Should KTM let Dungey pull a Roczen and Cairoli

loftyair
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loftyair 7/4/2012 12:40pm
7/4/2012 12:40pm
Shawn142 wrote:
Well first of all Roczen and Cairoli wanted to race 2-strokes. Dungey has made no such claim or shown any interest in the idea. Second I...
Well first of all Roczen and Cairoli wanted to race 2-strokes. Dungey has made no such claim or shown any interest in the idea.

Second I don't see why he couldn't race a 2012 or 2013 250SX, Michael Willard already put one past AMA tech earlier this year trying to qualify. The pic is from High Point qualifying, you can pretty clearly see Willard's bike has a linkage.

That bike is so much sicker than the pigs they ride now. Make it a 300cc, and nothing else could go around a mx track faster!
sam111
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sam111 7/4/2012 12:48pm
7/4/2012 12:48pm Edited Date/Time 7/4/2012 12:49pm
It would definitely be interesting to see where he would finish on the two stroke. I would like to see it. Whether it will happen or not is another story, but I guess anything is possible. It is a shame Cairoli didn't end up racing the 250T last year.

I would also be interested to see how he would go on a 350. It would be a high risk strategy for KTM though - if he did well the bike would look really good, but if he didn't, the bike would look bad.



fmfred
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fmfred 7/4/2012 2:26pm
7/4/2012 2:26pm
kenny was fully dominating last year and couldn't break the top ten on a two stroke. Dungey is making it look easy this year, but there are some fast guys in that class. He would be lucky to break the top ten, why would he give up a huge possible win bonus to possibly suck roost outside of the top ten all day. I agree he would have some fast lap times, it's just hard to pass 450's on a two stroke.
BobbyM
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BobbyM 7/4/2012 2:27pm
7/4/2012 2:27pm
keep dreaming guys...dungey could do it...sadly the bike couldn't

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hoppsan
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hoppsan 7/4/2012 2:48pm
7/4/2012 2:48pm
fmfred wrote:
kenny was fully dominating last year and couldn't break the top ten on a two stroke. Dungey is making it look easy this year, but there...
kenny was fully dominating last year and couldn't break the top ten on a two stroke. Dungey is making it look easy this year, but there are some fast guys in that class. He would be lucky to break the top ten, why would he give up a huge possible win bonus to possibly suck roost outside of the top ten all day. I agree he would have some fast lap times, it's just hard to pass 450's on a two stroke.
Roczen was 5th in the first moto and was running in 4th before crashing out of the second moto, he also qualified in 4th. Obviously a bit off of his normal pace, but apparently good enough for being a solid top-5 runner. I honestly think a 250 2-stroke would do better against 450's than a 150 2-stroke against 250 4-strokes.

I don't really think there would be any problem with this from anyone, but as someone said already, Roczen and Cairoli themselves wanted to do a race on a 2-stroker. If Dungey wants to I'm sure they let him aswell, why not?

IMHO
surfdunn
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surfdunn 7/4/2012 3:12pm
7/4/2012 3:12pm
so let me get this straight, we should put dungey on a 2 stroke for a national, but yet we have no clue when the last time he actually rode a 2 stroke was. Sounds like a great plan.
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tobz 7/4/2012 3:50pm
7/4/2012 3:50pm
surfdunn wrote:
so let me get this straight, we should put dungey on a 2 stroke for a national, but yet we have no clue when the last...
so let me get this straight, we should put dungey on a 2 stroke for a national, but yet we have no clue when the last time he actually rode a 2 stroke was. Sounds like a great plan.
Umm http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Dungey-on-a-125,1240598


