Renewable energy Myth

ShellyMX
Posts
1464
Joined
3/22/2026
Location
Smyrna, GA, USA
10/2/2026 11:00am

OH messes up everything 

1
byke
Posts
3177
Joined
8/12/2015
Location
Auburn, CA, USA
10/2/2026 12:21pm

Ohio and Georgia are surprisingly similar in many categories, population, education, debt. crime, gdp, employment, income, poverty, cost of living, etc. etc. 

Though until the laws recently changed in Georgia, they had way more squatted trucks, so that's.....something.

2
early
Posts
10109
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH, USA
10/2/2026 12:34pm
early wrote:
Electric, nat gas, water, sewer you pay a baserate or subscription charge plus usage which is a series of micro-transactions you have with the company. The only...

Electric, nat gas, water, sewer you pay a baserate or subscription charge plus usage which is a series of micro-transactions you have with the company. 

The only way to avoid these subscriptions is to go off-grid which is fairly doable for nat gas, water, and sewer but electric is more difficult until solar with battery storage.

Solar is the one form of energy generation you can buy and not have a fixed input cost. Once you have the hardware it works, it's a beautiful thing. 

As far as baseload, nuclear should be developed for a number of reasons, but, without getting too political it will have some issues attached. That was one of the things I noticed in this video is that he really hand waived away any geopolitical implications of fossil fuel reliance. 

RDnutz wrote:
there is absolutely a fixed input cost for home solar unless you can DIY. Always a contract (loan, rent, lease to own, etc.) involved for installation...

there is absolutely a fixed input cost for home solar unless you can DIY. Always a contract (loan, rent, lease to own, etc.) involved for installation for probably min $10k for small installation (not whole house of average size) and they always tie you to the grid for nighttime use. The storage batteries like Tesla Wall are very expensive too. 2 people in my friends/family orbit have done whole house solar in CA and the install companies went bankrupt so there was no warranty repairs and controllers especially are hard to find replacements for existing systems.

What you are describing is a financing and maintenance cost, not an input cost. I can pay $8k to have a new gas furnace installed but it won't work unless I pay the gas company for a gas line hookup and their base rate and their unit rate. If any part of the gas furnace breaks the gas company doesn't care they will not provide me with gas if I don't pay the bill even if I tell them I just spent $2k replacing a motherboard on the furnace. Similarly none of my electric utilities work unless I pay the base fixed rate and the utility unit cost. Similarly if your vehicle blows a tranny you still need to buy gas to put in it to make it move at all.

Your friends may have agreed to some kind of monitoring or operating subscription charge which is sold to consumer f installations but not necessary to solar in general.

Fundamentally if you buy solar panels and set them out in the daylight they start producing usable electricity, harnessing and deploying that electricity is another cost, but they just work without having to feed the flame. 

2
TeamGreen
Posts
37781
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
10/2/2026 2:25pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I wasn’t legal…it started when I was 13.But, in her car…I could make money racing the older guys. My gramps knew how to make an LT1...

I wasn’t legal…it started when I was 13.

But, in her car…I could make money racing the older guys. My gramps knew how to make an LT1 scream. 

ShellyMX wrote:
The LT1 had a lot of untapped potential!!Not like the sluggish 350 w/air induction I had in my ‘80 Z28. 😢 Sounded fantastic when those air...

The LT1 had a lot of untapped potential!!

Not like the sluggish 350 w/air induction I had in my ‘80 Z28. 😢 Sounded fantastic when those air induction scoop doors opened but with smog and emissions BS could be out run by a Rabbit GTI. 😂

Those 78-80 Z28s had the “Slap Shifter” (Automatics).

Gramps put a ‘70 spec LT1 in an ‘80 that was silver w/blue graphics. It was a true sleeper. T-tops…the cowl-active vent hood, the leather interior…the works. The stock motor, which I recall was teal-blue and only about 5,000 miles on it, got yanked and the Orange Beast went in…I think he ran a Holley 700-750ish carb with a primary-secondary set up that used only one pump? I remember he was surprised that I didn’t destroy the stock trans…TH400, maybe? All I know is that Slap Stick WORKED awesome.

It was a great time to be a kid. 

1

The Shop

avidchimp
Posts
5872
Joined
7/9/2008
Location
EGL, MN, USA
10/2/2026 4:07pm
gt80rider wrote:
Anybody else sit in long gas lines in the 70s? Anybody remember the "peak oil" movement??? That was all a goof.... now days they go back...

Anybody else sit in long gas lines in the 70s? Anybody remember the "peak oil" movement??? That was all a goof.... now days they go back to old dry fields and mysteriously they r filled up again... geezus the bs they've pushed down our throats over the years just to make a buck.... 

TeamGreen wrote:
Do you remember odd and even days? I had to swap plates on my aunts Z28 sometimes to be able to get gas for the cruise on...

Do you remember odd and even days? 

I had to swap plates on my aunts Z28 sometimes to be able to get gas for the cruise on Friday night. 

Tough times…ahhh…Bullshit…

They were awesome times. 🤣

It was Kevin's Burgers (IYKYK) on Friday night's for us. Then later that night after the "car show" portion of the evening was over there was always the rest of the night making bets and chasing spots.

Canoga and Plummer, Mason and Nordhoff, Valjean, Coldwater and Saticoy, and the infamous San Fernando Road . Those were the days for sure. Then the rice rocket generation basically blew it all up.

Saturdays in Camarillo were where the big dogs went for a couple years until that became a bust. Meet at the park n ride at Las Posas, then usually head over to Del Norte before it was all industrial buildings. Cops would actually cruise by and hang out, but once the commerce side became much more 24/7 it was shut down.

