Motocross Shifting without the Clutch???

Gilletty
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Gilletty 9/29/2013 1:19am
9/29/2013 1:19am
I have never used the clutch for upshifting or backed off the throttle. Never had a gearbox problem in the last 30yrs of riding/racing.
Kartwheel84c
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Kartwheel84c 9/29/2013 2:49am
9/29/2013 2:49am
Shifting under a load is bad, unloading the transmission when you shift is what is important. Whether you do that with the clutch or chopping the throttle for an instant is irrelevant, they accomplish the same thing. Personally, I dont use the clutch and just chop the throttle for an instant, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with using the clutch either.
GarySemics
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GarySemics 9/29/2013 6:38am
9/29/2013 6:38am
Gilletty wrote:
I have never used the clutch for upshifting or backed off the throttle. Never had a gearbox problem in the last 30yrs of riding/racing.
Let me get this straight. So what you're saying is that every time you upshifted for the last 30 years you never used the clutch or backed off the throttle????????????????????????? WHAT??????? How is anyone suppose to take this other than a joke???

Maybe in the last 30 years you only rode once and upshifted once.
Radical
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Radical 9/29/2013 9:53pm
9/29/2013 9:53pm
I take everything I said yesterday back. I went riding today and realized that I hardly ever use the clutch when up shifting and seldom when downshifting. I just time it right with the throttle. No transmission problems because there's no pressure on the gears.

I don't know if many people know this, but it's possible to shift a car without using the clutch as well. Not as easy, but possible.

The Shop

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GeorgiePorgie 9/29/2013 10:38pm
9/29/2013 10:38pm
Johnston1 wrote:
I never let off when I shift just hold it wfo and I have never had a problem with any of my bikes but then again...
I never let off when I shift just hold it wfo and I have never had a problem with any of my bikes but then again I get rid of my bikes every 50 hours so maybe they have a problem on the next Owner but I've never had an issue with it
plowboy wrote:
What a dick...Laughing
Buy new!
Gilletty
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Gilletty 10/4/2013 5:05am
10/4/2013 5:05am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2013 5:06am
Gilletty wrote:
I have never used the clutch for upshifting or backed off the throttle. Never had a gearbox problem in the last 30yrs of riding/racing.
GarySemics wrote:
Let me get this straight. So what you're saying is that every time you upshifted for the last 30 years you never used the clutch or...
Let me get this straight. So what you're saying is that every time you upshifted for the last 30 years you never used the clutch or backed off the throttle????????????????????????? WHAT??????? How is anyone suppose to take this other than a joke???

Maybe in the last 30 years you only rode once and upshifted once.
Okay, maybe the wording is not correct, What I am saying is when racing I don't use the clutch to change up gears and I don't chop the throttle. I just keep it on and click the gears. Just always done it that way without any problems. No need to get an attitude about it.
ga_pike
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ga_pike 10/4/2013 5:26am
10/4/2013 5:26am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2013 5:26am
Gilletty wrote:
I have never used the clutch for upshifting or backed off the throttle. Never had a gearbox problem in the last 30yrs of riding/racing.
GarySemics wrote:
Let me get this straight. So what you're saying is that every time you upshifted for the last 30 years you never used the clutch or...
Let me get this straight. So what you're saying is that every time you upshifted for the last 30 years you never used the clutch or backed off the throttle????????????????????????? WHAT??????? How is anyone suppose to take this other than a joke???

Maybe in the last 30 years you only rode once and upshifted once.
Gary -

Not to argue with you because I have a lot of respect for you, but I was taught not to use the clutch when shifting. As a disclaimer, I no longer ride and haven't been on one of the modern 4 strokes, but in the 80's and 90's I raced 60's all the way to 250A class and was taught from the time I got on 60cc bikes just to shift away. I used the clutch to maintain revs through corners or to get them up when it would bog down.

Personally, I never had a transmission problem. And for the record, I was taught not to use the clutch by Tony Distefano when I attended my first Tony D MX school. This method was reinforced by Gary Bailey both times I attended a week long camp at his school and in a couple of his VHS tapes from back in the day. I believe it was mentioned in Broc Glover's old VHS video, Riding Motocross "Glover Style".

