Team Green Failure

7/15/2026 6:13pm
CPR wrote:
Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by...

Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by an Aussie kid on a Yami.

IMG 4410 3.jpeg?VersionId=RcxC43gxc0aPwfeol ycgfvx5C

Looked like an off the shelf GYTR kit on it as well. I did notice he switched pipes from a GYTR to the PC pipe like Townley and Coppins kids bikes.

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CPR
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7/15/2026 6:19pm
CPR wrote:
Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by...

Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by an Aussie kid on a Yami.

IMG 4410 3.jpeg?VersionId=RcxC43gxc0aPwfeol ycgfvx5C
Looked like an off the shelf GYTR kit on it as well. I did notice he switched pipes from a GYTR to the PC pipe like...

Looked like an off the shelf GYTR kit on it as well. I did notice he switched pipes from a GYTR to the PC pipe like Townley and Coppins kids bikes.

From experience the PC pipe has better top end, so maybe they swap depending on the track.

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Zoom
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7/15/2026 8:22pm
As far as supermini's go. Kawasaki has made a lot of changes to the 2027 model KX85 & 112 most notably the chassis and rider triangle...

As far as supermini's go. Kawasaki has made a lot of changes to the 2027 model KX85 & 112 most notably the chassis and rider triangle which was horrendous on the KX BUT these can't be ridden as they won't allow the next years models to be raced at LL's.

Yamaha for memory can't bore out the 85 to 105/112 due to the power valve. They have got the 85 going quite good though. They just won the Jnr World MX titles with the young Australian kid.

Tace Morgan and Cooper Johnsnon on the Yamaha's are one of the favorite's to win the supermini class.

Actually, those changes were made to the 26 model. It just had a late release of January this year. So, they are eligible to be raced at the National Championship.

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joshd
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7/15/2026 8:55pm
CPR wrote:
Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by...

Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by an Aussie kid on a Yami.

IMG 4410 3.jpeg?VersionId=RcxC43gxc0aPwfeol ycgfvx5C

Very good point. I think more of the issue is, well look at Drew Adams. He was kawi’s next big thing and Mitch has yanked him around. 

This is no hate to Mitch, he needs to at least have a say in these kids getting these rides. If my son was an up and coming star and why had 3 contracts on the table Kawi would be my last choice. There is no path to the pros with them. 

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The Shop

7/15/2026 9:54pm
CPR wrote:
Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by...

Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by an Aussie kid on a Yami.

IMG 4410 3.jpeg?VersionId=RcxC43gxc0aPwfeol ycgfvx5C

On a hard pack track with a bike tuned to an inch of its life . Kids probably a freakishly talented rider as well.


From where I’m sitting , the yz isn’t much better than the kx.    I think a lot of good amateurs stateside jumped ship because they were worried about the impending merger / bankruptcy. After that it was largely sheep mentality. The pretty fast and sorta fast following what the ultra fast were doing . 

The kids winning on blue and green bikes ( and one kid on a yellow one ) are winning because they are the best in the world , believe they can make up the difference , and the bikes are out on the edge tuning wise .


The larger issue is the sad but impossible to ignore state of amateur racing .

The paradigm of return on investment has shifted drastically since covid and probably a bit before that . Why buy the milk when the cow is free , so to speak . The parents will pay . They will develop junior . Why buy in now ? 

That’s everywhere culturally now - not just motocross . 


 

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jazza167
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7/15/2026 10:06pm
CPR wrote:
Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by...

Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by an Aussie kid on a Yami.

IMG 4410 3.jpeg?VersionId=RcxC43gxc0aPwfeol ycgfvx5C

And a kiwi kid on a yammy before that….

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8tensolutions
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7/15/2026 10:28pm

I don't see the point in the amateur support from the manufacturers anymore.  There is no loyalty from them or little Billy.  Little Billy gets a slightly better offer from 85's to 250's on Yamaha or KTM and he bails even if on Kawi since 65's.  On the other side, little Billy moves up to the B class, has a couple injuries and misses his key Lorettas season, and they drop him anyway.  It's all what have you done for me lately and none of the teams have a strong path to the pros like they used to.

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jazza167
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7/15/2026 11:16pm
CPR wrote:
Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by...

Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by an Aussie kid on a Yami.

