500AF For Sale

AJ
Posts
933
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Lowell, IN, USA
3/15/2011 10:56pm Edited Date/Time 3/15/2011 11:00pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
I can't speak for this particular example but I assure you that SH are not the only people capable of properly welding on an aluminum dirt...
I can't speak for this particular example but I assure you that SH are not the only people capable of properly welding on an aluminum dirt bike frame.

My buddy (for example) built several that as an overall package are well above the average SH unit in terms of overall componentry. One of them in fact survived an 80' spear right into a peaky triple last month. Rider is mangled. however the AF500 bike and frame is fine although the expansion chamber looks like a pancake now.
Shhhhh. Don't let the people that paid too much for their over priced SH hear that.
panic revver.

It's all good if people want to build one !!.. its a cool bike and i like to see as many as possible out there.!!!
awesome!

That said i get "internet" grief about *pricing* often. lol Smile

Now certainly i understand you don't need all new parts, and can make a used bike for less !!
So using a used or rebuilt engine ,or chassis ..should naturally be less.
I could do that as well?

Its just my general choice not to.If i built pools ,or TVs, I'd build new ones ,not used ones.
but nothing would be wrong with a used one.

Likewise, I build new motorcycles,
some people prefer to buy a brand new bike, to have that confidence in it,and the continued product support of a long established dealer. and to know its good resale value as well..

So when putting out comparisons of overpriced , to some used or refurbished bike , lets be real? and keep it fair.....

Anyone building one from the ground up from all brand new parts,, new engine , pipes made specifically for the model..
is going to be in for a shock.
Find one example of anyone selling a new converted bike into a 500,, , post a link, i'll conceed I'm over priced. Wink
fair enough?

when the KTM530 is 8 or 9 k,,
then of course a customized, open class bike ,made by a dealership ordering in all new OEM parts..made to the customers order, is naturally going to be bit more. The bikes price simply reflects the cost to build one ,new.
The costs of every CR500 engine part to assemble a new engine , (more than some bikes)
the cost of the new CRF, the cost of the machined parts ,the carb ,the pipe, the electrics, the labor, etc
I do this far more from a passion for it ...Itake it quite seriously and try to provide
riders with another new model and option , at the lowest price possible for me to reasonably do so.

Customers truly interested in a specialty bike understand that..

Takes nothing at all away from someone wanting to do all the work themselves with used parts,, or from someone wanting to buy a good used bike, but it should cost less, right?

A used CRF250R , a year, or several model years older, (regardles its condition or being refurbished)
costs less in my area , than a new 2011 CRF250R..
I accept that as pretty normal..
my guess is that's generally true most everywhere.
wardy
Posts
1794
Joined
3/31/2008
Location
USA
3/15/2011 11:28pm
sad that it has to be explain about what 5 times a year?
Moto619
Posts
258
Joined
10/17/2010
Location
Wollongong NSW, AU
3/16/2011 3:51am
Hey AJ are you guys at Service Honda going to start doing conversions in a 2010 model frame in the future? Your bikes are nicely done but bit of a pipe dream as no one imports them to Australia.
yota
Posts
1421
Joined
6/23/2008
Location
Crystal River, FL, USA
3/16/2011 5:44am Edited Date/Time 3/16/2011 5:48am
TerryK wrote:
AJ uses the CRF250 chassis and his welds are perfect. That weld pictured is absolute shit. The guy even used a grinder on it! GASP!!!
yota wrote:
hardly perfect but better than they used to be.
TerryK wrote:
Seriously? If I paid a guy to weld my frame and it looked like that I would kick his ass all the way back to welding...
Seriously? If I paid a guy to weld my frame and it looked like that I would kick his ass all the way back to welding school. I can weld better than that and I'm not a welder by any stretch. And the grinding makes? Wtf is up with that? You shouldn't have to touch a good weld with a grinder. Period.
I was talking about Service Honda's welds, not the one in the craigslist ad. there are some Service Hondas that have not so pretty welds. The last 3 I have personally seen looked good.
not as nice as the one's on my bike though (: (not my welding). maybe read the quote a little more carefully.

