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LLs is about getting the best of the best in each class on the gate. There are a ton of opportunities for + 50 riders to race national events. Anyone who shows up can race the +50 at the Mini Olympics, an event that is second only to LLs in prestige and competition. Only 12 +50 riders showed up to race. You want a +50 race with a full gate, all of you guys get together and go to Alabama for the Spring Classic.
By the way, I am +50!
What a great comparison......Education is just like Motocross......
I guess you missed the day they talked about reality.........
Oh, but everything would be just peachy if they would move the age date to March 1 instead of January 1, right?
7 years, two months vs. 7 years 7 months...I guess that 5 months makes ALL the difference in the unicorn and rainbow world of fairness and happiness you seem to live in.
Hey, just curious there Ghandi, what month was your kid born?
It looks to me like if you didn't want your kid to be at such a disadvantage you should have bought that bottle of thunderbird and Barry White cassette a couple months earlier.
Take a little responsibility for your poor planning. I mean, this rule was probably already in place before you got your freak on.
Guess I need to try a western regional next year.
How would you know all this?
My kid could barely ride over the starting gate from a dead stop at age 4' you are telling me he thatnit was ok for the class to be 4-5-6 and also the 7's that were bron after Jan 1?
Thatbjust sounds stupid.
Make a 5 and under for the PW only and do away with multi speed.
Then have your 6 and under for the cobra be the premier class.
And there is a reason here dickhead why i argue this class and that is because we don't race it anymore. Changing these classes only makes it fair for the racers that are coming behind us.
Every day i go to the track and people tell me "my kid is ama 9" and i always say so " he's ten"? And then i have to hear the long explanation......
It.s cool if ou want to argue with me and talk shit at me, check my handle and histroy thats why the fuck i come here stupid.
You're like a broken record.
Next up "The Hook Up Lottery Is Rigged"......tune number 2 on your hit parade.
Done talking to you........Have a nice life.
If a 15 year old is small, he absolutely should still be racing an 85. Same with a small 12 year old on a 65 or a small 9 year old on a 50.
Pit Row
It doesn't make any sense.
How about this scenario with a rider who will remain nameless but dc will know.
Qualifies at age 7 for the 4-6 shaft and stock class ....pw and cobra, elects to race he pw ( not sure why anyone would do that as once you can ride the cobra the pw is snooozefest) but takes 3rd overall and scores a moto win.
Doesn't qualify the following year after attendng multiple regonals....now this is not some kid off a farm, his dad owns a track that hosts a regional!!!
Why didn't he qualify?
Because he was 8 racing 9 year olds on his king......and if you never have seen the elite on the kings at a regional....i got big news for you......these are all little miature pro's at that level, the class is flying.
So clearly tis kid is good enough, fast enough prepared enough and with a commited family but he had to stay home because his class spans 3 ages....at least thatdnhow it looks to me.
But i dont want to discuss the 7-9 class because people might think i'm whining unless my kid wins.
So back to my simple solution....age class racing.......and if there is a 5 month window (march area qualifiers and august national) make it march 1st or date of the first area.
I think 2 months is a big deal in the minis especially for the riders in the cold parts of the counrty.
Also why is there a 7-8 class and a 7-9 class? What is the reason for that? Especially Since so man 7 year olds end up in the 4-6?
65 cc 7-9 stock
65cc 7-11 modified ( love this one 7 year olds need a modded 65cc to race with TWELVE year olds)
65cc 10-11 stock (one way to make it fair is ro kick out the 7 year olds on their modded out fire breathers?
Girls 12-15....really? How many will ler your 12 year old daughter gor for a walk to the poolhouse after dark with a 16 year old, probably none but you would let your 16 year old? Why? Both girls are the same age according to ama.
But the best is the YB 9-14 ( and 8 months worth of 15 year olds and then also having a YB 12-15 with 8 months worth if 16 year olds,
So if you wann change any classes....go to age classes....if your ten race ten year olds
Dont get me started on the mod classes. If no one modded the sport would be a helluva lot more affordable.
For instance, he moved out of the 50sr class at age 7and 3 months, out of the 65 sr this year at age 10 and has put over 100 hrs on his 150r. My point is if your child is progressing to the point were you have to keep challenging him, then take advantage and move on to bigger and better things. I completely agree with you that kids riding 'kings" fast is impressive, but kids riding fast and displaying true technique and form and making it to the 250 B class, and still winning championships, is very impressive. That will take many years. Not one or two years while they display skill on a 50. Entry level racing is not a standardized test for future sucess. There are way too many things that happen between the time they start and the time that it really matters.
There are many kids that I have noticed over the years that were fast and winning on 50's and 65's and now all of the sudden, they are hurt or not as competitive on the bigger bikes. The true test is when they enter the 250B and A at Loretta's.
My son was born in Dec, so he alway's aged out before many others and to add insult to injury, he was alway's the smallest. I also understand that it depends on the short and long-term goals of the families. Ours are purely long-term. And I will admit, we have never raced a national, we do however have friends that race every year and are privy to the process, second hand of course.
We are planning on racing mini o's in 2013, this will be our first but I know that he will be ready. You make a great point about modded. We race in Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, Indiana and technically, each state is a free for all. Michigan has no modification limitation, unless you protest, but even the class structure is basically open class, so I understand your frustration. At the end of the day, we have to remember that we got ourselves into a "Racket" and anyone of us can end up being the sucker along the way if we allow ourselves.
It doesn't make any sense.
