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I mean, I'm not going to stamp anything or go all-in on some polymarket... but I get the weird feeling someone at Kawi heard whispers about displacement rule changes somewhere and they developed that bike the way it is as a result. It's too random to be that random. This isn't the 70s anymore where kooky things were just produced to see if theyd sell.
This is a negatory
They should just allow 350 or maybe even 450 2t in the 450 class and 250s in the 250 class. It won't affect the top 20 much. At the factory level the 4t has too many inherent advantages like a 2-4k rpm range where they make max hp vs a very short rpm range where a 2t makes max power. There is also the extra 4t traction/stability on power, the engine braking that plants the front end in corners and the way the engine delivers power that allows the rear end to skip over bumps easier. I get the 2t is cheaper to rebuild and in the 250 class it may allow some privateers to get closer to a factory 250f in peak power but again it just won't make much of a difference. It might allow a few 2ts to make the mains which would be cool, but I don't know why manufacturers would care about that.
GNCC has allowed equal displacement forever, and everyone in XC1 and XC2 race 4ts. I think there is one 250 2t in the XC2 class this year, and that is mostly because Beta doesn't have a 250f yet.
You may be correct. I always thought Honda got snookered on the 150R under the mistaken belief (rumor-mill) that mini’s would move to 4-stroke. Yamaha was reportedly already working on a 150—that never materialized. Playing the rumor didn’t work out so well for Honda.
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I highly doubt the rules will allow it.
Also, my friend at Kawasaki says the bike was specifically designed for offroad and vet riders, not for pro racing.
The classes are still 125cc and 250cc with a ridiculously outdated "Double-displacement Rule" in place for 4-stroke machines. MX Sports keep this rule in place at the AMA Nationals.
It was developed for the off-road market
This happened in or around 2008-2009ish There is/was a works Yamaha YZ350F (supposedly) that Yamaha built for Cairoli based on Luongo (Sr) talking about dropping MXGP down to 350 to make 2 strokes relevant again. It may have been right around or just before the decision to reverse the engine and go EFI was made.
The other MFGs pushed back, it never happened, and Cairoli signed with KTM, the rest is history.
Speaking of the CRF150R.. if I was Honda, I would approach AFT (American Flat Track) with a video of the 140/190 Cup races that MotoAmerica is currently doing, and propose a 150R Cup class for AFT. The only issue is that Honda only has a presence in Pro singles, not pro twin.
I think Honda is missing a marketing opportunity for their Africa Twin , as is Triumph for their adventure bike, by not being involved in AFT.
Allow me to introduce the gorgeous ZX6R.
Introduced in 1995 as 599cc legal to race supersport. Then from 2003 to 2009 it got famously bumped to 636cc. It was a wonderful bike, over 130 hp for about 360 lbs. But the supersport rules did not change, it was not allowed to race. Therefore at the same time Kawasaki had to make the ZX6RR. One extra R, 37cc less.
It made no business sense so in 2009, after 6 model years of running both ZX6R and ZX6RR, they went back to 599cc.
Finally, they've switched back to 636 and it became legal to race... in 2025, after complete revamping of the supersport category. It only took 22 years so keep your hopes up!
Also can't see Kawasaki supporting 2 competing models at the pro level so that's not gonna happen (except for enduro).
I think Honda is supporting a team in the twins class in flat track racing, pretty sure. Might have have won a race on a mile track last year.
That's the market where the money is for two strokes.
Also…
There are too many other OEMs that -don’t- have a modern competitive 2 stroke…they’d prevent the AMA/FIM from allowing them to compete in a fair and open environment in the premier class/classes.
Suzuki and Honda are the only ones not offering a two stroke anymore. Correct?
To be flat: The YZ is a bit dated compared to the Austrian and Kawasaki offerings.
So, I think the brands that wouldn’t go along with this are..
Honda
Suzuki
Yamaha (I’m thinking they’d probably say “no” unless they’re willing to invest in the YZ engine design)
Triumph
Ducati
Absolutely. That's also where the AMA is at (though not FIM) concerning electrics.
Doesn't matter if it's 2T or electrics, OEMs makes the game and AMA rules are unlikely to change unless it pleases them.
I had Tom Morgan build me a 327 Kawi. It was a great running bike that was very crisp.
