Mx riders versus other athletes

3/12/2013 2:45pm
wow123 wrote:
The famous On Any Sunday quote which I always disputed MX was found to be second only to soccer in physical demands. I had this debate...
The famous On Any Sunday quote which I always disputed

MX was found to be second only to soccer in physical demands.

I had this debate with guy i was training with, he a road cyclist and he would not concede that there was any tougher athlete than a road cyclist.

Guess every guy really into a sport thinks his it the most demanding
My roommate works at a huge road bike shop in Dallas and we've had this discussion numerous times. He disagrees with everything to do with lungs and legs (saying road cycling is more demanding) but says once you throw in the upper body element of moto it does kind of tip the scales. Seeing all of the road guys come through the shop the first thing he can point to is their lack of upper body strength.
markit
Posts
2641
Joined
1/10/2013
Location
Bogalusa, LA US
3/12/2013 2:54pm
I've done a few track days YZF400/ZX10R and can tell ya if you haven done it you have no clue. Especally the tight tracks lie Jennings and No Problem havnt ridden NOLA yet but the cart track is fun a hell.lol
Fearo
Posts
1383
Joined
12/17/2009
Location
BE
3/13/2013 2:09am
Christ, some of you people...

Show me one person on earth that isn't in GREAT shape, that could ride a 35 minute moto HARD on this type of track:



I suggest you don't even bother.
3/13/2013 3:39am
dak446 wrote:
I agree with most of that, except the 'intelligence of an Einstein'. Most guys who ride can't form a complete sentence or thought, let alone do...
I agree with most of that, except the 'intelligence of an Einstein'. Most guys who ride can't form a complete sentence or thought, let alone do well in school.

Of course, there are exceptions, but that one doesn't quite fit the average moto guy.
That's knowledge not intelligence. Allot of top MX athletes never got to work on their knowledge due to the sport.
Allot of sports have guidance to combine it with school, so in case their sports career does not lift off they have something as backup. All top MX riders know is MX.

MX riders are schooled into racing, no wonder they don't carry a masters degree in literature.

The Shop

3/13/2013 3:48am Edited Date/Time 3/13/2013 3:56am
Fearo wrote:
Christ, some of you people... Show me one person on earth that isn't in GREAT shape, that could ride a 35 minute moto HARD on this...
Christ, some of you people...

Show me one person on earth that isn't in GREAT shape, that could ride a 35 minute moto HARD on this type of track:



I suggest you don't even bother.
Most of them never ridden a beat up (sand) track, that's quite clear.

Not getting tired is one thing, staying focussed to get trough all the bumps and holes without crashing is another.
1 mistake leads to more fatigue and more fatigue leads to lack of concentration so more mistakes are made....see where this is going?
jamma10
Posts
10573
Joined
8/24/2008
Location
Bristol GB
3/13/2013 4:33am
Most of them never ridden a beat up (sand) track, that's quite clear. Not getting tired is one thing, staying focussed to get trough all the...
Most of them never ridden a beat up (sand) track, that's quite clear.

Not getting tired is one thing, staying focussed to get trough all the bumps and holes without crashing is another.
1 mistake leads to more fatigue and more fatigue leads to lack of concentration so more mistakes are made....see where this is going?
I sometimes find the concentration the most tiring aspect, especially on a 3 hour H&H race or something that takes a great deal of focus. Not only am I physically shattered afterwards, but Im often mentally exhausted too.
BDOG
Posts
1327
Joined
1/10/2008
Location
Danville, VA US
3/13/2013 5:23am
umagumadog wrote:
This is what Jeff Spencer one of lance Armstrongs trainers has to say about it in an interview; Everyone always says (at least the MX guys...
This is what Jeff Spencer one of lance Armstrongs trainers has to say about it in an interview;

Everyone always says (at least the MX guys do) that the MX athlete is the best conditioned athlete in the world. Since you also train Lance Armstrong and are around other world class athletes, where do you think MX ranks?

