How is the pit bike market doing? How about entry level?

newmann
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newmann
Edited Date/Time 2/21/2012 10:53pm
Few years back it was going crazy and people were throwing tens of thousands of dollars at midget bikes like they had good sense. Were they doing it because it was fun? Or were they really that serious about it?

This leads me to wonder where the next phase of "fun" bikes could be headed. With most of the mfgs. not building anything in the motocross market that is aimed at the entry level rider, what would the response be towards a modern looking (think 2012 KTM150, actually just think KTM in general as they are probably the only mfg. that would take a stab at this) non linkage, lesser quality suspension components, lesser quality disc braked and air cooled engined motocross bike that hit the market at $3999.00? Of course it would have to make decent power and be simple to maintain so the non power valved engine would come in somewhere around 200 cc. Simple , minimalistic and a whole new market for the aftermarket mfgs. to go after with upgrades.

Back in the day when a gazillion bikes were sold every year, Yamaha had the MX line along with the YZ line. With the current crop of AMA Pro Racing / SX geared bikes being the only thing available to the buying public and the obvious fact that less and less people seem interested in a $8000.00 bike, is it time for something different?

Doesn't have to be a 2 stroke either, could be a detuned fair performing reliable as a rock air cooled 250cc thumper. With 900 lb. twin cylinder, mag wheeled, candy painted ,electric start, instrument clustered, chrome plated sport cruisers priced at 8 grand, the $3999.00 price would be realistic.
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Rudeboy119
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Rudeboy119 7/7/2011 8:34am
7/7/2011 8:34am
riding the wheels off of my KLX110 almost every evening in my yard (and perhaps a few late dusk sessions on the golf course across the street on the cartpaths) All this while my full blown YZ250 sits in the garage
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 7/7/2011 9:09am
7/7/2011 9:09am
newmann wrote:
Few years back it was going crazy and people were throwing tens of thousands of dollars at midget bikes like they had good sense. Were they...
Few years back it was going crazy and people were throwing tens of thousands of dollars at midget bikes like they had good sense. Were they doing it because it was fun? Or were they really that serious about it?

This leads me to wonder where the next phase of "fun" bikes could be headed. With most of the mfgs. not building anything in the motocross market that is aimed at the entry level rider, what would the response be towards a modern looking (think 2012 KTM150, actually just think KTM in general as they are probably the only mfg. that would take a stab at this) non linkage, lesser quality suspension components, lesser quality disc braked and air cooled engined motocross bike that hit the market at $3999.00? Of course it would have to make decent power and be simple to maintain so the non power valved engine would come in somewhere around 200 cc. Simple , minimalistic and a whole new market for the aftermarket mfgs. to go after with upgrades.

Back in the day when a gazillion bikes were sold every year, Yamaha had the MX line along with the YZ line. With the current crop of AMA Pro Racing / SX geared bikes being the only thing available to the buying public and the obvious fact that less and less people seem interested in a $8000.00 bike, is it time for something different?

Doesn't have to be a 2 stroke either, could be a detuned fair performing reliable as a rock air cooled 250cc thumper. With 900 lb. twin cylinder, mag wheeled, candy painted ,electric start, instrument clustered, chrome plated sport cruisers priced at 8 grand, the $3999.00 price would be realistic.
You just described the CRF230, and even got within $100 of the MSRP ($3,899):

stillwelding
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stillwelding 7/7/2011 9:37am
7/7/2011 9:37am
newmann wrote:
Few years back it was going crazy and people were throwing tens of thousands of dollars at midget bikes like they had good sense. Were they...
Few years back it was going crazy and people were throwing tens of thousands of dollars at midget bikes like they had good sense. Were they doing it because it was fun? Or were they really that serious about it?

This leads me to wonder where the next phase of "fun" bikes could be headed. With most of the mfgs. not building anything in the motocross market that is aimed at the entry level rider, what would the response be towards a modern looking (think 2012 KTM150, actually just think KTM in general as they are probably the only mfg. that would take a stab at this) non linkage, lesser quality suspension components, lesser quality disc braked and air cooled engined motocross bike that hit the market at $3999.00? Of course it would have to make decent power and be simple to maintain so the non power valved engine would come in somewhere around 200 cc. Simple , minimalistic and a whole new market for the aftermarket mfgs. to go after with upgrades.

Back in the day when a gazillion bikes were sold every year, Yamaha had the MX line along with the YZ line. With the current crop of AMA Pro Racing / SX geared bikes being the only thing available to the buying public and the obvious fact that less and less people seem interested in a $8000.00 bike, is it time for something different?

