Stats that define top riders

Goon126
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Goon126
If you had to rank all of the top pro riders ever (those that raced SX and MX), what would you base your rank off of?

The best career stats from top riders are based off of......

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blockhead17 6/23/2020 8:22pm
6/23/2020 8:22pm
It gets kinda complicated when you look at things like
Ryan vs Ryan I’m not sure who has the most combined wins but it’s an ongoing debate of who the better rider was.
I think RD has more but he rarely beat RV on track..
Then guys like MC and CR who don’t have a ton of outdoor wins but we’re badass SX riders.
Stews crazy amount of wins but not many titles comes to mind too.
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Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 6/23/2020 8:25pm
6/23/2020 8:25pm
I’d lean towards combined probably. In combination with total titles
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mxb2
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mxb2 6/23/2020 8:28pm
6/23/2020 8:28pm
Titles, no brainer.
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deanwhite51
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deanwhite51 6/23/2020 9:23pm
6/23/2020 9:23pm
For me..
When you look at the era of RC4,CR22 & JS7. they are all top 4 in the all time win list and all had to battle each other.
them 3 all have 40+ wins battling each other. that's crazy!

But i guess it comes down to people who changed the way of racing, each person who is considered "the best" all had massive influences on the way racing is now, as well as won titles and races.
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jorgechavez 6/24/2020 1:22am
6/24/2020 1:22am
blockhead17 wrote:
It gets kinda complicated when you look at things like Ryan vs Ryan I’m not sure who has the most combined wins but it’s an ongoing...
It gets kinda complicated when you look at things like
Ryan vs Ryan I’m not sure who has the most combined wins but it’s an ongoing debate of who the better rider was.
I think RD has more but he rarely beat RV on track..
Then guys like MC and CR who don’t have a ton of outdoor wins but we’re badass SX riders.
Stews crazy amount of wins but not many titles comes to mind too.
The whole RV vs RD debate leaves me scratching my head sometimes. Normally when comparing riders of their caliber rarely do you have years of results of them racing each other in their primes. In the case of the Ryan’s they raced each other basically their entire careers yet some people try to argue that Dungey was the better of the two despite the results clearly showing otherwise.
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Crush
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Crush 6/24/2020 1:40am
6/24/2020 1:40am
blockhead17 wrote:
It gets kinda complicated when you look at things like Ryan vs Ryan I’m not sure who has the most combined wins but it’s an ongoing...
It gets kinda complicated when you look at things like
Ryan vs Ryan I’m not sure who has the most combined wins but it’s an ongoing debate of who the better rider was.
I think RD has more but he rarely beat RV on track..
Then guys like MC and CR who don’t have a ton of outdoor wins but we’re badass SX riders.
Stews crazy amount of wins but not many titles comes to mind too.
Ryan v Ryan is not a debate.

One beat the other, and everyone else for that matter... One did his winning when the other wasn’t around.
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Dave #125
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Dave #125 6/24/2020 1:53am
6/24/2020 1:53am
Interesting subject..
I go on % of races raced and won..
Remember in the 80s there wasnt many sx rounds p yr
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Deja New
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Deja New 6/24/2020 3:38am
6/24/2020 3:38am
blockhead17 wrote:
It gets kinda complicated when you look at things like Ryan vs Ryan I’m not sure who has the most combined wins but it’s an ongoing...
It gets kinda complicated when you look at things like
Ryan vs Ryan I’m not sure who has the most combined wins but it’s an ongoing debate of who the better rider was.
I think RD has more but he rarely beat RV on track..
Then guys like MC and CR who don’t have a ton of outdoor wins but we’re badass SX riders.
Stews crazy amount of wins but not many titles comes to mind too.
Crush wrote:
Ryan v Ryan is not a debate.

