Until this happens anything we mention is BS

ATKpilot99
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9/13/2012 5:39pm
fader418 wrote:
This thread is comedy! Comparing Dungey to Caroli? All I know is RV is the fastest man on the planet by far. And how come Rattay...
This thread is comedy! Comparing Dungey to Caroli? All I know is RV is the fastest man on the planet by far. And how come Rattay didn't win when he came over here? No world champion has or ever will win over here. Its that simple. If the americans were not the fastest then why the hell to all the euro's come here to race?
Bayle Albertyn and Langston are the first that come to mind.
Trent179
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9/13/2012 8:04pm
mxgeoff wrote:
The baddest mother fucker on a dirt schooter might just get his ass handed to him in Lommel in two weeks. Think about that if it...
The baddest mother fucker on a dirt schooter might just get his ass handed to him in Lommel in two weeks. Think about that if it happens and then you might change your attitude. The baddest mother fucker on a dirt schooter has every chance to win in Lommel, but just as good a chance of getting beaten by not one World Champion, but two.
Why would you have even started this thread? Jesus.... it's pretty obvious you are jealous of the USA's dominance in motocross .
tonyb
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9/13/2012 8:22pm
mxgeoff wrote:
Until a series with AMA and FIM riders race the same series in both America and Europe and the points are tallied all this BS about...
Until a series with AMA and FIM riders race the same series in both America and Europe and the points are tallied all this BS about who is better is just that BS. A non American racing in America has his back to the wall straight away, and because top American's don't want to race in Europe, we can never get a level idea of how they would deal with that change.

Even with the American economy being like it is the biggest money is still in America, maybe not like it was, but still it is a good place to earn a dollar if you are one of the top five guys. Europe does not pay their top five like America pay theirs and Americans are not interested in anything that is not American, so forget seeing a Villopoto, Dungey or Stewart doing the GPs.

What the whole Roczen affair has taught me is that the fastest MX2 rider in the World, and he clearly showed that in the 2010 and 2011 MXoN, beating all the top MX2 riders and a bunch of the leading MX1 and Open riders found it tough racing a series that suits the American riders.

No disrespect to Baggett, Barcia and Tomac, because clearly those guys are the fastest three 250cc riders in America, no matter who the World sent, but they can not lay claim to being the fastest MX2 riders in the World and there is no way of finding out if they are or not.

It doesn't matter who comes up against Herlings in Lommel, they ain''t going to beat him. His advantage in sand is even greater than the advantage the American riders have in America. he could crash and still pass nearly the whole field, MXoN or GP. Herling might just be the greatest sand rider we have ever seen, he is that good. Put him in the AMA series and he might finish 6th. Put an AMA rider up against him in sand and he will make them look slow.

So all the bragging about who is best can not be resolved by anything that has occured for non American riders racing in America and until we have a series with all the riders racing eachother, in different countries, then nobody knows who the best is.

We can guess that Villopoto is the fastest rider in the World (he gets my vote), but again it is just a guess.

Geoff
Geoff, well said and I would have to agree with you. Until a 12 race series with 6 races held at the best American tracks and 6 held at the best European tracks with the top 20 riders from the AMA Nats and the top 20 from the the GPs is held we will never know for sure who the best really is. I would have to agree with you though that Villopoto is probably the best in the world overall currently.
pilotdude
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9/13/2012 10:04pm
mxgeoff wrote:
Until a series with AMA and FIM riders race the same series in both America and Europe and the points are tallied all this BS about...
Until a series with AMA and FIM riders race the same series in both America and Europe and the points are tallied all this BS about who is better is just that BS. A non American racing in America has his back to the wall straight away, and because top American's don't want to race in Europe, we can never get a level idea of how they would deal with that change.

Even with the American economy being like it is the biggest money is still in America, maybe not like it was, but still it is a good place to earn a dollar if you are one of the top five guys. Europe does not pay their top five like America pay theirs and Americans are not interested in anything that is not American, so forget seeing a Villopoto, Dungey or Stewart doing the GPs.

What the whole Roczen affair has taught me is that the fastest MX2 rider in the World, and he clearly showed that in the 2010 and 2011 MXoN, beating all the top MX2 riders and a bunch of the leading MX1 and Open riders found it tough racing a series that suits the American riders.

No disrespect to Baggett, Barcia and Tomac, because clearly those guys are the fastest three 250cc riders in America, no matter who the World sent, but they can not lay claim to being the fastest MX2 riders in the World and there is no way of finding out if they are or not.

It doesn't matter who comes up against Herlings in Lommel, they ain''t going to beat him. His advantage in sand is even greater than the advantage the American riders have in America. he could crash and still pass nearly the whole field, MXoN or GP. Herling might just be the greatest sand rider we have ever seen, he is that good. Put him in the AMA series and he might finish 6th. Put an AMA rider up against him in sand and he will make them look slow.

