Calling Out Matthes

Jay LINY
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Jay LINY 11/4/2011 2:33pm
11/4/2011 2:33pm
All I know is My 5 year old 4-stroke finally blew up and it was estimated to cost between $1500 &$2000 to rebuilt.Once it was rebuilt I could probabley sell it for $2000.Theres going to be alot of blown up 4-strokes that are not worth fixing out there.
JJO741
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JJO741 11/4/2011 3:38pm
11/4/2011 3:38pm
Matthes wrote:
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. :P This argument is so dumb, why does one side have to be the devil and there is no middle ground with this. Can't you...
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Tongue

This argument is so dumb, why does one side have to be the devil and there is no middle ground with this. Can't you just be a guy that likes two-strokes, likes four-strokes and sees the good and bad in both. I did not know that a KTM 250 is 2K cheaper than the 450, I know Yamaha is only 800 bucks so that begs the question, why would ANYONE buy a YZ250 if a KTM is so much cheaper?

Anyways, my points about the maintenance are absolutely true. I have buddies that have thumpers that have last forever and I have buddies who's two-strokes blew up all the time (for different reasons). Look I was a factory mechanic for two teams and I consider myself a very average mechanic (ask anyone who I worked with!) but the manuals are incredibly exhaustive and informative on how to look after your four-stroke.

I love the technology in the new four-strokes and hated how the two-strokes were becoming the same thing year after year. But then again the people who say there isn't a great transition from an 80 to a 250F are absolutely right as well. There's good and bad points to each people.

Excuse me while I go outside now to get lynched by a bunch of people with reed cages for necklaces.
jeffro503 wrote:
[b]But then again the people who say there isn't a great transition from an 80 to a 250F are absolutely right as well.[/b] THAT! That very...
But then again the people who say there isn't a great transition from an 80 to a 250F are absolutely right as well.

THAT! That very sentence right there is the main reason why i stick up for the 2 stroke guys. Sure , I would love to have a 250 2 stroke to ride every once in a while , but I love my 450. But what Steve said right there , is exactly what I ( and a lot of other people clearly see ).....is that 125cc class should of never gone away. I think it boils down to a safety thing as well. Let a 85cc rider step up onto a 125cc machine for a year or two before handing him the controls of a 250F. I don't care what anyone says , but it seems like we always hear of kids in the middle of this transition that end up hurting themselves badly because the 259F was to fast for their own good. And heavy as hell compared to a 125cc 2 stroke.

I dunno......that one sentence says it all to me.
I am one of those kids. It took me until I was 16 to get used to a heavier and much faster 250f and I ruined my shoulder because of it. This was when 4 strokes were "the way to go". I was told that if you want to be competitive in the big bike classes you need to ride a 250f instead of a 125. Stupid decision for me but there was also a lot of influence. I have no problem with a 250f today (currently own 2) but it did affect me when I moved up from an 85cc. Couldn't agree with you more Jeffro.
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wawazat 11/4/2011 3:49pm
11/4/2011 3:49pm
Jay LINY wrote:
All I know is My 5 year old 4-stroke finally blew up and it was estimated to cost between $1500 &$2000 to rebuilt.Once it was rebuilt...
All I know is My 5 year old 4-stroke finally blew up and it was estimated to cost between $1500 &$2000 to rebuilt.Once it was rebuilt I could probabley sell it for $2000.Theres going to be alot of blown up 4-strokes that are not worth fixing out there.
I too have a blowed up bike sitting in the garage. I do have a head for it, so I need valves, piston, and cylinder. So far just doesn't seems worth fixing.
peelout
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peelout 11/4/2011 4:22pm
11/4/2011 4:22pm
what the f*ck?

