Eli Tomac

Herr Lich
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7/21/2025 9:53pm
Dan541 wrote:
I don't know if RV was a good test rider or not. It's different than racing. He would have to want to ride a lot, for...

I don't know if RV was a good test rider or not. It's different than racing. He would have to want to ride a lot, for testing, which I don't think will interest him much. And he would need to be up to speed to test properly, which I don't think he's at.

Trey does it for a job, and wants to do it. I doubt RV wants a full time job, especially testing, they probably wouldn't pay him what he thinks he's worth lol

Herr Lich wrote:

There's no way RV would be bothered with testing and staying in shape. He's too busy attacking Juneteenth. 

OwenJakes wrote:
We just need to port you back to 2021 so you can go back to screaming at people to put a mask on. I bet life...

We just need to port you back to 2021 so you can go back to screaming at people to put a mask on. I bet life was bliss for you back then - you're tailor-made for it.

Okay, I didn't realise I was dealing with an epidemiologist. As for your weird link between calling out RV's diss of Juneteenth and COVID regulations? Maybe you should get out of your echo chamber and think for yourself. At any rate it makes sense that you have a problem with the science around athletic performance as you probably have a problem with science in general. Except when it comes to using it to describe and operate motorcycles...

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Herr Lich
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7/21/2025 9:59pm
OwenJakes wrote:

Nice AI post lol.

Herr Lich wrote:
Indeed. Thanks ChatGPT. But it doesn't change the fact that it's an accurate breakdown of the science. The references the info comes from are freely available...

Indeed. Thanks ChatGPT. But it doesn't change the fact that it's an accurate breakdown of the science. The references the info comes from are freely available if you want to look into it further. 

I'll also add that just because athletes are extending their careers and staying at the top of their game doesn't mean the physical declines aren't taking place. Take Christiano Ronaldo for example. Perhaps you've heard of him? He's 40 and still one of the top footballers in the world. But the comparison shouldn't be between him (who is the elite of the elite of the elite) and other players. It should be between him and his younger self. More specifically it should be between his younger self - with the addition of improved strategy and techniques learned from experiences - and his current self. Youth plus experience would beat age plus experience every time in sports. This is all to say that remaining at the top in sports doesn't mean the physical declines aren't taking place. They're simply being compensated for.

Science. Science. And once more...Science. 

 

OwenJakes wrote:
You keep using that word and I do not think you know what it means. Saying "science" doesnt make you right. I conduct "science" as a...

You keep using that word and I do not think you know what it means. Saying "science" doesnt make you right. I conduct "science" as a career and I can tell you first hand there's more outside "the science" than within it almost every time - especially when humans are involved. We're talking about athletic performance, not the life span of bearings in different oil types. Screaming science doesnt make you right and it dang sure doesnt mean you're interpreting the data in a meaningful way. You're the most chopped user on here you need to hop off vital and AI services for that matter.

Instead of digging yourself a hole Mr Science why don't you go and investigate the literature yourself? Find me any evidence that shows motocross and supercross athletes have better performance on a range of measures as they age. Remember it needs to take into account training levels and so on. For example, you can't test someone who's out of shape at 24 and compare them to an in shape version of themselves at 32. The relevant comparison would be them at age 24 and 32 with the same training regimen, recovery and so on. Remember, you can't use their results on the track either - for reasons I've pointed out. If you can provide some evidence - not just hearsay - I'll be happy to accept it. 

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OwenJakes
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sebree, KY, USA
7/21/2025 10:33pm
Herr Lich wrote:
Indeed. Thanks ChatGPT. But it doesn't change the fact that it's an accurate breakdown of the science. The references the info comes from are freely available...

Indeed. Thanks ChatGPT. But it doesn't change the fact that it's an accurate breakdown of the science. The references the info comes from are freely available if you want to look into it further. 