So all the bragging about who is best can not be resolved by anything that has occured for non American riders racing in America and until we have a series with all the riders racing eachother, in different countries, then nobody knows who the best is.

We can guess that Villopoto is the fastest rider in the World (he gets my vote), but again it is just a guess.

Geoff
tonyb wrote:
Geoff, well said and I would have to agree with you. Until a 12 race series with 6 races held at the best American tracks and...
Geoff, well said and I would have to agree with you. Until a 12 race series with 6 races held at the best American tracks and 6 held at the best European tracks with the top 20 riders from the AMA Nats and the top 20 from the the GPs is held we will never know for sure who the best really is. I would have to agree with you though that Villopoto is probably the best in the world overall currently.
Right about the Villopoto part, not so much about the rest.

The Shop

PaleBlue
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9/13/2012 11:29pm
mccread wrote:
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week...
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week and you have to race them at their own sport (supercross) so of course it's hard, that is what makes it such a great achivement and such an atrractive challenge.

But beating World Champions in your own country is not proof Americans are better it just means they are better in their own county. Put them in a world championship for a fair comparison.

Racing Herlings in the Dutch Nationals would make him harder to beat than racing him in the World Championship too.

Americans don't race GPs because the US media don't give it the same exposure and American's find it hard racing outside America, American's are also pretty insulated in American and prefer racing at home, and like you American's are fed the lie that their series is superior to the GPs.

Yet again you are showing your arrogance by failing to agree than both series are similar. You cannot accept that Herlings is as good as the Americans and can beat them. You constantly try to make you that American riders are better, it is embarassing for you.

You don't get the fact that the World Championship is just as good as the AMA Nationals but it is totally different. But thank you for proving my point that Americans constantly claim to be better, while the the rest of us point out that the World Championship is just as good and gets disrespected in America.

Everts said Herlings is the fastest sand rider in the world not me.
McCread,

As of this post you've 4353 posts and they all say the same f*cking thing !!!!

Most people stopped listening to your broken record years ago and only the retards bother responding.

Whether your're right or not is immaterial, change the record (or quit), You can't be this tedious in real life, can you?

Pale Blue.
APLMAN99
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9/13/2012 11:57pm
mccread wrote:
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week...
You missed the point, racing Americans in America is hard, very hard. But it is not a fair comparison, americans have home country advantage every week and you have to race them at their own sport (supercross) so of course it's hard, that is what makes it such a great achivement and such an atrractive challenge.

But beating World Champions in your own country is not proof Americans are better it just means they are better in their own county. Put them in a world championship for a fair comparison.

Racing Herlings in the Dutch Nationals would make him harder to beat than racing him in the World Championship too.

Americans don't race GPs because the US media don't give it the same exposure and American's find it hard racing outside America, American's are also pretty insulated in American and prefer racing at home, and like you American's are fed the lie that their series is superior to the GPs.

Yet again you are showing your arrogance by failing to agree than both series are similar. You cannot accept that Herlings is as good as the Americans and can beat them. You constantly try to make you that American riders are better, it is embarassing for you.

You don't get the fact that the World Championship is just as good as the AMA Nationals but it is totally different. But thank you for proving my point that Americans constantly claim to be better, while the the rest of us point out that the World Championship is just as good and gets disrespected in America.

Everts said Herlings is the fastest sand rider in the world not me.
You are substituting what you wish for what is reality.

Top American riders don't go to Europe for one reason, they don't feel they have to "step down" until it is way too late in their careers. Some younger or second tier guys go over because they have no other real options, but that's really the only reason.

Of course a young rider is going to get better. That's how careers generally go. The more racing and practicing a young guy does, the better he gets.

The series aren't really that much different. The only major difference is the intensity of the racers themselves and the fact that tha AMA guys have to race a brutal SX series before the MX series even starts. If the GP guys started racing a full SX series on top of the GP series, they'd probably catch up to the AMA guys pretty quickly.

But right now, they don't and they aren't quite up there, as a group.
Berguven
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9/14/2012 3:04am
fader418 wrote:
This thread is comedy! Comparing Dungey to Caroli? All I know is RV is the fastest man on the planet by far. And how come Rattay...
This thread is comedy! Comparing Dungey to Caroli? All I know is RV is the fastest man on the planet by far. And how come Rattay didn't win when he came over here? No world champion has or ever will win over here. Its that simple. If the americans were not the fastest then why the hell to all the euro's come here to race?
fader are you on glue? you have google available right?
it has been several both winning and champions. tyla as you mention won a few last year.
Berguven
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9/14/2012 3:10am Edited Date/Time 9/14/2012 3:22am
everybody would race in sibira if the money was there. even americans. dont bullshit yourself.

if AC didint get payed right he would be swimming to amerika. Is pretty funny that you think the reson why he is not racing there is because he is scared
themrtoad
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9/14/2012 4:36am
I can't believe i actually read all those seven pages...I feel raped in my head. The best comment was the last one above by fellow swede Berguven.