The Shop

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steve_97060
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steve_97060 11/4/2011 5:13pm
11/4/2011 5:13pm Edited Date/Time 11/4/2011 8:08pm
,
jamma10
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jamma10 11/4/2011 5:16pm
11/4/2011 5:16pm
Grinning
Jay LINY
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Jay LINY 11/4/2011 5:57pm
11/4/2011 5:57pm
Jay LINY wrote:
All I know is My 5 year old 4-stroke finally blew up and it was estimated to cost between $1500 &$2000 to rebuilt.Once it was rebuilt...
All I know is My 5 year old 4-stroke finally blew up and it was estimated to cost between $1500 &$2000 to rebuilt.Once it was rebuilt I could probabley sell it for $2000.Theres going to be alot of blown up 4-strokes that are not worth fixing out there.
wawazat wrote:
I too have a blowed up bike sitting in the garage. I do have a head for it, so I need valves, piston, and cylinder. So...
I too have a blowed up bike sitting in the garage. I do have a head for it, so I need valves, piston, and cylinder. So far just doesn't seems worth fixing.
BTW that bike was a 620,and I think the guy I gave it to did actually fix it. But still. I currently own 4: 2-strokes and will never buy another 4S.
BobbyM
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BobbyM 11/4/2011 9:19pm
11/4/2011 9:19pm Edited Date/Time 11/4/2011 9:19pm
SPYGUY wrote:
Dumgeon
logic belongs in the dumgeon? where's that leave guys like you?
Flatliner
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Flatliner 11/5/2011 12:54am
11/5/2011 12:54am
Jay LINY wrote:
All I know is My 5 year old 4-stroke finally blew up and it was estimated to cost between $1500 &$2000 to rebuilt.Once it was rebuilt...
All I know is My 5 year old 4-stroke finally blew up and it was estimated to cost between $1500 &$2000 to rebuilt.Once it was rebuilt I could probabley sell it for $2000.Theres going to be alot of blown up 4-strokes that are not worth fixing out there.
wawazat wrote:
I too have a blowed up bike sitting in the garage. I do have a head for it, so I need valves, piston, and cylinder. So...
I too have a blowed up bike sitting in the garage. I do have a head for it, so I need valves, piston, and cylinder. So far just doesn't seems worth fixing.
Jay LINY wrote:
BTW that bike was a 620,and I think the guy I gave it to did actually fix it. But still. I currently own 4: 2-strokes and...
BTW that bike was a 620,and I think the guy I gave it to did actually fix it. But still. I currently own 4: 2-strokes and will never buy another 4S.
No motor, 2 or 4 stroke would last more than 5 years if it was ridden even semi regularly.
MXR
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MXR 11/5/2011 1:46am
11/5/2011 1:46am
I can't wait till my KX 450 blows up . Then I can do a KX 500 two stroke conversion .
motoarmageddon 11/5/2011 3:58am
11/5/2011 3:58am
simple fact is that you can go faster on a 450 than a 2 stroke. that is case closed IMO. its more expensive, but so what? riders already spend way too much on shit they dont need at all. anyway, 2 stroke guys I know go through clutches and top ends like crazy. i know dads who put in new clutches and top ends every month on their average ability kids 85 and 125s
miedosoracing1 11/5/2011 5:55am
11/5/2011 5:55am Edited Date/Time 11/5/2011 6:03am
motoarmageddon wrote:
simple fact is that you can go faster on a 450 than a 2 stroke. that is case closed IMO. its more expensive, but so what...
simple fact is that you can go faster on a 450 than a 2 stroke. that is case closed IMO. its more expensive, but so what? riders already spend way too much on shit they dont need at all. anyway, 2 stroke guys I know go through clutches and top ends like crazy. i know dads who put in new clutches and top ends every month on their average ability kids 85 and 125s
Funny, you didn't even use the old BS 450F vs 250 2 stroke argument. LOL. It was straight to 450F against any 2 stroke. Sorry, but it's been tested and proven multiple times, that a 500AF is faster around the track with multiple level riders. Of course I'll admit the 500 will take some rider like Larocco to man handle it for 30 minutes. Now if KTM made a new version 350SX It would be all over for the 450F. A 500 is a little much. So in fair rules, a 2 stroke beats 4 stroke in power, weight, cost, and repair. Comparing a 125 2 stroke that uses clutches, now compare that to the CRF150R in cost. Again, fair comparison. Make a 100cc CRF100R and then compare that to an 85. See how that goes, fair size compared to fair size... If a 450F is unbeatable, then why won't ProAMA make the rules open class, like in Amatuer? Just ask yourself that question.


As far as dumbgeon, this post while got crazy (which vital post EVER hasn't), taught many people about rules they didn't know about. No one else knew anything about when rules were passed that got us here. Even Matthes, an "insider" was years off, and didn't even know about the 360cc rule. No one knew that the rule for 450cc got passed through AMA congress in 2000. So it should remain, without prejudice.
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 11/5/2011 6:06am
11/5/2011 6:06am
More like around 2003. Dowd was still racing the KTM 520 in 2002.
miedosoracing1 11/5/2011 6:16am
11/5/2011 6:16am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
More like around 2003. Dowd was still racing the KTM 520 in 2002.
Please go back and read. The rule was passed through AMA back in 2000, the rule went into effect 2003.
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ATKpilot99 11/5/2011 6:33am
11/5/2011 6:33am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
More like around 2003. Dowd was still racing the KTM 520 in 2002.
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Please go back and read. The rule was passed through AMA back in 2000, the rule went into effect 2003.
Nah, not enough time to wade through all the crap. I guess it really doesn't matter anyway come to think of it.
miedosoracing1 11/5/2011 7:12am
11/5/2011 7:12am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
More like around 2003. Dowd was still racing the KTM 520 in 2002.
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Please go back and read. The rule was passed through AMA back in 2000, the rule went into effect 2003.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Nah, not enough time to wade through all the crap. I guess it really doesn't matter anyway come to think of it.
Either way, now you know.... the rest of the story.
Jay LINY
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Jay LINY 11/5/2011 9:31am
11/5/2011 9:31am
I had a KTM 380MXC----Now that was a 450 4s killer. Hey KTM bring back the 380 !