The Shop

AJ
Posts
933
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Lowell, IN, USA
3/16/2011 6:56am
Moto619 wrote:
Hey AJ are you guys at Service Honda going to start doing conversions in a 2010 model frame in the future? Your bikes are nicely done...
Hey AJ are you guys at Service Honda going to start doing conversions in a 2010 model frame in the future? Your bikes are nicely done but bit of a pipe dream as no one imports them to Australia.
Moto619-

Actually Australia is one if the bigger markets for us, i send bikes there basically weekly.,
we have 2 distributors importing our bikes to Australia
listed on our webpage

http://www.servicehonda.com/contact





In Australia

Eastern Australia

Jeffrey Motorcycle Centre
1029 Burwood Highway
Ferntree Gully, Victoria, 3156
Ph: 03 9758 7322, Fx 03 9752 2540, Mobile 0418 145 406

Email: mailto: geoff@jeffreyhonda.com.au

www.jeffreyhonda.com.au

Western Australia

Prestige Honda

36 McCoy st

Melville

WA 6154

PH: (08) 9317 5777

FAX: (08) 9317 4600


Email: motorcycles@prestige-honda.com.au

Web: www.prestige-honda.com.au




The most famous Aussie with one is ,, *Maddo* who has went 354 feet on our 500AF's ,and set world distance records several time's.
wow123
Posts
1162
Joined
4/27/2010
Location
AX
3/16/2011 7:20am
Wow didn't know it was 500AF

Great bikes!
AJ
Posts
933
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Lowell, IN, USA
3/16/2011 8:15am
wow123 wrote:
Wow didn't know it was 500AF

Great bikes!
Thanks!

FWIW-
Most total distance records over the last few years where all set on Service Honda 500AF (or Service Kawasaki KX500AF)

Trigger Gum(CR500AF)
Ryan Capes,(KX500AF)
Robbie Maddison.(CR500AF)
Bigfoot
Posts
1197
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
3/16/2011 9:14am
From the photos it looks like the unmodified portion of the frame still has the stock clear anodizing. Which means that the frame wasn't heat treated. Which means that anyone who buys that bike should have realllllllllly good health insurance with a low deductible for massive trauma.
yota
Posts
1421
Joined
6/23/2008
Location
Crystal River, FL, USA
3/16/2011 10:09am
mine was a full frame heat treatment after welding and I think the SH ones are also (not positive) but there are many, many conversions that were not heat treated that have held up fine for years, moto and off road both.
3/16/2011 10:18am
Suns_PSD wrote:
I can't speak for this particular example but I assure you that SH are not the only people capable of properly welding on an aluminum dirt...
I can't speak for this particular example but I assure you that SH are not the only people capable of properly welding on an aluminum dirt bike frame.

My buddy (for example) built several that as an overall package are well above the average SH unit in terms of overall componentry. One of them in fact survived an 80' spear right into a peaky triple last month. Rider is mangled. however the AF500 bike and frame is fine although the expansion chamber looks like a pancake now.
Shhhhh. Don't let the people that paid too much for their over priced SH hear that.
AJ wrote:
panic revver. It's all good if people want to build one !!.. its a cool bike and i like to see as many as possible out...
panic revver.

It's all good if people want to build one !!.. its a cool bike and i like to see as many as possible out there.!!!
awesome!

That said i get "internet" grief about *pricing* often. lol Smile

Now certainly i understand you don't need all new parts, and can make a used bike for less !!
So using a used or rebuilt engine ,or chassis ..should naturally be less.
I could do that as well?

Its just my general choice not to.If i built pools ,or TVs, I'd build new ones ,not used ones.
but nothing would be wrong with a used one.

Likewise, I build new motorcycles,
some people prefer to buy a brand new bike, to have that confidence in it,and the continued product support of a long established dealer. and to know its good resale value as well..

So when putting out comparisons of overpriced , to some used or refurbished bike , lets be real? and keep it fair.....

Anyone building one from the ground up from all brand new parts,, new engine , pipes made specifically for the model..
is going to be in for a shock.
Find one example of anyone selling a new converted bike into a 500,, , post a link, i'll conceed I'm over priced. Wink
fair enough?

when the KTM530 is 8 or 9 k,,
then of course a customized, open class bike ,made by a dealership ordering in all new OEM parts..made to the customers order, is naturally going to be bit more. The bikes price simply reflects the cost to build one ,new.
The costs of every CR500 engine part to assemble a new engine , (more than some bikes)
the cost of the new CRF, the cost of the machined parts ,the carb ,the pipe, the electrics, the labor, etc
I do this far more from a passion for it ...Itake it quite seriously and try to provide
riders with another new model and option , at the lowest price possible for me to reasonably do so.

