The Influencers

yak651
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7194
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8/26/2006
Location
Appleton, WI US
Fantasy
173rd
Edited Date/Time 6/24/2015 12:48am
Good article on Racer X by Weigandt
http://racerxonline.com/2015/06/18/redux-the-influencers

I know I've fallen into the practice day rider scene because of the long days/short motos. Still hit up a race or two each year to do it and see buddies I only see on race day, but local scene is pretty dead...
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scooter5002
Posts
4755
Joined
6/6/2010
Location
Nanton Alberta CA
6/22/2015 11:03am
I quit racing years ago, tired of the entire day at the track, plus travel to and from, and all the expense involved. Where I lived down east, I had access to 8 tracks, public and private, the furthest being 40 minutes away. Load up, go ride my 4 1/2 motos on my schedule, and come home. All that, in less than half a day. Home to cut the grass on Sunday by 7, and I've had a good day riding. Life is about more than being held prisoner to a bike, to subsidize someone else's pocketbook, for minimal return on your expense.

I also finally read Jody Weisel's article on "practice racers" last year some time, and he can suck it. I still throw a leg over a bike, and I'm entitled to do what ever the fuck I want with my time, and my bike.
Tpog496
Posts
1282
Joined
9/16/2014
Location
MN US
6/22/2015 11:19am
Local races in the early 2000's around here would have 800 entrants. Now 100-200.
6/22/2015 11:34am
Weegs article was spot-on. It's like he was recapping the last decade with my riding crew. From 2005-2008 we had such a large crew of VET riders/racers that we bought a domain name and had our website/message board to schedule ride/race days, benchrace, talk shit, review gear, etc.

I always chalked it up to age and attrition, but through the years out of the 20+ riders in the crew. There's me and maybe 3 guys left that still ride/race. All the rest are either special occasion 2x-3x a year trail riders, or have completely sold everything and retired. I'm still at it and ride 2-3x time a month, including REM this past Saturday. There were 6 guys in the 40 INT class.

The mtn. bike scene is hot right now in SoCal, too. Most of my outdoor "social" activity is riding the local trails with mtn. bike friends. Have you been to a Over The Hump race? Madness! Smile

I sure do miss those days of tying down 3-4 eze-ups, and lining up 6-10 450s at Glen Helen and racing the GPs, World Vets, 4-Stroke Nats, and VET Xs....

Doug
gt80rider
Posts
6273
Joined
4/19/2008
Location
Boulder, CO US
6/22/2015 11:52am
I still race 1 or 2 times a year, always locally as I hate the wait at big events. Why dont I race weekly?

1. All of my buddies have quit racing and moved on. Racing weekly years ago was always more about hangn out with my friends than taking home $6 worth of cheezy plastic.

2. The people that do race are crazy hardcore. I am tired of all the continuous bitching by them.

3. There are fewer tracks that i like around. I have always liked hilly natural terrain tracks, not flat ones with a triple after every corner. If i dont even like riding a track, there is no way i am gonna pay to race there every weekend.

And yes, a half dozen of my former racing buddies own those fuckn side by sides. I cant stand the things.

The Shop

Titan1
Posts
8958
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT US
6/22/2015 12:28pm
Off road is where its at.

His point of paying all the money, the time the travel...to ride a 10 minute practice, and two 4 lap moto's (what my local motocross series runs for all but the pro classes) then go home wishing you had more seat time.

Our local moto series is struggling ...but our local off road series is booming! Show up in the morning, the race is at noon...two or three hours later you've gotten all the riding in that day that you want.

Our local off road series runs hare and hounds, hare scrambles, GP's, and even a couple enduro's. So there is a TON of variety and something for everyone...and way less "in it for the image" bro's.
oshow
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4084
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
GA US
6/22/2015 12:37pm
All my roudy friends have settled down
FWYT
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3396
Joined
5/25/2014
Location
San Diego, CA US
6/22/2015 12:46pm Edited Date/Time 6/22/2015 12:49pm
"local races on local tracks..."

Man, I miss Carlsbad. Frank ran somewhat long practice, 7-8 lap motos and you were outta there by 2:00 at the latest.

I still race SRA at Glen Helen once a month. Ride two classes, 1.5 hours of racing, done by noon. All good. Do wish there was something closer, though.