The dunge is too elite and straight faced to race anything but his race bike. Won't happen.
chrisbuehler
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chrisbuehler 7/4/2012 4:59pm
7/4/2012 4:59pm
So the 250 is so out of its league that RD would go from a 45sec lead to barely top 5? I think he would be battling for the win. Ricky's 250 took the measure of Windam's 450 in 2003
tmauto769 7/4/2012 7:21pm
7/4/2012 7:21pm
chrisbuehler wrote:
So the 250 is so out of its league that RD would go from a 45sec lead to barely top 5? I think he would be...
So the 250 is so out of its league that RD would go from a 45sec lead to barely top 5? I think he would be battling for the win. Ricky's 250 took the measure of Windam's 450 in 2003
450's have came a long way in 9yrs, sadly the 250 two stroke hasn't.
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Wandell 7/4/2012 7:30pm
7/4/2012 7:30pm Edited Date/Time 7/4/2012 7:32pm
Sounds cool, in theory. The reality is it will never happen. We are talking about one of the best motocross racers in the world. He's probably a little more picky about a bike than any of use. RD5 and the other top guys put in a ton of time testing and developing every aspect of their bikes. It's a lot more involved than just hopping on a bike and setting the sag on the rear shock!
But, in a perfect world it would be awesome to see RD5 race a perfectly developed/set up KTM250sx against a gate full of 450f's!
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Overdrive 7/4/2012 7:32pm
7/4/2012 7:32pm
And the debate goes on ......... lol I happen to agree that he would still be battling for the win on the 250sx.
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haydos25 7/4/2012 7:35pm
7/4/2012 7:35pm
Look at the GET units an electronics these guys are all running now on 450's. Tuning constantly for every section of the track, traction control, big horsepower, launch control, tires, suspension and geometry matched perfectly to suit the weight and handling characteristics of the bike and rider.

You guys are on drugs if you think its a matter of throwing a pipe and his suspension on a 250SX and calling it good to go out and wipe the floor with the Weimers, Alessis and Shorts of the racing world. Theres more to it then saying, its only marginally down on HP and its lighter so it must be better right.

250's went away for a reason, whether thats an "unfair" capacity limit or they just werent good enough. Nothing has changed, the capacity's still the same, and they're still not good enough. He wont be riding one.
twosmoke30 7/4/2012 7:36pm
7/4/2012 7:36pm
chrisbuehler wrote:
So the 250 is so out of its league that RD would go from a 45sec lead to barely top 5? I think he would be...
So the 250 is so out of its league that RD would go from a 45sec lead to barely top 5? I think he would be battling for the win. Ricky's 250 took the measure of Windam's 450 in 2003
tmauto769 wrote:
450's have came a long way in 9yrs, sadly the 250 two stroke hasn't.
lol you're so misguided...they haven't come any farther besides fuel injection than the 2 stroke has, hmm a stock honda 450 has 52 horsepower...the stock ktm 250sx has 50 horsepower;....ya 450's are SO MUCH MORE ADVANCED!!
Derpin' DJ
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Derpin' DJ 7/4/2012 7:47pm
7/4/2012 7:47pm
Comparing bikes by peak horsepower is kinda dumb... Get a 125 2-stroke to rev to 20000 RPM and it will put out 50 HP as well. It'll have no bottom end though
haydos25
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haydos25 7/4/2012 8:10pm
7/4/2012 8:10pm
twosmoke30 wrote:
lol you're so misguided...they haven't come any farther besides fuel injection than the 2 stroke has, hmm a stock honda 450 has 52 horsepower...the stock ktm...
lol you're so misguided...they haven't come any farther besides fuel injection than the 2 stroke has, hmm a stock honda 450 has 52 horsepower...the stock ktm 250sx has 50 horsepower;....ya 450's are SO MUCH MORE ADVANCED!!
That 52 horsepower is massaged and manicured through electronics and EFI to be in the exact place they want it, to be delivered in the way they want it and when they want it eg. traction control, launch control. If a rider wanted 60 HP from a 450 im sure they could make it for them, and make it tractable in almost any condition. Thats something your reed cages, and main jets cant do unfortunately.