All the top riders choose a pretty hard career, but it was their own choice and they are not victims. The can make decent money from age 16-30 then it's all over. I think they follow the money and worry more about injuries and the economic situation more than who is the fastest. If anyone of them could choose between being the richest people in the sporting business or being regarded the fastest on a forum they would pick the first one. If not they are morons just like the rest of us here LOL
CBird81
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9/14/2012 5:40am
Berguven wrote:
everybody would race in sibira if the money was there. even americans. dont bullshit yourself. if AC didint get payed right he would be swimming to...
everybody would race in sibira if the money was there. even americans. dont bullshit yourself.

if AC didint get payed right he would be swimming to amerika. Is pretty funny that you think the reson why he is not racing there is because he is scared
Post of the year!
Aaryn234
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9/14/2012 6:24am
fader418 wrote:
This thread is comedy! Comparing Dungey to Caroli? All I know is RV is the fastest man on the planet by far. And how come Rattay...
This thread is comedy! Comparing Dungey to Caroli? All I know is RV is the fastest man on the planet by far. And how come Rattay didn't win when he came over here? No world champion has or ever will win over here. Its that simple. If the americans were not the fastest then why the hell to all the euro's come here to race?
I guess your sort of right, Chad Reed only finished second in the World Championship before heading to America to win a Lites Supercross title at his first go, then collected a couple of SX titles and a Outdoor title.

But he was not a world champion, only a runner up!
FreshTopEnd
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9/14/2012 6:43am
Berguven wrote:
everybody would race in sibira if the money was there. even americans. dont bullshit yourself. if AC didint get payed right he would be swimming to...
everybody would race in sibira if the money was there. even americans. dont bullshit yourself.

if AC didint get payed right he would be swimming to amerika. Is pretty funny that you think the reson why he is not racing there is because he is scared
Only a handful of twits think the reason AC hasn't come over is because he doesn't think he can cut it. Just as a only a handful of twits think the top US riders don't ride the GPs because they don't think they can cut it in that series. And you're correct that unless one of the was a real homebody, if the twenty best riders could all get the best deals available to them in one series, they all be in that series, and that's not the case.

But it remains the case that apparently there are more opportunities to at least shoot for the big deal in the US, and that more top ~ top ~ talent comes here than leaves here. That's not to say that all the best riders leave the GPs, or that the ones that stay aren't making more than some of the one's that leave (at least initially). But what it does mean that one series is losing talent and another is gaining that talent, and in spite of being more rigorous for all the riders involved and especially for those that leave the GP's and have to adapt to a new world where the domestic riders are at home (McCread's current spin). Top GP talent still come here in spite of that.

Now we can imagine a world where they would all gravitate to the Siberian series, but in the real world the indisputable fact is that the more good riders (not all, more) gravitate to the US and that's to the benefit of the talent depth of this series and a detriment to the talent depth of the GP's.

But it doesn't settle who the fastest (or best) racer is over the course of a year.
Berguven
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9/14/2012 6:44am
fader418 wrote:
This thread is comedy! Comparing Dungey to Caroli? All I know is RV is the fastest man on the planet by far. And how come Rattay...
This thread is comedy! Comparing Dungey to Caroli? All I know is RV is the fastest man on the planet by far. And how come Rattay didn't win when he came over here? No world champion has or ever will win over here. Its that simple. If the americans were not the fastest then why the hell to all the euro's come here to race?
Aaryn234 wrote:
I guess your sort of right, Chad Reed only finished second in the World Championship before heading to America to win a Lites Supercross title at...
I guess your sort of right, Chad Reed only finished second in the World Championship before heading to America to win a Lites Supercross title at his first go, then collected a couple of SX titles and a Outdoor title.

But he was not a world champion, only a runner up!
Pretty sure he is sort of wrong.

Here are the champs. Race winner are a couple more
Greg Albertyn
Mickael Pichon
Jean-Michel Bayle
Christophe Pourcel
FreshTopEnd
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9/14/2012 6:49am
fader418 wrote:
This thread is comedy! Comparing Dungey to Caroli? All I know is RV is the fastest man on the planet by far. And how come Rattay...
This thread is comedy! Comparing Dungey to Caroli? All I know is RV is the fastest man on the planet by far. And how come Rattay didn't win when he came over here? No world champion has or ever will win over here. Its that simple. If the americans were not the fastest then why the hell to all the euro's come here to race?
Aaryn234 wrote:
I guess your sort of right, Chad Reed only finished second in the World Championship before heading to America to win a Lites Supercross title at...
I guess your sort of right, Chad Reed only finished second in the World Championship before heading to America to win a Lites Supercross title at his first go, then collected a couple of SX titles and a Outdoor title.

But he was not a world champion, only a runner up!
Berguven wrote:
Pretty sure he is sort of wrong.