First of all, take the 4 year olds out of the picture. They shouldn't be out there in the first place and very soon the age is going to be raised to 6 (due to insurance companies and The CPSC) so you won't have that class to use as an example any longer. The class will be 6 year olds only. What will then happen is there are not enough 6 and 7 year olds to make running three 50 classes for them viable and 2 of them will probably go away.
How about this scenario with a rider who will remain nameless but dc will know.
Qualifies at age 7 for the 4-6 shaft and stock class ....pw and cobra, elects to race he pw ( not sure why anyone would do that as once you can ride the cobra the pw is snooozefest) but takes 3rd overall and scores a moto win.
The kid dominated his regional on the PW going 1-1-1. He went 3-4-4 at his regional on the Cobra. I'm guessing he thought he had the best chance to win a national title in the PW class and that is why he rode it.
Doesn't qualify the following year after attendng multiple regonals....now this is not some kid off a farm, his dad owns a track that hosts a regional!!!
Why didn't he qualify?
Because he was 8 racing 9 year olds on his king......and if you never have seen the elite on the kings at a regional....i got big news for you......these are all little miature pro's at that level, the class is flying.
He attended 2 regionals, struggled in one and looked like he was injured in the other as he DNSed his last two motos. He didn't qualify because he wasn't fast enough. There are generally 10 to 15 kids who qualify in their 7 year old year for LLs in the 7-8 50 class. He just wasn't one of them that year.
So back to my simple solution....age class racing.......and if there is a 5 month window (march area qualifiers and august national) make it march 1st or date of the first area.
So you would have a classes for 4 year old 50, 5 year old 50, 6 year old 50, 7 year old 50 and 8 year old 50. Then a sep. class for 7,8,9.10, and 11 year olds on 65s. We are already up to 10 classes for just 50s and 65s and we haven't even gotten to mod classes.
There are age divisions with multiple ages in nearly every sport. My daughter ran a 5 K today and the age group was 13-19. How dare them make a group that is not fair to my 13 year old. In her swim meets each age grouping has two years worth of kids. You pay your dues the first year in most cases and excel the second year. High school football has kids from 15 to 18 playing varsity football. Wrestling has freshmen wrestling seniors. This crybaby mentality of everyone should have a chance to win is making us weak.
I think 2 months is a big deal in the minis especially for the riders in the cold parts of the counrty.
Living where it is cold sucks for a racers development. Living in Florida sucks if you want to excel at snowskiing. Living in Jamaica is not good for bobsledding. Where you live has nothing to do with your age.
For instance, he moved out of the 50sr class at age 7and 3 months, out of the 65 sr this year at age 10 and has put over 100 hrs on his 150r. My point is if your child is progressing to the point were you have to keep challenging him, then take advantage and move on to bigger and better things. I completely agree with you that kids riding 'kings" fast is impressive, but kids riding fast and displaying true technique and form and making it to the 250 B class, and still winning championships, is very impressive. That will take many years. Not one or two years while they display skill on a 50. Entry level racing is not a standardized test for future sucess. There are way too many things that happen between the time they start and the time that it really matters.
There are basically two ways you can challenge your rider. You can move him up to faster classes and stay local, or you can keep them in their class and race nationally at big events. It really depends on your goals and the size of your kid.
It is certainly not 100% necessary, but just about every kid at the top of the Amateur game dominated on 50s and 65s. There are exceptions, but not many.
For the guys out west for example, in a couple of years you will have Dubach in there, Tedder (there already) along with two others being the only guys out of the West making it in the +50. Realistically who is going to try with racing with those odds already stacked against you... Guess that's just racing.
As for the age thing.
When I raced Mt Bikes it was your age on December 31st of that year.
Would this be an option? Will this solve the problem?? Hmmm.
How about your age (for all classes) being determined by the dates of LL's, like the Vet class age is based on?
Just some ideas....
My kid started racing at 7, 1 yr in 50 sr then to 65.
Now he is on 85 going into last year of 85 Jr (next year) He will still be in 5th grade until June racing against potential 7th graders. This is unfair and NO OTHER sport does this.
Next year when he has to move up to SR, he will be in 6TH GRADE competing against potential Sophmores in High School. Show me another sport that does that.............NONE!!!!!!!!!!!
NATIONALS, day of EVENT.
We are nothing more than gate fillers at the national level but would really like to hit more if we didn't arrive with a huge disadvatage.
If you didn't plan your child's birth to fall shortly after Jan. 1st, bad on you.
All sports have a cut off date for age and typically it is the start of the season. My daughter plays U13 travel soccer and their cut off date for a season that runs through May was back on Aug 31st.
I could be sold on the age date for LLs being the date of the first qualifier, but does that extra 48 days mean that much? Many district race seasons start the first week in January. I don't see the system as being broken.
As for the 50 Senior class, the funny thing is that in a 12-15 Senior Mini class, the kids winning are almost always 12 or 13. The really good 14 and 15 year olds, for the most part, have already left the class for bigger bikes. LLs made their senior 85 class 12-14 (it used to be 12-13) two years ago. Only one out of the four winners was 14. 2 were 13 and 1 was 12. At LLs this year only 5 of the top 20 85 (top 10 in each class) riders was 14, the rest were 12-13. The large age group, despite appearances, just doesn't prove to be much of a disadvantage for the younger kids.
The entire post was fucking awesome, but this line speaks the truth. At the end of the day, you can't please everyone.
Post a reply to: Mad as hell (LL Class structure)