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If Mookie comes in and finishes right in front of Marchbanks every race, are you going to blame the bike? He’s a 5-8 place guy most weekends currently so he should slot right in where he’s at now
I think your last sentence explains why fans have been so divided on this topic. Some (including myself) don’t care about who was “correct”, we saw Prado’s piss poor attitude last year and criticized him as such because it was nothing but unprofessional. While others seem to think him getting back to top form and showing that the bike didn’t work for him justifies his attitude last year. Personally I don’t think it does but everyone has a right to their opinion.
In the end having another guy capable of winning is nothing but a positive for everyone but I still think the criticism last year was valid.
Bikes aside, a massive factor of success is confidence. Prado simply didn’t have it on Kawi and went back to what he always knew/was a proven system for him. Chase proved the bike can win even while not having full confidence in the new bike and program. Whether you like Kawi or not, it is still beneficial for the sport to have them in the mix.
As the old saying goes two things can be true at once. He didn’t like the bike and he gave up.
While there is no excuse for a high paid athlete to give up, he did ride awesome this season!
You don’t have to fall completely on one side or the other.
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Exactly
Two years in a row Kawi has had a top guy in the world not complete a season on their bike. That says enough alone.
Chase has said he’s never felt more uncomfortable, also seems like the bike malfunction took him out for the season.
And obvious bike malfunction that the team manager is denying nevertheless
If you were one of the best in the world at a job and now your reputation of being the best is getting ruined because you dont have the right tools and your employer wont let you leave due to a contract you would be ok to just keep on working??
You wouldn’t do everything you could to get out of that situation for something more suited to your needs?
Pretty sure if kawi just agreed to part ways none of this would have been a thing, we will never know but it seems kawi probably promised him the world on signing but never delivered. The guy litrally lost millions to do what he did.
I mean, it was ugly, no doubt about it, but Prado definitely did not believe he could win on that bike, and ultimately got out of the contract so as to not waste perhaps the most critical window of his career, and he has to take care of himself and his career b/c no one else is going to. But as was already said, the proof is in the pudding. The guy is uber talented and his self belief seems to be pretty unshakable. I was pulling for him to win this thing and he put on a perfect 20 minute final moto to win with all the chips on the table-fucking impressive bottom line.
Just taking what you said and agreeing: if it is capable of being in or near the top 5, it seems to me that it is way more likely that bike setup expertise and management are the issue, not the bike.
Listen, Jason Thomas told me both things can be true…..
Jorge Prado is a champion this year, but Jorge Prado quit last year.
In Gypsy tales with Febvre they talk a little about the Kawi situation with Prado. Febvre & Prado aren’t friends but just talking about his thoughts on it. He doesn’t seem to know much about the US spec bike but he did think his is quite a bit different. Sounded to me like Prado rode the euro spec bike then when he got to America he’s like this is not what I rode , make it like that & they just couldn’t get it there.
Been a while since I listened ^^
I don't necessarily agree with it only being the mechanics etc. The Yamaha when Stewart started, wasn't great from what I understand. It was good for normal riders and got plenty of top 5s. It took quite a few years to get it where it is today. So, I think it's mainly management and stuff, but still some bike issues as well. Jmho
It almost happened, but the sponsor he was working with never worked out to get the money.
Trey Canards best finish on KTM was an 8th in supercross and a 12th outdoors. Maybe he just didn't gel with the bike coming off the Honda. He was completely professional in the way he handled the results that were considerably below expectations.
Was not aware of that.
That's the interesting thing, it wasn't anything regulated by the production rule in the case of the Yamaha. Supposedly it was a lighter crank, and hybrid forks that made the difference.
In the case of the Kawasaki, I heard on some podcast that some guys run a different frame, but not all. What they do run is a different length swingarm.
Pit Row
You are probably meaning the linkage. You can't run a different frame or swingarm in the US. They can weld and make them flex more or less, but can't change angles or lengths, of the actual frame or swingarm. Just change triples or linkages to make them feel different. Thus, there is a new Kawi 450 coming.
They can't run different swingarms, but they can run the axle as far back as the adjustment allows...