Here are the champs. Race winner are a couple more
Greg Albertyn
Mickael Pichon
Jean-Michel Bayle
Christophe Pourcel
If we're talking race wins here and not titles, Tortelli won races as well.

Did Pichon win a title before coming here, or after like Dobb?
themrtoad
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9/14/2012 6:57am
If we're talking race wins here and not titles, Tortelli won races as well. Did Pichon win a title before coming here, or after like Dobb...
If we're talking race wins here and not titles, Tortelli won races as well.

Did Pichon win a title before coming here, or after like Dobb?
After, he won 2001 and 2002. Last champion on a twostroke also(really sad) in a while(hopefully)
Berguven
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9/14/2012 7:00am
Berguven wrote:
everybody would race in sibira if the money was there. even americans. dont bullshit yourself. if AC didint get payed right he would be swimming to...
everybody would race in sibira if the money was there. even americans. dont bullshit yourself.

if AC didint get payed right he would be swimming to amerika. Is pretty funny that you think the reson why he is not racing there is because he is scared
Only a handful of twits think the reason AC hasn't come over is because he doesn't think he can cut it. Just as a only a...
Only a handful of twits think the reason AC hasn't come over is because he doesn't think he can cut it. Just as a only a handful of twits think the top US riders don't ride the GPs because they don't think they can cut it in that series. And you're correct that unless one of the was a real homebody, if the twenty best riders could all get the best deals available to them in one series, they all be in that series, and that's not the case.

But it remains the case that apparently there are more opportunities to at least shoot for the big deal in the US, and that more top ~ top ~ talent comes here than leaves here. That's not to say that all the best riders leave the GPs, or that the ones that stay aren't making more than some of the one's that leave (at least initially). But what it does mean that one series is losing talent and another is gaining that talent, and in spite of being more rigorous for all the riders involved and especially for those that leave the GP's and have to adapt to a new world where the domestic riders are at home (McCread's current spin). Top GP talent still come here in spite of that.

Now we can imagine a world where they would all gravitate to the Siberian series, but in the real world the indisputable fact is that the more good riders (not all, more) gravitate to the US and that's to the benefit of the talent depth of this series and a detriment to the talent depth of the GP's.

But it doesn't settle who the fastest (or best) racer is over the course of a year.
My point is Money, potetial glory and fame makes one series more interesting than another. I for one have goosebumps watching AMA races. When watching MXGP Im fiddling with my ipad and press fast forward in when nothing exiting is going on. ( Yes my ipad, perv!)

It is easier for a 17-20 year old than a 26-30 year old to deal with the whole package in AMA. SX/MX.
The older MX1 guys tend to stay put. And the top MX1 guys have not much to gain, but a lot to lose to switch series.
Harry_Gray
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9/14/2012 7:12am
mxgeoff wrote:
Until a series with AMA and FIM riders race the same series in both America and Europe and the points are tallied all this BS about...
Until a series with AMA and FIM riders race the same series in both America and Europe and the points are tallied all this BS about who is better is just that BS. A non American racing in America has his back to the wall straight away, and because top American's don't want to race in Europe, we can never get a level idea of how they would deal with that change.

Even with the American economy being like it is the biggest money is still in America, maybe not like it was, but still it is a good place to earn a dollar if you are one of the top five guys. Europe does not pay their top five like America pay theirs and Americans are not interested in anything that is not American, so forget seeing a Villopoto, Dungey or Stewart doing the GPs.

What the whole Roczen affair has taught me is that the fastest MX2 rider in the World, and he clearly showed that in the 2010 and 2011 MXoN, beating all the top MX2 riders and a bunch of the leading MX1 and Open riders found it tough racing a series that suits the American riders.

No disrespect to Baggett, Barcia and Tomac, because clearly those guys are the fastest three 250cc riders in America, no matter who the World sent, but they can not lay claim to being the fastest MX2 riders in the World and there is no way of finding out if they are or not.

It doesn't matter who comes up against Herlings in Lommel, they ain''t going to beat him. His advantage in sand is even greater than the advantage the American riders have in America. he could crash and still pass nearly the whole field, MXoN or GP. Herling might just be the greatest sand rider we have ever seen, he is that good. Put him in the AMA series and he might finish 6th. Put an AMA rider up against him in sand and he will make them look slow.

So all the bragging about who is best can not be resolved by anything that has occured for non American riders racing in America and until we have a series with all the riders racing eachother, in different countries, then nobody knows who the best is.

We can guess that Villopoto is the fastest rider in the World (he gets my vote), but again it is just a guess.