1
RDnutz
Posts
1023
Joined
2/13/2021
Location
Dolores, CO, USA
10/2/2026 4:12pm
early wrote:
Electric, nat gas, water, sewer you pay a baserate or subscription charge plus usage which is a series of micro-transactions you have with the company. The only...

Electric, nat gas, water, sewer you pay a baserate or subscription charge plus usage which is a series of micro-transactions you have with the company. 

The only way to avoid these subscriptions is to go off-grid which is fairly doable for nat gas, water, and sewer but electric is more difficult until solar with battery storage.

Solar is the one form of energy generation you can buy and not have a fixed input cost. Once you have the hardware it works, it's a beautiful thing. 

As far as baseload, nuclear should be developed for a number of reasons, but, without getting too political it will have some issues attached. That was one of the things I noticed in this video is that he really hand waived away any geopolitical implications of fossil fuel reliance. 

RDnutz wrote:
there is absolutely a fixed input cost for home solar unless you can DIY. Always a contract (loan, rent, lease to own, etc.) involved for installation...

there is absolutely a fixed input cost for home solar unless you can DIY. Always a contract (loan, rent, lease to own, etc.) involved for installation for probably min $10k for small installation (not whole house of average size) and they always tie you to the grid for nighttime use. The storage batteries like Tesla Wall are very expensive too. 2 people in my friends/family orbit have done whole house solar in CA and the install companies went bankrupt so there was no warranty repairs and controllers especially are hard to find replacements for existing systems.

early wrote:
What you are describing is a financing and maintenance cost, not an input cost. I can pay $8k to have a new gas furnace installed but...

What you are describing is a financing and maintenance cost, not an input cost. I can pay $8k to have a new gas furnace installed but it won't work unless I pay the gas company for a gas line hookup and their base rate and their unit rate. If any part of the gas furnace breaks the gas company doesn't care they will not provide me with gas if I don't pay the bill even if I tell them I just spent $2k replacing a motherboard on the furnace. Similarly none of my electric utilities work unless I pay the base fixed rate and the utility unit cost. Similarly if your vehicle blows a tranny you still need to buy gas to put in it to make it move at all.

Your friends may have agreed to some kind of monitoring or operating subscription charge which is sold to consumer f installations but not necessary to solar in general.

Fundamentally if you buy solar panels and set them out in the daylight they start producing usable electricity, harnessing and deploying that electricity is another cost, but they just work without having to feed the flame. 

so you're basically trying to live off the grid for free? I designed and installed my 1st solar system for a workshop with no power back in 2000. There's going to be startup costs no matter what term you use, and there will be ongoing costs from there since panels only best case have expected 20 yrs lifespan. Inverters are good for a few years at least- unless you scale up your system regularly. Storage batteries need replacing every couple years and they don't like cold weather or being outside... there's no free ride.

I get the trying to avoid recurring monthly fees as much as possible! Me and the wife always lived below our means and never had kids so that helped going into retirement. Our main emphasis in on lowest possible amount of recurring monthly expenses instead of more $ + debt carried over. We have a decent house with small mortgage, natural gas, Septic system, and an electric co-op. No cable TV (free ANT mostly), cheap monthly trash service flat fee, wife has 1 or 2 cheap streaming subscriptions We have cheap paid for mobile phones and never upgrade, no satellite stuff or gaming. Only average about 5k miles per year at most on our paid for vehicles. No Door Dash home deliveries and make our own coffee at home every morning instead of buying fancy coffee by the cup @ Dunkin or whatever. SS basically pays for that whole lifestyle and we don't feel like we're missing a thing. We save up for property taxes and home insurance in a dedicated account with monthly contributions from IRAs and never worry about $ when we decide to go out and have hobbies. Low-cost lifestyle is achievable, but not everybody has the discipline to make it reality.

YMMV

1
2
TeamGreen
Posts
37781
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
10/2/2026 4:47pm
gt80rider wrote:
Anybody else sit in long gas lines in the 70s? Anybody remember the "peak oil" movement??? That was all a goof.... now days they go back...

Anybody else sit in long gas lines in the 70s? Anybody remember the "peak oil" movement??? That was all a goof.... now days they go back to old dry fields and mysteriously they r filled up again... geezus the bs they've pushed down our throats over the years just to make a buck.... 

TeamGreen wrote:
Do you remember odd and even days? I had to swap plates on my aunts Z28 sometimes to be able to get gas for the cruise on...

Do you remember odd and even days? 

I had to swap plates on my aunts Z28 sometimes to be able to get gas for the cruise on Friday night. 

Tough times…ahhh…Bullshit…

They were awesome times. 🤣

avidchimp wrote:
It was Kevin's Burgers (IYKYK) on Friday night's for us. Then later that night after the "car show" portion of the evening was over there was...

It was Kevin's Burgers (IYKYK) on Friday night's for us. Then later that night after the "car show" portion of the evening was over there was always the rest of the night making bets and chasing spots.

Canoga and Plummer, Mason and Nordhoff, Valjean, Coldwater and Saticoy, and the infamous San Fernando Road . Those were the days for sure. Then the rice rocket generation basically blew it all up.

Saturdays in Camarillo were where the big dogs went for a couple years until that became a bust. Meet at the park n ride at Las Posas, then usually head over to Del Norte before it was all industrial buildings. Cops would actually cruise by and hang out, but once the commerce side became much more 24/7 it was shut down.

Had lunch the other day at Chili’s at Fallbrook Square. Grew up a coupl’a miles away(Fallbrook & Saticoy)…for a spell…a few doors down from the Webbs.

Yet…I’m gonna have to ask for some background on Kevin’s Burgers…’cause, I don’t know.