I'll also add that just because athletes are extending their careers and staying at the top of their game doesn't mean the physical declines aren't taking place. Take Christiano Ronaldo for example. Perhaps you've heard of him? He's 40 and still one of the top footballers in the world. But the comparison shouldn't be between him (who is the elite of the elite of the elite) and other players. It should be between him and his younger self. More specifically it should be between his younger self - with the addition of improved strategy and techniques learned from experiences - and his current self. Youth plus experience would beat age plus experience every time in sports. This is all to say that remaining at the top in sports doesn't mean the physical declines aren't taking place. They're simply being compensated for.

Science. Science. And once more...Science. 

 

OwenJakes wrote:
You keep using that word and I do not think you know what it means. Saying "science" doesnt make you right. I conduct "science" as a...

You keep using that word and I do not think you know what it means. Saying "science" doesnt make you right. I conduct "science" as a career and I can tell you first hand there's more outside "the science" than within it almost every time - especially when humans are involved. We're talking about athletic performance, not the life span of bearings in different oil types. Screaming science doesnt make you right and it dang sure doesnt mean you're interpreting the data in a meaningful way. You're the most chopped user on here you need to hop off vital and AI services for that matter.

Herr Lich wrote:
Instead of digging yourself a hole Mr Science why don't you go and investigate the literature yourself? Find me any evidence that shows motocross and supercross...

Instead of digging yourself a hole Mr Science why don't you go and investigate the literature yourself? Find me any evidence that shows motocross and supercross athletes have better performance on a range of measures as they age. Remember it needs to take into account training levels and so on. For example, you can't test someone who's out of shape at 24 and compare them to an in shape version of themselves at 32. The relevant comparison would be them at age 24 and 32 with the same training regimen, recovery and so on. Remember, you can't use their results on the track either - for reasons I've pointed out. If you can provide some evidence - not just hearsay - I'll be happy to accept it. 

You're fallacious in that you think this can be tested in a direct manner. I'm not being mean on purpose but you literally are just ignorant beyond help. There's no testing that can be done, therefore no "data" can be "scienced" out for you. This is why I said you have a fundamental misunderstanding of "science". The best thing you could hope for in this magical scenario you have composed is a survey of the "self reported" nature.

Wait a second - we have those! The guys will happily tell you how they're feeling. Our subject at hand (Tomac) did this multiple times pre-season and even last week with comments like "I still think I can win", "I'll be out here if I think I am capable of titles", and "I'm feeling back in the same zip code as these guys and feeling good - ready to keep improving".

I don't know how else to say it. If you wanted to compare Eli to Jett or someone else it would need to be done in a lab in a strangely controlled environment. This still will not provide any insight. This sport is an endless sea of variables, many of which cannot be controlled for. That's why this entire conversation is a waste of time.

1
kpiper
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7/23/2025 1:02pm
kpiper wrote:
I think Eli does not have the physical strength/conditioning like Chase and Jett to go that pace for the whole moto. Also, the mindset of youth...

I think Eli does not have the physical strength/conditioning like Chase and Jett to go that pace for the whole moto. Also, the mindset of youth being willing to send it. All those things come into play much more at 32 than it does at 21 or 25.

TalinH112 wrote:
Eli Tomac doesn’t have the strength and conditioning?

Eli Tomac doesn’t have the strength and conditioning? image 110

Ummm, yea, crazy to think, but I bet it is true. Why else is Eli staying with them for a while, then fading and dropping off during the moto? Chase even said they 'broke' him with the pace. 

So Eli just decided he was ok with Chase breaking him halfway through the moto? Or was he getting tired going that pace?

Lots of reasons why...but Jett and Chase's age is the biggest reason. Add in farm life, three kids, and of course, it could be true.

1

The Shop

kpiper
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7/23/2025 1:04pm
kpiper wrote:
I think Eli does not have the physical strength/conditioning like Chase and Jett to go that pace for the whole moto. Also, the mindset of youth...

I think Eli does not have the physical strength/conditioning like Chase and Jett to go that pace for the whole moto. Also, the mindset of youth being willing to send it. All those things come into play much more at 32 than it does at 21 or 25.

TalinH112 wrote:
Eli Tomac doesn’t have the strength and conditioning?

Eli Tomac doesn’t have the strength and conditioning? image 110

Mavetism wrote:
Yeah that's a crazy thing to say lmao. I agree with the mindset thing and to have the championship and winning mentality for so many years...

