Missing history of a long lost National.

DonM
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DonM 12/26/2012 11:44am
12/26/2012 11:44am
DC wrote:
I also have a bunch of photos that appear to be more wooded, but I am guessing they are actually from Midland, Michigan, which was also...
I also have a bunch of photos that appear to be more wooded, but I am guessing they are actually from Midland, Michigan, which was also quite sandy. I will ask Scott Wallenberg to have a look -- he raced the nationals at both and is an encyclopedia of motocroknowledge too....

DC
MX Sports
Midland was a lot more wooded, it was mostly a darker sand very similar to Diamondback (I've got a pretty cool pic of me and David Bailey on his blue Bultaco from there) but Midland was nowhere near as rough as Diamondback.
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Highsider
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Highsider 12/26/2012 12:53pm
12/26/2012 12:53pm Edited Date/Time 12/26/2012 4:48pm
Thanks DC, for taking the trouble to post this cool historical stuff, here.

The top edge of the track is all I remember riding during their annual February hare scrambles and that
was 18-20 years ago.

Edit: ...and that is because I also agree there was more trees.
DC
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DC 12/26/2012 1:06pm
12/26/2012 1:06pm
Wow, Wallenberg says he remembers it with more woods too.... The mystery continues. All I have is that souvenir program -- I have never been there -- and that's the photo on the welcome page. But I will ask some other folks like Glover and LaPorte when I see them next week.

DC
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TG130
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TG130 12/26/2012 2:18pm
12/26/2012 2:18pm
I came up with these - all from Keithsburg.











The Shop

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backinthesaddleagain 12/26/2012 8:50pm
12/26/2012 8:50pm Edited Date/Time 12/26/2012 8:54pm
In 1978 Rhode Island held its one and only Mr. Pibb AMA national. Rained everywhere in RI that day except at the track. We had a blast watching but the attendance was poor. It was done at a small ski area. Rode my street bike by there last week and could smell the castor oil in my head! Can hardly tell it was a ski hill never mind an mx track.

Anyway wondering if DC has any memorabilia from that race? Did see a video of the race on youtube. Thanks.
wardy
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wardy 12/26/2012 9:03pm
12/26/2012 9:03pm
we race there every spring there are like three hs races there. hell spring normally it is 28 degrees and snowing. but the course is purrrrrrfect. LOL well it's rideable in February.

I think some of the tires on the fence posts are from that national! I know there is alot of old rusty equipment laying around that hasn't moved since 1977.

When I last raced moto there in 81, I swore i never would race a "sand" track ever again. 2010. My 15 year old convinced me it's time to race there, so we went. took a month to walk upright again.

but it was "fun" LOL.
1
Barnett117 12/26/2012 11:30pm
12/26/2012 11:30pm
DC wrote:
I also have a bunch of photos that appear to be more wooded, but I am guessing they are actually from Midland, Michigan, which was also...
I also have a bunch of photos that appear to be more wooded, but I am guessing they are actually from Midland, Michigan, which was also quite sandy. I will ask Scott Wallenberg to have a look -- he raced the nationals at both and is an encyclopedia of motocroknowledge too....

DC
MX Sports
Are you sure the track map is Sandy Oaks? It looks SO different now. A lot more trees now than in the picture. Anything else you can find would be awesome!
Barnett117 12/26/2012 11:35pm
12/26/2012 11:35pm
wardy wrote:
we race there every spring there are like three hs races there. hell spring normally it is 28 degrees and snowing. but the course is purrrrrrfect...
we race there every spring there are like three hs races there. hell spring normally it is 28 degrees and snowing. but the course is purrrrrrfect. LOL well it's rideable in February.

I think some of the tires on the fence posts are from that national! I know there is alot of old rusty equipment laying around that hasn't moved since 1977.

When I last raced moto there in 81, I swore i never would race a "sand" track ever again. 2010. My 15 year old convinced me it's time to race there, so we went. took a month to walk upright again.

but it was "fun" LOL.
Yeah I do the scramble there also. I know what tires you aretalking about. One is bright yellow and says some old motorcycle shop which probably hasnt moved since then. Where did they have the moto track in 81?
Barnett117 12/26/2012 11:39pm
12/26/2012 11:39pm
TG130 wrote:
I came up with these - all from Keithsburg. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2012/12/26/Barnett_486087.JPG[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2012/12/26/Wise_100429.JPG[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2012/12/26/125_Start_60630.JPG[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2012/12/26/Glover_374274.JPG[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2012/12/26/Ogden_182793.JPG[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2012/12/26/Laporte_945446.JPG[/img]
I came up with these - all from Keithsburg.