I get the feeling we need to ride some dirt bikes and be catch up on The Life Of Old Valley Kids 🤣

ShellyMX
Posts
1464
Joined
3/22/2026
Location
Smyrna, GA, USA
10/2/2026 5:59pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Those 78-80 Z28s had the “Slap Shifter” (Automatics).Gramps put a ‘70 spec LT1 in an ‘80 that was silver w/blue graphics. It was a true sleeper...

Those 78-80 Z28s had the “Slap Shifter” (Automatics).

Gramps put a ‘70 spec LT1 in an ‘80 that was silver w/blue graphics. It was a true sleeper. T-tops…the cowl-active vent hood, the leather interior…the works. The stock motor, which I recall was teal-blue and only about 5,000 miles on it, got yanked and the Orange Beast went in…I think he ran a Holley 700-750ish carb with a primary-secondary set up that used only one pump? I remember he was surprised that I didn’t destroy the stock trans…TH400, maybe? All I know is that Slap Stick WORKED awesome.

It was a great time to be a kid. 

Agreed, man. Fantastic time to be a kid. Also the cars were so damn easy to work on back then!!

matt.3150
Posts
826
Joined
3/20/2015
Location
San Jose, CA, USA
10/2/2026 7:08pm
Solar and wind technology can improve all it wants. Doesn't change the fact that solar produces zero energy when the sun isn't shining and wind turbines...

Solar and wind technology can improve all it wants. Doesn't change the fact that solar produces zero energy when the sun isn't shining and wind turbines produce zero energy when the wind isn't blowing. 

Well you wouldn’t put solar panels in the polar regionsBut wind farms can be put any where it’s windy Those would the first things to consider I’m...

Well you wouldn’t put solar panels in the polar regions

But wind farms can be put any where it’s windy 

Those would the first things to consider I’m sure

Solar energy has nothing to do with the temperature outside.  Solar energy takes in photons that create energy. Even when it’s cloudy out they product energy , not at the same rate as a clear day, but they are still producing. Allot of polar regions are actually pretty clear outside just cold. 

4
ShellyMX
Posts
1464
Joined
3/22/2026
Location
Smyrna, GA, USA
10/2/2026 7:14pm
byke wrote:
Ohio and Georgia are surprisingly similar in many categories, population, education, debt. crime, gdp, employment, income, poverty, cost of living, etc. etc. Though until the laws recently...

Ohio and Georgia are surprisingly similar in many categories, population, education, debt. crime, gdp, employment, income, poverty, cost of living, etc. etc. 

Though until the laws recently changed in Georgia, they had way more squatted trucks, so that's.....something.

Heck yes, and Auburn CA is housing some of America’s finest including you! 😂

  • North Auburn Shooting Investigation (October 2026): The Placer County Sheriff's Officeinvestigated a shooting where a bullet struck a North Auburn apartment near Highway 49 and Fulweiler Avenue. One 25-year-old man was arrested on conspiracy charges, while authorities actively searched for the primary suspect. [1, 2]
  • Recent Homicide Case (February 2026): Law enforcement responded to a welfare check at an Auburn gated community/condo complex, discovering a homicide in which a 61-year-old woman was beaten to death by her 30-year-old son following a dispute over finances. [1, 2]
  • Casing Surveillance Trend (Late 2025): The Placer County Sheriff reported finding hidden, battery-powered surveillance cameras disguised in bushes near North Auburn residential properties, linked to organized regional burglary rings.
6
RDnutz
Posts
1023
Joined
2/13/2021
Location
Dolores, CO, USA
10/4/2026 12:25pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Those 78-80 Z28s had the “Slap Shifter” (Automatics).Gramps put a ‘70 spec LT1 in an ‘80 that was silver w/blue graphics. It was a true sleeper...

Those 78-80 Z28s had the “Slap Shifter” (Automatics).

Gramps put a ‘70 spec LT1 in an ‘80 that was silver w/blue graphics. It was a true sleeper. T-tops…the cowl-active vent hood, the leather interior…the works. The stock motor, which I recall was teal-blue and only about 5,000 miles on it, got yanked and the Orange Beast went in…I think he ran a Holley 700-750ish carb with a primary-secondary set up that used only one pump? I remember he was surprised that I didn’t destroy the stock trans…TH400, maybe? All I know is that Slap Stick WORKED awesome.

It was a great time to be a kid. 

the slap shifter still lives! sort of...My 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee has 5 spd auto with floor shifter in console. From a stop I can activate manual shifting by tilting shifter to 1 side in a special location. Then it's just tap tap tap shifter to that side up & down and individual gears are displayed in dashboard. It has a Sport mode which makes it a little more fun. Snow mode is nice to go manual too. My 2024 Nissan Frontier has a 9 spd console shifter with the same feature and Sport mode. Has tow/haul too so selecting gears manually for dirt roads getting to campsites it's kinda nice to select your own gear based on conditions you see ahead.

1
early
Posts
10109
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH, USA
10/8/2026 7:17am
RDnutz wrote:
there is absolutely a fixed input cost for home solar unless you can DIY. Always a contract (loan, rent, lease to own, etc.) involved for installation...

there is absolutely a fixed input cost for home solar unless you can DIY. Always a contract (loan, rent, lease to own, etc.) involved for installation for probably min $10k for small installation (not whole house of average size) and they always tie you to the grid for nighttime use. The storage batteries like Tesla Wall are very expensive too. 2 people in my friends/family orbit have done whole house solar in CA and the install companies went bankrupt so there was no warranty repairs and controllers especially are hard to find replacements for existing systems.

early wrote:
What you are describing is a financing and maintenance cost, not an input cost. I can pay $8k to have a new gas furnace installed but...

