number.

(2) Two strokes may not be the answer some old timers like to pleasantly remember. Our KX85 parts bills were over twice the costs of our CRF150r bills. Hands down the 150r was more reliable in every respect. All our parts are sourced though ATVs and More and anyone there can back this up. A properly maintained four stroke motor will simply last longer. In one season we bent two valves. On the KX250f changing pistons at 25-35 hours, valves at 50-60 and cranks at 80-100. Considering what these engines are put through, it's hard to complain. We change oil daily and our filters are clean with outer filters as well. Your results may vary depending on maintenance practices.

(3) Lowering the cost of the sport is simple. First, increase track time. A and B should be at least 15 minutes plus a lap. All others, except 50s, 12 minutes plus a lap. In the midwest we've timed races at 7-8 minutes. It's hard not to feel ripped off. Race turnout is down. Practice turnout is not. Some classes may have to be cancelled to increase race track time. Promoters have increased classes and decreased track time. This has harmed the sport. Second. Credit the racer's gate fee towards the first entry fee. Third, lower the ridiculous gate fees and cap them. Think about the cost of a family of 5 or more? Or a grandma or grandpa? Why not allow a whole family in, a carload for a flat fee? It's supposed to be a family sport. Next knock off the high pit bike charges. What's next a "foot traffic fee?" In Ohio we were charged $15 each time we used the hydrant pump for non potable water for a 35 gallon container. There are two theories: one is what is seemingly being practiced, to take a small market and bleed it to death; the second theory is to lower costs, provide a better service and increase the market and in the end increase revenue.
FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 11/15/2013 10:40am
11/15/2013 10:40am Edited Date/Time 11/15/2013 10:41am
newmann wrote:
Buy a used lower end off Fleabay and fix that tranny. There are a lot of bikes out there in the $2000.00 range and under that...
Buy a used lower end off Fleabay and fix that tranny. There are a lot of bikes out there in the $2000.00 range and under that make excellent race bikes. Stuff hasn't changed much in the last decade for half the people that ride to either notice or make a difference. 2 strokes are a no brainer as are most 450's if that's your game. I'd steer clear of most any 250F in that price range unless you knew the bikes history from day one. My neighbor a few blocks over had a 08 or 09 KTM250F enduro model that I bet he did not have 5 easy hours total on. He got tired of moving it to get the lawnmower in and out of the garage so he sold it to a local dealer for $1700.00! The bike really was brand new. That would have been a excellent bike for someone.
Like this? http://yubasutter.craigslist.org/mcy/4139962492.html

or this? http://sacramento.craigslist.org/mcy/4188328163.html

or this? http://reno.craigslist.org/mcy/4143684967.html

There are a ton of decent smokers in the Norcal northwestern Nevada area from a low $1K's to mid $2ks from mid 90 CR's to late 2000 YZ's.
LocDawg
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LocDawg 11/15/2013 11:05am
11/15/2013 11:05am
LocDawg wrote:
there are lots of people with disposable incomes but they work in knowledge fields like engineering, finance, law, business, etc most of them, from what ive...
there are lots of people with disposable incomes but they work in knowledge fields like engineering, finance, law, business, etc

most of them, from what ive concluded is that they don't participate in poor people activities and MX is one of them.

and they certainly aren't going to get their kids involved either
newmann wrote:
I know plenty of doctors, lawyers, professional business types and successful business owners who ride and have kids that ride. They do have the money to...
I know plenty of doctors, lawyers, professional business types and successful business owners who ride and have kids that ride. They do have the money to do so.
lol, im not saying they dont at all, ive met some as well but lets be serious. go to any local race or an open practice and its usually middle class blue collar types

i guess it depends on where you live but ive been to tracks here in texas, the north west and northeast and concluded thats its mostly the same types wherever you go.

im sure CA is the exception though, serious $$$ in SoCal
cwtoyota
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cwtoyota 11/15/2013 11:42am
11/15/2013 11:42am
JB 19 wrote:
People having 100$ cell phone bills, and 150$ cable/satelite/internet bill, 1300$ house payments, 600$ truck payments and 4$ Starbucks coffee are a few issues I have...
People having 100$ cell phone bills, and 150$ cable/satelite/internet bill, 1300$ house payments, 600$ truck payments and 4$ Starbucks coffee are a few issues I have brought up to people. No doubt that people as a whole are earning less in terms of cost of living, but in the last 6-8 years it has become normal for people to blow money on things that I just don't understand.