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kakarot
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kakarot 11/5/2011 11:02am
11/5/2011 11:02am
All I know is 2012 smokers are moving from crate to customer pickup with out stopping on the show room floor of my local KTM dealer,both sx and xc versions.
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Outsider 11/5/2011 11:15am
11/5/2011 11:15am
Jay LINY wrote:
I had a KTM 380MXC----Now that was a 450 4s killer. Hey KTM bring back the 380 !
I had a 360mxc... I found my XR600 a much better weapon, for me.
steve_97060
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steve_97060 11/5/2011 12:44pm
11/5/2011 12:44pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Please go back and read. The rule was passed through AMA back in 2000, the rule went into effect 2003.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Nah, not enough time to wade through all the crap. I guess it really doesn't matter anyway come to think of it.
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Either way, now you know.... the rest of the story.
which means what, aside from arguing over a year or 3..

it still is, what it is, and non stop complaining about whatever point you are trying to make will not change the facts, it's a 4 stroke world now..

no amount of pissing and moaning and clamoring for the good ol' days is going to change a damn thing..
Jay LINY
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Jay LINY 11/6/2011 12:12am
11/6/2011 12:12am
Jay LINY wrote:
I had a KTM 380MXC----Now that was a 450 4s killer. Hey KTM bring back the 380 !
Outsider wrote:
I had a 360mxc... I found my XR600 a much better weapon, for me.
Maybe on the street...I have ridden a few XR's their kinda awkward (Heavy,soft,weird ergo's etc.) But to each his own.(unless your Scott Summers) or that dude in the desert aaaa Johnny Campbel I think his name is.BTW I ment the 380 2 stroke for moto.
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Mik329 11/6/2011 5:02am
11/6/2011 5:02am
MXR wrote:
I can't wait till my KX 450 blows up . Then I can do a KX 500 two stroke conversion .
yup, I like you four stroke guys that blow up and sell for cheap. I get rolling chassis for 500 conversions that way....Cheerful
miedosoracing1 11/6/2011 6:01am
11/6/2011 6:01am Edited Date/Time 11/6/2011 6:03am
steve_97060 wrote:
which means what, aside from arguing over a year or 3.. it still is, what it is, and non stop complaining about whatever point you are...
which means what, aside from arguing over a year or 3..

it still is, what it is, and non stop complaining about whatever point you are trying to make will not change the facts, it's a 4 stroke world now..

no amount of pissing and moaning and clamoring for the good ol' days is going to change a damn thing..
You are right, it is what it is about rules. Nothing I can do about pro rules. But just letting Matthes or anyone else say non truths over and over, and comparing bikes that aren't even comparable is the right thing to do? All I did was point out many many non truths, and I am the villan. I pointed out facts and it seems to me, that no one cares about facts. They just wanna follow the "inside guys" no matter what they say. To me, it simply comes down to truth. I will not stand by when someone says things as part of an agenda. Things like that, killed the 2 stroke originally. When dealers were talking about how weedeaters weren't even being made 2 stroke anymore. How they were being outlawed etc. Just think about the fact that you would be run out of town, in the MX Pro racing industry, if you told the truth all the time. That's messed up. JMHO.