Geoff
Geoff; First off I like this thread. Two, I think a lot of people are making this thread sound a LOT more Inflammatory than it should. I know that the AMA and the FIM wouldn't budge at all on combining the two series to identify who the real world champions would be. Yes, there are incredibly fast racers on both sides of the pond; however we will never answer that proverbial question. I'd like to see something similar to the old Trans-AMA series in the fall so that we could match up the fastest riders on both sides of the pond race against each other. Going into that wayback machine of mine, I'm glad that guys like Torsten Hallman, Roger Decoster, Joel Robert and Pierre Karsmakers came over here and raced; othewise we wouldn't have guys like Marty Smith, Bob Hannah, David Bailey, Ricky Johnson, Jeff Ward, Jeremy McGrath, and Ricky Carmichael. Giving credit where credit is due, the Europeans made us better...that's my two cents on that.
TMV
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9/14/2012 7:14am
If we're talking race wins here and not titles, Tortelli won races as well. Did Pichon win a title before coming here, or after like Dobb...
If we're talking race wins here and not titles, Tortelli won races as well.

Did Pichon win a title before coming here, or after like Dobb?
How forget about DV? He won a couple too...
jamma10
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9/14/2012 8:28am Edited Date/Time 9/14/2012 8:31am
Berguven wrote:
Pretty sure he is sort of wrong.

Here are the champs. Race winner are a couple more
Greg Albertyn
Mickael Pichon
Jean-Michel Bayle
Christophe Pourcel
Langston (125 Outdoor, SX Lites West, SX Lites East, 450 Outdoor)
Townley (Lites East)

Roncada (not a GP champ) also won an East Coast SX championship
9/14/2012 6:00pm
mxgeoff wrote:
The baddest mother fucker on a dirt schooter might just get his ass handed to him in Lommel in two weeks. Think about that if it...
The baddest mother fucker on a dirt schooter might just get his ass handed to him in Lommel in two weeks. Think about that if it happens and then you might change your attitude. The baddest mother fucker on a dirt schooter has every chance to win in Lommel, but just as good a chance of getting beaten by not one World Champion, but two.
I love the Nationals and the GP's and think the top of both series are very close but to help DC make a point.
So a deep sand race like Lommel is what you're going to use as a deciding factor in comparing the two series?
Well I suppose if thats the case then AC and JH better come to A1 because that is about the same comparison. MX Sports riders ride deep sand about as much as GP riders ride SX and the skill set is about as specific.

A good friend of mine raced both the GP's and the Nationals and in his opinion there was no comparison.The politics of the GP's mixed with the money of the AMA nationals have helped the Nationals become deeper, more intense, and more competitive.
My friend is English and surely not mistaken for a Euro and a real straight shooter.
In his opinion the Nationals are the ultimate test of the MX racer period. In the GP's you will find some guys as fast as anyone but not a field as deep and confident as the Nationls not including the SX series.

Bottom line is thT it doesnt matter why GP champions come to the Nationals, what matters is" be it money or pride" the best riders from around the world tend to come to the Nationals to try and lay claim to one of the two titles be it SX or US MX.

The US Nationals are not just US MX, they are US MX mixed with almost every world champion, and that makes them pretty damn interesting.

So now back to the MXDN.
Is it a GP versus MX Sports or America versus everyone?
Please pick one so I know what game we are playing.

1) Lommel is as specific to a dirt bike race as SX is. When all of the GP riders come over for the MXDN when it's held at A1 I will put as much weight onto this years MXDN's winner.
2) Riding the sand is way more fun than SX for me but some can do one way better than the other and make a hell of a lot better living.
3) I wish we could do a MX sports versus GP race instead of the MXDN. 20 vs 20 unless the GP cheifs choose a deep sand track which would cause MX Sports to choose a SX race the following yearSmile This would help us prove which series is faster overall not better.
I think MX Sports would be really hard to beat for an overall at SX, MX, or the deepest sand track.
MX SPORTS (SX, MX) RIDER ENTRY LIST FOR 2013 MXDN
1)RV
2)RD
3)JS
4)REED
5)TC
6)ALESSI
7)BAGGET
8)TOMAC
9)BARCIA
10)WILSON
11)Roczen
12)MM
13)TOWNLEY
14)RATTRAY
15)METCALF
16)Windham
17)DM
18)Short
19)CP??? Not sure where he'll be.
20) AC
9/14/2012 6:06pm
mxgeoff wrote:
The baddest mother fucker on a dirt schooter might just get his ass handed to him in Lommel in two weeks. Think about that if it...
The baddest mother fucker on a dirt schooter might just get his ass handed to him in Lommel in two weeks. Think about that if it happens and then you might change your attitude. The baddest mother fucker on a dirt schooter has every chance to win in Lommel, but just as good a chance of getting beaten by not one World Champion, but two.
I love the Nationals and the GP's and think the top of both series are very close, but to help DC make a point.
So a deep sand race like Lommel is what you're going to use as a deciding factor in comparing the two series?
Well I suppose if thats the case then AC and JH better come to A1 because that is about the same comparison. MX Sports riders ride deep sand about as much as GP riders ride SX and the skill set is about as specific.