Sometimes people need to help them selves too.
The modern business model is not to sell a product, but to sell a service. Buy a DVD vs rent a cable-box. That $4.00 coffee should be an occasional treat, buy some Folgers and a $30 coffee-pot.

Living that way, a guy can save up ahead of time and pay cash for a new or used bike. That still doesn't change the cost of a weekend racing.
The Rock
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The Rock 11/15/2013 11:58am
11/15/2013 11:58am
Michael499 wrote:
(1) There are a lot of of us in engineering, the law and other professions. When I look at the sea of massive motor homes at...
(1) There are a lot of of us in engineering, the law and other professions. When I look at the sea of massive motor homes at the races I suspect there must be a lot of "old money" financing amateur racing as I have trouble imagining any regular job with the disposable income necessary to sustain the lifestyle. To keep any middle class sport alive one should budget from the view point of a single person making around 50-60k a year. Subtract for rent, food, a little social, then assume they eat, breathe and sleep the sport. See what they have to spend. That's the real number.

(2) Two strokes may not be the answer some old timers like to pleasantly remember. Our KX85 parts bills were over twice the costs of our CRF150r bills. Hands down the 150r was more reliable in every respect. All our parts are sourced though ATVs and More and anyone there can back this up. A properly maintained four stroke motor will simply last longer. In one season we bent two valves. On the KX250f changing pistons at 25-35 hours, valves at 50-60 and cranks at 80-100. Considering what these engines are put through, it's hard to complain. We change oil daily and our filters are clean with outer filters as well. Your results may vary depending on maintenance practices.

(3) Lowering the cost of the sport is simple. First, increase track time. A and B should be at least 15 minutes plus a lap. All others, except 50s, 12 minutes plus a lap. In the midwest we've timed races at 7-8 minutes. It's hard not to feel ripped off. Race turnout is down. Practice turnout is not. Some classes may have to be cancelled to increase race track time. Promoters have increased classes and decreased track time. This has harmed the sport. Second. Credit the racer's gate fee towards the first entry fee. Third, lower the ridiculous gate fees and cap them. Think about the cost of a family of 5 or more? Or a grandma or grandpa? Why not allow a whole family in, a carload for a flat fee? It's supposed to be a family sport. Next knock off the high pit bike charges. What's next a "foot traffic fee?" In Ohio we were charged $15 each time we used the hydrant pump for non potable water for a 35 gallon container. There are two theories: one is what is seemingly being practiced, to take a small market and bleed it to death; the second theory is to lower costs, provide a better service and increase the market and in the end increase revenue.
(3) Lowering the cost of the sport is simple. First, increase track time. A and B should be at least 15 minutes plus a lap. All others, except 50s, 12 minutes plus a lap. In the midwest we've timed races at 7-8 minutes. It's hard not to feel ripped off. Race turnout is down. Practice turnout is not. Some classes may have to be cancelled to increase race track time. Promoters have increased classes and decreased track time. This has harmed the sport. Second. Credit the racer's gate fee towards the first entry fee. Third, lower the ridiculous gate fees and cap them. Think about the cost of a family of 5 or more? Or a grandma or grandpa? Why not allow a whole family in, a carload for a flat fee? It's supposed to be a family sport.

The track time issue you raise is the reason many SoCal racers have turned to SRA GPs to get more seat time. They also don't have to be at the track/desert all day as they show up, race and go home. When I was racing big amateur races in CA and the days would be LONG and the motos SHORT I always wondered why they didn't split the classes in two and have a AM program and a PM program.

Fortunately for me 90 percent of the racing I did in SoCal was with REM and track time is never an issue with them. Multiple gates on the track at once allows for long motos and still get done in time....and in their case by 3 PM at the latest usually.