Wow these are awesome! Thanks! I just wish the pictures werent so close so I could match up where they are haha.
DC
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DC 12/27/2012 4:34am
12/27/2012 4:34am Edited Date/Time 12/27/2012 4:34am
I don't hav e anything on that Rhode Island race except for the results in The Vault:

http://vault.racerxonline.com/1978-08-06/125mx/pine-top-motorcycle-park

It was Warren Reid's one and only national win. I am friends with him on Facebook and will ask if he has anything.

There's the video too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbiHHdaoibA

And maybe ten years ago Eric Johnson did a really cool feature on that Sandy Oaks race and we tracked down those Gianatsis photos I mentioned, so I will see if we still have any of those. I will also see if we have a scan of that old issue of Racer X.

DC
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JPT
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JPT 12/27/2012 5:45am
12/27/2012 5:45am
I rode an enduro in that area. I remember Fire tower hill. It was a bitch,Hey Barrnett, I've got a bunch of cousins in
Aledo, Jones. You know any of them?
DC
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DC 12/27/2012 6:52am
12/27/2012 6:52am
Another addition to the thread, another eyewitness to the race -- John Ayers sent me this note this morning:

"I was reading on Vital about the MX National at Keithsburg, Illinois. I was there and actually won the 250 support class that day. Broc (Glover) won the 125 and I won the 250. Super rough and about 100 degrees that day and there were a lot of section thru the trees. The track was worn way low much like Washougal used to be, but huge sand whoops!"

Back in the day John Ayers was a very fast man on Maico, Husqvarna and then a Suzuki...

DC
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125
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125 12/27/2012 6:54am
12/27/2012 6:54am
Jimmy Weinert was the man. His wife recently passed, right before Christmas.
Ozzy
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Ozzy 12/27/2012 7:01am
12/27/2012 7:01am Edited Date/Time 12/27/2012 7:31am
I saw this post days ago.
Funny, I've been talking about this place for years.
Southwick is nothing compared to this place.
Maybe the old Southwick, but not the new of the last 10 years Southwick.
Nothing in the States that I recall holds a candle to this place.
It did rival Europe for sure.
Back in the day when I was at Yamaha, Jon R., Glover and Mike Bell & I tested our 500's there
before the start of that years 500 Nationals.
To say the place was GNARLY was being nice.
I remember walking the track with Mike & Broc & they were crapping their pants!!
Though I worked for Bell then, you could see early on that Broc was a bad azz on a 500!
True that.......
Smile
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lumpy790
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lumpy790 12/27/2012 8:09am
12/27/2012 8:09am
125 wrote:
Jimmy Weinert was the man. His wife recently passed, right before Christmas.
Hope this is a bad rumor ..... I am friends with him on FB and there is no mention of it.
125
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125 12/27/2012 8:13am
12/27/2012 8:13am Edited Date/Time 12/27/2012 8:14am
125 wrote:
Jimmy Weinert was the man. His wife recently passed, right before Christmas.
lumpy790 wrote:
Hope this is a bad rumor ..... I am friends with him on FB and there is no mention of it.
It's 100% true, and here it is. Dec 18th. I'm just pasting the text. It sucks. Those guys have a heck of a good place down there in Maysville NC.

Jimmy Weinert
December 18 via mobile
My wife lynda mom pased on to heaven Sunday morning. She had copd. She went peacefully though. Please talk to your loved ones. You never know when their going. Thanks to all for your support. And once again I'm so glad that I could be there for my wife and family. Thanks
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mx317
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mx317 12/27/2012 8:23am
12/27/2012 8:23am
Wife's mom?
1
SuperMario 12/27/2012 8:25am
12/27/2012 8:25am
DC wrote:
Barnett, here is what the track looked like in the overhead photo for the '77 program, which means the picture comes from a previous race of...
Barnett, here is what the track looked like in the overhead photo for the '77 program, which means the picture comes from a previous race of some importance....