A friend of mine raced both the GP's and the Nationals and in his opinion there was no comparison.The politics of the GP's mixed with the money of the AMA nationals have helped the Nationals become deeper, more intense, and more competitive.
In his opinion the Nationals are the ultimate test of the MX racer period. In the GP's you will find some guys as fast as anyone but not a field as deep and confident as the Nationals not including the SX series.

Bottom line is that it doesnt matter why GP champions come to the Nationals, what matters is" be it money or pride" the best riders from around the world tend to come to the Nationals to try and lay claim to one of the two titles be it SX or US MX.

The US Nationals are not just US MX, they are US MX mixed with almost every world champion, and that makes them pretty darn interesting.

So now back to the MXDN.
Is it a GP versus MX Sports or America versus everyone?
Please pick one so I know what game we are playing.

1) Lommel is as specific to a dirt bike race as SX is. When all of the GP riders come over for the MXDN when it's held at A1 then I will put as much weight onto this years MXDN's winner.
2) Riding the sand is way more fun than SX for me but some can do one way better than the other and make a hell of a lot better living.
3) I wish we could do a MX Sports versus GP race instead of the MXDN. 20 vs 20 unless the GP cheifs choose a deep sand track which would cause MX Sports to choose a SX race the following yearSmile This would help us prove which series is faster overall, not better.
I think MX Sports would be really hard to beat for an overall at SX, MX, or the deepest sand track.
MX SPORTS (SX, MX) RIDER ENTRY LIST FOR 2013 MXDN
1)RV
2)RD
3)JS
4)REED
5)TC
6)ALESSI
7)BAGGET
8)TOMAC
9)BARCIA
10)WILSON
11)Roczen
12)MM
13)TOWNLEY
14)RATTRAY
15)METCALF
16)Windham
17)DM
18)Short
19)CP??? Not sure where he'll be.
20) AC
orangecrush
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Scottsdale, AZ, USA
9/15/2012 6:48am
DC wrote:
Hold on, Geoff. Since you're the author of much of that back-and-forth BS (and the results of 2012 prove the point pretty clearly that it's all...
Hold on, Geoff. Since you're the author of much of that back-and-forth BS (and the results of 2012 prove the point pretty clearly that it's all been BS), I would like to point out that while Ken Roczen was very fast at the 2010 MXoN, the fastest MX2 rider in the GPs that year was actually Marvin Musquin...

Until someone like you actually comes to a U.S. national and sees how fast our kids really are, this really is all BS. Let them race, enjoy the races -- make sense?

And you're right, Herlings would make anyone look slow in the sand. But aren't you worried about how the Americans will make him look in SX? Of course he will learn, as will Marvin and Kenny, but you guys have to give them time to live up to the high expectations you keep heaping on them before they even get here to race.

And give our guys a little more credit, please, rather than trying to discount their success against your best exports this year.

DC
MX Sports
mxgeoff wrote:
DC, True about Musquin winning the title, but by seasons end Roczen was clearly faster, but sure Musquin was the fastest for the complete season. End...
DC,

True about Musquin winning the title, but by seasons end Roczen was clearly faster, but sure Musquin was the fastest for the complete season. End of season results in 2010 were 0-1-1-2-1-2-1-1-0-1-1-1 for Roczen. By des Nations nobody was going to race with him, not Canard, and not Musquin.

DC, until a top AMA guy races in Europe it''s BS, you can''t just compare how it is because a non American goes to an America series. Thats the point of this whole thing. It isn't an even playing field, that is why home matches for all sports are an advantage. True or false?

Herlings would get killed in Supercross, as would Cairoli or any other European. So no, I am not worried and I would hope none of them go and do it, it is a madmans sport, breaks more bones than the sport I follow.

Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that.

Geoff
"Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that"

Through all your BS, at least you can be honest.

BTW: They not only have spanked them, they have spanked them on American tracks for several seasons now. Even I had higher expectations of Musquin and Roxy, but it just shows how much the kids here put into the sport.

In all seriousness, AC is smart to stay in EU as he can see what became of the former "world champs". Better to be on top in a small pond than to be average in a large one.

One last point....How many times has Americans dominated the MdN now? You can never discredit this record.

What would be great is to see your boy Herlings get his ass handed to him in the sand, just so you stop spewing so much nonsense. Only time will tell if he's as good as you say though.
motogrady
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3931
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Location
USA
9/15/2012 7:19am
Another whole series, where's the time for that?
You guys are dreaming.

This is pretty much the only sport that has anything like the MXdN.

It is a very, very big deal.

All this "if if if, or because because because," stuff, just cheap talk.

The MXdN is real, and so, the only way one can put a yardstick on what countries
have the best riders at that point in time.

that's what one guy thinks anyway.
Derpin' DJ
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Newcastle, AU
9/15/2012 7:27am
[b]"Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that"[/b] Through all your BS, at least you can...
"Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that"

Through all your BS, at least you can be honest.

BTW: They not only have spanked them, they have spanked them on American tracks for several seasons now. Even I had higher expectations of Musquin and Roxy, but it just shows how much the kids here put into the sport.