Customers truly interested in a specialty bike understand that..

Takes nothing at all away from someone wanting to do all the work themselves with used parts,, or from someone wanting to buy a good used bike, but it should cost less, right?

A used CRF250R , a year, or several model years older, (regardles its condition or being refurbished)
costs less in my area , than a new 2011 CRF250R..
I accept that as pretty normal..
my guess is that's generally true most everywhere.
I am not sure which is more amusing, the fact you took the time to write all that out or that you used a KTM (the most overpriced bike there is) on the market to compare the SHCR500AF too. I am not going to go looking for a link for you, they are worth what someone is willing to pay for them. Your bikes are great pieces of work for sure. For me they are overpriced and let's face it we are talking about a CR500 motor and those thing are for the most part bullet proof.
FreshTopEnd
Posts
13293
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA, USA
3/16/2011 11:10am
Shhhhh. Don't let the people that paid too much for their over priced SH hear that.
AJ wrote:
panic revver. It's all good if people want to build one !!.. its a cool bike and i like to see as many as possible out...
panic revver.

It's all good if people want to build one !!.. its a cool bike and i like to see as many as possible out there.!!!
awesome!

That said i get "internet" grief about *pricing* often. lol Smile

Now certainly i understand you don't need all new parts, and can make a used bike for less !!
So using a used or rebuilt engine ,or chassis ..should naturally be less.
I could do that as well?

Its just my general choice not to.If i built pools ,or TVs, I'd build new ones ,not used ones.
but nothing would be wrong with a used one.

Likewise, I build new motorcycles,
some people prefer to buy a brand new bike, to have that confidence in it,and the continued product support of a long established dealer. and to know its good resale value as well..

So when putting out comparisons of overpriced , to some used or refurbished bike , lets be real? and keep it fair.....

Anyone building one from the ground up from all brand new parts,, new engine , pipes made specifically for the model..
is going to be in for a shock.
Find one example of anyone selling a new converted bike into a 500,, , post a link, i'll conceed I'm over priced. Wink
fair enough?

when the KTM530 is 8 or 9 k,,
then of course a customized, open class bike ,made by a dealership ordering in all new OEM parts..made to the customers order, is naturally going to be bit more. The bikes price simply reflects the cost to build one ,new.
The costs of every CR500 engine part to assemble a new engine , (more than some bikes)
the cost of the new CRF, the cost of the machined parts ,the carb ,the pipe, the electrics, the labor, etc
I do this far more from a passion for it ...Itake it quite seriously and try to provide
riders with another new model and option , at the lowest price possible for me to reasonably do so.

Customers truly interested in a specialty bike understand that..

Takes nothing at all away from someone wanting to do all the work themselves with used parts,, or from someone wanting to buy a good used bike, but it should cost less, right?

A used CRF250R , a year, or several model years older, (regardles its condition or being refurbished)
costs less in my area , than a new 2011 CRF250R..
I accept that as pretty normal..
my guess is that's generally true most everywhere.
I am not sure which is more amusing, the fact you took the time to write all that out or that you used a KTM (the...
I am not sure which is more amusing, the fact you took the time to write all that out or that you used a KTM (the most overpriced bike there is) on the market to compare the SHCR500AF too. I am not going to go looking for a link for you, they are worth what someone is willing to pay for them. Your bikes are great pieces of work for sure. For me they are overpriced and let's face it we are talking about a CR500 motor and those thing are for the most part bullet proof.
Why are your arguing with a guy who has basically said he knows his market? I'm pretty sure AJ builds his bikes the way he does for the people who want it that way, not for people who don't want it that way.
500guy
Posts
12469
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
3/16/2011 11:18am
"Winning" DUH!
AJ
Posts
933
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Lowell, IN, USA
3/16/2011 11:32am
Panic,

There are lots of bike choices,thats a good thing. ! Smile
and there are real economic drivers that effect thier various pricing. be that KTM Suzuki Honda Gas Gas etc.

You basically called me out for having my products overpriced in your opinion.
Fair enough.
I think its reasonable i can in return ask you to show some sound basis for your opinion,
by showing anyone doing it for less as you implied,

Personal feelings on what something *should cost* ,are not relevent to what it costs to produce them..and the resulting retail value.