Yeah that's a crazy thing to say lmao. I agree with the mindset thing and to have the championship and winning mentality for so many years and to still bring it every weekend against riders that are slightly faster than you gotta be difficult, but physically wise I doubt Jett or Chase have any advantage over Eli lol.

Also I think people already forgot how Eli looked in SX early this year. Speed wise he was literally the fastest guy a times. I think his chances at winning another SX title is still there (depending on how he gels with the new bike).

Every racer knows that when they ride at 'full speed' 100%, it takes way more strength and fitness than even at 95%. That is what we are seeing with Eli vs Jett & Chase right now. 

Eli doesn't have the strength and fitness to ride at Jett's pace the whole moto. It's not because he doesn't want to or can't for a short time.

2
TalinH112
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7/23/2025 1:11pm
kpiper wrote:
I think Eli does not have the physical strength/conditioning like Chase and Jett to go that pace for the whole moto. Also, the mindset of youth...

I think Eli does not have the physical strength/conditioning like Chase and Jett to go that pace for the whole moto. Also, the mindset of youth being willing to send it. All those things come into play much more at 32 than it does at 21 or 25.

TalinH112 wrote:
Eli Tomac doesn’t have the strength and conditioning?

Eli Tomac doesn’t have the strength and conditioning? image 110

kpiper wrote:
Ummm, yea, crazy to think, but I bet it is true. Why else is Eli staying with them for a while, then fading and dropping off...

Ummm, yea, crazy to think, but I bet it is true. Why else is Eli staying with them for a while, then fading and dropping off during the moto? Chase even said they 'broke' him with the pace. 

So Eli just decided he was ok with Chase breaking him halfway through the moto? Or was he getting tired going that pace?

Lots of reasons why...but Jett and Chase's age is the biggest reason. Add in farm life, three kids, and of course, it could be true.

Age would be a factor if Tomac was Reeds age, he is not. Tomac is not lacking Physical Conditioning in the slightest, he has noted swinging wildly on setup trying to get comfortable and I think he may have found something last weekend, but it wasn’t a fountain of youth so…. 🤣

2
kpiper
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7/23/2025 1:33pm
TalinH112 wrote:
Eli Tomac doesn’t have the strength and conditioning?

Eli Tomac doesn’t have the strength and conditioning? image 110

kpiper wrote:
Ummm, yea, crazy to think, but I bet it is true. Why else is Eli staying with them for a while, then fading and dropping off...

Ummm, yea, crazy to think, but I bet it is true. Why else is Eli staying with them for a while, then fading and dropping off during the moto? Chase even said they 'broke' him with the pace. 

So Eli just decided he was ok with Chase breaking him halfway through the moto? Or was he getting tired going that pace?

Lots of reasons why...but Jett and Chase's age is the biggest reason. Add in farm life, three kids, and of course, it could be true.

TalinH112 wrote:
Age would be a factor if Tomac was Reeds age, he is not. Tomac is not lacking Physical Conditioning in the slightest, he has noted swinging...

Age would be a factor if Tomac was Reeds age, he is not. Tomac is not lacking Physical Conditioning in the slightest, he has noted swinging wildly on setup trying to get comfortable and I think he may have found something last weekend, but it wasn’t a fountain of youth so…. 🤣

So you know that Eli is as strong as Chase and Jett? How do you know this?

1
OwenJakes
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7/23/2025 2:15pm
TalinH112 wrote:
Eli Tomac doesn’t have the strength and conditioning?

Eli Tomac doesn’t have the strength and conditioning? image 110

Mavetism wrote:
Yeah that's a crazy thing to say lmao. I agree with the mindset thing and to have the championship and winning mentality for so many years...

Yeah that's a crazy thing to say lmao. I agree with the mindset thing and to have the championship and winning mentality for so many years and to still bring it every weekend against riders that are slightly faster than you gotta be difficult, but physically wise I doubt Jett or Chase have any advantage over Eli lol.