Hopefully other promoters will get it they need to deliver longer motos to keep racers spending 100 bucks plus a race day to ride.
cwtoyota
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cwtoyota 11/15/2013 2:29pm
11/15/2013 2:29pm
The Rock wrote:
[i](3) Lowering the cost of the sport is simple. First, increase track time. A and B should be at least 15 minutes plus a lap. All...
(3) Lowering the cost of the sport is simple. First, increase track time. A and B should be at least 15 minutes plus a lap. All others, except 50s, 12 minutes plus a lap. In the midwest we've timed races at 7-8 minutes. It's hard not to feel ripped off. Race turnout is down. Practice turnout is not. Some classes may have to be cancelled to increase race track time. Promoters have increased classes and decreased track time. This has harmed the sport. Second. Credit the racer's gate fee towards the first entry fee. Third, lower the ridiculous gate fees and cap them. Think about the cost of a family of 5 or more? Or a grandma or grandpa? Why not allow a whole family in, a carload for a flat fee? It's supposed to be a family sport.

The track time issue you raise is the reason many SoCal racers have turned to SRA GPs to get more seat time. They also don't have to be at the track/desert all day as they show up, race and go home. When I was racing big amateur races in CA and the days would be LONG and the motos SHORT I always wondered why they didn't split the classes in two and have a AM program and a PM program.

Fortunately for me 90 percent of the racing I did in SoCal was with REM and track time is never an issue with them. Multiple gates on the track at once allows for long motos and still get done in time....and in their case by 3 PM at the latest usually.

Hopefully other promoters will get it they need to deliver longer motos to keep racers spending 100 bucks plus a race day to ride.
I have to agree about the track time. I find myself racing two or more classes to get the extra laps at every race. I'd be more than happy to get 5th in a larger class with a 20 min moto, than win a 10 min moto with only 5 guys on the gate.
TbonesPop 11/15/2013 4:27pm
11/15/2013 4:27pm
LocDawg wrote:
there are lots of people with disposable incomes but they work in knowledge fields like engineering, finance, law, business, etc most of them, from what ive...
there are lots of people with disposable incomes but they work in knowledge fields like engineering, finance, law, business, etc

most of them, from what ive concluded is that they don't participate in poor people activities and MX is one of them.

and they certainly aren't going to get their kids involved either
Moto_Geek wrote:
I would beg to differ on this comment. I think with these careers comes more responsibility in not getting hurt to keep their plush jobs. So...
I would beg to differ on this comment. I think with these careers comes more responsibility in not getting hurt to keep their plush jobs. So I see all these careers still riding, just not in a race.
I agree with what you wrote. I work in the oil and gas industry as a chemical engineer. I'm responsible for millions of dollars of business and equipment. I can't afford to be down and out in the hospital for 3-6 months. I just have too much responsibility. Additionally, my life insurance policy doesn't cover me if I die "racing" motorcycles. Now, I can "ride" motorcycles. I just can't race. As a result, I don't race but ride all the time. I take our kids riding all the time. We have 4 dirt bikes, buy all kinds of gear, after market parts, go to local races to support local riders, and we go to the Pro races every year (SX, etc). I have co-workers that do the same with their families. So while I wouldn't consider myself "rich", I do feel very blessed (but keep in mind I worked my ass off all my life to get to this point - neither of my parents handed me anything and neither did their parents. We've earned it every step of the way). That said, I pump money into this sport every week of the year.

It's funny someone considers MX "poor people activities". That's ridiculous. Soccer is a "poor people sport" (no offense to soccer fans), that's why it is so popular around the world in many 3rd world countries. All you need is a round ball to play it (don't even need shoes to be honest). Goals can be made from just about anything.
LocDawg
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LocDawg 11/15/2013 5:24pm
11/15/2013 5:24pm
LocDawg wrote:
there are lots of people with disposable incomes but they work in knowledge fields like engineering, finance, law, business, etc most of them, from what ive...
there are lots of people with disposable incomes but they work in knowledge fields like engineering, finance, law, business, etc

most of them, from what ive concluded is that they don't participate in poor people activities and MX is one of them.