I love 2 strokes, they're just not competetive on the pro level the way the rules are set up right now. and Dunge would be insane to try and take on the caliber of rider out there on a national track on unequal machinery.
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Fearo 7/5/2012 2:15am
7/5/2012 2:15am Edited Date/Time 7/5/2012 2:16am
I would put a months paycheck on it that Dungey would murder the field on a SX250.

Roczen rode to 5th place last year in the 2nd heat in Fermo after a horrible start, on the most 2-stroke unfriendly track on the calendar (super slick and huge hills). Plus there were jumps on the track that the 250s could barely clear, let alone a 125. Put him on a track with some grip like Kegums in Latvia and he would beat everyone in the MX2 GP's but maybe Herlings and Searle.
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Vanilla 7/5/2012 2:58am
7/5/2012 2:58am
twosmoke30 wrote:
lol you're so misguided...they haven't come any farther besides fuel injection than the 2 stroke has, hmm a stock honda 450 has 52 horsepower...the stock ktm...
lol you're so misguided...they haven't come any farther besides fuel injection than the 2 stroke has, hmm a stock honda 450 has 52 horsepower...the stock ktm 250sx has 50 horsepower;....ya 450's are SO MUCH MORE ADVANCED!!
haydos25 wrote:
That 52 horsepower is massaged and manicured through electronics and EFI to be in the exact place they want it, to be delivered in the way...
That 52 horsepower is massaged and manicured through electronics and EFI to be in the exact place they want it, to be delivered in the way they want it and when they want it eg. traction control, launch control. If a rider wanted 60 HP from a 450 im sure they could make it for them, and make it tractable in almost any condition. Thats something your reed cages, and main jets cant do unfortunately.

I love 2 strokes, they're just not competetive on the pro level the way the rules are set up right now. and Dunge would be insane to try and take on the caliber of rider out there on a national track on unequal machinery.
Insane? Really? It would make him a hero for just trying.

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Derpin' DJ
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Derpin' DJ 7/5/2012 3:11am
7/5/2012 3:11am
Dungey just doesn't seem like the type to do something flashy like that
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haydos25 7/5/2012 5:51am
7/5/2012 5:51am
Vanilla wrote:
Insane? Really? It would make him a hero for just trying.
Hero to who?? The 2 stroke mafia hovering around vital? I'm sure not a hero to his financial advisor since he'd likely be throwing away a win bonus, probly not a hero to ktm for not winning every single race he possibly can.

Privateer riders who want to save a bit of cash, stir things up, stick it to the man and get slapped on the back by the nastalgic brigade ride 2 strokes, and good on them. Top tier career professionals like dungey don't, they win titles and races.
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burn1986 7/5/2012 7:01am
7/5/2012 7:01am
Oh c'mon, everyone would love it. Dungey would probably make somewhere in the top six, but it would be totally cool. It wouldn't hurt KTM at all.
yota
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yota 7/5/2012 7:09am
7/5/2012 7:09am
Is the 250SX even homolgated?
Shawn142
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Shawn142 7/5/2012 7:19am
7/5/2012 7:19am
yota wrote:
Is the 250SX even homolgated?
Already said this earlier in the thread, 2012 and 2013 KTM 250SX is NOT homolgated. But that didn't stop Willard from trying to qualify for High Point on one. AMA tech inspection leaves something to be desired on rule enforcement.