IMG 4410 3.jpeg?VersionId=RcxC43gxc0aPwfeol ycgfvx5C
joshd wrote:
Very good point. I think more of the issue is, well look at Drew Adams. He was kawi’s next big thing and Mitch has yanked him...

Very good point. I think more of the issue is, well look at Drew Adams. He was kawi’s next big thing and Mitch has yanked him around. 

This is no hate to Mitch, he needs to at least have a say in these kids getting these rides. If my son was an up and coming star and why had 3 contracts on the table Kawi would be my last choice. There is no path to the pros with them. 

What promise has drew shown since going pro? Nothing deserving of a factory ride in my eyes anyway. More of a club/bar x level guy. 

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7/16/2026 12:23am
CPR wrote:
Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by...

Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by an Aussie kid on a Yami.

IMG 4410 3.jpeg?VersionId=RcxC43gxc0aPwfeol ycgfvx5C
On a hard pack track with a bike tuned to an inch of its life . Kids probably a freakishly talented rider as well.From where I’m...

On a hard pack track with a bike tuned to an inch of its life . Kids probably a freakishly talented rider as well.


From where I’m sitting , the yz isn’t much better than the kx.    I think a lot of good amateurs stateside jumped ship because they were worried about the impending merger / bankruptcy. After that it was largely sheep mentality. The pretty fast and sorta fast following what the ultra fast were doing . 

The kids winning on blue and green bikes ( and one kid on a yellow one ) are winning because they are the best in the world , believe they can make up the difference , and the bikes are out on the edge tuning wise .


The larger issue is the sad but impossible to ignore state of amateur racing .

The paradigm of return on investment has shifted drastically since covid and probably a bit before that . Why buy the milk when the cow is free , so to speak . The parents will pay . They will develop junior . Why buy in now ? 

That’s everywhere culturally now - not just motocross . 


 

considering Levi Townley did it on a YZ85 2 years ago in the sand as well , seems they go pretty good, 

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7/16/2026 12:38am

Austrian 85s have won the world championship 15 times in the past 20 years. 

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joshd
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7/16/2026 5:17am
CPR wrote:
Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by...

Kawi issues aside, I regularly hear that you have to be on an Austrian 85 to be competitive, meanwhile the world title was just won by an Aussie kid on a Yami.

IMG 4410 3.jpeg?VersionId=RcxC43gxc0aPwfeol ycgfvx5C
joshd wrote:
Very good point. I think more of the issue is, well look at Drew Adams. He was kawi’s next big thing and Mitch has yanked him...

Very good point. I think more of the issue is, well look at Drew Adams. He was kawi’s next big thing and Mitch has yanked him around. 

This is no hate to Mitch, he needs to at least have a say in these kids getting these rides. If my son was an up and coming star and why had 3 contracts on the table Kawi would be my last choice. There is no path to the pros with them. 

jazza167 wrote:

What promise has drew shown since going pro? Nothing deserving of a factory ride in my eyes anyway. More of a club/bar x level guy. 

Not much but you missed my point. 

3strokemx
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7/16/2026 5:31am Edited Date/Time 7/16/2026 7:02am

Maybe Kawasaki felt like they dodged a bullet because they could have been a defendant in the Zingg lawsuit?  It's risky enough to get ROI in youth sports/ amateur racing without adding lawsuits to the equation.

 

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7/16/2026 6:39am

Team Green's success spans across decades. So they have have a change of focus and overnight they are a failure? Kawasaki is much more than  kids racing minis. They went to number 1 in overall sales last year in the US. That is huge. 

 Loyalty doesn't seem to be there anymore. Use the Team Green program going through the ranks and get scooped up my another manufacturer. That seems like a lot of time and money wasted.

On the other side of  Team Green (off-road) Kawasaki has made investments with riders contesting the GNCC and Naional Enduro Championship offering great exposure and growth in that segment (and where people are buying their motorcycles, not just looking for handouts).

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7/16/2026 6:50am

From late 90's-2010 if your kid wasn't on a Kawasaki or Suzuki during their mini career, you weren't cool. Because their amateur contingency programs paid the highest by a long shot. I wasn't cool, I rode Yamaha. I wanted a bike that never broke, and wasn't competitive enough yet to care about contingency.

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ohh_454
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7/16/2026 7:07am

Carson Wood and Dudney were team green kids. RyderD was kind of slow to get going in pros but had issues getting a pro contract with PC/Kawi. Mitch could have those 3 guys right now and have young blood on his team. Kawi supposedly wants older guys on Mitch’s team and that doesn’t seem to be working out too great. 