Honestly, it never was a problem. Not that it may not be different with the modern bikes.
Lefty Right
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Lefty Right 10/29/2013 5:02pm
10/29/2013 5:02pm
Whistling
Lefty Right
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Lefty Right 10/29/2013 5:34pm
10/29/2013 5:34pm
...
jim598
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jim598 10/29/2013 5:40pm
10/29/2013 5:40pm
I have been racing since the early 70s and have never used the clutch for up shifting,just blip the throttle,,, I have never had a transmission problem.... to take it one step further. in 1985 I started riding cr 500s and found that if you were on a rough straight away (say maybe early in the power in third gear) as soon my rear wheel hit a hard bump and began free spinning in the air I click it up a gear without the clutch or letting off (while the wheel is in the air) its amazing how hard that makes your bike accelerate once the wheel gets on the ground again. still do that on 450s today....never transmission problems
48dirtbikekid
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48dirtbikekid 10/29/2013 6:02pm
10/29/2013 6:02pm
My clutch lever snapped off last winter, so I just warm my shit up and when I'm ready to get to motoring I just adjust myself so I'm virtually sitting on the gas cap and rev it up a lil make sure I'm ready and pop it in 1st and take off. So that. Just shows you that you don't really need a clutch.
friday10
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friday10 10/29/2013 6:09pm
10/29/2013 6:09pm
Gilletty wrote:
I have never used the clutch for upshifting or backed off the throttle. Never had a gearbox problem in the last 30yrs of riding/racing.
GarySemics wrote:
Let me get this straight. So what you're saying is that every time you upshifted for the last 30 years you never used the clutch or...
Let me get this straight. So what you're saying is that every time you upshifted for the last 30 years you never used the clutch or backed off the throttle????????????????????????? WHAT??????? How is anyone suppose to take this other than a joke???

Maybe in the last 30 years you only rode once and upshifted once.
There's some good comedy content in this thread Gary!!
musmanni
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musmanni 10/29/2013 6:29pm
10/29/2013 6:29pm
I always use the clutch and keep the throttle wide open. I'd rather keep the rpms up and use the clutch for a split second than chop the throttle.

I ride only 2-strokes, usually 125cc, so rpms are important.
Tim507
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Tim507 10/29/2013 6:58pm
10/29/2013 6:58pm
I was out on my dirt cycle last weekend and this very topic popped into my cognitive processor......so I considered the obvious and paid attention even though it has been proven I am bit ADDDDDDD and I have self-medicated rather than be prescribed medication. It has been lots of fun!!!

After much review and consideration it became obvious to me that I do not use the clutch when upshifting (OK occasionally) and about 50% of the time I use the clutch to shift down.

Now i am 61 have been putting something exciting between my legs since I was 9 or so - no no no! Motorcycles my friends motorcycles......so I am fairly certain my meds have not skewed the results.

Certainly not scientific but reasonable accurate Hey anyone seen my meds??????
friday10
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friday10 10/29/2013 7:13pm
10/29/2013 7:13pm
I'm just curious as to why someone would use the clutch to down shift and not to up shift? Weird things happen when braking and pulling in the clutch, just sayin' !
LappedU
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LappedU 10/29/2013 7:21pm
10/29/2013 7:21pm
I never had a problem with the tranny shifting without the clutch!
yzjs7
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yzjs7 10/29/2013 9:30pm
10/29/2013 9:30pm
I learned to drive a five speed manual car before I rode a dirt bike. With that my understanding is to always use the clutch when shifting. I've learned from Gary that I can getaway without using the clutch when down shifting but I still do when not in a rush.
JM485
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JM485 10/29/2013 9:36pm
10/29/2013 9:36pm
friday10 wrote:
I'm just curious as to why someone would use the clutch to down shift and not to up shift? Weird things happen when braking and pulling...
I'm just curious as to why someone would use the clutch to down shift and not to up shift? Weird things happen when braking and pulling in the clutch, just sayin' !
How exactly are you supposed to lock up the rear wheel and not stall the engine without the clutch pulled in?