Also I think people already forgot how Eli looked in SX early this year. Speed wise he was literally the fastest guy a times. I think his chances at winning another SX title is still there (depending on how he gels with the new bike).

kpiper wrote:
Every racer knows that when they ride at 'full speed' 100%, it takes way more strength and fitness than even at 95%. That is what we...

Every racer knows that when they ride at 'full speed' 100%, it takes way more strength and fitness than even at 95%. That is what we are seeing with Eli vs Jett & Chase right now. 

Eli doesn't have the strength and fitness to ride at Jett's pace the whole moto. It's not because he doesn't want to or can't for a short time.

Hear me out - maybe it's like eli said: The bike is not all the way there and that is a contributing factor to him being able to charge for an entire moto.

I honestly think most of you guys dont even ride let alone race lol

1
3
TalinH112
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7/23/2025 2:16pm
kpiper wrote:
Ummm, yea, crazy to think, but I bet it is true. Why else is Eli staying with them for a while, then fading and dropping off...

Ummm, yea, crazy to think, but I bet it is true. Why else is Eli staying with them for a while, then fading and dropping off during the moto? Chase even said they 'broke' him with the pace. 

So Eli just decided he was ok with Chase breaking him halfway through the moto? Or was he getting tired going that pace?

Lots of reasons why...but Jett and Chase's age is the biggest reason. Add in farm life, three kids, and of course, it could be true.

TalinH112 wrote:
Age would be a factor if Tomac was Reeds age, he is not. Tomac is not lacking Physical Conditioning in the slightest, he has noted swinging...

Age would be a factor if Tomac was Reeds age, he is not. Tomac is not lacking Physical Conditioning in the slightest, he has noted swinging wildly on setup trying to get comfortable and I think he may have found something last weekend, but it wasn’t a fountain of youth so…. 🤣

kpiper wrote:

So you know that Eli is as strong as Chase and Jett? How do you know this?

I can state with confidence that Eli is as strong, if not stronger than Chase and Jett both, my evidence of this fact is the shear aggressiveness with which Eli rides his motorcycle compared to Jett and Chase. It is evident to most everyone with eye balls, that Eli is one of the fittest athletes in our sport. 

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2
skeef
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7/23/2025 2:17pm
Mavetism wrote:
Yeah that's a crazy thing to say lmao. I agree with the mindset thing and to have the championship and winning mentality for so many years...

Yeah that's a crazy thing to say lmao. I agree with the mindset thing and to have the championship and winning mentality for so many years and to still bring it every weekend against riders that are slightly faster than you gotta be difficult, but physically wise I doubt Jett or Chase have any advantage over Eli lol.

Also I think people already forgot how Eli looked in SX early this year. Speed wise he was literally the fastest guy a times. I think his chances at winning another SX title is still there (depending on how he gels with the new bike).

kpiper wrote:
Every racer knows that when they ride at 'full speed' 100%, it takes way more strength and fitness than even at 95%. That is what we...

Every racer knows that when they ride at 'full speed' 100%, it takes way more strength and fitness than even at 95%. That is what we are seeing with Eli vs Jett & Chase right now. 

Eli doesn't have the strength and fitness to ride at Jett's pace the whole moto. It's not because he doesn't want to or can't for a short time.

OwenJakes wrote:
Hear me out - maybe it's like eli said: The bike is not all the way there and that is a contributing factor to him being...

Hear me out - maybe it's like eli said: The bike is not all the way there and that is a contributing factor to him being able to charge for an entire moto.

I honestly think most of you guys dont even ride let alone race lol

You don't even race brah! lol 

You know what.. it was never about my bum knee, if my bike was better I'd be a top 40 pro honestly. 

aees
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7/23/2025 2:33pm
APLMAN99 wrote:

Are those stats at the end part of the 86.9% of statistics that are made up on the spot?

aees wrote:
It's based on actual studies. They have been around for 20 years so if you are into the sport and not just hammering on a forum...

It's based on actual studies. They have been around for 20 years so if you are into the sport and not just hammering on a forum you would know about them.

APLMAN99 wrote:

Please post those studies. They sound interesting. 

Only have a few old screenshots saved. Sure it's Googleable.