You can't supply any link, because no one can produce them new, for a lower price.I know this with all confidence sense i know what it costs to majke them fior the last decade.


I do hope more companies make new (or used) ones, I want to see them come back,!!!

I appluad KTM for thier efforts ,in offering a variety of bikes,
ultimately them doing so probably drives the cost of each model up somewhat..
(instead of makijng more of fewer models)
but its great to have more choices!
Erick
Posts
181
Joined
1/20/2010
Location
NL
3/16/2011 11:58am
AJ wrote:
Panic, There are lots of bike choices,thats a good thing. ! :) and there are real economic drivers that effect thier various pricing. be that KTM...
Panic,

There are lots of bike choices,thats a good thing. ! Smile
and there are real economic drivers that effect thier various pricing. be that KTM Suzuki Honda Gas Gas etc.

You basically called me out for having my products overpriced in your opinion.
Fair enough.
I think its reasonable i can in return ask you to show some sound basis for your opinion,
by showing anyone doing it for less as you implied,

Personal feelings on what something *should cost* ,are not relevent to what it costs to produce them..and the resulting retail value.

You can't supply any link, because no one can produce them new, for a lower price.I know this with all confidence sense i know what it costs to majke them fior the last decade.


I do hope more companies make new (or used) ones, I want to see them come back,!!!

I appluad KTM for thier efforts ,in offering a variety of bikes,
ultimately them doing so probably drives the cost of each model up somewhat..
(instead of makijng more of fewer models)
but its great to have more choices!
I was wondering how does Service Honda heat treat their rewelded frames? Do you heat treat them locally using a torch or do you place the whole frame in an oven? Can you also tell me of what kind of Alu those frames are made of? Is it a 6000 or 7000 alloy?

I have no intention of beginning a company myself by stealing your work Wink , I am just curious because I have an engineering background. The work Service Honda does is fantastic work and I fully support your effort Smile
wardy
Posts
1794
Joined
3/31/2008
Location
USA
3/16/2011 12:06pm
Please.

linking a 2003 frame listing rolling chasis with no friggin title. thats apples to apples????


yea yea I know I am friends with aj, and SH so my opinion don't count.

What i find amuseing is that it's supposed to be a bad thing that a bike builder like AJ takes the time to explain himself, then get chastised for it.

people wonder why it's really hard to get people, companies, dealers, promoters, etc....... to post on post boards and to be accessible. geee. is it really a wonder?

thats the real friggin joke.
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA, USA
3/16/2011 12:43pm
Erick wrote:
I was wondering how does Service Honda heat treat their rewelded frames? Do you heat treat them locally using a torch or do you place the...
I was wondering how does Service Honda heat treat their rewelded frames? Do you heat treat them locally using a torch or do you place the whole frame in an oven? Can you also tell me of what kind of Alu those frames are made of? Is it a 6000 or 7000 alloy?

I have no intention of beginning a company myself by stealing your work Wink , I am just curious because I have an engineering background. The work Service Honda does is fantastic work and I fully support your effort Smile
I'm also a little curious about heat treating. I can say "Thank God for Service Honda." This has got to be one of the coolest companies I can think of. Just to have a company that can build you whatever you want is completely awesome. These are the bikes that the factories should have built, and that everyone wants.
kaboom645
Posts
435
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
3/16/2011 2:29pm
Erick wrote:
I was wondering how does Service Honda heat treat their rewelded frames? Do you heat treat them locally using a torch or do you place the...
I was wondering how does Service Honda heat treat their rewelded frames? Do you heat treat them locally using a torch or do you place the whole frame in an oven? Can you also tell me of what kind of Alu those frames are made of? Is it a 6000 or 7000 alloy?