DC
MX Sports
motoxer68 wrote:
Man, I swear that the "national track" where I raced in Keithsburg was very wooded, like the video Barnett posted. This overhead view doesn't look nearly...
Man, I swear that the "national track" where I raced in Keithsburg was very wooded, like the video Barnett posted. This overhead view doesn't look nearly as wooded. Maybe they had more than one track on the property? Or, maybe I'm getting old?
The track I was at in 1983 for a National Hare Scrambles was very wooded, and thats what made it so tough was there was no cooling breeze as you pounded from one whoop to the next. It had decent elevation change too, and thankfully they used very little of it that day in June

The trophies handed out where a piece of wood cut in the shape of the state, with the words

Sandy Oaks MC

"Worlds toughest track"

On the plaque.

This place in this photo looks like its a farmers cow pasture with next to zero trees near the course.

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ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 12/27/2012 8:33am
12/27/2012 8:33am Edited Date/Time 12/27/2012 8:33am
mx317 wrote:
Wife's mom?
Sounds like his wife's mother passed yes.
DC
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DC 12/27/2012 9:07am
12/27/2012 9:07am
As you can see by these pages from Eric Johnson's Racer X feature from August '02 the track definitely had more woods than the photos on the '77 Sandy Oaks National program's welcome page shows....

DC







4
Barnett117 12/27/2012 9:22am
12/27/2012 9:22am
JPT wrote:
I rode an enduro in that area. I remember Fire tower hill. It was a bitch,Hey Barrnett, I've got a bunch of cousins in Aledo, Jones...
I rode an enduro in that area. I remember Fire tower hill. It was a bitch,Hey Barrnett, I've got a bunch of cousins in
Aledo, Jones. You know any of them?
Yeah I work for a guy named Kevin Jones, I went to highschool with a Danielle Jones, her brother Colton Jones, Nick Jones, Janessa Jones. There is a guy who runs an auction house called Dale Jones. So maybe if you know any of them?
Barnett117 12/27/2012 9:24am
12/27/2012 9:24am
DC wrote:
Another addition to the thread, another eyewitness to the race -- John Ayers sent me this note this morning: "I was reading on Vital about the...
Another addition to the thread, another eyewitness to the race -- John Ayers sent me this note this morning:

"I was reading on Vital about the MX National at Keithsburg, Illinois. I was there and actually won the 250 support class that day. Broc (Glover) won the 125 and I won the 250. Super rough and about 100 degrees that day and there were a lot of section thru the trees. The track was worn way low much like Washougal used to be, but huge sand whoops!"

Back in the day John Ayers was a very fast man on Maico, Husqvarna and then a Suzuki...

DC
MX Sports
Wow thats awesome! Thanks again DC. You've been a huge help on this whole thing, lots of awesome info.
1
Barnett117 12/27/2012 9:27am
12/27/2012 9:27am
Ozzy wrote:
I saw this post days ago. Funny, I've been talking about this place for years. Southwick is nothing compared to this place. Maybe the old Southwick...
I saw this post days ago.
Funny, I've been talking about this place for years.
Southwick is nothing compared to this place.
Maybe the old Southwick, but not the new of the last 10 years Southwick.
Nothing in the States that I recall holds a candle to this place.
It did rival Europe for sure.
Back in the day when I was at Yamaha, Jon R., Glover and Mike Bell & I tested our 500's there
before the start of that years 500 Nationals.
To say the place was GNARLY was being nice.
I remember walking the track with Mike & Broc & they were crapping their pants!!
Though I worked for Bell then, you could see early on that Broc was a bad azz on a 500!
True that.......
Smile
Thats wild. I knew Hannah thought it was rough but it is so crazy to think our little 15 minute drive is actually a piece of moto history. And known by many as one of if not the roughest National.
1
backinthesaddleagain 12/27/2012 10:50am
12/27/2012 10:50am
DC wrote:
I don't hav e anything on that Rhode Island race except for the results in The Vault: http://vault.racerxonline.com/1978-08-06/125mx/pine-top-motorcycle-park It was Warren Reid's one and only national...
I don't hav e anything on that Rhode Island race except for the results in The Vault:

http://vault.racerxonline.com/1978-08-06/125mx/pine-top-motorcycle-park

It was Warren Reid's one and only national win. I am friends with him on Facebook and will ask if he has anything.