What you are describing is a financing and maintenance cost, not an input cost. I can pay $8k to have a new gas furnace installed but it won't work unless I pay the gas company for a gas line hookup and their base rate and their unit rate. If any part of the gas furnace breaks the gas company doesn't care they will not provide me with gas if I don't pay the bill even if I tell them I just spent $2k replacing a motherboard on the furnace. Similarly none of my electric utilities work unless I pay the base fixed rate and the utility unit cost. Similarly if your vehicle blows a tranny you still need to buy gas to put in it to make it move at all.

Your friends may have agreed to some kind of monitoring or operating subscription charge which is sold to consumer f installations but not necessary to solar in general.

Fundamentally if you buy solar panels and set them out in the daylight they start producing usable electricity, harnessing and deploying that electricity is another cost, but they just work without having to feed the flame. 

RDnutz wrote:
so you're basically trying to live off the grid for free? I designed and installed my 1st solar system for a workshop with no power back...

so you're basically trying to live off the grid for free? I designed and installed my 1st solar system for a workshop with no power back in 2000. There's going to be startup costs no matter what term you use, and there will be ongoing costs from there since panels only best case have expected 20 yrs lifespan. Inverters are good for a few years at least- unless you scale up your system regularly. Storage batteries need replacing every couple years and they don't like cold weather or being outside... there's no free ride.

I get the trying to avoid recurring monthly fees as much as possible! Me and the wife always lived below our means and never had kids so that helped going into retirement. Our main emphasis in on lowest possible amount of recurring monthly expenses instead of more $ + debt carried over. We have a decent house with small mortgage, natural gas, Septic system, and an electric co-op. No cable TV (free ANT mostly), cheap monthly trash service flat fee, wife has 1 or 2 cheap streaming subscriptions We have cheap paid for mobile phones and never upgrade, no satellite stuff or gaming. Only average about 5k miles per year at most on our paid for vehicles. No Door Dash home deliveries and make our own coffee at home every morning instead of buying fancy coffee by the cup @ Dunkin or whatever. SS basically pays for that whole lifestyle and we don't feel like we're missing a thing. We save up for property taxes and home insurance in a dedicated account with monthly contributions from IRAs and never worry about $ when we decide to go out and have hobbies. Low-cost lifestyle is achievable, but not everybody has the discipline to make it reality.

YMMV

It's going to cost you to have power one way or the other, but solar is an investment like a well and septic tank. In the end it might cost a little more, a little less or basically break even but it becomes an issue of personal responsibility. That's why I think it needs a rebrand, there's a freedom to it.

Free of damage (a semi-tall order) solar panels will work past their 20 year guarantee, likely with some loss of efficiency but not too bad. Other components are underwhelming in their robustness that's for sure. 

The thing is is that realistically electricity generation and battery storage will continue to be incredibly important to the world in the future for an incredible number of things, just think about how many more rechargeable battery operated things you use now compared to the 90s, they are everywhere and opened up lots of possibilities. Remember using a battery powered drill in the 90s? They sucked!

Electricity generation is essential and nuclear should be a good option, but is it a good option for the world? Is the US going to commit to developing nuclear, but then continuously attack countries that are developing their own nuclear energy programs? Nobody ever went to war because a country was building too many solar panels and batteries. 

7
SEEMEFIRST
Posts
14229
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Arlington, TX, USA
10/8/2026 10:25am
early wrote:
What you are describing is a financing and maintenance cost, not an input cost. I can pay $8k to have a new gas furnace installed but...

What you are describing is a financing and maintenance cost, not an input cost. I can pay $8k to have a new gas furnace installed but it won't work unless I pay the gas company for a gas line hookup and their base rate and their unit rate. If any part of the gas furnace breaks the gas company doesn't care they will not provide me with gas if I don't pay the bill even if I tell them I just spent $2k replacing a motherboard on the furnace. Similarly none of my electric utilities work unless I pay the base fixed rate and the utility unit cost. Similarly if your vehicle blows a tranny you still need to buy gas to put in it to make it move at all.

Your friends may have agreed to some kind of monitoring or operating subscription charge which is sold to consumer f installations but not necessary to solar in general.

Fundamentally if you buy solar panels and set them out in the daylight they start producing usable electricity, harnessing and deploying that electricity is another cost, but they just work without having to feed the flame. 

RDnutz wrote:
so you're basically trying to live off the grid for free? I designed and installed my 1st solar system for a workshop with no power back...

so you're basically trying to live off the grid for free? I designed and installed my 1st solar system for a workshop with no power back in 2000. There's going to be startup costs no matter what term you use, and there will be ongoing costs from there since panels only best case have expected 20 yrs lifespan. Inverters are good for a few years at least- unless you scale up your system regularly. Storage batteries need replacing every couple years and they don't like cold weather or being outside... there's no free ride.

I get the trying to avoid recurring monthly fees as much as possible! Me and the wife always lived below our means and never had kids so that helped going into retirement. Our main emphasis in on lowest possible amount of recurring monthly expenses instead of more $ + debt carried over. We have a decent house with small mortgage, natural gas, Septic system, and an electric co-op. No cable TV (free ANT mostly), cheap monthly trash service flat fee, wife has 1 or 2 cheap streaming subscriptions We have cheap paid for mobile phones and never upgrade, no satellite stuff or gaming. Only average about 5k miles per year at most on our paid for vehicles. No Door Dash home deliveries and make our own coffee at home every morning instead of buying fancy coffee by the cup @ Dunkin or whatever. SS basically pays for that whole lifestyle and we don't feel like we're missing a thing. We save up for property taxes and home insurance in a dedicated account with monthly contributions from IRAs and never worry about $ when we decide to go out and have hobbies. Low-cost lifestyle is achievable, but not everybody has the discipline to make it reality.