And like my original post said I think everyone is missing the point. Roczen was very vocal about wanting to race the 2-stroke. Dungey has never shown any interest in the idea at all.
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mxdude105 7/5/2012 8:40am
7/5/2012 8:40am
I see absolutely no chance of Dungey doing this. More likely than not, he will wrap up the title at least one race early. If Reed, Stew, Villo, or Canard was in this same position, I could possibly see one of them taking a chance and running a two stroke in a meaningless race just for the fun of it and for the fans (especially Trey). Not Dungey. Out of the big 5 I see him as the least willing to take chances and make major changes (aside from his switch to KTM, where even then he actually was going to a program full of familiar, proven staff). You know that feeling where you just say "To hell with it" and go for it, whatever "it" is? Dungey lacks that ability. Everything is calculated and plotted generations beforehand. I doubt he planned in summer of 2004 to race a two stroke KTM at the final round of outdoors in '12, therefore it will not happen.
burn1986
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burn1986 7/5/2012 9:06am
7/5/2012 9:06am Edited Date/Time 7/5/2012 9:06am
yota wrote:
Is the 250SX even homolgated?
Shawn142 wrote:
Already said this earlier in the thread, 2012 and 2013 KTM 250SX is NOT homolgated. But that didn't stop Willard from trying to qualify for High...
Already said this earlier in the thread, 2012 and 2013 KTM 250SX is NOT homolgated. But that didn't stop Willard from trying to qualify for High Point on one. AMA tech inspection leaves something to be desired on rule enforcement.

And like my original post said I think everyone is missing the point. Roczen was very vocal about wanting to race the 2-stroke. Dungey has never shown any interest in the idea at all.
We all know it won't happen anyway, but the point was it would be a cool thing.
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Falcon 7/5/2012 9:18am
7/5/2012 9:18am
Good points, all. I don't think it would happen for many reasons, but he could still win on one. I really doubt he would be as fast as he is on the 450 Wunderbike, but the fact of the matter is that a 250 2-stroke in the right hands can still beat 450s - from the amateurs all the way to the pros. It wouldn't be as easy to ride, get as much traction, or have as much time in testing, so clearly the results wouldn't be quite as good. A factory SX250 would still be better than a privateer's CRF450 though, and I bet Dungey could beat the Alessis and Shorts of the world on a privateer's bike on the right day.

Not a guaranteed win (like most of his races are these days,) but a threat for sure.
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kardy 7/5/2012 2:51pm
7/5/2012 2:51pm
yota wrote:
Is the 250SX even homolgated?
Shawn142 wrote:
Already said this earlier in the thread, 2012 and 2013 KTM 250SX is NOT homolgated. But that didn't stop Willard from trying to qualify for High...
Already said this earlier in the thread, 2012 and 2013 KTM 250SX is NOT homolgated. But that didn't stop Willard from trying to qualify for High Point on one. AMA tech inspection leaves something to be desired on rule enforcement.

And like my original post said I think everyone is missing the point. Roczen was very vocal about wanting to race the 2-stroke. Dungey has never shown any interest in the idea at all.
Blaming the AMA for lax tech inspections when there wasn't a single person there who works for the AMA doesn't make much sense to me. Can you remind me who sanctions the outdoor nationals and who's rulebook they're going by? And which part of it says which bikes are homologated?
tmauto769 7/7/2012 4:47am
7/7/2012 4:47am
chrisbuehler wrote:
So the 250 is so out of its league that RD would go from a 45sec lead to barely top 5? I think he would be...
So the 250 is so out of its league that RD would go from a 45sec lead to barely top 5? I think he would be battling for the win. Ricky's 250 took the measure of Windam's 450 in 2003
tmauto769 wrote:
450's have came a long way in 9yrs, sadly the 250 two stroke hasn't.
twosmoke30 wrote:
lol you're so misguided...they haven't come any farther besides fuel injection than the 2 stroke has, hmm a stock honda 450 has 52 horsepower...the stock ktm...
lol you're so misguided...they haven't come any farther besides fuel injection than the 2 stroke has, hmm a stock honda 450 has 52 horsepower...the stock ktm 250sx has 50 horsepower;....ya 450's are SO MUCH MORE ADVANCED!!
Misguided? lol, Dude I have both, do you?
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mxb2 7/7/2012 7:59am
7/7/2012 7:59am
How much does dungey make for an overall win at a national? from the ama, sponsors etc. Why risk that money to ride a 2 stroke to make the 2 stroke dudes happy.

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