YZ250 Stock Pipe with PC R304 Combo

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11/16/2018 10:20 AM

I remember reading in a thread that a bunch of guys liked this combo, but I can't find that topic.

For those that have tried it, what are your thoughts? What did you like and dislike about the combo?

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hammerfamily_4 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

11/16/2018 10:37 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/16/2018 10:38 AM

I didn’t have the R304 but I ran the stock pipe with the FMF Titanium 2 (shorty) for awhile. Had pretty decent low end, nice midrange punch but signed off early on top. If it’s a tighter track or you can short shift it you’ll like it.

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2011 Yamaha YZ 250 -MX
1996 Yamaha Banshee 350 -Trails
1982 Chevy S10
2005 Pontiac GTO -451rwhp

11/16/2018 10:52 AM

eric513anderson wrote:

I didn’t have the R304 but I ran the stock pipe with the FMF Titanium 2 (shorty) for awhile. Had pretty decent low end, nice midrange punch but signed off early on top. If it’s a tighter track or you can short shift it you’ll like it.

Thanks man! I usually ride more in the low end/midrange area anyways so I'm definitely going to try it out!

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hammerfamily_4 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

11/16/2018 11:00 AM

I have the stock head pipe, with the PC304. In my opinion you retain the stock power characteristic but with the long PC304 silencer it helps with the over rev some compared to the stocker. It does not have as much over rev as say an FMF or PC header, but it has more down low than you would with those two aftermarket pipes.

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11/16/2018 11:16 AM

Not a fan of shorty silencers on the YZ250... makes the bike really fall flat on it’s face at high RPMs.

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11/16/2018 11:17 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/16/2018 11:18 AM

I ride it reverse at the moment. PC Works pipe and the silencer. Feels better and stronger in most places compared to stock to stock or a full PC pipe+ Silener. Never tried the stock pipe and the PC silencer, time to test it!

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11/16/2018 11:43 AM

Bidirella wrote:

I ride it reverse at the moment. PC Works pipe and the silencer. Feels better and stronger in most places compared to stock to stock or a full PC pipe+ Silener. Never tried the stock pipe and the PC silencer, time to test it!

I have a PC works pipe also, but I'm in the process of stripping the paint that the previous owner sprayed on it angry At least I have a few options to try out. I also have a hook up at FMF and can get a full FMF combo for a good price.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hammerfamily_4 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

11/16/2018 11:46 AM

I tried that combo but did not care for it. It did not like to rev out. I went back to the full Pro Circuit combo.

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11/16/2018 2:00 PM

I worked for guy in early steel frame 2000's where he still rode the 2 stroke for SX but 4 stroke out. He liked the Noleen shorties he was able to get his hands on with the stock pipe. Shorty mufflers are used for that strong low - mid hit needed in SX to clear doubles straight out of corners and the compromise is the fall off on top. You can't have everything. Jack's me off people always going for shorties thinking it makes more power or something. More noise most definitely. But for MX or general riding for most people, standard length is best for a wider spread.

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11/16/2018 2:14 PM

Experiment with removing the reed block spacer for more top-end.

I like the stock exhaust, no reed block spacer, Rad Valve, Power Wing, and 9oz. FWW. And I keep the stock gearing.

This gives the bike some bottom, lots of mid, and some top for a functional powerband.



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"Thank God my father wasn't rich."
-Hurricane

"You wouldn't take clay to Southwick, so why take sand to Red Bud?"
-DV

"I ride a two-stroke because I am Weigandt-level cheap"
-Me

11/16/2018 2:17 PM

Bry145 wrote:

Experiment with removing the reed block spacer for more top-end.

I like the stock exhaust, no reed block spacer, Rad Valve, Power Wing, and 9oz. FWW. And I keep the stock gearing.

This gives the bike some bottom, lots of mid, and some top for a functional powerband.



I have Vforce reeds already, just haven't put them in yet. I don't want to do a FWW because I don't want to lose any bottom, I'm actually looking for a little more without changing from stock gearing.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hammerfamily_4 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

11/16/2018 3:51 PM

Bry145 wrote:

Experiment with removing the reed block spacer for more top-end.

I like the stock exhaust, no reed block spacer, Rad Valve, Power Wing, and 9oz. FWW. And I keep the stock gearing.

This gives the bike some bottom, lots of mid, and some top for a functional powerband.



mattyhamz2 wrote:

I have Vforce reeds already, just haven't put them in yet. I don't want to do a FWW because I don't want to lose any bottom, I'm actually looking for a little more without changing from stock gearing.