MX is by far the most complex sport. You have to have the flexibility of a gymnast, strength of a power lifter, endurance of a Tour De France cyclist, mindset of a bull rider, composure of a world poker champion and intelligence of an Einstein. You have to have it all. In other sports you don’t have to have all those ingredients so proportioned. You can always get away with something. If you race cars you can have a better car and be a lesser driver. If you are on a bicycle you can have lesser bike and a bigger set of lungs and legs. But in MX you can’t hide from anything and have to be great at everything. It’s hard to compare the individual things in each sport against each other. Take Lance for instance. He has a bigger VO2 than any of the top MX guys, but what does that have to do MX? Not a lot, because a great VO2 by itself won’t win races because racing readiness is about the entire mental and physical package. It’s not possible to compare one thing in one sport against 5 or 6 things in MX and accurately define a rider’s readiness to race. In fact those comparisons can hurt a rider’s confidence if they believe they’re deficient even though the comparison is inaccurate.
Agreed on every part except the Einstein comment.... that's funny!!
themrtoad
Posts
1244
Joined
5/29/2009
Location
SE
3/13/2013 5:31am
Talent and technique and a good setup will in most of the cases win over great lungs as far as mx goes. MX is as hard as you make it upon yourself. For CP377 or JMB not that hard, for Pit Beirer really hard.

In many other tough sports you don't wear so much protective gear, and you have less impacts from jumps and bumps which makes it easier to find a good rhytm with breathing.

MX is special for sure, but I don't think mx-riders are fitter than other athletes on pro-level.
151
Posts
536
Joined
9/15/2009
Location
Olive Branch, MS US
3/13/2013 5:36am
Lucifa. wrote:
ha ha ha whatever. I find a 35 minute MX race piss easy compared to 35 minutes of climbing a cat 1 climb on a road...
ha ha ha whatever. I find a 35 minute MX race piss easy compared to 35 minutes of climbing a cat 1 climb on a road bike. Hell, even a 60 mile road race on level roads has me gagging for oxygen.

I'd put rugby, triathlons, track cycling, basket ball and a host of other sports above MX in terms of fitness.

Please don't kid yourselves just because you are a MX fan.
MX558 wrote:
I agree, plenty of sports that are tougher. Hell if your one of the lucky ones that don't get arm pump you can ride forever. I've...
I agree, plenty of sports that are tougher. Hell if your one of the lucky ones that don't get arm pump you can ride forever. I've seen guys who are in terrible shape ride hard for 30 + all the time.
I think what you two are missing is how fast those guys could ride if they put forth the physical effort that some others do.

There are some cyclist that finish mid pack and never break a sweat. There are tennis players that play tournaments and never break a sweat.

Just as there are MX guys that lap me and never break a sweat.

The more true statement is that there are people in terrible shape who ride FAST for 30+ all the time (doubtful) but I can assure you there in no one who rides HARD for 30+ all the time while being in terrible shape. It is a physical impossibility. Of course that does depend on your definition of riding hard...

But we have to compare apples to apples. Maybe each racer or players PE (percieved exertion) could be taken into account?

The only other way I can think would be to only study racers and players at the very top of each sport.
BDOG
Posts
1327
Joined
1/10/2008
Location
Danville, VA US
3/13/2013 5:48am Edited Date/Time 3/13/2013 5:49am
MMA fighters are the most well conditioned, toughest athlete's IMO. You get punched in the face for 15 minutes and then tell me what is tougher.
qtrracer
Posts
148
Joined
12/21/2010
Location
Simi Valley, CA US
3/13/2013 8:11am
BDOG wrote:
MMA fighters are the most well conditioned, toughest athlete's IMO. You get punched in the face for 15 minutes and then tell me what is tougher.
Bull riding
jamma10
Posts
10573
Joined
8/24/2008
Location
Bristol GB
3/13/2013 8:19am Edited Date/Time 3/13/2013 8:29am
BDOG wrote:
MMA fighters are the most well conditioned, toughest athlete's IMO. You get punched in the face for 15 minutes and then tell me what is tougher.
Rugby players do that while running up and down a field for 80 minutes.
BDOG
Posts
1327
Joined
1/10/2008
Location
Danville, VA US
3/13/2013 8:30am
Im saying from a combination of conditioning/toughness. MMA is way more physically taxing than boxing... Anyone who has ever been in a tough street fight will tell you the same thing.
yz414
Posts
1031
Joined
5/30/2012
Location
CA
3/13/2013 8:45am
dak446 wrote:
I agree with most of that, except the 'intelligence of an Einstein'. Most guys who ride can't form a complete sentence or thought, let alone do...
I agree with most of that, except the 'intelligence of an Einstein'. Most guys who ride can't form a complete sentence or thought, let alone do well in school.