But FOR SURE those four-hours-between-two-four-lap-motos schedules just completely suck ass. Fuck that. I'll never do one of those again.
mtl
Posts
1244
Joined
9/26/2011
Location
CA US
6/22/2015 12:49pm
I used to believe that you needed to race to get faster.

and I still do...
Grieby54
Posts
2827
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Castle Rock, CO US
6/22/2015 1:06pm
I quit racing years ago, tired of the entire day at the track, plus travel to and from, and all the expense involved. Where I lived...
I quit racing years ago, tired of the entire day at the track, plus travel to and from, and all the expense involved. Where I lived down east, I had access to 8 tracks, public and private, the furthest being 40 minutes away. Load up, go ride my 4 1/2 motos on my schedule, and come home. All that, in less than half a day. Home to cut the grass on Sunday by 7, and I've had a good day riding. Life is about more than being held prisoner to a bike, to subsidize someone else's pocketbook, for minimal return on your expense.

I also finally read Jody Weisel's article on "practice racers" last year some time, and he can suck it. I still throw a leg over a bike, and I'm entitled to do what ever the fuck I want with my time, and my bike.
Well said.

I get more moto in a $15 practice day than I do spending $80 to go racing. I still enjoy racing from time to time, but it just makes for a long and exhausting weekend.
holverson34
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320
Joined
11/27/2014
Location
Carlton, OR US
6/22/2015 1:48pm
I could be wrong but the local racing scene doesn't feel as laid back and fun as it used to be. Could be that the number of riders is about cut in half now and race fees are climbing. Id rather spend what little extra $ i have and go to practice and get more seat time. I do Still have an urge to go race every now and then tho.
pilotdude
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3762
Joined
1/12/2009
Location
Vancouver, WA US
6/22/2015 2:16pm Edited Date/Time 6/22/2015 2:18pm
I read this article and I swear it was like Weege had read my mind. I've been thinking these things for a long time, and it has affected my enthusiasm for racing. Not moto, just the racing part. I raced a Thursday Night Motocross race at PIR 2 weeks ago and that was my first race in 3 years. I raced continuously from 2003 to 2012 and before that in the 80s and 90s also. One of the reasons I think PIR Thursday Night Motocross is successful is that it is an after-work race, that in one evening per week, and doesn't eat up a huge amount of time.

I totally agree that 2 4-lap motos separated by 4 plus hours is very lame. The amount of overall seat time low and dollars/minute of seat time is very high, and as stated, it eats of a whole day. After a while it just gets old.

What if instead of 2 short motos, you had a single 30 minute moto, at a prescheduled time-say 10:30am as an example on one day, and 1:00pm on another race day, etc., with the schedule being published well in advance of race day. And if you could sign up and pay online would shorten the wait at the track even more. You could have a morning practice for the morning motos and then an afternoon practice for the afternoon motos, and maybe allow a sight lap also. Seems to me that would cut your time from a full day to a half day at the track.

Then you know when your moto is going to be, and you show up, practice (or not), race, then load up and head out. Not be held hostage ( as was mentioned) to the track schedule for the whole day.

I've gotten to the point where I'm considering selling my low hours 2013 CRF450 and buying a KTM for some off-road racing and trail riding with friends and my little guys. I've also considered just selling the whole shooting match (bikes, trailer, gear, etc.) and buying something like a used 18' Bayliner for the price of my '13, some tubes, water skis, etc. and switching over to something the whole family can enjoy, without the per event fees and costs.

The sport has certainly evolved, and I think the format at many local tracks really needs to change as well to be more rider friendly. I know the things I talked about above would certainly help draw me back to racing, versus the same old thing event after event.

Thoughts?

MxKing809
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6375
Joined
10/13/2013
Location
Big Sand Whoops, MI US
Fantasy
1535th
6/22/2015 3:28pm Edited Date/Time 6/22/2015 4:55pm
I could be wrong but the local racing scene doesn't feel as laid back and fun as it used to be. Could be that the number...
I could be wrong but the local racing scene doesn't feel as laid back and fun as it used to be. Could be that the number of riders is about cut in half now and race fees are climbing. Id rather spend what little extra $ i have and go to practice and get more seat time. I do Still have an urge to go race every now and then tho.
100% agree.... it's not that much fun anymore. My local track (Baja Acres) was my dream track as a kid. Every jump was doable on a 125 and everything was safe.... in the last 10 years it's became a SX track with ridiculously steep takeoffs, 144 footers, 95ft uphill step up triples, and the whole 9 yards. It took the fun out of it for me as a B rider feeling I had to huck semi-dangerous jumps to be competetive. I think that's a pretty general trend... everyone goes bigger and better, more air time, sicker scrubs, WFO speed doubles...... NO THANKS.