V force is the way to go. Gives a wider spread. FMF fatties are a better low mid option than PC that tend to be more mid top orientated. Bill's pipes make very usable power too. Upping the comp ratio by shaving the head 0.5mm and running good fuel will add to your bottom end. I rode a guy's YZ with some flywheel and I liked the way it hooked up on the slippery dry hard pack I was riding. And you can always add a tooth for more bottom

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11/16/2018 4:01 PM

Bry145 wrote:

Experiment with removing the reed block spacer for more top-end.

I like the stock exhaust, no reed block spacer, Rad Valve, Power Wing, and 9oz. FWW. And I keep the stock gearing.

This gives the bike some bottom, lots of mid, and some top for a functional powerband.



mattyhamz2 wrote:

I have Vforce reeds already, just haven't put them in yet. I don't want to do a FWW because I don't want to lose any bottom, I'm actually looking for a little more without changing from stock gearing.

Underground wrote:

V force is the way to go. Gives a wider spread. FMF fatties are a better low mid option than PC that tend to be more mid top orientated. Bill's pipes make very usable power too. Upping the comp ratio by shaving the head 0.5mm and running good fuel will add to your bottom end. I rode a guy's YZ with some flywheel and I liked the way it hooked up on the slippery dry hard pack I was riding. And you can always add a tooth for more bottom

I've been trying to figure out how to get a chance to order an FMF. I bought an 03 parts bike a few months ago to help out a buddy with parts and ended up keeping the PC R304 and PC works pipe that it had.

|

2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hammerfamily_4 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

11/16/2018 4:34 PM

Underground wrote:

V force is the way to go. Gives a wider spread. FMF fatties are a better low mid option than PC that tend to be more mid top orientated. Bill's pipes make very usable power too. Upping the comp ratio by shaving the head 0.5mm and running good fuel will add to your bottom end. I rode a guy's YZ with some flywheel and I liked the way it hooked up on the slippery dry hard pack I was riding. And you can always add a tooth for more bottom

I haven't tried the V-Force but have no problems recommending the Boyesen products. For the price I believe they offer a very good value. I got a web discount as well, which was nice.

Removing the spacer should work regardless of the block used.

I like the freedom of not having to shift and using a gear a little bit further. Even with the spacer removed and a 9oz. FWW, I do not feel that any bottom end is missing. I could probably ride in 3rd gear around most of the track just like a 450 if I wanted to. But I like using second in the tight spots and lugging 4th in the high speed spots.





|

"Thank God my father wasn't rich."
-Hurricane

"You wouldn't take clay to Southwick, so why take sand to Red Bud?"
-DV

"I ride a two-stroke because I am Weigandt-level cheap"
-Me

11/16/2018 5:56 PM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I have Vforce reeds already, just haven't put them in yet. I don't want to do a FWW because I don't want to lose any bottom, I'm actually looking for a little more without changing from stock gearing.

Underground wrote:

V force is the way to go. Gives a wider spread. FMF fatties are a better low mid option than PC that tend to be more mid top orientated. Bill's pipes make very usable power too. Upping the comp ratio by shaving the head 0.5mm and running good fuel will add to your bottom end. I rode a guy's YZ with some flywheel and I liked the way it hooked up on the slippery dry hard pack I was riding. And you can always add a tooth for more bottom

Bry145 wrote:

I haven't tried the V-Force but have no problems recommending the Boyesen products. For the price I believe they offer a very good value. I got a web discount as well, which was nice.

Removing the spacer should work regardless of the block used.

I like the freedom of not having to shift and using a gear a little bit further. Even with the spacer removed and a 9oz. FWW, I do not feel that any bottom end is missing. I could probably ride in 3rd gear around most of the track just like a 450 if I wanted to. But I like using second in the tight spots and lugging 4th in the high speed spots.





That's how i ride mine 11oz fww and stock pupe n silencer. Tried other set ups this worked good for me even won a bunch of races.

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11/16/2018 7:16 PM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I have Vforce reeds already, just haven't put them in yet. I don't want to do a FWW because I don't want to lose any bottom, I'm actually looking for a little more without changing from stock gearing.

Underground wrote:

V force is the way to go. Gives a wider spread. FMF fatties are a better low mid option than PC that tend to be more mid top orientated. Bill's pipes make very usable power too. Upping the comp ratio by shaving the head 0.5mm and running good fuel will add to your bottom end. I rode a guy's YZ with some flywheel and I liked the way it hooked up on the slippery dry hard pack I was riding. And you can always add a tooth for more bottom

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I've been trying to figure out how to get a chance to order an FMF. I bought an 03 parts bike a few months ago to help out a buddy with parts and ended up keeping the PC R304 and PC works pipe that it had.