Of course, there are exceptions, but that one doesn't quite fit the average moto guy.
Id say they have to have the intelligence of a chess player. Trying to be one step ahead of your opponents next move and setting him up for a pass is one of the bets parts of racing, all while doing 40 MPH 30 Ft in the air makes it the coolest sport in the world.
jtomasik
Posts
12895
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Golden, CO US
3/13/2013 9:04am
Lucifa. wrote:
ha ha ha whatever. I find a 35 minute MX race piss easy compared to 35 minutes of climbing a cat 1 climb on a road...
ha ha ha whatever. I find a 35 minute MX race piss easy compared to 35 minutes of climbing a cat 1 climb on a road bike. Hell, even a 60 mile road race on level roads has me gagging for oxygen.

I'd put rugby, triathlons, track cycling, basket ball and a host of other sports above MX in terms of fitness.

Please don't kid yourselves just because you are a MX fan.
MX558 wrote:
I agree, plenty of sports that are tougher. Hell if your one of the lucky ones that don't get arm pump you can ride forever. I've...
I agree, plenty of sports that are tougher. Hell if your one of the lucky ones that don't get arm pump you can ride forever. I've seen guys who are in terrible shape ride hard for 30 + all the time.
Tougher at what level? Riding around like you guys do, or trying to match the pace of the guys who take the sport seriously to commit their lives to getting championships?

Personal data points don't mean shit when comparing ultimate performance between sports, unless you're in the top 3 consistently at those sports. Either of you two in that situation?
3/13/2013 9:07am
umagumadog wrote:
This is what Jeff Spencer one of lance Armstrongs trainers has to say about it in an interview; Everyone always says (at least the MX guys...
This is what Jeff Spencer one of lance Armstrongs trainers has to say about it in an interview;

Everyone always says (at least the MX guys do) that the MX athlete is the best conditioned athlete in the world. Since you also train Lance Armstrong and are around other world class athletes, where do you think MX ranks?

MX is by far the most complex sport. You have to have the flexibility of a gymnast, strength of a power lifter, endurance of a Tour De France cyclist, mindset of a bull rider, composure of a world poker champion and intelligence of an Einstein. You have to have it all. In other sports you don’t have to have all those ingredients so proportioned. You can always get away with something. If you race cars you can have a better car and be a lesser driver. If you are on a bicycle you can have lesser bike and a bigger set of lungs and legs. But in MX you can’t hide from anything and have to be great at everything. It’s hard to compare the individual things in each sport against each other. Take Lance for instance. He has a bigger VO2 than any of the top MX guys, but what does that have to do MX? Not a lot, because a great VO2 by itself won’t win races because racing readiness is about the entire mental and physical package. It’s not possible to compare one thing in one sport against 5 or 6 things in MX and accurately define a rider’s readiness to race. In fact those comparisons can hurt a rider’s confidence if they believe they’re deficient even though the comparison is inaccurate.
Ding ding ding.

Exactly.


I do all of the sports in question here: cycling, soccer, moto. I know that I can pretty much get off the couch and go play a full 90 minute soccer game or ride 20 miles of trails at a competitive level. But if I want to go race and I haven't been training hard, I don't last more than 5 laps.

Moto isn't just more physically demanding, it's also more mentally demanding than most sports. In soccer and especially in road cycling, you can take mental breaks. Heck in road cycling, you want to try to think about something else, which allows you to relax all muscles not being utilized and conserve energy.

In moto, you have to be focused enough to alternatingly relax muscles not being utilized while focusing on the track, competitors, and yourself. We all know what happens when you loose concentration in moto. That makes your muscles work much harder, and it's why very fit people get so tired the first couple times they ride.
sumdood
Posts
8845
Joined
3/11/2013
Location
San Clemente, CA US
Fantasy
3/13/2013 9:13am
wow123 wrote:
The famous On Any Sunday quote which I always disputed MX was found to be second only to soccer in physical demands. I had this debate...
The famous On Any Sunday quote which I always disputed

MX was found to be second only to soccer in physical demands.

