MAG Files for Chapter 11

Talked to some guys there last night. Good part, it won't affect Answer, Pro Taper or anything I know of in moto for current contracts or employees. Everything they're committed to is going forward, just a restructuring of debt for them.

This in a red hot economy. Ouch.

I thought this was going to be about MAGA.

How much ballin' did it take to dig that hole?

ML512 wrote:

Talked to some guys there last night. Good part, it won't affect Answer, Pro Taper or anything I know of in moto for current contracts or employees. Everything they're committed to is going forward, just a restructuring of debt for them.

It is impossible for those guys telling you what they told you to know what’s gonna happen. In a chapter 11 all of the creditors will dictate what they do. The creditors will want most of the contracts they consider wasteful canceled to save the cash before they take a hit on the debt they are giving up. Chapter 11s are filed to get out of contracts without penalty, to cut debt they owe and to spin off unprofitable ventures, not just to “restructure debt”. Chapter 11s are filed when companies see they are in a death spiral and that is their last resort.

cannondale filed chapter 11 and i had 25 of the sweet hearts, it aint gonna be good, and i aint bitter

ML512 wrote:

Talked to some guys there last night. Good part, it won't affect Answer, Pro Taper or anything I know of in moto for current contracts or employees. Everything they're committed to is going forward, just a restructuring of debt for them.

kkawboy14 wrote:

It is impossible for those guys telling you what they told you to know what’s gonna happen. In a chapter 11 all of the creditors will dictate what they do. The creditors will want most of the contracts they consider wasteful canceled to save the cash before they take a hit on the debt they are giving up. Chapter 11s are filed to get out of contracts without penalty, to cut debt they owe and to spin off unprofitable ventures, not just to “restructure debt”. Chapter 11s are filed when companies see they are in a death spiral and that is their last resort.

Just passing on the info man.

Dam in this economy? my bank just called me twice to congratulate me on making 18 percent this year. I need to look into these chapters you speak of.

Didn't MAG buy White Industries from Tom White a few years ago?

robkinuk wrote:

Didn't MAG buy White Industries from Tom White a few years ago?

yep, and JT, and original Malcolm Smith distributing..............fucked up every one of them trying to turn them into something they weren't and all of them closed doors

ML512 wrote:

Talked to some guys there last night. Good part, it won't affect Answer, Pro Taper or anything I know of in moto for current contracts or employees. Everything they're committed to is going forward, just a restructuring of debt for them.

kkawboy14 wrote:

It is impossible for those guys telling you what they told you to know what’s gonna happen. In a chapter 11 all of the creditors will dictate what they do. The creditors will want most of the contracts they consider wasteful canceled to save the cash before they take a hit on the debt they are giving up. Chapter 11s are filed to get out of contracts without penalty, to cut debt they owe and to spin off unprofitable ventures, not just to “restructure debt”. Chapter 11s are filed when companies see they are in a death spiral and that is their last resort.

ML512 wrote:

Just passing on the info man.

I was just passing on the info also. I’m not angry and I don’t know them!

pete24 wrote:

cannondale filed chapter 11 and i had 25 of the sweet hearts, it aint gonna be good, and i aint bitter

When did Cannondale file Chapter 11?

FLmxer wrote:

Dam in this economy? my bank just called me twice to congratulate me on making 18 percent this year. I need to look into these chapters you speak of.

Trump has messed up everything, haven’t you been paying attention?

kkawboy14 wrote:

Trump has messed up everything, haven’t you been paying attention?

We don’t do politics in here, or non-moto.

FLmxer wrote:

Dam in this economy? my bank just called me twice to congratulate me on making 18 percent this year. I need to look into these chapters you speak of.

kkawboy14 wrote:

Trump has messed up everything, haven’t you been paying attention?

GuyB wrote:

We don’t do politics in here, or non-moto.

It wasn’t politics it was a joke.....sorry it was in bad taste! For the record I don’t vote!

FLmxer wrote:

Dam in this economy? my bank just called me twice to congratulate me on making 18 percent this year. I need to look into these chapters you speak of.

kkawboy14 wrote:

Trump has messed up everything, haven’t you been paying attention?

GuyB wrote:

We don’t do politics in here, or non-moto.

Is this post considered non-moto?

I wonder what caused this fiscal imbalance...

From what I understand this started several years ago and do in no small part to some serious mis-management. So the comment,"In this econmoy." is irrelevant because this was a product of the MAG groups inability to maximize a growing (albeit at a slow pace) economy.

.