YMMV

early wrote:
It's going to cost you to have power one way or the other, but solar is an investment like a well and septic tank. In the...

It's going to cost you to have power one way or the other, but solar is an investment like a well and septic tank. In the end it might cost a little more, a little less or basically break even but it becomes an issue of personal responsibility. That's why I think it needs a rebrand, there's a freedom to it.

Free of damage (a semi-tall order) solar panels will work past their 20 year guarantee, likely with some loss of efficiency but not too bad. Other components are underwhelming in their robustness that's for sure. 

The thing is is that realistically electricity generation and battery storage will continue to be incredibly important to the world in the future for an incredible number of things, just think about how many more rechargeable battery operated things you use now compared to the 90s, they are everywhere and opened up lots of possibilities. Remember using a battery powered drill in the 90s? They sucked!

Electricity generation is essential and nuclear should be a good option, but is it a good option for the world? Is the US going to commit to developing nuclear, but then continuously attack countries that are developing their own nuclear energy programs? Nobody ever went to war because a country was building too many solar panels and batteries. 

The difference between power generation/medical enrichment and weapons grade enrichment is massive. 

You can generate power and be no where close to where you need to be to make a nuke.

2
1
TeamGreen
Posts
37781
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
10/8/2026 10:53am
RDnutz wrote:
so you're basically trying to live off the grid for free? I designed and installed my 1st solar system for a workshop with no power back...

so you're basically trying to live off the grid for free? I designed and installed my 1st solar system for a workshop with no power back in 2000. There's going to be startup costs no matter what term you use, and there will be ongoing costs from there since panels only best case have expected 20 yrs lifespan. Inverters are good for a few years at least- unless you scale up your system regularly. Storage batteries need replacing every couple years and they don't like cold weather or being outside... there's no free ride.

I get the trying to avoid recurring monthly fees as much as possible! Me and the wife always lived below our means and never had kids so that helped going into retirement. Our main emphasis in on lowest possible amount of recurring monthly expenses instead of more $ + debt carried over. We have a decent house with small mortgage, natural gas, Septic system, and an electric co-op. No cable TV (free ANT mostly), cheap monthly trash service flat fee, wife has 1 or 2 cheap streaming subscriptions We have cheap paid for mobile phones and never upgrade, no satellite stuff or gaming. Only average about 5k miles per year at most on our paid for vehicles. No Door Dash home deliveries and make our own coffee at home every morning instead of buying fancy coffee by the cup @ Dunkin or whatever. SS basically pays for that whole lifestyle and we don't feel like we're missing a thing. We save up for property taxes and home insurance in a dedicated account with monthly contributions from IRAs and never worry about $ when we decide to go out and have hobbies. Low-cost lifestyle is achievable, but not everybody has the discipline to make it reality.

YMMV

early wrote:
It's going to cost you to have power one way or the other, but solar is an investment like a well and septic tank. In the...

It's going to cost you to have power one way or the other, but solar is an investment like a well and septic tank. In the end it might cost a little more, a little less or basically break even but it becomes an issue of personal responsibility. That's why I think it needs a rebrand, there's a freedom to it.

Free of damage (a semi-tall order) solar panels will work past their 20 year guarantee, likely with some loss of efficiency but not too bad. Other components are underwhelming in their robustness that's for sure. 

The thing is is that realistically electricity generation and battery storage will continue to be incredibly important to the world in the future for an incredible number of things, just think about how many more rechargeable battery operated things you use now compared to the 90s, they are everywhere and opened up lots of possibilities. Remember using a battery powered drill in the 90s? They sucked!

Electricity generation is essential and nuclear should be a good option, but is it a good option for the world? Is the US going to commit to developing nuclear, but then continuously attack countries that are developing their own nuclear energy programs? Nobody ever went to war because a country was building too many solar panels and batteries. 

SEEMEFIRST wrote:
The difference between power generation/medical enrichment and weapons grade enrichment is massive. You can generate power and be no where close to where you need to be...

The difference between power generation/medical enrichment and weapons grade enrichment is massive. 

You can generate power and be no where close to where you need to be to make a nuke.

Bingo

2
1
early
Posts
10109
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH, USA
10/8/2026 11:16am
RDnutz wrote:
so you're basically trying to live off the grid for free? I designed and installed my 1st solar system for a workshop with no power back...

so you're basically trying to live off the grid for free? I designed and installed my 1st solar system for a workshop with no power back in 2000. There's going to be startup costs no matter what term you use, and there will be ongoing costs from there since panels only best case have expected 20 yrs lifespan. Inverters are good for a few years at least- unless you scale up your system regularly. Storage batteries need replacing every couple years and they don't like cold weather or being outside... there's no free ride.

I get the trying to avoid recurring monthly fees as much as possible! Me and the wife always lived below our means and never had kids so that helped going into retirement. Our main emphasis in on lowest possible amount of recurring monthly expenses instead of more $ + debt carried over. We have a decent house with small mortgage, natural gas, Septic system, and an electric co-op. No cable TV (free ANT mostly), cheap monthly trash service flat fee, wife has 1 or 2 cheap streaming subscriptions We have cheap paid for mobile phones and never upgrade, no satellite stuff or gaming. Only average about 5k miles per year at most on our paid for vehicles. No Door Dash home deliveries and make our own coffee at home every morning instead of buying fancy coffee by the cup @ Dunkin or whatever. SS basically pays for that whole lifestyle and we don't feel like we're missing a thing. We save up for property taxes and home insurance in a dedicated account with monthly contributions from IRAs and never worry about $ when we decide to go out and have hobbies. Low-cost lifestyle is achievable, but not everybody has the discipline to make it reality.