"The truth shall set you free." meaning your job in the Pro MX industry.
wow123
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wow123 11/6/2011 7:52am
11/6/2011 7:52am
Matthes wrote:
I'm starting to think some people that love 2-strokes also believe in the fact the twin towers were brought down by the government to start a...
I'm starting to think some people that love 2-strokes also believe in the fact the twin towers were brought down by the government to start a war. Some VERY huge leaps in logic here.
I'm starting to think you obviously "know it all"

What I and many others see the issue is, keeping MX what it is,
a grass roots motosport that the less wealthy have and can continue to participate in competitively.
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Shawn142 11/6/2011 8:01am
11/6/2011 8:01am
Matthes wrote:
I'm starting to think some people that love 2-strokes also believe in the fact the twin towers were brought down by the government to start a...
I'm starting to think some people that love 2-strokes also believe in the fact the twin towers were brought down by the government to start a war. Some VERY huge leaps in logic here.
wow123 wrote:
I'm starting to think you obviously "know it all" What I and many others see the issue is, keeping MX what it is, a grass roots...
I'm starting to think you obviously "know it all"

What I and many others see the issue is, keeping MX what it is,
a grass roots motosport that the less wealthy have and can continue to participate in competitively.
Well my question to that is what's stopping you? There are new 2-strokes on the market and used ones litter the earth. And I'm sorry but you're only going to shred parts and motors if your rider is a top level A/B class racer. Any decently maintained bike no matter how many strokes it has will last a pretty long time under the average dude.

A good used 4-stroke is around $4,000 and a clean used 2-stroke will run you even less. So what's the freakin' deal? Are those prices not affordable anymore? Yea, if you wanna race the pro class on a 250F it gets expensive. Raise your hand if that situation applies to you... anyone? You know 2-strokes were pretty damn expensive at the pro level too. A hopped up 125 motor and clutch had the life expectancy of 2 motos.
sec114
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sec114 11/11/2011 5:39pm
11/11/2011 5:39pm
i can say that here in north florida when i started riding again in 08 (after 11 years off) i chose a 125 that was dirt cheep (04 yz125)and sitting around , so it was still cherry condition. i knew it would be a familiar power and feel to get me back in the game safely. out of 5-6 tracks in north fl, i would usually see at most 2 other 125 and 2 250 two strokes at max. now here in 2011 those same tracks will normally have 4-6 125's, and 8-12 250 two strokes. now i know neither are huge numbers, but consider that the practice day turnouts is only 30-60 riders. point is that there r more 2 strokes out there for whatever the reason is. im a nice and respected rider here and known for helping out beginner riders or newbies; but i talk to probably 8 out of 10 2 stroke riders that show up at tracks. from the conversation i get 2 reasons; they are just coming back riding and like the familiar feel and power of a 2 stroke. but most simply tell me they went through a couple to mann 4 strokes and simple costs was their reason. i am a realistic person and have ridden friends 250 and 450 4strokes and know with half a day on a 250f i can b even faster
mcopsey
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mcopsey 11/11/2011 5:51pm
11/11/2011 5:51pm
Matthes wrote:
I'm starting to think some people that love 2-strokes also believe in the fact the twin towers were brought down by the government to start a...
I'm starting to think some people that love 2-strokes also believe in the fact the twin towers were brought down by the government to start a war. Some VERY huge leaps in logic here.
wow123 wrote:
I'm starting to think you obviously "know it all" What I and many others see the issue is, keeping MX what it is, a grass roots...
I'm starting to think you obviously "know it all"

What I and many others see the issue is, keeping MX what it is,
a grass roots motosport that the less wealthy have and can continue to participate in competitively.
You should try to build a competitive on the national level 125...just as expensive if not more, if you compare dollar for dollar.


I guess my point is you guys bitching about F's being more expensive aren't living in the real world.
bwh998
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bwh998 11/11/2011 6:13pm
11/11/2011 6:13pm Edited Date/Time 11/11/2011 6:15pm
Ya know, there's another type of engine that has to run twice the displacement and slant the rules to win, just like mx 4 strokes.





This all is very familiar:
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 11/11/2011 9:13pm
11/11/2011 9:13pm
Matthes wrote:
I'm starting to think some people that love 2-strokes also believe in the fact the twin towers were brought down by the government to start a...
I'm starting to think some people that love 2-strokes also believe in the fact the twin towers were brought down by the government to start a war. Some VERY huge leaps in logic here.
wow123 wrote:
I'm starting to think you obviously "know it all" What I and many others see the issue is, keeping MX what it is, a grass roots...
I'm starting to think you obviously "know it all"

What I and many others see the issue is, keeping MX what it is,
a grass roots motosport that the less wealthy have and can continue to participate in competitively.
mcopsey wrote:
You should try to build a competitive on the national level 125...just as expensive if not more, if you compare dollar for dollar. I guess my...
You should try to build a competitive on the national level 125...just as expensive if not more, if you compare dollar for dollar.


I guess my point is you guys bitching about F's being more expensive aren't living in the real world.
How many "national level" 125s have their actually been made during the last 5 years or so? Not too many, because it really doesn't matter how much money you put into them when they are competing at such a displacement disadvantage.

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