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fanger
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fanger 10/29/2013 9:50pm
10/29/2013 9:50pm
i used to change with the clutch when i first started, but as i got faster i worked out it was more efficient to just hold it flat and shift up, but its all about how much throttle you use to where you are the the rev range, for example if im half way through a gear, i would only shift up if the throtle was half way on. but if im at the high rpm range, i would shift with the throttle on full, if you can understand how your engine and gearbox work together, it can be much more efficient in my opinion.....

but saying that, i hold the clutch in when i down shift and slow down for a corner, because i hate getting slowed down too much by the engine brakes.
friday10
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friday10 10/29/2013 9:55pm
10/29/2013 9:55pm
friday10 wrote:
I'm just curious as to why someone would use the clutch to down shift and not to up shift? Weird things happen when braking and pulling...
I'm just curious as to why someone would use the clutch to down shift and not to up shift? Weird things happen when braking and pulling in the clutch, just sayin' !
JM485 wrote:
How exactly are you supposed to lock up the rear wheel and not stall the engine without the clutch pulled in?
If you lock up the brakes in every corner you're doing it wrong! We're talking about shifting, not brake sliding.
Hal_396
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Hal_396 7/1/2014 1:22pm
7/1/2014 1:22pm Edited Date/Time 7/1/2014 1:22pm
Two revive an old thread, I tore up a tranny on a 87 YZ490 by not using the clutch. Best thing that ever happened to that bike. I use the clutch 95% of the time now. Maybe that's why I'm so slow.
mac3-d
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mac3-d 7/1/2014 2:21pm
7/1/2014 2:21pm
When I raced 74-06 I Always chopped the throttle to upshift. Only when I needed to clear certain big jumps would I keep it pinned & up shift on the face of a jump giving an extra forward push enabling me clearing the jump instead of casing it. Mostly 125's & 250 F's
thesadguy
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thesadguy 7/1/2014 2:21pm
7/1/2014 2:21pm
I just dont understand why it is even a discussion about using the clutch, That is one of the first things I was taught when learning how to ride a 65 was to use the clutch ALWAYS.
Ghost of Jabroni 7/1/2014 3:44pm
7/1/2014 3:44pm
JW381 wrote:
Do most of you keep it pegged WFO and grab a gear or let off a little? I rarely use the clutch to upshift, except for...
Do most of you keep it pegged WFO and grab a gear or let off a little? I rarely use the clutch to upshift, except for the occasional speed shift, but I at least chop the throttle just a little to avoid jamming the shifter up with the throttle twisted to the stop. Most of the time... I guess every now and then I need to grab a gear quick and I keep the throttle on, but as a rule - no clutch, chop the throttle a little.
I let off briefly. Just float shift it. Never had an issue ever. I dont "power shift" either.

The clutch is for the start. Just my opinion.

But I always used the clutch to downshift. Seems some here think its even less necessary.

Hey OP, thx for the thread. This is a topic I've always wondered about.
Spartacus
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Spartacus 7/1/2014 4:34pm
7/1/2014 4:34pm
I was practicing today and never used the klutch.

WhipMeister
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WhipMeister 7/1/2014 5:15pm
7/1/2014 5:15pm
Never have used the clutch much when shifting except on starts. I did have 2nd gear fork/dog probs on the early Elsinore 125s. No issues since. My YZ250 demanded that I change the gear oil every weekend or it would start missing gears. Oil change remedied it every time. Just my 2c.
Anthony Siracuse 7/1/2014 5:20pm
7/1/2014 5:20pm
Reading this thread. I didn't know people shifted without their clutches.
DTHA70
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DTHA70 7/2/2014 11:41am
7/2/2014 11:41am
ive never used the clutch when upshifting, wide open, clutchless upshifts have always treated me right, two strokes can put up a fight becuase they dont have a bouncing rev limiter like a four stroke, when clutchless upshifting wide open(not letting off at all), on a four stroke, the instantaneous freewheeling that happens when it bounces off the rev limiter is enough to unweight the gears and allow it to slip in without issue. i also cryo treat and ISF every shaft and gear in my engines, so that might have something to do with why they dont break. when milliseconds can make the differwence between a holeshot and 10th place start, why give anything up by letting off or killing drive with the clutch?

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