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Toste
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7/16/2026 7:40am

Fans focus a lot on the "farm system" aspect of the amateur teams, as a pipeline to the OEM's pro factory effort, but I think that's more of a byproduct of why those programs were created, not the primary goal. I believe amateur support has declined because well attended local/regional racing isn't really a thing anymore. A & B riders can be local heroes and sell bikes/product even if they don't pan out as pros, but the prospective customers have to be there for it to make sense to the OEMs. For example, It was probably much easier for Team Green to justify their efforts when many of their riders were doing Golden State/Trans-Cal series in addition to Ponca, LL, World Mini GP, etc. That's probably 30 races with a lot of attention from actual racing participants (i.e. customers), not just casual spectators in a stadium. These kids now are (understandably) just doing the bigger races and their qualifiers which is terrible ROI from the Am teams' perspective.

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El Capitan
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7/16/2026 7:51am

The only people I see on KX65’s are adults hooning around turn tracks. I am not kidding. Apparently, this is a ‘thing.’ 

Toste
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7/16/2026 8:05am
El Capitan wrote:

The only people I see on KX65’s are adults hooning around turn tracks. I am not kidding. Apparently, this is a ‘thing.’ 

During the pitbike craze I never understood guys spending $10K on hopped up KLXs/DRZs when a Craigslist KX60 with tall bars would do the same thing, but better in every single way. 🤷

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JMCR250
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7/16/2026 10:29am
3strokemx wrote:
Maybe Kawasaki felt like they dodged a bullet because they could have been a defendant in the Zingg lawsuit?  It's risky enough to get ROI in...

Maybe Kawasaki felt like they dodged a bullet because they could have been a defendant in the Zingg lawsuit?  It's risky enough to get ROI in youth sports/ amateur racing without adding lawsuits to the equation.

 

I wonder if this factor doesn't play a role.  The Japanese companies are all very conservative and have a well-reasoned fear of U.S. product liability lawsuits.  The idea of a young kid suffering a catastrophic injury that might result in a substantial jury verdict against one of these companies has to be part of the equation they consider in determining how and to what extent they want to invest/participate in youth amateur racing.

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El Capitan
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7/16/2026 11:33am
El Capitan wrote:

The only people I see on KX65’s are adults hooning around turn tracks. I am not kidding. Apparently, this is a ‘thing.’ 

Toste wrote:
During the pitbike craze I never understood guys spending $10K on hopped up KLXs/DRZs when a Craigslist KX60 with tall bars would do the same thing...

During the pitbike craze I never understood guys spending $10K on hopped up KLXs/DRZs when a Craigslist KX60 with tall bars would do the same thing, but better in every single way. 🤷

I agree completely. It’s got me searching marketplace every night…. 😅

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7/16/2026 11:46am
El Capitan wrote:

The only people I see on KX65’s are adults hooning around turn tracks. I am not kidding. Apparently, this is a ‘thing.’ 

Toste wrote:
During the pitbike craze I never understood guys spending $10K on hopped up KLXs/DRZs when a Craigslist KX60 with tall bars would do the same thing...

During the pitbike craze I never understood guys spending $10K on hopped up KLXs/DRZs when a Craigslist KX60 with tall bars would do the same thing, but better in every single way. 🤷

El Capitan wrote:

I agree completely. It’s got me searching marketplace every night…. 😅

I ditched my Klx 110 after riding a Klx 140 for a couple laps on the turn track. Bought two Klx 140’s and love them. Not banging my knees into the bars anymore and feels like a big bike. Bone stock and fun to battle with your friends. 

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jettlover
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7/16/2026 1:59pm Edited Date/Time 7/16/2026 2:00pm
On a hard pack track with a bike tuned to an inch of its life . Kids probably a freakishly talented rider as well.From where I’m...

On a hard pack track with a bike tuned to an inch of its life . Kids probably a freakishly talented rider as well.


From where I’m sitting , the yz isn’t much better than the kx.    I think a lot of good amateurs stateside jumped ship because they were worried about the impending merger / bankruptcy. After that it was largely sheep mentality. The pretty fast and sorta fast following what the ultra fast were doing . 