I have no intention of beginning a company myself by stealing your work Wink , I am just curious because I have an engineering background. The work Service Honda does is fantastic work and I fully support your effort Smile
Most likely they are heated in a furnace , and the frame is maintained at a specified heat for several hours before the frame is cooled in a quenching solution. In this link you will find several youtube videos of the heat treat process
http://blog.spidertrax.com/2009/01/

Most likely the frames are a 6061-t6 grade alum. 7000 series is more difficult to weld
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/process-and-theory/Pages/a…
Moto619
Posts
258
Joined
10/17/2010
Location
Wollongong NSW, AU
3/16/2011 2:30pm
2010 or onwards style frames anyone getting one done or seen it done the originals are looking a little dated but still good. Don't get me wrong still great looking bikes just would like a new style chassis
kaboom645
Posts
435
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
3/16/2011 2:36pm
Moto619 wrote:
2010 or onwards style frames anyone getting one done or seen it done the originals are looking a little dated but still good. Don't get me...
2010 or onwards style frames anyone getting one done or seen it done the originals are looking a little dated but still good. Don't get me wrong still great looking bikes just would like a new style chassis
There were pics of the newer style 450f on bannedcr500 riders.com

Found a youtube video of one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GhpCrN1iMU
TerryK
Posts
9899
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
CA
3/16/2011 8:55pm
yota wrote:
I was talking about Service Honda's welds, not the one in the craigslist ad. there are some Service Hondas that have not so pretty welds. The...
I was talking about Service Honda's welds, not the one in the craigslist ad. there are some Service Hondas that have not so pretty welds. The last 3 I have personally seen looked good.
not as nice as the one's on my bike though (: (not my welding). maybe read the quote a little more carefully.
Maybe lighten up a bit.
TerryK
Posts
9899
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
CA
3/16/2011 9:01pm
I will probably never be able to afford a new Service Honda CR500AF, but I've been up close and personal with a couple and I can say without hesitation that they are built with unbelievable attention to detail and skill. Bravo AJ for providing these amazing machines for so many years! Hell even Team Honda has used your bikes!!!

AJ: how about a KTM 250SXF chassis with a KTM 380SX engine?? Tongue I'll be first in line!!
yota
Posts
1421
Joined
6/23/2008
Location
Crystal River, FL, USA
3/17/2011 5:48am
Erick wrote:
I was wondering how does Service Honda heat treat their rewelded frames? Do you heat treat them locally using a torch or do you place the...
I was wondering how does Service Honda heat treat their rewelded frames? Do you heat treat them locally using a torch or do you place the whole frame in an oven? Can you also tell me of what kind of Alu those frames are made of? Is it a 6000 or 7000 alloy?

I have no intention of beginning a company myself by stealing your work Wink , I am just curious because I have an engineering background. The work Service Honda does is fantastic work and I fully support your effort Smile
burn1986 wrote:
I'm also a little curious about heat treating. I can say "Thank God for Service Honda." This has got to be one of the coolest companies...
I'm also a little curious about heat treating. I can say "Thank God for Service Honda." This has got to be one of the coolest companies I can think of. Just to have a company that can build you whatever you want is completely awesome. These are the bikes that the factories should have built, and that everyone wants.
I will be surprised if you get a response on the SH heat treating method. Please surprise me.
ATKpilot99
Posts
10467
Joined
4/13/2010
Location
Lake Geneva, WI, USA
3/17/2011 6:33am
TerryK wrote:
I will probably never be able to afford a new Service Honda CR500AF, but I've been up close and personal with a couple and I can...
I will probably never be able to afford a new Service Honda CR500AF, but I've been up close and personal with a couple and I can say without hesitation that they are built with unbelievable attention to detail and skill. Bravo AJ for providing these amazing machines for so many years! Hell even Team Honda has used your bikes!!!

AJ: how about a KTM 250SXF chassis with a KTM 380SX engine?? Tongue I'll be first in line!!
Absolutely! I'd buy that bike too.
3/17/2011 6:42am
AJ wrote:
panic revver. It's all good if people want to build one !!.. its a cool bike and i like to see as many as possible out...
panic revver.

It's all good if people want to build one !!.. its a cool bike and i like to see as many as possible out there.!!!
awesome!

That said i get "internet" grief about *pricing* often. lol Smile

Now certainly i understand you don't need all new parts, and can make a used bike for less !!
So using a used or rebuilt engine ,or chassis ..should naturally be less.
I could do that as well?

Its just my general choice not to.If i built pools ,or TVs, I'd build new ones ,not used ones.
but nothing would be wrong with a used one.

Likewise, I build new motorcycles,
some people prefer to buy a brand new bike, to have that confidence in it,and the continued product support of a long established dealer. and to know its good resale value as well..