1000005481 2.jpg?VersionId=tfE0kDaUfM2DxgsH9Z3LY
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aees
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7/23/2025 2:41pm
kpiper wrote:
I think Eli does not have the physical strength/conditioning like Chase and Jett to go that pace for the whole moto. Also, the mindset of youth...

I think Eli does not have the physical strength/conditioning like Chase and Jett to go that pace for the whole moto. Also, the mindset of youth being willing to send it. All those things come into play much more at 32 than it does at 21 or 25.

TalinH112 wrote:
Eli Tomac doesn’t have the strength and conditioning?

Eli Tomac doesn’t have the strength and conditioning? image 110

kpiper wrote:
Ummm, yea, crazy to think, but I bet it is true. Why else is Eli staying with them for a while, then fading and dropping off...

Ummm, yea, crazy to think, but I bet it is true. Why else is Eli staying with them for a while, then fading and dropping off during the moto? Chase even said they 'broke' him with the pace. 

So Eli just decided he was ok with Chase breaking him halfway through the moto? Or was he getting tired going that pace?

Lots of reasons why...but Jett and Chase's age is the biggest reason. Add in farm life, three kids, and of course, it could be true.

Tomac was on a completely new base setting, something they can build on. He said they at least where in the same zip code with this setting compared to spring creek. He was the only one running the scoop tire. 

He went 3-3 on a sand track 30 sec of Jett.

I can promise you he can run 35min on a hardpacked track without getting tired.

 

zippytech
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7/23/2025 2:43pm
Mavetism wrote:
Yeah that's a crazy thing to say lmao. I agree with the mindset thing and to have the championship and winning mentality for so many years...

Yeah that's a crazy thing to say lmao. I agree with the mindset thing and to have the championship and winning mentality for so many years and to still bring it every weekend against riders that are slightly faster than you gotta be difficult, but physically wise I doubt Jett or Chase have any advantage over Eli lol.

Also I think people already forgot how Eli looked in SX early this year. Speed wise he was literally the fastest guy a times. I think his chances at winning another SX title is still there (depending on how he gels with the new bike).

kpiper wrote:
Every racer knows that when they ride at 'full speed' 100%, it takes way more strength and fitness than even at 95%. That is what we...

Every racer knows that when they ride at 'full speed' 100%, it takes way more strength and fitness than even at 95%. That is what we are seeing with Eli vs Jett & Chase right now. 

Eli doesn't have the strength and fitness to ride at Jett's pace the whole moto. It's not because he doesn't want to or can't for a short time.

OwenJakes wrote:
Hear me out - maybe it's like eli said: The bike is not all the way there and that is a contributing factor to him being...

Hear me out - maybe it's like eli said: The bike is not all the way there and that is a contributing factor to him being able to charge for an entire moto.

I honestly think most of you guys dont even ride let alone race lol

They been at this tool long for that to be the case, yes I know they are different tracks but they have the data, how can they be spot on one week and be completely off the next and it's not like they cannot just toss on what worked last setup, maybe not spot on but better than that.. I don't know just tossing that out there.

APLMAN99
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7/23/2025 2:53pm
aees wrote:
It's based on actual studies. They have been around for 20 years so if you are into the sport and not just hammering on a forum...

It's based on actual studies. They have been around for 20 years so if you are into the sport and not just hammering on a forum you would know about them.

APLMAN99 wrote:

Please post those studies. They sound interesting. 

aees wrote:
Only have a few old screenshots saved. Sure it's Googleable.

Only have a few old screenshots saved. Sure it's Googleable.

1000005481 2.jpg?VersionId=tfE0kDaUfM2DxgsH9Z3LY

Thanks! It obviously doesn't take into account football (American), hockey, basketball, etc.  It sounds like a pretty bizarre way of gathering data, also.  It reads like an orthopedic doctor who is using the most favorable method for their argument of trying to talk parents out of letting their kids get a motorcycle!  

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8571447_The_incidence_of_motoc…

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aees
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7/23/2025 2:59pm
kpiper wrote:
Every racer knows that when they ride at 'full speed' 100%, it takes way more strength and fitness than even at 95%. That is what we...