In all seriousness, AC is smart to stay in EU as he can see what became of the former "world champs". Better to be on top in a small pond than to be average in a large one.

One last point....How many times has Americans dominated the MdN now? You can never discredit this record.

What would be great is to see your boy Herlings get his ass handed to him in the sand, just so you stop spewing so much nonsense. Only time will tell if he's as good as you say though.
With the way Tomac and Barcia rode last year, and if Roczen raced over there, and if Musquin didn't get Barcia'd, 4/5 top guys would have been European.
DonM
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Location
USA
Fantasy
9/15/2012 7:44am
Berguven wrote:
everybody would race in sibira if the money was there. even americans. dont bullshit yourself. if AC didint get payed right he would be swimming to...
everybody would race in sibira if the money was there. even americans. dont bullshit yourself.

if AC didint get payed right he would be swimming to amerika. Is pretty funny that you think the reson why he is not racing there is because he is scared
Only a handful of twits think the reason AC hasn't come over is because he doesn't think he can cut it. Just as a only a...
Only a handful of twits think the reason AC hasn't come over is because he doesn't think he can cut it. Just as a only a handful of twits think the top US riders don't ride the GPs because they don't think they can cut it in that series. And you're correct that unless one of the was a real homebody, if the twenty best riders could all get the best deals available to them in one series, they all be in that series, and that's not the case.

But it remains the case that apparently there are more opportunities to at least shoot for the big deal in the US, and that more top ~ top ~ talent comes here than leaves here. That's not to say that all the best riders leave the GPs, or that the ones that stay aren't making more than some of the one's that leave (at least initially). But what it does mean that one series is losing talent and another is gaining that talent, and in spite of being more rigorous for all the riders involved and especially for those that leave the GP's and have to adapt to a new world where the domestic riders are at home (McCread's current spin). Top GP talent still come here in spite of that.

Now we can imagine a world where they would all gravitate to the Siberian series, but in the real world the indisputable fact is that the more good riders (not all, more) gravitate to the US and that's to the benefit of the talent depth of this series and a detriment to the talent depth of the GP's.

But it doesn't settle who the fastest (or best) racer is over the course of a year.
Berguven wrote:
My point is Money, potetial glory and fame makes one series more interesting than another. I for one have goosebumps watching AMA races. When watching MXGP...
My point is Money, potetial glory and fame makes one series more interesting than another. I for one have goosebumps watching AMA races. When watching MXGP Im fiddling with my ipad and press fast forward in when nothing exiting is going on. ( Yes my ipad, perv!)

It is easier for a 17-20 year old than a 26-30 year old to deal with the whole package in AMA. SX/MX.
The older MX1 guys tend to stay put. And the top MX1 guys have not much to gain, but a lot to lose to switch series.
If you think these guys are driven by money and fame you are sorely mistaken. Any champion in any sport is driven to be the best and they will do whatever they can to achieve those goals, money and fame is just a byproduct not the motivation. Guys like Musquin and Kenny and those before them are driven to be champions. They accomplished their goals in the GP's and in their minds they want to be the best of the best and that is to race in the US and to prove to themselves that they can be the best.
Guys like Langston, JMB, Albertyn did it for that reason, not the money! And by doing so they have also shown that the GP's have some of the fastest riders in the world!
orangecrush
Posts
280
Joined
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Location
Scottsdale, AZ, USA
9/15/2012 10:29am
[b]"Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that"[/b] Through all your BS, at least you can...
"Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that"

Through all your BS, at least you can be honest.

BTW: They not only have spanked them, they have spanked them on American tracks for several seasons now. Even I had higher expectations of Musquin and Roxy, but it just shows how much the kids here put into the sport.

In all seriousness, AC is smart to stay in EU as he can see what became of the former "world champs". Better to be on top in a small pond than to be average in a large one.

One last point....How many times has Americans dominated the MdN now? You can never discredit this record.

What would be great is to see your boy Herlings get his ass handed to him in the sand, just so you stop spewing so much nonsense. Only time will tell if he's as good as you say though.
Derpin' DJ wrote:
With the way Tomac and Barcia rode last year, and if Roczen raced over there, and if Musquin didn't get Barcia'd, 4/5 top guys would have...
With the way Tomac and Barcia rode last year, and if Roczen raced over there, and if Musquin didn't get Barcia'd, 4/5 top guys would have been European.
"Derpin' DJ wrote: With the way Tomac and Barcia rode last year, and if Roczen raced over there, and if Musquin didn't get Barcia'd, 4/5 top guys would have been European."

Well If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas too.
watson
Posts
712
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Location
Houston, TX, USA
9/15/2012 10:58am
9/15/2012 11:01am Edited Date/Time 9/15/2012 11:09am
Only a handful of twits think the reason AC hasn't come over is because he doesn't think he can cut it. Just as a only a...
Only a handful of twits think the reason AC hasn't come over is because he doesn't think he can cut it. Just as a only a handful of twits think the top US riders don't ride the GPs because they don't think they can cut it in that series. And you're correct that unless one of the was a real homebody, if the twenty best riders could all get the best deals available to them in one series, they all be in that series, and that's not the case.