So when putting out comparisons of overpriced , to some used or refurbished bike , lets be real? and keep it fair.....

Anyone building one from the ground up from all brand new parts,, new engine , pipes made specifically for the model..
is going to be in for a shock.
Find one example of anyone selling a new converted bike into a 500,, , post a link, i'll conceed I'm over priced. Wink
fair enough?

when the KTM530 is 8 or 9 k,,
then of course a customized, open class bike ,made by a dealership ordering in all new OEM parts..made to the customers order, is naturally going to be bit more. The bikes price simply reflects the cost to build one ,new.
The costs of every CR500 engine part to assemble a new engine , (more than some bikes)
the cost of the new CRF, the cost of the machined parts ,the carb ,the pipe, the electrics, the labor, etc
I do this far more from a passion for it ...Itake it quite seriously and try to provide
riders with another new model and option , at the lowest price possible for me to reasonably do so.

Customers truly interested in a specialty bike understand that..

Takes nothing at all away from someone wanting to do all the work themselves with used parts,, or from someone wanting to buy a good used bike, but it should cost less, right?

A used CRF250R , a year, or several model years older, (regardles its condition or being refurbished)
costs less in my area , than a new 2011 CRF250R..
I accept that as pretty normal..
my guess is that's generally true most everywhere.
I am not sure which is more amusing, the fact you took the time to write all that out or that you used a KTM (the...
I am not sure which is more amusing, the fact you took the time to write all that out or that you used a KTM (the most overpriced bike there is) on the market to compare the SHCR500AF too. I am not going to go looking for a link for you, they are worth what someone is willing to pay for them. Your bikes are great pieces of work for sure. For me they are overpriced and let's face it we are talking about a CR500 motor and those thing are for the most part bullet proof.
Why are your arguing with a guy who has basically said he knows his market? I'm pretty sure AJ builds his bikes the way he does...
Why are your arguing with a guy who has basically said he knows his market? I'm pretty sure AJ builds his bikes the way he does for the people who want it that way, not for people who don't want it that way.
Arguing? Maybe he is, I am not.
3/17/2011 6:51am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2011 6:54am
AJ wrote:
Panic, There are lots of bike choices,thats a good thing. ! :) and there are real economic drivers that effect thier various pricing. be that KTM...
Panic,

There are lots of bike choices,thats a good thing. ! Smile
and there are real economic drivers that effect thier various pricing. be that KTM Suzuki Honda Gas Gas etc.

You basically called me out for having my products overpriced in your opinion.
Fair enough.
I think its reasonable i can in return ask you to show some sound basis for your opinion,
by showing anyone doing it for less as you implied,

Personal feelings on what something *should cost* ,are not relevent to what it costs to produce them..and the resulting retail value.

You can't supply any link, because no one can produce them new, for a lower price.I know this with all confidence sense i know what it costs to majke them fior the last decade.


I do hope more companies make new (or used) ones, I want to see them come back,!!!

I appluad KTM for thier efforts ,in offering a variety of bikes,
ultimately them doing so probably drives the cost of each model up somewhat..
(instead of makijng more of fewer models)
but its great to have more choices!
I didn't say anyone could produce them new for a lower price. Personal feelings almost always go into the buying process (unless it is solely an investment) and as a consumer we want the best deal. Is yours the best deal? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what the consumer is willing to pay. Soooooo what does it cost to make them? Smile
DrSweden
Posts
6761
Joined
8/30/2008
Location
Stockholm, SE
3/17/2011 7:18am
I think you get what you pay for. Just to make you guys aware how damn lucky you are in the US. In Sweden a new CRF250 or whatever cost 10k, so if one could get a hand build new CRF500AF for the same price in Sweden, I'm guessing we would see quite many running around! Smile

For me those home builds bikes are a nightmare. We know shit about the welding and if they will hold together while the AJ bikes have been proven over and over, and his reputation depends on that.

I wouldn't touch a home build one with a ten feet pole...

Can someone post some pics with the 2010 frame? I picture one with a CR250 2001 engine... Yeah!
AJ
Posts
933
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Lowell, IN, USA
3/17/2011 10:35am
Panicrevver- said:

I didn't say anyone could produce them new for a lower price.

that is because I know for a fact they can't ..
so *overpriced* seems an odd statement to make ,and to try and defend like you are here ?