Every racer knows that when they ride at 'full speed' 100%, it takes way more strength and fitness than even at 95%. That is what we are seeing with Eli vs Jett & Chase right now. 

Eli doesn't have the strength and fitness to ride at Jett's pace the whole moto. It's not because he doesn't want to or can't for a short time.

OwenJakes wrote:
Hear me out - maybe it's like eli said: The bike is not all the way there and that is a contributing factor to him being...

Hear me out - maybe it's like eli said: The bike is not all the way there and that is a contributing factor to him being able to charge for an entire moto.

I honestly think most of you guys dont even ride let alone race lol

zippytech wrote:
They been at this tool long for that to be the case, yes I know they are different tracks but they have the data, how can...

They been at this tool long for that to be the case, yes I know they are different tracks but they have the data, how can they be spot on one week and be completely off the next and it's not like they cannot just toss on what worked last setup, maybe not spot on but better than that.. I don't know just tossing that out there.

Tomas has explained this. They are working on a new base setting to be able to go faster. It's how they evolve.

I believe he thinks some of the esrlie results where to circumstantial, specially now with Chase back. 

Otherwise he could have stayed on the setting that gave him a race win and several thirds. But apparently he doesn't think that will get it done. 

4
toomanykaws
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7/23/2025 3:31pm
Lot of vital theories out there. Sort of looks like the handling of his bike is what controls how fast he can go. Pretty doubtful he doesn’t have the strength or conditioning.
1
kpiper
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7/23/2025 5:21pm
Lot of vital theories out there. Sort of looks like the handling of his bike is what controls how fast he can go. Pretty doubtful he...
Lot of vital theories out there. Sort of looks like the handling of his bike is what controls how fast he can go. Pretty doubtful he doesn’t have the strength or conditioning.

How did Eli stay right with them for a good while then?

2
kpiper
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7/23/2025 5:24pm
TalinH112 wrote:
Age would be a factor if Tomac was Reeds age, he is not. Tomac is not lacking Physical Conditioning in the slightest, he has noted swinging...

Age would be a factor if Tomac was Reeds age, he is not. Tomac is not lacking Physical Conditioning in the slightest, he has noted swinging wildly on setup trying to get comfortable and I think he may have found something last weekend, but it wasn’t a fountain of youth so…. 🤣

kpiper wrote:

So you know that Eli is as strong as Chase and Jett? How do you know this?

TalinH112 wrote:
I can state with confidence that Eli is as strong, if not stronger than Chase and Jett both, my evidence of this fact is the shear...

I can state with confidence that Eli is as strong, if not stronger than Chase and Jett both, my evidence of this fact is the shear aggressiveness with which Eli rides his motorcycle compared to Jett and Chase. It is evident to most everyone with eye balls, that Eli is one of the fittest athletes in our sport. 

Ha, ha...you have a point there...that Eli is using more energy to go the same speed as Jett than Jett is. Ok, but that is still my point...Eli doesn't have the strength to do it for 30 plus two and that is what is required.

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Ozy
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7/23/2025 5:30pm

Maybe ET3 dropped off the leader pace because he got hit with a large rock and thought he might have broken his collarbone. this was moto 1 Could that pain have carried over to moto 2 an hour later?

1
wreckitrandy
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7/23/2025 6:04pm
clem wrote:
I'd say it was rare, now you have guys like Webb, RJ, Mookie, Barcia, J coop, Kenny amd Eli.  10 years from now this may be...

I'd say it was rare, now you have guys like Webb, RJ, Mookie, Barcia, J coop, Kenny amd Eli.  10 years from now this may be the norm and we look back at the 80's, 90's and 00's differently. 

I believe that the occurrence of more riders around 30 has more to do with the lack of competitive kids coming up to take their rides. I think it started with contingency money. People not being motivated to move up. Then you get factory support to run the "B" class. Finally move up to the pro division and make a career out of 250 supercross because you'll make more as a threat to win a regional title than to move up and finish 15th in the 450's. It's not a well thought out business model if you're trying to entice talent to the 'big show.' jmo

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