Doesn't have to be a 2 stroke either, could be a detuned fair performing reliable as a rock air cooled 250cc thumper. With 900 lb. twin cylinder, mag wheeled, candy painted ,electric start, instrument clustered, chrome plated sport cruisers priced at 8 grand, the $3999.00 price would be realistic.
Looks like Husqvarna wants in.





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pitbike502
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pitbike502 7/7/2011 10:24am
7/7/2011 10:24am
stillwelding wrote:
Looks like Husqvarna wants in. [img]http://static.blogo.it/motoblog/husqvarna-tc250-tc449-cr125-cr65-my-2012/big_Husqvarna4_CR65_MY_2012_01.jpg[/img] [img]http://static.blogo.it/motoblog/husqvarna-tc250-tc449-cr125-cr65-my-2012/big_Husqvarna4_CR65_MY_2012_03.jpg[/img] [img]http://static.blogo.it/motoblog/husqvarna-tc250-tc449-cr125-cr65-my-2012/big_Husqvarna4_CR65_MY_2012_18.jpg[/img]
Looks like Husqvarna wants in.





That is a bad ass 65
BK
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BK 7/7/2011 10:30am
7/7/2011 10:30am
The entry level question has been in my mind the last few weeks. My wife wants to start riding and I'm not sure what bike is gong to be best for her. She's 5'10" so I need something the size and weight of a 125 but also want a very non-aggressive motor.
newmann
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newmann 7/7/2011 10:30am
7/7/2011 10:30am
GrapeApe wrote:
You just described the CRF230, and even got within $100 of the MSRP ($3,899): [img]https://www.off-road.com/images/content/crf-230-2-1-11.jpg[/img]
You just described the CRF230, and even got within $100 of the MSRP ($3,899):

Sorry Grape, that bike doesn't qualify as an entry level motocross bike. Entry level trail bike, yes. Moto, no. Smile
Hman144 7/7/2011 10:33am
7/7/2011 10:33am
BK-

Have you looked into the KLX 140L? Great styling, enough power but not too much. Not as heavy as a CRF230F, and not as pipey as a 125.

Jus' my two cents.

H
BK
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BK 7/7/2011 10:35am
7/7/2011 10:35am
Hman144 wrote:
BK- Have you looked into the KLX 140L? Great styling, enough power but not too much. Not as heavy as a CRF230F, and not as pipey...
BK-

Have you looked into the KLX 140L? Great styling, enough power but not too much. Not as heavy as a CRF230F, and not as pipey as a 125.

Jus' my two cents.

H
No I have not but thanks for the suggestion Hman.
mom241
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mom241 7/7/2011 10:42am
7/7/2011 10:42am
Hman144 wrote:
BK- Have you looked into the KLX 140L? Great styling, enough power but not too much. Not as heavy as a CRF230F, and not as pipey...
BK-

Have you looked into the KLX 140L? Great styling, enough power but not too much. Not as heavy as a CRF230F, and not as pipey as a 125.

Jus' my two cents.

H
BK wrote:
No I have not but thanks for the suggestion Hman.
One of the models is electric start as well.
Mr. Ted 7/7/2011 10:42am
7/7/2011 10:42am
KTM105 is not a bad choice. A CRF230 is ok, I had one. Not a great suspension, mellow throttle, a bit on the heavy side and no back up kick starter. Not a great selection of upgrades if she decides she wants a little more. At 5'10" your wife can rpobably flat foot a KTM150 also, and you can detune them if necessary. Also, will it be trail and need a head light? If so, the 230 has a hard time keeping a charge with a head light on, as the stator is not strong enough to support it. Good luck!
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CRFracer117 7/7/2011 10:58am
7/7/2011 10:58am
mjskier wrote:
I'm still waiting to see this one so that I can annoy the hell out of my neighbor since he won't be able to complain to...
I'm still waiting to see this one so that I can annoy the hell out of my neighbor since he won't be able to complain to the home owner association...

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/new-bikes/2010/03/24/ktm-s-all-new-electric-bike-unveiled/
That looks sweet and all, but holy sh!t $13,000.00 thats not entry level, it just got priced out of any market, unless you like beatig the hell out of an Rolex.
mx 219
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mx 219 7/7/2011 10:59am
7/7/2011 10:59am Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 11:01am
I sold my 125 for 1900, bought my 2010 klx 110L brand new, left over for 1900 out the door...wouldnt trade that little monster for anything. Ride it around the yard once a week, has a nice sound to it, but not too loud, good power for a 110. Great bike, definitely recommend one of those to anyone.

Here is a picture of my 110 a week ago...was putting on Renthal bars and fixing a flat.

GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 7/7/2011 11:04am
7/7/2011 11:04am Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 11:11am
newmann wrote:
Sorry Grape, that bike doesn't qualify as an entry level motocross bike. Entry level trail bike, yes. Moto, no. Smile
Oh, they can moto! I took one out for a few laps at Nocona just for shits and giggles. You have to be pretty precise down-siding jumps (or better yet just don't leave the ground), but they are a blast in the corners. Trail or track if you take out a couple of 230's with friends the jackassery that ensues is priceless!

My entry level motocross bike was a 1977 XL75, headlight and all. And yes, it moto'd!
MX Culture
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MX Culture 7/7/2011 11:13am
7/7/2011 11:13am
The pit bike market is quiet right now.
Minimoto still had a good turnout at Vegas, but that is the only big race on the schedule.
There are other smaller events and series, but the guys throwing big money at their bikes is gone.
We are seeing sales go back towards the backyard riders right now.
New bike sales are slow in general across the board.
A new bike is not needed to get it going again.
Jobs and income is.
Hman144 7/7/2011 11:46am
7/7/2011 11:46am
Hey Bagger- you get lotsa flats on that 110? I must fix a flat rear on mine a couple times a year. Started running a little higher pressure to end the pinches, but then started getting torn valve stems. Bought some heavy duty tubes- we'll see if that fixes it. The next step is to add a rimlock. Who'd a thunk it?

I see you're from my neck of the woods. What part of SCPA you in?

H
Tiki
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Tiki 7/7/2011 12:04pm
7/7/2011 12:04pm
A better question would be, how is home sales and construction industry.

Can't buy $10,000 mini scooters without fleecing a few people.

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motoarmageddon 7/7/2011 12:05pm
7/7/2011 12:05pm
Rudeboy119 wrote:
riding the wheels off of my KLX110 almost every evening in my yard (and perhaps a few late dusk sessions on the golf course across the...
riding the wheels off of my KLX110 almost every evening in my yard (and perhaps a few late dusk sessions on the golf course across the street on the cartpaths) All this while my full blown YZ250 sits in the garage
what is a full blown YZ250? is it turbo or supercharged? LOL. Or do you have a pipe and reed cage..
mx 219
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mx 219 7/7/2011 12:34pm
7/7/2011 12:34pm
Hman144 wrote:
Hey Bagger- you get lotsa flats on that 110? I must fix a flat rear on mine a couple times a year. Started running a little...
Hey Bagger- you get lotsa flats on that 110? I must fix a flat rear on mine a couple times a year. Started running a little higher pressure to end the pinches, but then started getting torn valve stems. Bought some heavy duty tubes- we'll see if that fixes it. The next step is to add a rimlock. Who'd a thunk it?

I see you're from my neck of the woods. What part of SCPA you in?

H
Thats my first flat, but Ive only had the bike for a month...I got a heavy duty tube and rode it over the weekend at my familys land out by Pittsburgh. The land out there is a lot rockier and rougher and I didnt get a flat at all so Im hoping Im good now. I honestly dont know how I got the first one, I was just riding it around my yard and all the sudden it was going flat.

I live in Chambersburg btw. Theres a couple local tracks or places to ride but I work a lot so I usually ride around the yard or at my familys land on occasion.
LowPsi
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LowPsi 7/7/2011 12:35pm
7/7/2011 12:35pm
the Husky looks nice. Hydraulic clutch...it uses a Beta motor same as KTM used to
alphado
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alphado 7/7/2011 12:44pm
7/7/2011 12:44pm
110s need a rim lock in the rear wheel.
mjskier
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mjskier 7/7/2011 12:55pm
7/7/2011 12:55pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 12:56pm
BK wrote:
The entry level question has been in my mind the last few weeks. My wife wants to start riding and I'm not sure what bike is...
The entry level question has been in my mind the last few weeks. My wife wants to start riding and I'm not sure what bike is gong to be best for her. She's 5'10" so I need something the size and weight of a 125 but also want a very non-aggressive motor.
Hanging out in some trail riding forums, it looks like a lot of ladies like the GasGas Pampera.
http://www.gasgas.com/Pages/2003%27s/Pampera/pro-280-main-specs.html
Mr. Ted 7/7/2011 3:40pm
7/7/2011 3:40pm
Hman144 wrote:
Hey Bagger- you get lotsa flats on that 110? I must fix a flat rear on mine a couple times a year. Started running a little...
Hey Bagger- you get lotsa flats on that 110? I must fix a flat rear on mine a couple times a year. Started running a little higher pressure to end the pinches, but then started getting torn valve stems. Bought some heavy duty tubes- we'll see if that fixes it. The next step is to add a rimlock. Who'd a thunk it?

I see you're from my neck of the woods. What part of SCPA you in?