I was the the rider support guy at WB 06-07 when they focused on the amatuer scene. It was right after MAG took over. Lots of bad business moves and questionable mangement by MAG in my opinion. When MAG shut down the distribution side and only pushed our branded products the shit hit the fan. Other quality control issues on our pipes certainly didn't help either. Up side was l got to go to all the big amateur races that year since l drove the rig too. I also got meet Tom W a few times although he wasn't all that fond of the "new" guys but he was always super cool. Almost eveyone who worked there were great guys and it sucks it ended the way it did. The brand deserved better.

Glad to see it frankly, f MAG.

When I was a rep they bought White Bros/Alloy/Sunline/SixSixOne just so that they could get their hands on some pos Harley product line. Subsequently MAG killed the other brands with zero consideration for the inherent value or our book of business. MAG is representative of the type of Wall Street mentality that is killing this country. I hope that the brands that are part of their holding company are able to spin off and stand on their own legs.

I was told that Tucker Rocky will remain to do business with no interruption. I was bummed when Renthal was purchased by mag. Our dealer discount went to crap.

These type of investor groups are almost always death to the original business.

They come in, knowing very little to nothing about the original company's vision that made them successful, and have accountants run the numbers to see how many employees can be eliminated. Once all of the existing knowledge (those employees) are gone and the numbers fail to match the bean counter projections they start selling off "unprofitable" parts of the business. When that doesn't make the numbers work, they cook the books long enough to sell to another investor group that consolidates the businesses even further. When that fails, they rinse and repeat until it finally ends up like this, in Chapter 11.

All it leaves behind is the destroyed employees who showed up every day with good intentions of making the company successful and building a better life for their families. We've been in this cycle since the mid-80's in the U.S. It makes the stock market climb so it won't stop.

Amazing what happens when you remove the passion that built it and replace it with greed.

ML512 wrote:

Talked to some guys there last night. Good part, it won't affect Answer, Pro Taper or anything I know of in moto for current contracts or employees. Everything they're committed to is going forward, just a restructuring of debt for them.

restructuring debt is when simple terms are changed. This is more like 'we owe you XXX and we're only going to pay you X'. It's reneging on debt not restructuring it.

Big deal, I just finished chapter 1 of my first book.

That article is written pretty well. This part stuck out to me, in a "doesn't look good" way:

In order to finance these companies through their bankruptcy proceedings, MAG has negotiated $135 million in what is called debtor-in-possession (DIP) financing.

DIP financing is money lent to a company pre-bankruptcy, and is typically used to continue normal business operations while the bankruptcy works its way through the legal system.

It should be noted that usually DIP loans like this are given with very strict provisions on how the money can be used. It is important to note too that DIP financing is debt that is senior to any other debt, that is to say, it must be paid back first during any refinancing or bankruptcy arrangement.

This is kind of like flunking out of college with a bunch of student debt, then running up a bunch of credit card debt to take a vacation to "find yourself".

A lot of changes for the worse are likely ahead for those that work for and deal with those companies.

While the investment groups might have altered the "vision" of the original companies, I don't know if you can assign 100% of the blame to just that. There was this nugget in that article also:

Asphalt & Rubber is predicting an industry contraction of roughly 7% for 2017 in the USA, which is noticeable after the relatively flat past years of 2015 and 2016.

This looks like a canary in the coal mine.

DavetheVintageGuy wrote:

These type of investor groups are almost always death to the original business.

They come in, knowing very little to nothing about the original company's vision that made them successful, and have accountants run the numbers to see how many employees can be eliminated. Once all of the existing knowledge (those employees) are gone and the numbers fail to match the bean counter projections they start selling off "unprofitable" parts of the business. When that doesn't make the numbers work, they cook the books long enough to sell to another investor group that consolidates the businesses even further. When that fails, they rinse and repeat until it finally ends up like this, in Chapter 11.

All it leaves behind is the destroyed employees who showed up every day with good intentions of making the company successful and building a better life for their families. We've been in this cycle since the mid-80's in the U.S. It makes the stock market climb so it won't stop.

Yup. That's what happened. Unfortunately a lot of valuable people now have their livelihood in jeopardy because of greed. I thought they might limp through the Holiday season before they pulled the plug but I guess even that wasn't possible. The slowdown in the motorcycle industry didn't help but is not the reason for this situation. Some of these companies actually weathered the Great Recession quite well, it was all about mis-management and bad business decisions.

Johnny Depp wrote:

This in a red hot economy. Ouch.

I thought this was going to be about MAGA.

Economy ain't doing as great as we're pretending, it's on a downfall. My work, my mom's work, and a friend's work are all going through layoffs. Granted my company is changing directions, profits are great. But still.

newmann wrote:

Amazing what happens when you remove the passion that built it and replace it with greed.

So, so true.

Wonder if the ex-owners of TR will take it back? You can bet they did not complete the buying process with them so.....

LOL I worked at Ed Tucker that became Tucker that became Tucker Rocky.