One beat the other, and everyone else for that matter... One did his winning when the other wasn’t around.
That’s what the stats tell us but RD swapped to KTM and the bike was not what it is today him and Rodger had to develop it. In 2010 on a bike and Brand he knew he won 2011 he lost roger as a leader. Wounded how things would have turned out had Suzuki kept Rodger and put the effort in. Not taking anything from RV he’s amazing just a thought.
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downard254
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downard254 6/24/2020 3:55am
6/24/2020 3:55am
blockhead17 wrote:
It gets kinda complicated when you look at things like Ryan vs Ryan I’m not sure who has the most combined wins but it’s an ongoing...
It gets kinda complicated when you look at things like
Ryan vs Ryan I’m not sure who has the most combined wins but it’s an ongoing debate of who the better rider was.
I think RD has more but he rarely beat RV on track..
Then guys like MC and CR who don’t have a ton of outdoor wins but we’re badass SX riders.
Stews crazy amount of wins but not many titles comes to mind too.
Crush wrote:
Ryan v Ryan is not a debate.

One beat the other, and everyone else for that matter... One did his winning when the other wasn’t around.
Deja New wrote:
That’s what the stats tell us but RD swapped to KTM and the bike was not what it is today him and Rodger had to develop...
That’s what the stats tell us but RD swapped to KTM and the bike was not what it is today him and Rodger had to develop it. In 2010 on a bike and Brand he knew he won 2011 he lost roger as a leader. Wounded how things would have turned out had Suzuki kept Rodger and put the effort in. Not taking anything from RV he’s amazing just a thought.
Not taking anything away from RV, he was a clutch rider and a bad ass, but I agree with you. The chain derailment mechanical in SX, and the running out of fuel in the outdoors while leading the moto could have been the swing he’d had needed. If one was to argue that Dungey switching to KTM and having to develop the bike wasn’t as much of an issue, might want to think about how things changed for RV when he jumped on the 2012 model. He definitely upped his game. I feel that what it boils down to was each riders mindset. RV seemed to have the killer attack attitude and Dungey was more of a rider who simply tried to beat you with speed. If he didn’t have the speed to win that day he just took second. It was very rare to see RD make an aggressive attack move. The Millville pass on RV in 2011 is about the only one I can think of.
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mxlegend99
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mxlegend99 6/24/2020 5:26am
6/24/2020 5:26am
Personally I think setting records would be the best way to rank riders. Takes a great rider and/or great season to break records. Or multiple great seasons as RC and MC had.

.MC in my eyes was the best ever but you cant argue with RC dominating indoors and out like no one else. MC just never cared for outdoors sadly

Which for me means Bubba and Reed being high up in the wins list despite spending their best years battling each other and the GOAT is pretty impressive in itself. They could have been GOAT candidates if he never existed. If only one of these guys existed in their time they probably destroy MCs indoor records and set records impossible to ever beat. But im glad we saw them racing together. For me that was the peak of the sport
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hamncheeze
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hamncheeze 6/24/2020 9:03am
6/24/2020 9:03am Edited Date/Time 6/24/2020 9:06am
Crush wrote:
Ryan v Ryan is not a debate.

One beat the other, and everyone else for that matter... One did his winning when the other wasn’t around.
Deja New wrote:
That’s what the stats tell us but RD swapped to KTM and the bike was not what it is today him and Rodger had to develop...
That’s what the stats tell us but RD swapped to KTM and the bike was not what it is today him and Rodger had to develop it. In 2010 on a bike and Brand he knew he won 2011 he lost roger as a leader. Wounded how things would have turned out had Suzuki kept Rodger and put the effort in. Not taking anything from RV he’s amazing just a thought.
downard254 wrote:
Not taking anything away from RV, he was a clutch rider and a bad ass, but I agree with you. The chain derailment mechanical in SX...
Not taking anything away from RV, he was a clutch rider and a bad ass, but I agree with you. The chain derailment mechanical in SX, and the running out of fuel in the outdoors while leading the moto could have been the swing he’d had needed. If one was to argue that Dungey switching to KTM and having to develop the bike wasn’t as much of an issue, might want to think about how things changed for RV when he jumped on the 2012 model. He definitely upped his game. I feel that what it boils down to was each riders mindset. RV seemed to have the killer attack attitude and Dungey was more of a rider who simply tried to beat you with speed. If he didn’t have the speed to win that day he just took second. It was very rare to see RD make an aggressive attack move. The Millville pass on RV in 2011 is about the only one I can think of.
Listen to Reed talk about the Ryans on the podcast he did with Matthes last week. Pretty clear which guy he feared more on the track.