I agree, this doesn't fall fully on Kawasaki. As a top-tier athlete with large contracts, agents, etc. it is the responsibility of the rider to appreciate the bike he will be riding before signing the contract. He was not a guy just accepting any factory bike that would throw him an offer just to get something inked, he was a champion wanting to keep winning championships. No doubt he rode the bike and had to decide how it felt and HE made that decision.
Not to take away from the thread, he has turned around the titanic here and that is fantastic, but his issues last year - he owns a good chunk of it too.
Yes, correct. I have seen it, both all the way short or all the way longer. I've even seen bearings on front triple clamps being odd shaped.
I don’t think his attitude was really that bad. He asked them to improve it for months and he said they were working hard for quite some time before losing faith.
To recap it all again and give my view.
Imagine you ride a buddies bike, it’s set up for him, bars aren’t adjusted, sags not adjusted, etc, you go wow it felt pretty good considering it’s not even dialed in for me. Surely if it’s tailored to me it could come a long way, right?
That’s probably how he felt riding the kawi, first test was, well it’s not perfect but surely in 2-3 months of testing with a professional team they can improve it right? And I’m sure they promised with all their big egos that they could deliver. Sadly he found out all they could deliver was lies. Once he got into testing with them and saw nothing improved, what we he to do? Waste his best years with a trash team, who were trashing his image, blasting him on social media etc all to save themselves.
They probably “remapped” the ecu and said here’s the rocket you asked for, and it wasn’t even close to what he wanted. Took them until mid summer to see what Europe had been doing and give him a decent engine. Nearly a year after he would likely have ridden it in a test. Easily 8 months too late to “start trying now”
They took way too long, delivered way too little, and by then they lost Jorge’s trust, belief, and enthusiasm.
Even after “overnighting” countless engines in testing, twisted development in their first try built a better package than team kawi had the entire time.
Jorge exposed them for what they are. A bunch of Peter principle hacks. More ego than talent. More ego than drive.
He didn’t quit. He merely exposed them for being incompetent.
I strongly believe that Prado and Chase didn't fully see the bike's ugly head until it was subject to race conditions, which you can only do after you sign on the dotted line..
Governor Arnold, since you have his stats handy, can you also give us a list of the injuries he dealt with during his stay with Ktm.
Why do you continue to re-litigate last year? You're obviously one of his biggest fans but you're not doing him any favors bringing this up over and over again. He made an ass of himself last year. He turned it around and had a much better year this year, move on.
Because the masses keep bringing it up with low resolution points
Yep, some people get along with certain bikes and some don't. Herlings took his bike to Ironman in 2017...
Prado was honest all year about the struggles. With no improvements on the bike there is no confidence to go warp speed. In the current field you need to be fully confident and gel with the bike to get some sort of decent result. Top 3 you need to be fully confident, commited and one with the bike.
They promised a rocketship and gave him a dumpster truck
I'm not sure how this whole thing is even controversial. Everything Prado said was 100% true and he had no issue or filter saying what was on his mind which everyone begs these riders to do. None of the typical "the bike is great" crap when you clearly see it isn't. It was surprising, awkward, and refreshing at the same time. Now we have a second top tier rider echoing the same claims as Prado. Past history with other riders on the team echoes the same sentiments as these guys today. The dude bet on himself, put his reputation on the line, and put all the "excuses" or reasons why he couldn't win to the forefront of his results. The bet paid off and he was 100% correct. He backed up his claims.
Did he possibly go about it the wrong way? YES.
Did his demeanor come off as whining? YES
Was he telling the honest truth about the situation? YES
Did he try and get out of the contract by pulling some stunts and putting his reputation on the line? YES
Did he back up all his claims about riding to his full potential on a different bike? YES
Did he feel safe riding comfortably at his all out speed? NO
Was he willing to push himself on a bike/team that didn't gel with his riding style? NO
Can every pro racer ride any mfg bike and go fast? YES
Can every pro racer ride to their 100% ability and feel safe on every mfg bike? NO
They can run different swingarms, they just can’t be one off. They have to be homologated from another production year.
. Maybe that’s what you meant? But as long as it’s production based for one of their bikes, they can use it.
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