I think one of the biggest things is that the Baby boomers KIDS are out of the sport, myself included. I'll race 4-5 times a year and call it good, and like Weege said hit up practice days or private tracks on the wekend. It makes sense for me as a young professional to not risk myself getting hurt against 15 year old kids who are convinced that they're going pro.
Titan1
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8958
Joined
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Location
Lehi, UT US
6/22/2015 3:34pm
I could be wrong but the local racing scene doesn't feel as laid back and fun as it used to be. Could be that the number...
I could be wrong but the local racing scene doesn't feel as laid back and fun as it used to be. Could be that the number of riders is about cut in half now and race fees are climbing. Id rather spend what little extra $ i have and go to practice and get more seat time. I do Still have an urge to go race every now and then tho.
MxKing809 wrote:
100% agree.... it's not that much fun anymore. My local track (Baja Acres) was my dream track as a kid. Every jump was doable on a...
100% agree.... it's not that much fun anymore. My local track (Baja Acres) was my dream track as a kid. Every jump was doable on a 125 and everything was safe.... in the last 10 years it's became a SX track with ridiculously steep takeoffs, 144 footers, 95ft uphill step up triples, and the whole 9 yards. It took the fun out of it for me as a B rider feeling I had to huck semi-dangerous jumps to be competetive. I think that's a pretty general trend... everyone goes bigger and better, more air time, sicker scrubs, WFO speed doubles...... NO THANKS.

I think one of the biggest things is that the Baby boomers KIDS are out of the sport, myself included. I'll race 4-5 times a year and call it good, and like Weege said hit up practice days or private tracks on the wekend. It makes sense for me as a young professional to not risk myself getting hurt against 15 year old kids who are convinced that they're going pro.
I'm with you on the jumps. I've got 4 kids, and a mortgage...I can't stomach the big jumps on all the tracks these days.

Off road, for me, though I was very hesitant to give off road racing a try, met all of my competitive needs without needing to do all the jumps. So laid back and just fun. There is still a "danger factor" that at some level we all crave, though...
mark_swart
Posts
2432
Joined
11/2/2011
Location
Chapin, SC US
6/22/2015 3:56pm
He brings up some great points. Obviously things like noise and price are impacting the sport on the amateur side as well (yes I went there).

I love a good practice day as much as the next guy, but I could never see going to practice only. Practice riding is fun, but it seems like every time I back away, after a few rides that little something in me HAS to know where I stack up and then I start craving that feel of a gate drop.

I think as you get older, you start to see the whole sport as a hobby as opposed to just racing. So... if I'm in the garage piddling with a project bike, or practicing, or watching on TV or even chatting with the esteemed Vital collective, I feel like I can stay connected to it without necessarily being out there racing every weekend myself.

My rule of thumb on the mainland is to try and stick to tracks that are within 1.5 hours, and race maybe 8-9 times a year? But do those races prepared and with plenty of practice : ) !! Here in Hawaii it's once a month, no more, no less, all year round. It actually feels really weird when you are used to having an off season with some downtime.
ledger
Posts
3671
Joined
1/17/2013
Location
TN US
6/22/2015 4:42pm
Words from X TRACK OWNER---- I'm closing the gate and shutting down, cause the attendance has dropped every damn year since the four stroke, and I aint making any money. That's what he said.
BAMX
Posts
2858
Joined
1/22/2012
Location
Fallbrook, CA US
6/22/2015 4:59pm
Weegs article was spot-on. It's like he was recapping the last decade with my riding crew. From 2005-2008 we had such a large crew of VET...
Weegs article was spot-on. It's like he was recapping the last decade with my riding crew. From 2005-2008 we had such a large crew of VET riders/racers that we bought a domain name and had our website/message board to schedule ride/race days, benchrace, talk shit, review gear, etc.

I always chalked it up to age and attrition, but through the years out of the 20+ riders in the crew. There's me and maybe 3 guys left that still ride/race. All the rest are either special occasion 2x-3x a year trail riders, or have completely sold everything and retired. I'm still at it and ride 2-3x time a month, including REM this past Saturday. There were 6 guys in the 40 INT class.