Personal feelings almost always go into the buying process (unless it is solely an investment) and as a consumer we want the best deal. Is yours the best deal? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what the consumer is willing to pay.
Soooooo what does it cost to make them?


Personal feelings?
Sure they factor into any individuals buying process! but not because the item of choice isn't priced at a fair value.

I can't afford a new (or used) Cessna, doesn't mean it is *overpriced*
it means its beyond my personal budget for an entertainment item.
Cessna is selling at a fair price related to what it costs to produce them,

as far as what the consumer is willing to pay..
if the market dint bear it, then they simply couldn't make them, they could not lower the price.

I have no trouble selling all that i can manufactuer, .granted that's a faily low number in the big picture of things ,
and that's quite ok with me . i enjoy doing it.

is you bike the best deal? yes
For a dirt bike rider who is looking for a new model, 500cc 2 stroke ,off road motorcycle , absolutely it is the best deal?
and more readily available in units, and parts, and long term customer support than any other.
In fact it is far better value and deal than if he attempted to make a new bike of this type, on his own, as the cost would be much higher.

If someone was to build a new CRF450R.it will cost far more than buying one from your dealer.
This is basic economics

How much do they cost to build?

How much does a CRF250R cost to build?
Our margin is certainly much smaller on a 500AF than Honda's is on a CRF250R..
or any other manufactuer.

If you are that interested, how about you do some really simple math?go find the best price you can on a new CRF250R
(5 or 6 K) then get the best price on all the CR500 engine parts ,electrics and carb,(5 or 6K)
and then ad in another 1.5 K for additional parts needed to convert the bike,
finally add in labour to tear down ,modify, and reassemble it. (don't even worry about overhead yet)

Perhaps the main reason i try to address this, is the so midsguided misconsception.

The bike leaves here losing money....they initially cost far more to produce than, thier retail price.

So , eventually selling the 250R engine , down the road, recoups some,
and that amount varies,but it lets us keep making them!!
I enjoy doing it. or i wouldn't do it.

Again economics 101
If there was the big money in it, that some think, then naturally other companies would be jumping on it !
Yet in over a decade no one has, most likely because ,when anyone looked into it,they saw it just wasn't truly profitable.


Drsweden - lol patience..patience. Wink


other questions-
The frames are pre and post treated.When some Honda employee ,goes against company policy , and outlines their exact process and temps used online, i'll do the same? I kind of like my job ,and would like to keep it ..
i also certainly respect my companies policy on this ,as it is exactly like any other manufactuers... fair enough?

To the member posted about clear anodization of the stock OEM frames..you are very misinformed.
Having worked on thousands of them over the last 14 years,,
I can tell you plainly the Honda or Kawasaki etc, aluminum frames are not clear anodized in any way ,shape ,or form.
The OEM frames are mixture of 6000 series casted and billet pieces., and 7000 series extruded.
(in the case of Honda a unique 7000 series)
We do lab test them, for the material types and for frame strenght.


The swing arms are clear anodized. but not the frames.


Mot0619-the new 2011 models will be in the new chassis.
Faceaz
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Location
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3/17/2011 11:01am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2011 11:04am
AJ wrote:
Panic, There are lots of bike choices,thats a good thing. ! :) and there are real economic drivers that effect thier various pricing. be that KTM...
Panic,

There are lots of bike choices,thats a good thing. ! Smile
and there are real economic drivers that effect thier various pricing. be that KTM Suzuki Honda Gas Gas etc.

You basically called me out for having my products overpriced in your opinion.
Fair enough.
I think its reasonable i can in return ask you to show some sound basis for your opinion,
by showing anyone doing it for less as you implied,

Personal feelings on what something *should cost* ,are not relevent to what it costs to produce them..and the resulting retail value.

You can't supply any link, because no one can produce them new, for a lower price.I know this with all confidence sense i know what it costs to majke them fior the last decade.


I do hope more companies make new (or used) ones, I want to see them come back,!!!