YMMV

early wrote:
It's going to cost you to have power one way or the other, but solar is an investment like a well and septic tank. In the...

It's going to cost you to have power one way or the other, but solar is an investment like a well and septic tank. In the end it might cost a little more, a little less or basically break even but it becomes an issue of personal responsibility. That's why I think it needs a rebrand, there's a freedom to it.

Free of damage (a semi-tall order) solar panels will work past their 20 year guarantee, likely with some loss of efficiency but not too bad. Other components are underwhelming in their robustness that's for sure. 

The thing is is that realistically electricity generation and battery storage will continue to be incredibly important to the world in the future for an incredible number of things, just think about how many more rechargeable battery operated things you use now compared to the 90s, they are everywhere and opened up lots of possibilities. Remember using a battery powered drill in the 90s? They sucked!

Electricity generation is essential and nuclear should be a good option, but is it a good option for the world? Is the US going to commit to developing nuclear, but then continuously attack countries that are developing their own nuclear energy programs? Nobody ever went to war because a country was building too many solar panels and batteries. 

SEEMEFIRST wrote:
The difference between power generation/medical enrichment and weapons grade enrichment is massive. You can generate power and be no where close to where you need to be...

The difference between power generation/medical enrichment and weapons grade enrichment is massive. 

You can generate power and be no where close to where you need to be to make a nuke.

We've proven that it doesn't really matter

5
RichieW13
Posts
2521
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
10/8/2026 3:51pm
ToolMaker wrote:
My perfect energy plant has not yet been built. In CA we have vast desert area. We could take a number of acres and build a...

My perfect energy plant has not yet been built. In CA we have vast desert area. We could take a number of acres and build a solar concentration plant. The problem with current designs is, they use mirror lenses to focus on a tank up high. Among other problems, a bird flying by is instantly incinerated. A simple change of lenses to a glass fiber underground grid eliminates all that. No above ground damage. Solar turns water to steam, powers the turbine, cheap energy.

TM

What current designs are using mirror lenses?  The only one I have seen is the Ivanpah facility near Primm, NV.  That has proven to be cost inefficient and they are trying to shut it down. 

Near Mojave, they have installed huge amounts of solar panels in the last year or two, and I haven't seen any of them with the elevated water tanks.

2
RichieW13
Posts
2521
Joined
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Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
10/8/2026 3:56pm
Beta480RX wrote:
Just throwing one small part of the fallacy of wind energy out there...A medium sized wind generator field uses more concrete than the entire annual production...

Just throwing one small part of the fallacy of wind energy out there...

A medium sized wind generator field uses more concrete than the entire annual production of the cement plant that I work at can produce to support said concrete.

That windmill field requires more than 350,000 tons of cement, 2,200MW of electrical power (ours is hydroelectric), 70,000 tons of coal, and 20,000 tons of petroleum coke to produce, and generate metric shit tons (literally) of CO2.

This is all JUST for the foundations of those wind turbines. Before a single bit of the tower is erected. Before all the oil is used to make the tons of carbon fiber required. Or the metric shit tons of ore is mined and smelted to make the copper for the motor windings.

Wind energy is a complete farce once you drill down the energy chain required to produce a single watt of power out of it.

What are you comparing your numbers to?  Just because the turbines use a lot of concrete doesn't automatically mean they are inefficient.  How long will a turbine last?  How many megawatt hours will it produce in a lifetime?  How does that compare to the lifetime megawatt hours of a coal plant, and the related CO2 produced?

2
2
10/8/2026 4:48pm
ToolMaker wrote:
My perfect energy plant has not yet been built. In CA we have vast desert area. We could take a number of acres and build a...

My perfect energy plant has not yet been built. In CA we have vast desert area. We could take a number of acres and build a solar concentration plant. The problem with current designs is, they use mirror lenses to focus on a tank up high. Among other problems, a bird flying by is instantly incinerated. A simple change of lenses to a glass fiber underground grid eliminates all that. No above ground damage. Solar turns water to steam, powers the turbine, cheap energy.

TM

RichieW13 wrote:
What current designs are using mirror lenses?  The only one I have seen is the Ivanpah facility near Primm, NV.  That has proven to be cost...

What current designs are using mirror lenses?  The only one I have seen is the Ivanpah facility near Primm, NV.  That has proven to be cost inefficient and they are trying to shut it down. 

Near Mojave, they have installed huge amounts of solar panels in the last year or two, and I haven't seen any of them with the elevated water tanks.

I think it's closer to Palm Springs than NV, but that's the one I  was thinking of and based my comment on.

1
early
Posts
10109
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH, USA
10/8/2026 8:10pm
ToolMaker wrote:
My perfect energy plant has not yet been built. In CA we have vast desert area. We could take a number of acres and build a...

My perfect energy plant has not yet been built. In CA we have vast desert area. We could take a number of acres and build a solar concentration plant. The problem with current designs is, they use mirror lenses to focus on a tank up high. Among other problems, a bird flying by is instantly incinerated. A simple change of lenses to a glass fiber underground grid eliminates all that. No above ground damage. Solar turns water to steam, powers the turbine, cheap energy.

TM

RichieW13 wrote:
What current designs are using mirror lenses?  The only one I have seen is the Ivanpah facility near Primm, NV.  That has proven to be cost...

What current designs are using mirror lenses?  The only one I have seen is the Ivanpah facility near Primm, NV.  That has proven to be cost inefficient and they are trying to shut it down. 

Near Mojave, they have installed huge amounts of solar panels in the last year or two, and I haven't seen any of them with the elevated water tanks.

ToolMaker wrote:

I think it's closer to Palm Springs than NV, but that's the one I  was thinking of and based my comment on.