The mtn. bike scene is hot right now in SoCal, too. Most of my outdoor "social" activity is riding the local trails with mtn. bike friends. Have you been to a Over The Hump race? Madness! Smile

I sure do miss those days of tying down 3-4 eze-ups, and lining up 6-10 450s at Glen Helen and racing the GPs, World Vets, 4-Stroke Nats, and VET Xs....

Doug
6 guys isn't bad considering it was Mammoth Vet weekend. I like REM. You get 2 practices plus 20 minute motos. I haven't left feeling like I didn't get enough riding in.
MxKing809
Posts
6375
Joined
10/13/2013
Location
Big Sand Whoops, MI US
Fantasy
1535th
6/22/2015 4:59pm Edited Date/Time 6/22/2015 4:59pm
ledger wrote:
Words from X TRACK OWNER---- I'm closing the gate and shutting down, cause the attendance has dropped every damn year since the four stroke, and I...
Words from X TRACK OWNER---- I'm closing the gate and shutting down, cause the attendance has dropped every damn year since the four stroke, and I aint making any money. That's what he said.
Not to make this into a 2-stroke / 4-stroke thread..... but a 40 foot double out of a corner used to be difficult on a 125. It had become so mundane with every C rider on a 250f hitting those jumps that tracks were forced to turn that 40 footer into a 80 foot camel back to separate riders. I honestly feel that is PART of the problem in regards to track design/safety.
MudPup545
Posts
1693
Joined
11/14/2014
Location
Imlay City, MI US
6/22/2015 5:05pm
My son made the move to the big track this year. We've done 2 races so far and WOW, what a pain in the rear. Over 20 classes, quads included. Putting in a ten hour day for 8 laps? That doesn't include the drive home and unloading. Too many classes. Too much money for so little seat time. I (we) love practice days and trail riding. More bang for the buck. And I'm still supporting local dealers by buying parts, gear, oil....etc... .
6/22/2015 5:26pm
Practice Racers are more common in areas where there are a lot of tracks open for practice. Where I'm from, there are few places to ride so race day turnout us still good.
mxdude105
Posts
628
Joined
12/5/2011
Location
MD US
6/22/2015 5:41pm
Lots of good points here. I stopped racing years ago and am what I guess Jody Weisel would call a pro practice rider, poser, wanna-be, etc. In my eyes, for the one time per month that I have the time and money to go ride, I can pay 35 bucks to ride as much and as long as I want at the practice track, or 35+ bucks for a quick practice session then two quick motos with 39 other guys, grand total of about an hour in the seat and that's stretching it. Simply not worth it to me, especially considering the minimum hour and a half distance I have to drive to legally go ride my dirtbike.
Frodad78
Posts
2160
Joined
1/11/2012
Location
TX US
6/23/2015 5:20am
Have you guys seen the Scramblecross series that Mike Kidd has been promoting?

http://www.scramblecross.com/

There are videos on their facebook page, looks like dudes on dirt bikes having a good time.

Natural Terrain , no huge hucks and 2 half hour motos. Looks like that racing is done around 1:30 or so then he rolls out a late program for ATVs and UTVs once the Bikes are done for the day.

They got rained out a bunch in the beginning of the year but I hope to catch the next one, This sounds like the answer to what everyone is complaining about. Would be cool to see it take off in other areas.
6/23/2015 5:32am
ledger wrote:
Words from X TRACK OWNER---- I'm closing the gate and shutting down, cause the attendance has dropped every damn year since the four stroke, and I...
Words from X TRACK OWNER---- I'm closing the gate and shutting down, cause the attendance has dropped every damn year since the four stroke, and I aint making any money. That's what he said.
Seems to hold true, for a lot of areas.
6/23/2015 5:43am
yak651 wrote:
Good article on Racer X by Weigandt http://racerxonline.com/2015/06/18/redux-the-influencers I know I've fallen into the practice day rider scene because of the long days/short motos. Still hit...
Good article on Racer X by Weigandt
http://racerxonline.com/2015/06/18/redux-the-influencers

I know I've fallen into the practice day rider scene because of the long days/short motos. Still hit up a race or two each year to do it and see buddies I only see on race day, but local scene is pretty dead...
Seems like more and more are saving their time and just riding bigger events where they know they won't be racing 3 people in a class.