I had this debate with guy i was training with, he a road cyclist and he would not concede that there was any tougher athlete than a road cyclist.

Guess every guy really into a sport thinks his it the most demanding
Reseach that study, the only thing I could find was done after On Any Sunday came out, I think Bruce Brown pulled that out of his ass....
early
Posts
9872
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
3/13/2013 9:23am
BDOG wrote:
MMA fighters are the most well conditioned, toughest athlete's IMO. You get punched in the face for 15 minutes and then tell me what is tougher.
And they need to have the intelligence of Einstein Cool
BDOG
Posts
1327
Joined
1/10/2008
Location
Danville, VA US
3/13/2013 10:06am
BDOG wrote:
MMA fighters are the most well conditioned, toughest athlete's IMO. You get punched in the face for 15 minutes and then tell me what is tougher.
early wrote:
And they need to have the intelligence of Einstein Cool
HA!
Wildside1
Posts
16
Joined
3/13/2013
Location
El Cajon, CA US
3/13/2013 10:08am
When people ask me if Motocross is a hard sport or a physically demanding sport my 2 min description is:

Imagine running as fast as you can for 20-35 min with a extra 25 lbs on your body, then put a 40 210 lb machines bouncing around you and into you, rocks and dirt flying into your face @ 15-45 mph, riding over jumps that throw you 10 plus feet off the ground and sometimes as far as 100', the entire time you can get severally hurt or killed with one mistake! That's a Motocross race!

I think with the physical demands from cardiovascular endurance fitness tests, body impact study's and reflex to brain processing, MOTOCROSS is the #1 most demanding sport in the world with all combined!
3/13/2013 10:31am Edited Date/Time 3/13/2013 10:33am
Lucifa. wrote:
ha ha ha whatever. I find a 35 minute MX race piss easy compared to 35 minutes of climbing a cat 1 climb on a road...
ha ha ha whatever. I find a 35 minute MX race piss easy compared to 35 minutes of climbing a cat 1 climb on a road bike. Hell, even a 60 mile road race on level roads has me gagging for oxygen.

I'd put rugby, triathlons, track cycling, basket ball and a host of other sports above MX in terms of fitness.

Please don't kid yourselves just because you are a MX fan.
We aren't talking about "barely average, out of shape, beer drinking" vet class or amateur "fun" racers....we are talking at the PRO LEVEL.

It takes about 10,000x as much fitness to ride at top 3 pro speed in MX for 40 minutes as it does for some yahoo running 30 second slower lap times.

Basket ball? Seriously? Try again...skills, yes, but not real aerobic conditioning. Ask Shaq.

Rugby, sure, it's TOUGH, men trying to smash each other to the ground, but it does not require 30+ minutes of NON-STOP high heart rate conditioning, etc., there are big pauses between plays.

IRONMAN triathlons, very hard, very mental, and very physical. My brother is a multi-ironman, and I guarantee, to do well, takes a shitload of training and heart. I myself have ran several marathons and half-marathons, and I can tell you, that 30 minutes full tilt on an MX bike is harder than 30 minutes of fast running. I used to run for an hour 4x a week, just to equate into a 25-30 minute practice moto, to prepare me for raceday of 4 motos @20 minutes each.

And if you think you are in that great of shape, that 60 miles on the road bike has you gagging...you need to slow down a bit and get into better shape. Your context shows you really have no idea.