and they certainly aren't going to get their kids involved either
Moto_Geek wrote:
I would beg to differ on this comment. I think with these careers comes more responsibility in not getting hurt to keep their plush jobs. So...
I would beg to differ on this comment. I think with these careers comes more responsibility in not getting hurt to keep their plush jobs. So I see all these careers still riding, just not in a race.
TbonesPop wrote:
I agree with what you wrote. I work in the oil and gas industry as a chemical engineer. I'm responsible for millions of dollars of business...
I agree with what you wrote. I work in the oil and gas industry as a chemical engineer. I'm responsible for millions of dollars of business and equipment. I can't afford to be down and out in the hospital for 3-6 months. I just have too much responsibility. Additionally, my life insurance policy doesn't cover me if I die "racing" motorcycles. Now, I can "ride" motorcycles. I just can't race. As a result, I don't race but ride all the time. I take our kids riding all the time. We have 4 dirt bikes, buy all kinds of gear, after market parts, go to local races to support local riders, and we go to the Pro races every year (SX, etc). I have co-workers that do the same with their families. So while I wouldn't consider myself "rich", I do feel very blessed (but keep in mind I worked my ass off all my life to get to this point - neither of my parents handed me anything and neither did their parents. We've earned it every step of the way). That said, I pump money into this sport every week of the year.

It's funny someone considers MX "poor people activities". That's ridiculous. Soccer is a "poor people sport" (no offense to soccer fans), that's why it is so popular around the world in many 3rd world countries. All you need is a round ball to play it (don't even need shoes to be honest). Goals can be made from just about anything.
i shouldnt have said poor

what i meant was, uneducated, unsophisticated types. this is part of the problem IMO, next to astronomical costs, is the type of people who are into MX
mark_swart
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mark_swart 11/15/2013 5:32pm
11/15/2013 5:32pm
Michael499 wrote:
(1) There are a lot of of us in engineering, the law and other professions. When I look at the sea of massive motor homes at...
(1) There are a lot of of us in engineering, the law and other professions. When I look at the sea of massive motor homes at the races I suspect there must be a lot of "old money" financing amateur racing as I have trouble imagining any regular job with the disposable income necessary to sustain the lifestyle. To keep any middle class sport alive one should budget from the view point of a single person making around 50-60k a year. Subtract for rent, food, a little social, then assume they eat, breathe and sleep the sport. See what they have to spend. That's the real number.

(2) Two strokes may not be the answer some old timers like to pleasantly remember. Our KX85 parts bills were over twice the costs of our CRF150r bills. Hands down the 150r was more reliable in every respect. All our parts are sourced though ATVs and More and anyone there can back this up. A properly maintained four stroke motor will simply last longer. In one season we bent two valves. On the KX250f changing pistons at 25-35 hours, valves at 50-60 and cranks at 80-100. Considering what these engines are put through, it's hard to complain. We change oil daily and our filters are clean with outer filters as well. Your results may vary depending on maintenance practices.

(3) Lowering the cost of the sport is simple. First, increase track time. A and B should be at least 15 minutes plus a lap. All others, except 50s, 12 minutes plus a lap. In the midwest we've timed races at 7-8 minutes. It's hard not to feel ripped off. Race turnout is down. Practice turnout is not. Some classes may have to be cancelled to increase race track time. Promoters have increased classes and decreased track time. This has harmed the sport. Second. Credit the racer's gate fee towards the first entry fee. Third, lower the ridiculous gate fees and cap them. Think about the cost of a family of 5 or more? Or a grandma or grandpa? Why not allow a whole family in, a carload for a flat fee? It's supposed to be a family sport. Next knock off the high pit bike charges. What's next a "foot traffic fee?" In Ohio we were charged $15 each time we used the hydrant pump for non potable water for a 35 gallon container. There are two theories: one is what is seemingly being practiced, to take a small market and bleed it to death; the second theory is to lower costs, provide a better service and increase the market and in the end increase revenue.
(2) Two strokes may not be the answer some old timers like to pleasantly remember. Our KX85 parts bills were over twice the costs of our CRF150r bills. Hands down the 150r was more reliable in every respect. All our parts are sourced though ATVs and More and anyone there can back this up. A properly maintained four stroke motor will simply last longer. In one season we bent two valves. On the KX250f changing pistons at 25-35 hours, valves at 50-60 and cranks at 80-100. Considering what these engines are put through, it's hard to complain. We change oil daily and our filters are clean with outer filters as well. Your results may vary depending on maintenance practices.