Nothing more annoying then your class having 3-7 riders and being staggered behind 43 C riders.
6/23/2015 5:47am
I have never raced (yet) but the most discouraging thing has always been the hoops you need to jump through and the extra cost. Also, the extra risk of having people possibly taking you out. I realised I was having enough fun having a 1v1 battle with my buddies at MX parks where there is a handful of tracks and you're up against guys who you know will ride clean, have a similar skill level and there's no pressure. And those track owners didn't mind if two friends had a little battle. Even still though, we had to drive over 2 hours in any direction to find suitable tracks that had reasonable opening hours. Now that I live 2 states away, I have access to my own track but seeing as I ride by myself, it's pretty boring. And in some ways it's a little scary because if I come off and hurt myself, I might be waiting a while for help to arrive so that's always in the back of my mind.
6/23/2015 5:53am
local racing has become a shit show of rednecks trying to "get rich quick" who are doing nothing more than bleeding the life blood out of the sport. If any of you toothless assholes are reading this, go start a lawn service like the rest of your peers.

I'll give you an example. One local sanctioning body:

-Gate Fee, per head (15.. +2 if you bring your old lady)

-Charges individually for two separate pre-race practices. 15 for the first, 10 for the second. Each is 10 minutes long. (seriously, have you ever had to pay extra to ride the track a couple laps before your first fucking moto?)

-Requires AMA (publicly admits it is so each of the participating series tracks can get their AMA numbers up so they can have LLQs)

-Mandatory transponder rental, (15) but.. Still uses folding table with two teenage chicks to keep score/finishes...

-35 per class

So, if you have your AMA already, you are at 70 bucks BEFORE you register for one class. Racing two classes, bringing your old lady, and need to renew your AMA? 190 bucks before you unload your bike.

Yea, it's cheaper than racing Porsche Cup in your GT2 911. But damn...
WVUpetro2013
Posts
427
Joined
3/18/2015
Location
Hurricane, WV US
6/23/2015 6:04am
Personally I have pulled in the reigns quite a bit on doing mx races and have moved on to gnccs and gp. The reasons are as follows:
1) mx you do not get your money's worth of riding compared to woods races.
3) waiting around forever to get out on the track.
2) seems like every jump has to be sx inspired and natural layout inspired tracks are a thing of the past.
3) quads absolutely ruin the track. They basically turn the track to concrete and the jump faces get rediculous lips in them. Easily one of the most frustrations developments and makes the track unenjoyable.
EastFlorida
Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
6/23/2015 6:07am
As someone posted earlier, I've moved on to Hare Scrambles. 2 hrs. of race time and the atmosphere is more family friendly.

Everyone pitches in to help get a competitor's bike going so they can make the race.

Now that I've bought some EVO bikes - '78 YZ250's, I'll race some vintage MX...
Bruce372
Posts
6338
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
6/23/2015 6:35am
10.years ago, I lived in San Diego and raced at REM most weekends.

I strongly believe if you cloned Frank's format and tracks and put them elsewhere in the country the gates would be full.

Now in the mid west, most tracks are 2 -3 hours away, they run tons of motos so i would need to leave at 5 am, and I am more scared of driving home for 3 hours starting at 5-6pm and falling asleep than racing.

REM never had anything that was do or die either.

As for Jody, in terms of motocross, he has a privileged position, and i am sure many of us would race every weekend....but I am not sure if we were in that position that we would look down and condescending upon others that don't race because of geography, race format and moto finances.
SCAM124
Posts
167
Joined
10/7/2014
Location
Northville, MI US
Fantasy
2399th
6/23/2015 7:03am
I got 2 boys riding with me. Race days cost me HUNDREDS $$.
we are professional practicers. And I usually stick to private places.
I also run a private MX club. We practice only. It keeps it fun.
Outsider
Posts
10632
Joined
1/29/2009
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
6/23/2015 7:03am
BAMX wrote:
6 guys isn't bad considering it was Mammoth Vet weekend. I like REM. You get 2 practices plus 20 minute motos. I haven't left feeling like...
6 guys isn't bad considering it was Mammoth Vet weekend. I like REM. You get 2 practices plus 20 minute motos. I haven't left feeling like I didn't get enough riding in.
REM is awesome and I also liked SRA GP's.. do the unclassified race in the morning and then one long race for your class.. you get beat and feel like you got your money's worth.

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