edit: yeah that's me on the right in my avatar pic. I am a nobody, but I bet I can out run, out work, and outpace 90% of all the racers at the local tracks in overall fitness (not in MX, I quit years ago).
3/13/2013 10:35am
BDOG wrote:
Im saying from a combination of conditioning/toughness. MMA is way more physically taxing than boxing... Anyone who has ever been in a tough street fight will...
Im saying from a combination of conditioning/toughness. MMA is way more physically taxing than boxing... Anyone who has ever been in a tough street fight will tell you the same thing.
Tough! Certainly! Well conditioned??? Are you joking? Those guys are WHUPPED after a 3-5 round match.
Flatliner
Posts
4191
Joined
11/3/2009
Location
CA
3/13/2013 10:48am
BDOG wrote:
Im saying from a combination of conditioning/toughness. MMA is way more physically taxing than boxing... Anyone who has ever been in a tough street fight will...
Im saying from a combination of conditioning/toughness. MMA is way more physically taxing than boxing... Anyone who has ever been in a tough street fight will tell you the same thing.
thephoenix wrote:
Tough! Certainly! Well conditioned??? Are you joking? Those guys are WHUPPED after a 3-5 round match.
Gsp, Sean sherk, and a whole host of other fighters would disagree with you. I've personally never been more tired after mma style training. That includes riding Moto, and being a hs football receiver.
BDOG
Posts
1327
Joined
1/10/2008
Location
Danville, VA US
3/13/2013 10:55am Edited Date/Time 3/13/2013 11:02am
BDOG wrote:
Im saying from a combination of conditioning/toughness. MMA is way more physically taxing than boxing... Anyone who has ever been in a tough street fight will...
Im saying from a combination of conditioning/toughness. MMA is way more physically taxing than boxing... Anyone who has ever been in a tough street fight will tell you the same thing.
thephoenix wrote:
Tough! Certainly! Well conditioned??? Are you joking? Those guys are WHUPPED after a 3-5 round match.
Seriously? sorry but that is an ignorant response. if you ever have wrestled at the high school level or been in a drag out fight you realize how taxing it is. have you ever wrestled or got in a damn good fist fight?

While we at it I will include the athletes competing in the crossfit games. Usually, the shirt off gives you a good idea of someone's overall fitness... ripped=elite fitness. runners and the like may have the heart and lungs but they look weak and fragile. of course this is all in my uneducated opinion.(unless you count 25 years of being avid in to fitness)
qtrracer
Posts
148
Joined
12/21/2010
Location
Simi Valley, CA US
3/13/2013 10:55am
This has the earmarks of a "My dad can beat up your dad" argument. At the TOP levels many sports are as taxing as mx but they all have different challenges. Relax girls, you are all pretty.
Titan1
Posts
9416
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
3/13/2013 11:06am
I think the top "best of the best" athletes in any sport are going to be incredibly fit! I won't be so arrogant as to put motocross riders ahead of any other athletes.

I will say this, I have a buddy that is a marathon runner, triathlon, ironman, and expert level cross country and downhill mountain bike racer....he was always giving me crap about how easy riding is, the bike does all the work...because I'd complain that I was beat after a 90 mile H&H and he would ride 100 miles on his road bike every weekend. blah blah blah...

So I took him TRAIL riding (not racing, just trail riding) on some single track one Saturday (we did maybe 35 miles)....and he struggled, big time! The next day he called and told me it was the hardest thing he's ever done! And had sore muscles that he didn't even know he had!

Now, I won't be so arrogant as to think that because he does triathlons, and struggled on a 35 mile trail ride (which was easy for me) that I could sign up for a triathlon and even finish it. Ultimately his lack of technique made that trail ride much more difficult on him than it really was. And therein lies the problem with athletes from other sports trying motocross...its not that its so much harder than the sports they excel at, its that their lack of technique makes it APPEAR that much harder than other sports.

But, at east my buddy stopped giving me crap!
TDeath21
Posts
6515
Joined
2/22/2011
Location
Somewhere, MO US
3/13/2013 11:08am
Of the sports I've played, motocross, tennis, and basketball are definitely the toughest as far as having to have a variety of skill sets. I've never played hockey or rugby, but I assume those two would be right up there.
3/13/2013 11:09am
I dont understand why people compare football and mx. In high school wrestling was by far the hardest sport i did for 6 years. Everyday all of us would dread getting out of school to go to practice to badically kill yourself. Add cutting weight on top of that if you wanna be competitve at the leanest you can get your body to go. It was more physically demanding and mentally demanding than mx for sure.