Yeah that facility is on 15 not 10 on the way to Vegas. 

There's a PV solar facility right next to it on the California side of the border that's a smaller footprint and puts out a little less electricity, but there's no 2 axis mirror tracking, steam plumbing and turbines, generators, or gas startup turbines to maintain. The focused solar was a cool project but not the future. 

1
2
10/8/2026 8:56pm
RichieW13 wrote:
What current designs are using mirror lenses?  The only one I have seen is the Ivanpah facility near Primm, NV.  That has proven to be cost...

What current designs are using mirror lenses?  The only one I have seen is the Ivanpah facility near Primm, NV.  That has proven to be cost inefficient and they are trying to shut it down. 

Near Mojave, they have installed huge amounts of solar panels in the last year or two, and I haven't seen any of them with the elevated water tanks.

ToolMaker wrote:

I think it's closer to Palm Springs than NV, but that's the one I  was thinking of and based my comment on.

early wrote:
Yeah that facility is on 15 not 10 on the way to Vegas. There's a PV solar facility right next to it on the California side of...

Yeah that facility is on 15 not 10 on the way to Vegas. 

There's a PV solar facility right next to it on the California side of the border that's a smaller footprint and puts out a little less electricity, but there's no 2 axis mirror tracking, steam plumbing and turbines, generators, or gas startup turbines to maintain. The focused solar was a cool project but not the future. 

Ok, so I was incorrect about the location. Life goes on.

TM

1
1
JerryVan
Posts
179
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5/18/2023
Location
Carlisle, WA, AU
10/9/2026 3:25am Edited Date/Time 10/9/2026 3:27am

You don’t see as many peer reviewed journals quoted in these threads as you might expect. 

1
RDnutz
Posts
1023
Joined
2/13/2021
Location
Dolores, CO, USA
10/9/2026 8:31am
JerryVan wrote:

You don’t see as many peer reviewed journals quoted in these threads as you might expect. 

that takes time and effort. in today's world, attention spans seem too short to dedicate time to make a single point.

RDnutz
Posts
1023
Joined
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Location
Dolores, CO, USA
10/9/2026 8:57am
early wrote:
It's going to cost you to have power one way or the other, but solar is an investment like a well and septic tank. In the...

It's going to cost you to have power one way or the other, but solar is an investment like a well and septic tank. In the end it might cost a little more, a little less or basically break even but it becomes an issue of personal responsibility. That's why I think it needs a rebrand, there's a freedom to it.

Free of damage (a semi-tall order) solar panels will work past their 20 year guarantee, likely with some loss of efficiency but not too bad. Other components are underwhelming in their robustness that's for sure. 

The thing is is that realistically electricity generation and battery storage will continue to be incredibly important to the world in the future for an incredible number of things, just think about how many more rechargeable battery operated things you use now compared to the 90s, they are everywhere and opened up lots of possibilities. Remember using a battery powered drill in the 90s? They sucked!

Electricity generation is essential and nuclear should be a good option, but is it a good option for the world? Is the US going to commit to developing nuclear, but then continuously attack countries that are developing their own nuclear energy programs? Nobody ever went to war because a country was building too many solar panels and batteries. 

I'm with you until the last paragraph. No country including USA is running around the world attacking other countries for developing nuclear power programs. INTENT is everything here. North Korea is generally considered a malign actor in many ways but you never heard them announce they wanted to obliterate a regional neighbor or the US when they achieved Nuclear break out status and continue to develop capabilities to fire nuclear capable ICBMs. Contrast that with Iran who has been preaching down with America, down with Israel since 1979. They have killed many hundreds of Americans serving in the middle East with bombings like in Beirut barracks bombing and IEDs elsewhere and launched missile and drone attacks on Israel and are publicly committed to wiping Israel off the face of the Earth and have demonstrated with their actions they will never stop trying. It only takes them once to succeed with nukes. The risk is too great they can pull it off in near future if nobody intervenes 1st.

2
3
early
Posts
10109
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH, USA
10/9/2026 11:17am
early wrote:
It's going to cost you to have power one way or the other, but solar is an investment like a well and septic tank. In the...

It's going to cost you to have power one way or the other, but solar is an investment like a well and septic tank. In the end it might cost a little more, a little less or basically break even but it becomes an issue of personal responsibility. That's why I think it needs a rebrand, there's a freedom to it.

Free of damage (a semi-tall order) solar panels will work past their 20 year guarantee, likely with some loss of efficiency but not too bad. Other components are underwhelming in their robustness that's for sure. 

The thing is is that realistically electricity generation and battery storage will continue to be incredibly important to the world in the future for an incredible number of things, just think about how many more rechargeable battery operated things you use now compared to the 90s, they are everywhere and opened up lots of possibilities. Remember using a battery powered drill in the 90s? They sucked!

Electricity generation is essential and nuclear should be a good option, but is it a good option for the world? Is the US going to commit to developing nuclear, but then continuously attack countries that are developing their own nuclear energy programs? Nobody ever went to war because a country was building too many solar panels and batteries. 

RDnutz wrote:
I'm with you until the last paragraph. No country including USA is running around the world attacking other countries for developing nuclear power programs. INTENT is...

I'm with you until the last paragraph. No country including USA is running around the world attacking other countries for developing nuclear power programs. INTENT is everything here. North Korea is generally considered a malign actor in many ways but you never heard them announce they wanted to obliterate a regional neighbor or the US when they achieved Nuclear break out status and continue to develop capabilities to fire nuclear capable ICBMs. Contrast that with Iran who has been preaching down with America, down with Israel since 1979. They have killed many hundreds of Americans serving in the middle East with bombings like in Beirut barracks bombing and IEDs elsewhere and launched missile and drone attacks on Israel and are publicly committed to wiping Israel off the face of the Earth and have demonstrated with their actions they will never stop trying. It only takes them once to succeed with nukes. The risk is too great they can pull it off in near future if nobody intervenes 1st.