The kids winning on blue and green bikes ( and one kid on a yellow one ) are winning because they are the best in the world , believe they can make up the difference , and the bikes are out on the edge tuning wise .


The larger issue is the sad but impossible to ignore state of amateur racing .

The paradigm of return on investment has shifted drastically since covid and probably a bit before that . Why buy the milk when the cow is free , so to speak . The parents will pay . They will develop junior . Why buy in now ? 

That’s everywhere culturally now - not just motocross . 


 

The YZ is far closer to the KTM than the KX is to the YZ.

We have multiples of all 3 on our team. My boy is fastest on the YZ

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1
7/16/2026 2:32pm
On a hard pack track with a bike tuned to an inch of its life . Kids probably a freakishly talented rider as well.From where I’m...

On a hard pack track with a bike tuned to an inch of its life . Kids probably a freakishly talented rider as well.


From where I’m sitting , the yz isn’t much better than the kx.    I think a lot of good amateurs stateside jumped ship because they were worried about the impending merger / bankruptcy. After that it was largely sheep mentality. The pretty fast and sorta fast following what the ultra fast were doing . 

The kids winning on blue and green bikes ( and one kid on a yellow one ) are winning because they are the best in the world , believe they can make up the difference , and the bikes are out on the edge tuning wise .


The larger issue is the sad but impossible to ignore state of amateur racing .

The paradigm of return on investment has shifted drastically since covid and probably a bit before that . Why buy the milk when the cow is free , so to speak . The parents will pay . They will develop junior . Why buy in now ? 

That’s everywhere culturally now - not just motocross . 


 

jettlover wrote:
The YZ is far closer to the KTM than the KX is to the YZ.We have multiples of all 3 on our team. My boy is...

The YZ is far closer to the KTM than the KX is to the YZ.

We have multiples of all 3 on our team. My boy is fastest on the YZ

That’s fascinating, testing them side by side . My kid rode a yz once in a pinch when his tm broke and he said it was unbelievably slow and had almost no pipe hit .  But maybe they had the power valve adjusted weird or some weird jetting on it.

h20
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7/16/2026 3:58pm
Sully wrote:
I think they've shot themselves in the foot with their amateur to pro contracts over the past few years. I could be wrong, but the last...

I think they've shot themselves in the foot with their amateur to pro contracts over the past few years. I could be wrong, but the last kid I remember with a direct am. to PC contract was Forkner or maybe Hammaker. These families have to see the  way Adams and Temmerman have been treated with pro contracts and not want anything to do with it. 

This is true with all teams.  

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7/16/2026 9:05pm

You dont ask a kid which bike he thinks is faster. You take lap times and watch him ride them.  You tell the kid which one he rides the best.  A kid is gonna tell you that he needs whichever one is more expensive and has cool graphics or parts on it.  Even most pros dont know shit.  Let alone a kid.  

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7/18/2026 12:03am
You dont ask a kid which bike he thinks is faster. You take lap times and watch him ride them.  You tell the kid which one...

You dont ask a kid which bike he thinks is faster. You take lap times and watch him ride them.  You tell the kid which one he rides the best.  A kid is gonna tell you that he needs whichever one is more expensive and has cool graphics or parts on it.  Even most pros dont know shit.  Let alone a kid.  

Well- this was in a race , and the results spoke for themselves . 

 

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7/18/2026 12:04am

Also the Austrian bike was a huge step up for him then the tm . Which was cool but didn’t handle. 

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MXRalph
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7/18/2026 7:46am

Also the Austrian bike was a huge step up for him then the tm . Which was cool but didn’t handle. 

Are you saying the Austrian didn’t handle well or the TM didn’t handle? Which one did he think was faster? Thanks.

mx317
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7/18/2026 9:09am
jazza167 wrote:

What promise has drew shown since going pro? Nothing deserving of a factory ride in my eyes anyway. More of a club/bar x level guy. 

Drew topped qualifying today, so it shows the potential is there. Good thing someone else out there can spot talent. 

1
jazza167
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7/18/2026 12:39pm
jazza167 wrote:

What promise has drew shown since going pro? Nothing deserving of a factory ride in my eyes anyway. More of a club/bar x level guy. 

mx317 wrote:

Drew topped qualifying today, so it shows the potential is there. Good thing someone else out there can spot talent. 

Hopefully he can back it up when it matters…

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