But it remains the case that apparently there are more opportunities to at least shoot for the big deal in the US, and that more top ~ top ~ talent comes here than leaves here. That's not to say that all the best riders leave the GPs, or that the ones that stay aren't making more than some of the one's that leave (at least initially). But what it does mean that one series is losing talent and another is gaining that talent, and in spite of being more rigorous for all the riders involved and especially for those that leave the GP's and have to adapt to a new world where the domestic riders are at home (McCread's current spin). Top GP talent still come here in spite of that.

Now we can imagine a world where they would all gravitate to the Siberian series, but in the real world the indisputable fact is that the more good riders (not all, more) gravitate to the US and that's to the benefit of the talent depth of this series and a detriment to the talent depth of the GP's.

But it doesn't settle who the fastest (or best) racer is over the course of a year.
Berguven wrote:
My point is Money, potetial glory and fame makes one series more interesting than another. I for one have goosebumps watching AMA races. When watching MXGP...
My point is Money, potetial glory and fame makes one series more interesting than another. I for one have goosebumps watching AMA races. When watching MXGP Im fiddling with my ipad and press fast forward in when nothing exiting is going on. ( Yes my ipad, perv!)

It is easier for a 17-20 year old than a 26-30 year old to deal with the whole package in AMA. SX/MX.
The older MX1 guys tend to stay put. And the top MX1 guys have not much to gain, but a lot to lose to switch series.
DonM wrote:
If you think these guys are driven by money and fame you are sorely mistaken. Any champion in any sport is driven to be the best...
If you think these guys are driven by money and fame you are sorely mistaken. Any champion in any sport is driven to be the best and they will do whatever they can to achieve those goals, money and fame is just a byproduct not the motivation. Guys like Musquin and Kenny and those before them are driven to be champions. They accomplished their goals in the GP's and in their minds they want to be the best of the best and that is to race in the US and to prove to themselves that they can be the best.
Guys like Langston, JMB, Albertyn did it for that reason, not the money! And by doing so they have also shown that the GP's have some of the fastest riders in the world!
money and fame is just a byproduct not the motivation

I understand where you're coming from and I'm not saying that's entirely wrong. But it's also human nature (especially in young males) to seek fame and fortune. I think you're underestimating what a powerful drive that is. I love watching the GPs as much as the Nationals. However they're both very different series, and I have no doubt that overall the Nationals offer a greater chance for wider recognition and money. As much as you're going to get in our sport anyway.

If the MX GPs were world famous to F1 or Moto GP levels, regardless of how much potentially faster or tougher the Nationals are - I don't believe you would see either hide nor hair of guys like Roczen in America. At least not at the current levels we do now. And vice versa. Of course people want fame and recognition for what they do, I mean who doesn't? The more the better. Even the most laid back introvert has an ego buried somewhere within their character. I agree it's not the only factor or the primary reason they initially got going (I sure as hell don't do it for those reasons lol). But c'mon, it is a factor.
TDeath21
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Location
Somewhere, MO, USA
9/15/2012 11:42am
I think it's pretty obvious. The top guys in series A stay in that series for their entire careers. Most of the top guys in series B leave their series to come race in series A. Which one is going to be stronger?
DonM
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Location
USA
Fantasy
9/15/2012 12:37pm
[i] money and fame is just a byproduct not the motivation[/i] I understand where you're coming from and I'm not saying that's entirely wrong. But it's...
money and fame is just a byproduct not the motivation

I understand where you're coming from and I'm not saying that's entirely wrong. But it's also human nature (especially in young males) to seek fame and fortune. I think you're underestimating what a powerful drive that is. I love watching the GPs as much as the Nationals. However they're both very different series, and I have no doubt that overall the Nationals offer a greater chance for wider recognition and money. As much as you're going to get in our sport anyway.

If the MX GPs were world famous to F1 or Moto GP levels, regardless of how much potentially faster or tougher the Nationals are - I don't believe you would see either hide nor hair of guys like Roczen in America. At least not at the current levels we do now. And vice versa. Of course people want fame and recognition for what they do, I mean who doesn't? The more the better. Even the most laid back introvert has an ego buried somewhere within their character. I agree it's not the only factor or the primary reason they initially got going (I sure as hell don't do it for those reasons lol). But c'mon, it is a factor.
I believe we are saying the same thing....it's not all about the money and fame but it does factor into the decision. If the GP's were on the same level as F1 and MotoGP you would see the the US has to offer trying to be there...but as long as Youth Stream is involved that won't happen. I won't waste my time watching US road racing or IndyCar racing, I'm that guy that's up early every Sunday morning watching the best in the world do what they do! (I also have the GP's on my computer)!

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