I'm not going to get into it too far out of respect for the forum rules but like I said before, if you watch the video the guy really discounts how much geopolitical influence energy resources hold. Producing and harnessing energy is the cornerstone of civilization. Everything gets better cheaper and easier the more energy you have, on the flip side everything gets harder more expensive and worse when energy is cut off.  

Do we think that in 10, 20, 50, 100 years fossil fuels will be easier to obtain to produce the world's electricity? Do we think nuclear will be implemented around the world in that time? Do we think solar and other renewables with battery storage will be a crucial part of the world's electricity generation and implementation? 

A crazy stat is that if we took the 30 million acres that is used to grow the corn that is used for ethanol (not feed or sweet corn) and put solar panels on it you could generate almost 1.5X how much electricity is used in the US.

1
2
RDnutz
Posts
1023
Joined
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Location
Dolores, CO, USA
10/9/2026 1:37pm
early wrote:
I'm not going to get into it too far out of respect for the forum rules but like I said before, if you watch the video...

I'm not going to get into it too far out of respect for the forum rules but like I said before, if you watch the video the guy really discounts how much geopolitical influence energy resources hold. Producing and harnessing energy is the cornerstone of civilization. Everything gets better cheaper and easier the more energy you have, on the flip side everything gets harder more expensive and worse when energy is cut off.  

Do we think that in 10, 20, 50, 100 years fossil fuels will be easier to obtain to produce the world's electricity? Do we think nuclear will be implemented around the world in that time? Do we think solar and other renewables with battery storage will be a crucial part of the world's electricity generation and implementation? 

A crazy stat is that if we took the 30 million acres that is used to grow the corn that is used for ethanol (not feed or sweet corn) and put solar panels on it you could generate almost 1.5X how much electricity is used in the US.

there's no question nuclear POWER generation has to be part of the mix- and it already is in many counties (including USA), but you can't dodge the military uses (bombs) like it doesn't exist. We're the only country to use them and then only attempting to bring a faster end to WW2. Unlike Russia and North Korea we've never threatened to use them again. We know basically how many countries have the military capabilities to use them in the future. Iran unquestionably wants to develop or acquire them and will use on Israel to achieve their stated goal of wiping Israel off the face of the earth. Other middle Eastern nations like Saudi Arabia have stated they will then have to have nukes too if Iran gets them. The world will be a better place if Iran is stopped from getting even a single nuke weapon and it may not be pretty or easy but nonetheless needs to be done.

2
2
10/10/2026 3:20am
early wrote:
I'm not going to get into it too far out of respect for the forum rules but like I said before, if you watch the video...

I'm not going to get into it too far out of respect for the forum rules but like I said before, if you watch the video the guy really discounts how much geopolitical influence energy resources hold. Producing and harnessing energy is the cornerstone of civilization. Everything gets better cheaper and easier the more energy you have, on the flip side everything gets harder more expensive and worse when energy is cut off.  

Do we think that in 10, 20, 50, 100 years fossil fuels will be easier to obtain to produce the world's electricity? Do we think nuclear will be implemented around the world in that time? Do we think solar and other renewables with battery storage will be a crucial part of the world's electricity generation and implementation? 

A crazy stat is that if we took the 30 million acres that is used to grow the corn that is used for ethanol (not feed or sweet corn) and put solar panels on it you could generate almost 1.5X how much electricity is used in the US.

I've said from the beginning that the corn ethanol deal was a scam.... After all the energy input and CO2 emissions making the ethanol, you get a roughly 30% drop in mileage due to the energy density of the fuel vs pure gasoline with E85. Not only that, but here at least, E85 isn't 30% cheaper than E10. 

Lastly, I never agreed with causing competition for acreage between food and motor fuel production. Food production will lose every time, as motor fuels offer higher value per acre, especially with the market rigged with blend percentage mandates and renewable fuels mandates. 

3
1Burrdog
Posts
47
Joined
2/7/2024
Location
South coast, NSW, AU
10/10/2026 3:53pm
ToolMaker wrote:
My perfect energy plant has not yet been built. In CA we have vast desert area. We could take a number of acres and build a...

My perfect energy plant has not yet been built. In CA we have vast desert area. We could take a number of acres and build a solar concentration plant. The problem with current designs is, they use mirror lenses to focus on a tank up high. Among other problems, a bird flying by is instantly incinerated. A simple change of lenses to a glass fiber underground grid eliminates all that. No above ground damage. Solar turns water to steam, powers the turbine, cheap energy.

TM

RichieW13 wrote:
What current designs are using mirror lenses?  The only one I have seen is the Ivanpah facility near Primm, NV.  That has proven to be cost...

What current designs are using mirror lenses?  The only one I have seen is the Ivanpah facility near Primm, NV.  That has proven to be cost inefficient and they are trying to shut it down. 

Near Mojave, they have installed huge amounts of solar panels in the last year or two, and I haven't seen any of them with the elevated water tanks.

There was an attempt for a mirror lens/solar boost facility here in Australia at Kogan Creek that has a coal fired power station, a complete and utter failure, $150M down the drain. My brother was working at the power station as one of the engineers and they all said the same thing............it aint gunna work.

Kogan Creek Solar Boost Final Report - Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA)

 That said I am totally off grid where I live for more than 10 plus years, my choice as it is not feasible to get mains power where I live, and my three and a half year old solar system just shit itself last week. Lucky it is under warranty but at the moment I am running the generator (fossil fuel lol) to charge the batteries🤡 

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