At the time I also had a 250 and 450 4 stroke.
It is impossible to have the entire rpm range of usable power on a two stroke.
Nothing better than hearing 2 strokes running around a mx track.
Just my opinion. I did enjoy riding 125’s as you could flick it around like a bicycle.
I also feel like when 4 strokes came out, it took away some skill level and evened out the field a bit.
Baylor said they tried a few different displacements and 327 was the preferred power curve
I wouldn't mind seeing them make the 450 class just straight up open class. Everyone always says no one is using the true potential of a 450. Tomac is the only one asking for more power and yet, he still doesn't ride the bike like a 250, he gives it respect. Just make it open, let the manufacturers push their limits, let the electric in, let big bore 2 strokes in, and let the riders choose what suits them. I feel like the bikes today are limited more by traction than power anyways.
Pit Row
Everyone would Be on an electric. I’m not even an electric fan boy, but the power spread, torque, traction, lack of vibration would make it an absolute no contest. Only way is if it can’t finish a pro moto due to battery life, but add 10% more battery the weight still won’t be enough to make it a negative: the bikes are disgustingly easy to ride and corner and make insane power: add in zero vibration zero shifting no clutch and the fatigue you save is nuts.
Did the Starks win at WSX where they already had an advantage due to elevations effect on engines?
Hold on, electrics are competitive and obviously they'll only get better, I agree.
Stark won races in AX UK, France SX tour but they've just had their first WSX podium, they haven't even won a race at this level yet. I'd say their known riders like Friese or Hicks are more or less where they would finish on gas bikes. A first podium is not like they're dominating the field.
As for range, they race France MX Elite 25+2 no problem but they won't be tested on 30+2 until the AMA lets them race.
No, but they also didn't have Cooper Webb riding them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj0OBtTyCbw&pp=ygUSZWxpIHRvbWFjIG1pbGx2aWxl
Respect was not given this day.
I have absolutely no argument for that lol!
lol exactly. If you’ve spent some time on a stark or even an Alta you’d understand what I’m saying.
Amateurs typically only need a few laps to get faster on the Varg. Removing some technical aspects related to clutch and shifting helps "normal" riders, without perfect technique, and remove "distractions" to let them focus purely on riding : lines, body position and so on.
This doesn't really matter for pros who are already riding very close to the max potential of their gas bike, perfect clutch timing, lighting fast shifting at the right time all the time, perfect lines, body position and getting the maximum traction available in all conditions. They don't need more brain power available cause it's already ingrained in them. But then extracting the maximum of a different kind of power train requires them to retrain their brain, to adapt their riding style to new characteristics, new balance, 40 lbs heavier bike, immediate torque without revving to the moon, less inertia, no clutch to launch in the whoops and so on. They can absolutely learn to tune their riding to the bike but the benefit of switching is typically longer than for amateurs.
For instance take Friese WSX results : 3rd in 2022, 4th in 2023, 4th in 2024, 12th for his first year on the Varg in 2025.
On the other hand I think Hicks is a natural, he already owned an Alta and was riding all kinds of pit bikes, gas and electric, he was basically as fast on the Varg as on his Yamaha the first time he jumped on it the year he was racing both in AMA AX.
I am not saying electric would dominate or anything.
But to be clear: Those aren't open class either. The FIM Starks are pretty severely power-restricted -- remember the Michael Hicks penalty for exceeding the HP limit for a fractional second? They also have a 257 lb weight min -- 37 lbs more than the 450s, literally needing to add weight to those factory Starks to race.
more than likely a big no. the 327's odd size fits the off road scene and vet racing where discplacement isnt the class factor.
To be fair I think the 117 kg / 257 lbs minimum weight for electrics in WSX is the Varg weight, so they're not adding any ballast. But yes the disadvantages of electrics, like being much heavier (about 40 lbs difference in minimum weight) can get lost in the conversation.
Ballast was indeed required of them earlier in SuperEnduro and it was ridiculous. Eventually the FIM reduced the minimum weight multiple times during the year, ending down to 113 kg / 249 lbs meaning Stark could now actually shed some weight compared to the production bike. Which they might be doing using a battery pack with less cells since Superenduro races are far from taxing in this regard.
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