I realize in mx though you go do 2 motos per class for 5 laps a peice in 90 degree heat sometimes at the local level or a hour 45 minute harescramble. But wrestling the heat was cranked and humid as hell with everyone sweating. Pure hell. Dont get me wrong though mx is my love and its much funner than other sports but its not the hardest most physically demanding thing ive done.
APLMAN99
Posts
12474
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR US
Fantasy
3/13/2013 11:19am
Lucifa. wrote:
ha ha ha whatever. I find a 35 minute MX race piss easy compared to 35 minutes of climbing a cat 1 climb on a road...
ha ha ha whatever. I find a 35 minute MX race piss easy compared to 35 minutes of climbing a cat 1 climb on a road bike. Hell, even a 60 mile road race on level roads has me gagging for oxygen.

I'd put rugby, triathlons, track cycling, basket ball and a host of other sports above MX in terms of fitness.

Please don't kid yourselves just because you are a MX fan.
thephoenix wrote:
We aren't talking about "barely average, out of shape, beer drinking" vet class or amateur "fun" racers....we are talking at the PRO LEVEL. It takes about...
We aren't talking about "barely average, out of shape, beer drinking" vet class or amateur "fun" racers....we are talking at the PRO LEVEL.

It takes about 10,000x as much fitness to ride at top 3 pro speed in MX for 40 minutes as it does for some yahoo running 30 second slower lap times.

Basket ball? Seriously? Try again...skills, yes, but not real aerobic conditioning. Ask Shaq.

Rugby, sure, it's TOUGH, men trying to smash each other to the ground, but it does not require 30+ minutes of NON-STOP high heart rate conditioning, etc., there are big pauses between plays.

IRONMAN triathlons, very hard, very mental, and very physical. My brother is a multi-ironman, and I guarantee, to do well, takes a shitload of training and heart. I myself have ran several marathons and half-marathons, and I can tell you, that 30 minutes full tilt on an MX bike is harder than 30 minutes of fast running. I used to run for an hour 4x a week, just to equate into a 25-30 minute practice moto, to prepare me for raceday of 4 motos @20 minutes each.

And if you think you are in that great of shape, that 60 miles on the road bike has you gagging...you need to slow down a bit and get into better shape. Your context shows you really have no idea.

edit: yeah that's me on the right in my avatar pic. I am a nobody, but I bet I can out run, out work, and outpace 90% of all the racers at the local tracks in overall fitness (not in MX, I quit years ago).
Shaq is actually a very unique example. When you consider the energy required to haul the bulk that he has up and down the court, he was probably in fantastic (comparable) condition in his prime. The act of pumping blood through the body of a 7'1" individual is vastly greater than for the average sized man. He definitely declined in productivity as his conditioning became harder and harder to maintain. It's pretty unrealistic to believe a guy Shaq's size will be able to stay fit for as long as the average sized athlete, and unfortunately we mostly remember him at the end of his career rather than in his prime. However, using Shaq as the benchmark for basketball is probably akin to using Marty Tipes as the rep for MX. In fact, both are/were probably freakish athletes who were conditioned much better than public perception showed.

I agree with the sentiment that these comparisons are mostly pointless. It seems that folks want to identify and group themselves in with the elite athletes of their favorite sport. That's just silly.

Lately I've been around a fair number of young hockey players, at the NAHL level. This is just above the "pay to play" level I think, and the kids are playing to try to get college scholarships. I'm amazed at the level of conditioning these kids have. I had always been told that hockey was grueling by my friends who skated, but those 2-3 minute shift changes always made me think they might be exaggerating. I'm a believer now. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the average kid on our local team would beat the average top-10 A & B rider at Loretta's in most any standard test of fitness, and these kids are still full-time high school students.

Personally I think just about any of the sports talked about will get a person plenty fit if participated in with enough commitment.
TDeath21
Posts
6515
Joined
2/22/2011
Location
Somewhere, MO US
3/13/2013 11:30am
You can't compare sports. It's that simple. At the professional level in any sport, the athletes are going to train themselves the best way possible to be the best at that sport. The way they train themselves for that sport won't translate to another sport. Had they trained themselves for a different sport, they could have been just as successful. That's why it's impossible to compare.

Post a reply to: Mx riders versus other athletes

The Latest