That's sounding wife determined laughing You need a cunning kit of stashed away cash. Copy
And if you have a stock pipe, give it a run with the PC muffler and see how you like that if you haven't already. They can be picked up pretty cheap too on the used market

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11/16/2018 8:56 PM

That is the exact set up I have on my 2011. The R304 really woke up the bottom and mid, but does sign off a little early.

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11/16/2018 8:58 PM

Underground wrote:

V force is the way to go. Gives a wider spread. FMF fatties are a better low mid option than PC that tend to be more mid top orientated. Bill's pipes make very usable power too. Upping the comp ratio by shaving the head 0.5mm and running good fuel will add to your bottom end. I rode a guy's YZ with some flywheel and I liked the way it hooked up on the slippery dry hard pack I was riding. And you can always add a tooth for more bottom

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I've been trying to figure out how to get a chance to order an FMF. I bought an 03 parts bike a few months ago to help out a buddy with parts and ended up keeping the PC R304 and PC works pipe that it had.

Underground wrote:

That's sounding wife determined laughing You need a cunning kit of stashed away cash. Copy
And if you have a stock pipe, give it a run with the PC muffler and see how you like that if you haven't already. They can be picked up pretty cheap too on the used market

laughing in the process of buying a house right now so money is tight! Lol
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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hammerfamily_4 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

11/16/2018 9:00 PM

Coach529 wrote:

That is the exact set up I have on my 2011. The R304 really woke up the bottom and mid, but does sign off a little early.

I’m looking for bottom to mid. Sounds like this should get me where I want to be!

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hammerfamily_4 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

11/16/2018 9:04 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/16/2018 9:05 PM

Bry145 wrote:

Experiment with removing the reed block spacer for more top-end.

I like the stock exhaust, no reed block spacer, Rad Valve, Power Wing, and 9oz. FWW. And I keep the stock gearing.

This gives the bike some bottom, lots of mid, and some top for a functional powerband.



My dyno consistently reports removing the spacer looses 1 hp from bottom to top on the yz

I continue to read people say otherwise - but havent seen anyone publish a test showing removed its better

Ill retest it next yz I have for dyno work and try to republish it- but just throwing it out there on my experience with it. Ive done somewhere around 3000 yz250 dyno pulls to date.... and tested just about everything you can name.


Curiously - most of the time a short or long pc vs pc dynos the same. Often the stock silencer dynos the same as some of the aftermarkets

Years ago after seeing this, I cut an oem silencer just before the second mount bracket turning it into a 1 mount bracket set up, redid the end cap just like oem (quite the pain in the rear)- and redynod. Got the same I had before it was cut but a lot louder sound - and road it like that for ages - people always commented how good it sounded, looked at it and at quick glance you could see the confusion on their face since it looked stock

The biggest current influence ive seen on the silencers is the outlet size. The pc and some of the fmfs have a reduced outlet that builds more heat - and helps over rev - sometimes power too a smidge.

But imho the biggest difference between the stock, long aftermarkets and shortys is the sound..

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11/16/2018 10:05 PM

Bry145 wrote:

Experiment with removing the reed block spacer for more top-end.

I like the stock exhaust, no reed block spacer, Rad Valve, Power Wing, and 9oz. FWW. And I keep the stock gearing.

This gives the bike some bottom, lots of mid, and some top for a functional powerband.



Derek Harris wrote:

My dyno consistently reports removing the spacer looses 1 hp from bottom to top on the yz

I continue to read people say otherwise - but havent seen anyone publish a test showing removed its better

Ill retest it next yz I have for dyno work and try to republish it- but just throwing it out there on my experience with it. Ive done somewhere around 3000 yz250 dyno pulls to date.... and tested just about everything you can name.


Curiously - most of the time a short or long pc vs pc dynos the same. Often the stock silencer dynos the same as some of the aftermarkets

Years ago after seeing this, I cut an oem silencer just before the second mount bracket turning it into a 1 mount bracket set up, redid the end cap just like oem (quite the pain in the rear)- and redynod. Got the same I had before it was cut but a lot louder sound - and road it like that for ages - people always commented how good it sounded, looked at it and at quick glance you could see the confusion on their face since it looked stock

The biggest current influence ive seen on the silencers is the outlet size. The pc and some of the fmfs have a reduced outlet that builds more heat - and helps over rev - sometimes power too a smidge.