If you want to go back to 2011 SX and discuss Dungey's chain coming off, we can also discuss the stupid track design in Jacksonville that claimed RV and Stewart and cost them big points. Ifs and buts man.
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Maverick313 6/24/2020 7:13pm
6/24/2020 7:13pm
hamncheeze wrote:
Listen to Reed talk about the Ryans on the podcast he did with Matthes last week. Pretty clear which guy he feared more on the track...
Listen to Reed talk about the Ryans on the podcast he did with Matthes last week. Pretty clear which guy he feared more on the track.

If you want to go back to 2011 SX and discuss Dungey's chain coming off, we can also discuss the stupid track design in Jacksonville that claimed RV and Stewart and cost them big points. Ifs and buts man.
Maybe Reed should have feared Dungey a bit more....


Ryan Dungey…………8 Championships and 80 Wins

Chad Reed................3 Championships and 55 Wins
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nickm
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nickm 6/24/2020 7:18pm
6/24/2020 7:18pm Edited Date/Time 6/24/2020 7:20pm
hamncheeze wrote:
Listen to Reed talk about the Ryans on the podcast he did with Matthes last week. Pretty clear which guy he feared more on the track...
Listen to Reed talk about the Ryans on the podcast he did with Matthes last week. Pretty clear which guy he feared more on the track.

If you want to go back to 2011 SX and discuss Dungey's chain coming off, we can also discuss the stupid track design in Jacksonville that claimed RV and Stewart and cost them big points. Ifs and buts man.
Maverick313 wrote:
Maybe Reed should have feared Dungey a bit more....


Ryan Dungey…………8 Championships and 80 Wins

Chad Reed................3 Championships and 55 Wins
Dungey has 9 championships:
-3 x 450 outdoor
- 1 x 250 outdoor
- 4 x 450 indoor
- 1 x 250 indoor
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Maverick313 6/24/2020 7:21pm
6/24/2020 7:21pm
hamncheeze wrote:
Listen to Reed talk about the Ryans on the podcast he did with Matthes last week. Pretty clear which guy he feared more on the track...
Listen to Reed talk about the Ryans on the podcast he did with Matthes last week. Pretty clear which guy he feared more on the track.

If you want to go back to 2011 SX and discuss Dungey's chain coming off, we can also discuss the stupid track design in Jacksonville that claimed RV and Stewart and cost them big points. Ifs and buts man.
Maverick313 wrote:
Maybe Reed should have feared Dungey a bit more....


Ryan Dungey…………8 Championships and 80 Wins

Chad Reed................3 Championships and 55 Wins
nickm wrote:
Dungey has 9 championships:
-3 x 450 outdoor
- 1 x 250 outdoor
- 4 x 450 indoor
- 1 x 250 indoor
They don't normally count regional wins and titles in the all time records.


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deanwhite51
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deanwhite51 6/24/2020 9:09pm
6/24/2020 9:09pm
Maverick313 wrote:
Maybe Reed should have feared Dungey a bit more....


Ryan Dungey…………8 Championships and 80 Wins

Chad Reed................3 Championships and 55 Wins
nickm wrote:
Dungey has 9 championships:
-3 x 450 outdoor
- 1 x 250 outdoor
- 4 x 450 indoor
- 1 x 250 indoor
Maverick313 wrote:
They don't normally count regional wins and titles in the all time records.


When Dungey won his titles, Who did he have to battle?

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blockhead17 6/24/2020 9:57pm
6/24/2020 9:57pm
Maybe I am biased because I’m a Reed guy but I think Chads career is more impressive than Dungeys.
Two all time greats for sure
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bents
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bents 6/24/2020 10:02pm
6/24/2020 10:02pm
You cannot judge titles by who battled who-that is a no win argument. Titles are the measuring stick, period. Then MX and SX wins.
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devotid 6/24/2020 10:19pm
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Crush
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Crush 6/25/2020 4:09am
6/25/2020 4:09am
bents wrote:
You cannot judge titles by who battled who-that is a no win argument. Titles are the measuring stick, period. Then MX and SX wins.
But if they rode against each other it’s pretty clear cut.