I appreciate your numbers and extremely well thought out answer, but I have a hard time buying into this one. I raced and practiced on a number of two-stroke bikes from 87-95. They were ridden almost every day. In that time I replaced zero cranks and had zero crank failures. We replaced piston/rings only at specified intervals. And of course zero replacement valves/cams/valve springs or head recuts. I haven't looked at the prices for the 85 vs 150, but I can tell you for sure that 250F vs 250T is no comparison when it comes to maintenance costs. You also don't even have to consider changing the oil every ride (but yes you do have the added expense of buying premix). There's a reason that hour meters weren't common on dirt bikes until the high performance four strokers became common.
Two strokes may or may not be the answer, but IMHO not because of maintenance costs.
Tarz483
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Tarz483 11/15/2013 6:24pm
11/15/2013 6:24pm
newmann wrote:
Buy a used lower end off Fleabay and fix that tranny. There are a lot of bikes out there in the $2000.00 range and under that...
Buy a used lower end off Fleabay and fix that tranny. There are a lot of bikes out there in the $2000.00 range and under that make excellent race bikes. Stuff hasn't changed much in the last decade for half the people that ride to either notice or make a difference. 2 strokes are a no brainer as are most 450's if that's your game. I'd steer clear of most any 250F in that price range unless you knew the bikes history from day one. My neighbor a few blocks over had a 08 or 09 KTM250F enduro model that I bet he did not have 5 easy hours total on. He got tired of moving it to get the lawnmower in and out of the garage so he sold it to a local dealer for $1700.00! The bike really was brand new. That would have been a excellent bike for someone.
FreshTopEnd wrote:
Like this? [url=http://yubasutter.craigslist.org/mcy/4139962492.html]http://yubasutter.craigslist.org/mcy/4139962492.html[/url] or this? [url=http://sacramento.craigslist.org/mcy/4188328163.html]http://sacramento.craigslist.org/mcy/4188328163.html[/url] or this? [url=http://reno.craigslist.org/mcy/4143684967.html]http://reno.craigslist.org/mcy/4143684967.html[/url] There are a ton of decent smokers in the Norcal northwestern Nevada area from a low $1K's...
Like this? http://yubasutter.craigslist.org/mcy/4139962492.html

or this? http://sacramento.craigslist.org/mcy/4188328163.html

or this? http://reno.craigslist.org/mcy/4143684967.html

There are a ton of decent smokers in the Norcal northwestern Nevada area from a low $1K's to mid $2ks from mid 90 CR's to late 2000 YZ's.
+1
And I'd like to buy any of the
But i would prefer to race others on similar bikes personally
That last rm125 looks really sweet
Tarz483
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Tarz483 11/15/2013 6:32pm
11/15/2013 6:32pm
JustMX wrote:
Our sport is so completely jacked up right now. 8 year olds on 50cc bikes producing more HP than 100cc race bikes did back when they...
Our sport is so completely jacked up right now.

8 year olds on 50cc bikes producing more HP than 100cc race bikes did back when they were racing.

4 year olds on Cobras

13 year olds on 450 four strokes.

It is just completely nuts.

I am sorry, but they days when an amateur rider should be racing a machine with the same level of a bike that RD5 or RV1 should have gone away a long time ago.

The nameless, faceless people who have made the decisions that are killing our sport are smart to remain nameless and faceless.

How about the rampant cheating at the amateur level. Guys run overbores and joke about it.

Up until a couple of years ago if you were torn down and found to be illegal or refused to submit to a tear down, it was a one year suspension.

Now, you are disqualified for that event......

The only events that you could bet people are legal is regionals and the finals at LL's.

Sure, there are valid arguements for two strokes vs fourstrokes, but the fact is that there are so many absolutely ignorant decisions that have come down the pipe that we will be lucky if this sport is still around at any kind of local level in another 10 years.