But imho the biggest difference between the stock, long aftermarkets and shortys is the sound..

While I never dyno'd my bike's in the 90's, and being minimum wage, I always used to cut down my stockers to the end of the second mount which was about 2 inches usually off the end of those long units and it would wake up the hit and down low is what I would notice seat of the pants. And the sound too which got a bit barkier naturally. I believe in Australia we got the Euro mufflers too which were a little longer for noise reduction.

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11/17/2018 5:47 AM

I think people should ride with really good ear plugs when testing

They would learn a lot...

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11/17/2018 7:23 AM

Derek Harris wrote:

My dyno consistently reports removing the spacer looses 1 hp from bottom to top on the yz

I continue to read people say otherwise - but havent seen anyone publish a test showing removed its better

Ill retest it next yz I have for dyno work and try to republish it- but just throwing it out there on my experience with it. Ive done somewhere around 3000 yz250 dyno pulls to date.... and tested just about everything you can name.


Curiously - most of the time a short or long pc vs pc dynos the same. Often the stock silencer dynos the same as some of the aftermarkets

Years ago after seeing this, I cut an oem silencer just before the second mount bracket turning it into a 1 mount bracket set up, redid the end cap just like oem (quite the pain in the rear)- and redynod. Got the same I had before it was cut but a lot louder sound - and road it like that for ages - people always commented how good it sounded, looked at it and at quick glance you could see the confusion on their face since it looked stock

The biggest current influence ive seen on the silencers is the outlet size. The pc and some of the fmfs have a reduced outlet that builds more heat - and helps over rev - sometimes power too a smidge.

But imho the biggest difference between the stock, long aftermarkets and shortys is the sound..

If one removes the reed spacer and adds a Rad Valve/Power Wing, I do not see this lowering the horsepower on the dyno.

If it does, I'd rather have a more usable powerband and lose 1HP. Usable and easier to ride makes a bike more pleasurable to ride to me. I ride for fun! My racing days are over, and I'm ok with that.

Vet riders and such probably will not notice a slight loss of horsepower. And one could argue that too much power on a two-stroke will make the bike harder to ride and result in less consistent lap times.

I remember Dubach saying that Bradshaw tried a stock 250 and liked it better than his race bike that had 11 more HP. Delivery is more important than a number on the dyno.



|

"Thank God my father wasn't rich."
-Hurricane

"You wouldn't take clay to Southwick, so why take sand to Red Bud?"
-DV

"I ride a two-stroke because I am Weigandt-level cheap"
-Me

11/17/2018 7:35 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/17/2018 7:43 AM

Bry145 wrote:

If one removes the reed spacer and adds a Rad Valve/Power Wing, I do not see this lowering the horsepower on the dyno.

If it does, I'd rather have a more usable powerband and lose 1HP. Usable and easier to ride makes a bike more pleasurable to ride to me. I ride for fun! My racing days are over, and I'm ok with that.

Vet riders and such probably will not notice a slight loss of horsepower. And one could argue that too much power on a two-stroke will make the bike harder to ride and result in less consistent lap times.

I remember Dubach saying that Bradshaw tried a stock 250 and liked it better than his race bike that had 11 more HP. Delivery is more important than a number on the dyno.



Agree. A mere mortal like myself wouldn't be able to notice a 1 HP loss on the butt dyno. Owned a couple of YZ250's & preferred the stock pipe over the FMF or PC. The stocker gave it a broader rpm range vs. the FMF giving it a little more low-mid & the PC mid-top. The YZ250 engine is designed with a low-mid powerband in stock form & could use more on top as it falls flat in comparison to the RM or CR.

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Speak softly and carry a big stick.

11/17/2018 10:29 AM

I love the sound of shortys and always put them on my bikes. Never noticed it losing revs or top end with shorty vs longer silencers. Little bit louder, but not that much. Still much quieter then 4 strokes.

I say go for it. Nothing beats the sound of a well tuned two stroke with R304!

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Craigslist Roacher to YZ315 Stroker Red Bull Straight Rhythm Build Here

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11/17/2018 2:23 PM

Derek Harris wrote:

My dyno consistently reports removing the spacer looses 1 hp from bottom to top on the yz

I continue to read people say otherwise - but havent seen anyone publish a test showing removed its better

Ill retest it next yz I have for dyno work and try to republish it- but just throwing it out there on my experience with it. Ive done somewhere around 3000 yz250 dyno pulls to date.... and tested just about everything you can name.