There's the video too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbiHHdaoibA

And maybe ten years ago Eric Johnson did a really cool feature on that Sandy Oaks race and we tracked down those Gianatsis photos I mentioned, so I will see if we still have any of those. I will also see if we have a scan of that old issue of Racer X.

DC
MX Sports
Thanks DC. At least the one time only RI MX track is now part of a state park being used by hikers, mountain bikers, and equestrians and not a shopping development, etc!
AJ
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AJ 12/27/2012 11:23am
12/27/2012 11:23am
DC wrote:
Another addition to the thread, another eyewitness to the race -- John Ayers sent me this note this morning: "I was reading on Vital about the...
Another addition to the thread, another eyewitness to the race -- John Ayers sent me this note this morning:

"I was reading on Vital about the MX National at Keithsburg, Illinois. I was there and actually won the 250 support class that day. Broc (Glover) won the 125 and I won the 250. Super rough and about 100 degrees that day and there were a lot of section thru the trees. The track was worn way low much like Washougal used to be, but huge sand whoops!"

Back in the day John Ayers was a very fast man on Maico, Husqvarna and then a Suzuki...

DC
MX Sports
It is still there, I've rode and raced there many times over the years,
there still are remnants on the fences.. and it is more wooded than the earlier photos.
(the vid posted earlier was cool)


They have had HS races there for as long as I can remember, and I'm old.
(but not as old as Wardy or Scott)

AJ
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AJ
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AJ 12/27/2012 11:25am
12/27/2012 11:25am
for what its worth it is a rough track,, but to me just typical of most any true sand track,
it's whopped out throughout the corners and straights lol Smile
pecu_83
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pecu_83 12/27/2012 12:11pm
12/27/2012 12:11pm
DC wrote:
As you can see by these pages from Eric Johnson's Racer X feature from August '02 the track definitely had more woods than the photos on...
As you can see by these pages from Eric Johnson's Racer X feature from August '02 the track definitely had more woods than the photos on the '77 Sandy Oaks National program's welcome page shows....

DC







Wow! That was a good read. We have a few good sand tracks here in Finland. I think the roughest I have raced on is Pori. It's right next to the beach so the sand is very loose. There is a part of the track that is more like gravel where you can get a breather, but most of its very soft and it gets whooped out. The back straight there is notorious.

It would be cool to see one or two sandtracks more on the National calendar just because it's different.
pecu_83
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pecu_83 12/27/2012 12:15pm
12/27/2012 12:15pm
Didn't mean to quote the photos again, sorry for flooding.
wardy
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wardy 12/27/2012 3:12pm
12/27/2012 3:12pm
I tell ya what there are hundreds of midwest riders who read this stuff. `Keithsburg HS is slated for 3-10-2013 put on by Ron WHipple and Stan Reddell, WFO Promotions. they get a great turn out and race this race no matter what. couple years ago 26 and flurrys. last year 65 and sunny. rain shine, it doesn't matter. They race it.

YOu will see some of the same fences and tires on those posts you see in that story. Heck now that i see that story i see some of the track we use today.

it's an open riding park. costs 5.00 or 10.00 a day. pretty laid back.


could one imagine an nationa there again? LOL teasing hell the road is pea gravel wouldn't hold up, but it sure brings back memories.
orangecrush
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orangecrush 12/27/2012 3:27pm
12/27/2012 3:27pm
Barnett117 wrote:
I ride at a place called Sandy Oaks a lot and I have found out that in 1977 there was a pro national here that Bob...
I ride at a place called Sandy Oaks a lot and I have found out that in 1977 there was a pro national here that Bob Hannah won by a long shot. He also claimed it to be the toughest track he has ever rode. It is nothing but deep deep sand and whoops not even one jump. There is a connecting loop that we ride that is fairly wide and really deep whoops. I think it may be part of what was raced on. If anyone has anymore info or pictures of the place back in the day, that would be awesome!
There's also another lost National that you never hear that was held once in East St. Louis - Raceway. Ricky Johnson dislocated his hip and Magoo won the big class I think. It must have been in the early 80's.
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