If you want to see where it is going, look at ATV racing.

hardly anything anymore on the local level, and the people that race the nationals in the AM classes devote everything to that series.

They don't run any events on back to back weekends so that the participants can fix the stuff that they tear up before the next round.
Very well put
And a whole lotta truth here..
bd
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bd 11/16/2013 12:07am
11/16/2013 12:07am
The Rock wrote:
Could our sport embrace the idea of having larger engines detuned for stock classes either via intake and exhaust restrictions or fuel/ignition mapping then as the...
Could our sport embrace the idea of having larger engines detuned for stock classes either via intake and exhaust restrictions or fuel/ignition mapping then as the rider's ability improves the engine gets opened up to it's full stock potential? This still leaves the door wide open for aftermarket tuners. Could you get a 450F for Johnny or Susie but have it tuned like a 250F?

Goal would be to save families from having to buy as many bikes or at least extend the time period between purchases. I know this isn't what the manufacturers want but if you believe having a lower costs would increase participation then this might be one way to accomplish it.......or maybe it's a terrible idea.
How about government policy that taxes less and increases median income. Maybe its not cosmoto we should be concerned about....
-eagle-
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-eagle- 11/16/2013 6:01am
11/16/2013 6:01am
Affordable Motocross Racing. That's funny.

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Tumblin
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Tumblin 11/16/2013 10:28am
11/16/2013 10:28am
When my 450 has to be gone through it will be sold. When I raced 10 or 20 times a year it made sense to Annie in for a new model....just for the security of knowing it was fresh and not going to snap mid Moto. That's good insurance with usually added performance. Now that there's no Moto inside of 3 hours drive, I'll play on the 125. But will enjoy chasing after the 450s when Moto does come to town or I make that trek with my pea-shooter.
Grizz
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Grizz 11/16/2013 3:53pm
11/16/2013 3:53pm
If you want to lower the cost of racing, don't spend as much.
lumpy790
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lumpy790 11/17/2013 7:06am
11/17/2013 7:06am
how about a half throttle class?
dantheman
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dantheman 11/17/2013 9:40am
11/17/2013 9:40am
Can you lower the cost of "anything" when you have a private bank(Federal Reserve) dumping $85 BILLION a month of worthless currency into the(your) economy??? It's rhetorical, NO, you can't!

Couple that with the very REAL problem that banks never "loan" you anything... from "Modern Money Mechanics" published by the "Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago":

" ...the banks with excess reserves probably will have opportunities to loan the $9,000. Of course, they do not really pay out loans from the money they receive as deposits. If they did this, no additional money would be created. What they do when they make loans is to accept promissory notes in exchange for credits to the borrowers' transaction accounts. Loans (assets) and deposits (liabilities) both rise by $9,000(the amount of the "loan"). Reserves are unchanged by the loan transactions. But the deposit credits constitute new additions to the total deposits of the banking system."

I ask, when is the last time you "lent" someone money, and instantly you had MORE money than you began with? AND... they "owed" you that money back... WITH interests! This is typically called counterfeiting, and is a criminal act for you and I.

Once you fully understand this, then you'll understand that the underlying problem is Americans need monetary reform MORE than any other issue discussed, or not discussed as it may be! After all, it's what July FOURTH stands for! The founding fathers standing up to the King of England and not serving under the rule of a Central Bank!

I know this is to "messy" for Moto, my apologies. I just felt a need to type it up, carry on Wink
jakeeee
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jakeeee 11/17/2013 12:50pm
11/17/2013 12:50pm
Tarz483 wrote:
I'd like to see some classes that are truly stock . Suspension mods only . It seems a lot of the time the deepest pockets wins...
I'd like to see some classes that are truly stock
. Suspension mods only .
It seems a lot of the time the deepest pockets wins .
Even at club level . 50s 85s
All the way up
That would even it out a bit and keep cost a little lower
That and some entry level type bike races as some one else said
.. slower . Safer less suspension.cheaper..and still fun.
lostboy819 wrote:
I would rather have great suspension that more HP
thats why im going yam! hahahah

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