Curiously - most of the time a short or long pc vs pc dynos the same. Often the stock silencer dynos the same as some of the aftermarkets

Years ago after seeing this, I cut an oem silencer just before the second mount bracket turning it into a 1 mount bracket set up, redid the end cap just like oem (quite the pain in the rear)- and redynod. Got the same I had before it was cut but a lot louder sound - and road it like that for ages - people always commented how good it sounded, looked at it and at quick glance you could see the confusion on their face since it looked stock

The biggest current influence ive seen on the silencers is the outlet size. The pc and some of the fmfs have a reduced outlet that builds more heat - and helps over rev - sometimes power too a smidge.

But imho the biggest difference between the stock, long aftermarkets and shortys is the sound..

Peak numbers or under the curve as well?

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11/17/2018 2:28 PM

Derek Harris wrote:

I think people should ride with really good ear plugs when testing

They would learn a lot...

And I think you're right there. And you should also know through your own experience that a good graph line doesn't equate to a fast bike. But when you test ride motorcycles as part of your job for a living, you learn feel and diagnosis through riding and tuning. I have a buddy at R&D level that will back that up, and was always amazed how I could feel the slightest changes. Take that for what you will.

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11/17/2018 2:29 PM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I have Vforce reeds already, just haven't put them in yet. I don't want to do a FWW because I don't want to lose any bottom, I'm actually looking for a little more without changing from stock gearing.

Underground wrote:

V force is the way to go. Gives a wider spread. FMF fatties are a better low mid option than PC that tend to be more mid top orientated. Bill's pipes make very usable power too. Upping the comp ratio by shaving the head 0.5mm and running good fuel will add to your bottom end. I rode a guy's YZ with some flywheel and I liked the way it hooked up on the slippery dry hard pack I was riding. And you can always add a tooth for more bottom

Bry145 wrote:

I haven't tried the V-Force but have no problems recommending the Boyesen products. For the price I believe they offer a very good value. I got a web discount as well, which was nice.

Removing the spacer should work regardless of the block used.

I like the freedom of not having to shift and using a gear a little bit further. Even with the spacer removed and a 9oz. FWW, I do not feel that any bottom end is missing. I could probably ride in 3rd gear around most of the track just like a 450 if I wanted to. But I like using second in the tight spots and lugging 4th in the high speed spots.





My experience as well.

I had the head cut, PC pipe/304, Boyseen RAD valve(no spacer) and 9oz FWW and it will tractor. It’s surprising how it will lug from idle and runs very well everywhere. Like you said it’s a 3-4 gear bike all over the track.

I went with the RAD valve because of the stock cracking boot, bought it as a “blem” from Boyseen for a great discount, I believe the blem was the sticker had a wrinkle in it. I couldn’t find any defects.

I may bump to a 51 rear, but it’s working very well 14/50.

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11/17/2018 4:28 PM

UGOTBIT wrote:

My experience as well.

I had the head cut, PC pipe/304, Boyseen RAD valve(no spacer) and 9oz FWW and it will tractor. It’s surprising how it will lug from idle and runs very well everywhere. Like you said it’s a 3-4 gear bike all over the track.

I went with the RAD valve because of the stock cracking boot, bought it as a “blem” from Boyseen for a great discount, I believe the blem was the sticker had a wrinkle in it. I couldn’t find any defects.

I may bump to a 51 rear, but it’s working very well 14/50.

I run the exact same set up minus the head cut say how much did you shave off any way may I ask? I also like Maxima K2 at 40:1 with 3oz. per gallon of Maxima Hi Test mixed up with 94 octane from Chevron.I like the full Pro Circuit combo but broke my pipe last race of the year so have been running the stocker with the 304 shorty and find it doesn't rev out near as well. If you have any really tight tracks you will like the 51 as you will never see 2nd again.

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11/17/2018 6:54 PM

Bermworm wrote:

I run the exact same set up minus the head cut say how much did you shave off any way may I ask? I also like Maxima K2 at 40:1 with 3oz. per gallon of Maxima Hi Test mixed up with 94 octane from Chevron.I like the full Pro Circuit combo but broke my pipe last race of the year so have been running the stocker with the 304 shorty and find it doesn't rev out near as well. If you have any really tight tracks you will like the 51 as you will never see 2nd again.

I can’t tell you exactly how much was removed. Kinda funny, I bought the head off egay to have it cut, when it arrived it had already been cut, and was crooked. Had Ken O’Connor Racing fix it and set the squish right around .050, runs really well. I mix 50/50 Sunoco 110 with non-ethanol 91 so right about 100 octane. 40:1 amsoil interceptor. Jetting with zook needles, bike is super easy to ride.

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