I love Chad, and I might even take his career over James, because of everything, but James was better, and their premier class stats are pretty damn similar.
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mxb2 6/25/2020 7:01am
6/25/2020 7:01am
blockhead17 wrote:
Maybe I am biased because I’m a Reed guy but I think Chads career is more impressive than Dungeys.
Two all time greats for sure
Both badazz dudes,. Dungey 8 titles. though. He cant control who he raced against.
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Forty
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Forty 6/25/2020 7:13am
6/25/2020 7:13am Edited Date/Time 6/25/2020 9:02am
nickm wrote:
Dungey has 9 championships:
-3 x 450 outdoor
- 1 x 250 outdoor
- 4 x 450 indoor
- 1 x 250 indoor
Maverick313 wrote:
They don't normally count regional wins and titles in the all time records.


deanwhite51 wrote:
When Dungey won his titles, Who did he have to battle?

#3 He had to battle this group of wannabees in 2017sx.
#25
#21
#18*
#4
#14*
#15
#22
#33*
#10
#2
#12*
#27
#51
#94
#41*

*Retired
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mark_swart
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mark_swart 6/25/2020 7:14am
6/25/2020 7:14am
I think the other piece of that if you are looking at true legend status is titles indoors and out in the premier class. That's why this SX title was so important to Eli's legacy, it filled in that gap. When you look at guys who only have titles from one discipline, they don't really get the same level of respect IMO.
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Maverick313 6/25/2020 6:10pm
6/25/2020 6:10pm
nickm wrote:
Dungey has 9 championships:
-3 x 450 outdoor
- 1 x 250 outdoor
- 4 x 450 indoor
- 1 x 250 indoor
Maverick313 wrote:
They don't normally count regional wins and titles in the all time records.


deanwhite51 wrote:
When Dungey won his titles, Who did he have to battle?

Just to name a few.

Roczen
Tomac
Musquin
Anderson
Webb
Villopoto
Windham
Reed
Stewart
Barcia
Baggett
Millsaps
Canard
Porcell
3
huckabuck
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huckabuck 6/25/2020 6:33pm
6/25/2020 6:33pm
If RV never retired, would RD have had the career he did? The answer is no.
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Park Boys 6/25/2020 6:56pm
6/25/2020 6:56pm
Deja New wrote:
That’s what the stats tell us but RD swapped to KTM and the bike was not what it is today him and Rodger had to develop...
That’s what the stats tell us but RD swapped to KTM and the bike was not what it is today him and Rodger had to develop it. In 2010 on a bike and Brand he knew he won 2011 he lost roger as a leader. Wounded how things would have turned out had Suzuki kept Rodger and put the effort in. Not taking anything from RV he’s amazing just a thought.
downard254 wrote:
Not taking anything away from RV, he was a clutch rider and a bad ass, but I agree with you. The chain derailment mechanical in SX...
Not taking anything away from RV, he was a clutch rider and a bad ass, but I agree with you. The chain derailment mechanical in SX, and the running out of fuel in the outdoors while leading the moto could have been the swing he’d had needed. If one was to argue that Dungey switching to KTM and having to develop the bike wasn’t as much of an issue, might want to think about how things changed for RV when he jumped on the 2012 model. He definitely upped his game. I feel that what it boils down to was each riders mindset. RV seemed to have the killer attack attitude and Dungey was more of a rider who simply tried to beat you with speed. If he didn’t have the speed to win that day he just took second. It was very rare to see RD make an aggressive attack move. The Millville pass on RV in 2011 is about the only one I can think of.
hamncheeze wrote:
Listen to Reed talk about the Ryans on the podcast he did with Matthes last week. Pretty clear which guy he feared more on the track...
Listen to Reed talk about the Ryans on the podcast he did with Matthes last week. Pretty clear which guy he feared more on the track.

If you want to go back to 2011 SX and discuss Dungey's chain coming off, we can also discuss the stupid track design in Jacksonville that claimed RV and Stewart and cost them big points. Ifs and buts man.
Crashing out of the race like Stew did and not qualifying are rider mistakes, a chain derailment is not a rider fault.

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