H
mx 219 wrote:
Thats my first flat, but Ive only had the bike for a month...I got a heavy duty tube and rode it over the weekend at my...
Thats my first flat, but Ive only had the bike for a month...I got a heavy duty tube and rode it over the weekend at my familys land out by Pittsburgh. The land out there is a lot rockier and rougher and I didnt get a flat at all so Im hoping Im good now. I honestly dont know how I got the first one, I was just riding it around my yard and all the sudden it was going flat.

I live in Chambersburg btw. Theres a couple local tracks or places to ride but I work a lot so I usually ride around the yard or at my familys land on occasion.
Chambersburg, huh? I grew up in Mercersburg, my parents still live there. Didn't know there were local tracks there. Might have to take the kids out to visit Grandma and Grandpa...
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 7/7/2011 3:49pm
7/7/2011 3:49pm
GrapeApe wrote:
You just described the CRF230, and even got within $100 of the MSRP ($3,899): [img]https://www.off-road.com/images/content/crf-230-2-1-11.jpg[/img]
You just described the CRF230, and even got within $100 of the MSRP ($3,899):

newmann wrote:
Sorry Grape, that bike doesn't qualify as an entry level motocross bike. Entry level trail bike, yes. Moto, no. Smile
That bike DOES get used at a few tracks...Uncleof2 can tell ya about a certain Gran'Pa that rides the fckn wheels off of 1 of those!

But, your point is valid.

ALL of the OEMs have MFG facilities in "Inexpensive Labor" markets: Case in point, the bike pictured is/was made in Brazil, I believe.

Kawi in Thailand, etc. The ZXs are gonna get made there startin' Next-Yr!

Here's the thing: No-one seems to care to invest in anything "New"..yet, someone like Kawi could take a stab at the KX125/200 (There IS a 200 motor from those very same cases) and knock that thing out in their Thai plant for the target price you stated. I think the last KDXs were made there...

So...

Existing 200 cc 2T or 250CC 4T engine...cheap.
Chassis based on the last "steel" KXs...cheap.
Suspension of the KLX250/300 type: 10"-11" travel w/ minimal adjustability...cheap. (Suspenion Costs are a HUGE issue)
Adapt newer plastic from existing models (KX-F)...cheap. (Jus' check out the KX65 stuff on the 110!)

Now, Green-Sticker qualifying...not so cheap; BUT! You'll sell a shit-load of units in Cali (Single bigest market) if those bikes can be ridden 365 days/yr.

A Street Legal Kawasaki 250 comes in at $3999 for the GpZ and $4999 for the KLX-S...both of which have a lot of $ invested in Electronics, Certification and Liability.

Your $3999 price is achievable...If ya can get the Unit Count/Sales...volume-metrics makes things work...or not.

Interesting.

I'd start with an older KX250F motor with "lighter-tuning" and steel valves...

But, that's jus' me.
Dozer
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Dozer 7/7/2011 7:56pm
7/7/2011 7:56pm
I have seen "vertically challenged" adults racing Honda big wheel CRF150R's in age based classes. These suckers are not slow.



I think the major surviving pitbike manufacturers actually make a decent quality bike now.
chump6784
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chump6784 7/7/2011 8:16pm
7/7/2011 8:16pm
BK wrote:
The entry level question has been in my mind the last few weeks. My wife wants to start riding and I'm not sure what bike is...
The entry level question has been in my mind the last few weeks. My wife wants to start riding and I'm not sure what bike is gong to be best for her. She's 5'10" so I need something the size and weight of a 125 but also want a very non-aggressive motor.
My wife is about 5'7 and 120 lbs and I bought her a rm 125. its her first bike but she has gotten pretty comfortable on it. she can pick it up if she drops it and the power isn't too much to scare her.all I have done to it is wind the preload right off and push the forks thru as far as the bars will let them. was toying with the idea of crf 230 or similar but she wanted to do jumps so I got the 125. She loves riding now too
burnside
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burnside 7/7/2011 8:24pm
7/7/2011 8:24pm
In the UK it is dieing on its arse from what I can see. Next big fad on two wheels will be electric bikes... once they are dialled we'll see a whole new scene and a lot of BMX/Mtb cross over.. not to mention backyard tracks.
GuyB
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GuyB 8/8/2011 3:40pm
8/8/2011 3:40pm
With some exceptions, I don't think people are throwing tons of money at pit bikes for two reasons. One, there's a lot less expendable income. Second, the influx of Chinese-made pit bikes.
newmann
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newmann 2/21/2012 7:35am
2/21/2012 7:35am
Bump.

Is it time for a bike like this again? Simple, cheap and entry level? A whole new class at the track? Give the kids something to modify and put a pipe and shocks on. Or should a $9,000.00 bike just be the norm?

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