I appluad KTM for thier efforts ,in offering a variety of bikes,
ultimately them doing so probably drives the cost of each model up somewhat..
(instead of makijng more of fewer models)
but its great to have more choices!
I didn't say anyone could produce them new for a lower price. Personal feelings almost always go into the buying process (unless it is solely an...
I didn't say anyone could produce them new for a lower price. Personal feelings almost always go into the buying process (unless it is solely an investment) and as a consumer we want the best deal. Is yours the best deal? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what the consumer is willing to pay. Soooooo what does it cost to make them? Smile
I don't understand how you can possibly call his bikes overpriced. Price is established by supply / demand. If he is doing this out of passion & not driven by producing high volumes of bikes, (if it's a quality product) there will be high demand due to the low availability. If his price was so high that he wasn't selling any bikes, then he would be pricing himself out of the market. But, the goal should be to establish a price where the bikes sell as quickly as they're made (maintaining a low overhead) while maintaining the highest profits possible. Kudos to him for being able to make a living doing something he's passionate about, most are less fortunate. The price to make them, in large part is determined by what he believes his time (knowledge, expertise, attn to detail) are worth. Evidently he believes (& so do many other people) his time is quite valuable.
3/17/2011 11:42am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2011 11:43am
AJ wrote:
Panicrevver- said: [b]I didn't say anyone could produce them new for a lower price.[/b] that is because I know for a fact they can't .. so...
Panicrevver- said:

I didn't say anyone could produce them new for a lower price.

that is because I know for a fact they can't ..
so *overpriced* seems an odd statement to make ,and to try and defend like you are here ?

Personal feelings almost always go into the buying process (unless it is solely an investment) and as a consumer we want the best deal. Is yours the best deal? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what the consumer is willing to pay.
Soooooo what does it cost to make them?


Personal feelings?
Sure they factor into any individuals buying process! but not because the item of choice isn't priced at a fair value.

I can't afford a new (or used) Cessna, doesn't mean it is *overpriced*
it means its beyond my personal budget for an entertainment item.
Cessna is selling at a fair price related to what it costs to produce them,

as far as what the consumer is willing to pay..
if the market dint bear it, then they simply couldn't make them, they could not lower the price.

I have no trouble selling all that i can manufactuer, .granted that's a faily low number in the big picture of things ,
and that's quite ok with me . i enjoy doing it.

is you bike the best deal? yes
For a dirt bike rider who is looking for a new model, 500cc 2 stroke ,off road motorcycle , absolutely it is the best deal?
and more readily available in units, and parts, and long term customer support than any other.
In fact it is far better value and deal than if he attempted to make a new bike of this type, on his own, as the cost would be much higher.

If someone was to build a new CRF450R.it will cost far more than buying one from your dealer.
This is basic economics

How much do they cost to build?

How much does a CRF250R cost to build?
Our margin is certainly much smaller on a 500AF than Honda's is on a CRF250R..
or any other manufactuer.

If you are that interested, how about you do some really simple math?go find the best price you can on a new CRF250R
(5 or 6 K) then get the best price on all the CR500 engine parts ,electrics and carb,(5 or 6K)
and then ad in another 1.5 K for additional parts needed to convert the bike,
finally add in labour to tear down ,modify, and reassemble it. (don't even worry about overhead yet)

Perhaps the main reason i try to address this, is the so midsguided misconsception.

The bike leaves here losing money....they initially cost far more to produce than, thier retail price.

So , eventually selling the 250R engine , down the road, recoups some,
and that amount varies,but it lets us keep making them!!
I enjoy doing it. or i wouldn't do it.

Again economics 101
If there was the big money in it, that some think, then naturally other companies would be jumping on it !
Yet in over a decade no one has, most likely because ,when anyone looked into it,they saw it just wasn't truly profitable.


Drsweden - lol patience..patience. Wink


other questions-
The frames are pre and post treated.When some Honda employee ,goes against company policy , and outlines their exact process and temps used online, i'll do the same? I kind of like my job ,and would like to keep it ..
i also certainly respect my companies policy on this ,as it is exactly like any other manufactuers... fair enough?

To the member posted about clear anodization of the stock OEM frames..you are very misinformed.
Having worked on thousands of them over the last 14 years,,
I can tell you plainly the Honda or Kawasaki etc, aluminum frames are not clear anodized in any way ,shape ,or form.
The OEM frames are mixture of 6000 series casted and billet pieces., and 7000 series extruded.
(in the case of Honda a unique 7000 series)
We do lab test them, for the material types and for frame strenght.


The swing arms are clear anodized. but not the frames.


Mot0619-the new 2011 models will be in the new chassis.
Ok. and remember I did say you make a great bike.

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