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Nah. Just that you guys paying $60 and then defending it/supporting a price increase is kinda dumb.
I remember Glen Helen started taking credit cards for entry fees years ago
Speaking of "kinda dumb"...
I’ve spent more than enough time and money on fuel and equipment to help maintain my friend’s personal track to understand that $40-$60 for a day of riding is nothing to complain about. I bring at least that in Diesel and then spend a few hours working before I even get to put my helmet on.
Getting yourself into a Motorsport and then bitching about the costs of it is kinda dumb.
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I own a private in AZ and am doing the whole thing differently.
I looked into making it public but the cost of ins. Made it impossible for the number of riders i wanted as i would have had to charge an insane fee to cover the cost plus all the other cost of keeping a track.
Knowing the legal system is just color of law not real law (law of the sea, commerce, UCC) and my track is not at sea i defaulted to real law (law of the land)
I found the law covering my concern and applied it. It works for me and keeps me free from litigation if someone gets hurt.
Your state has similar laws covering you you just don't know it most think they have to play by the legal system but you certainly do not.
This just means spectators can now sue tracks, too.
Good thinking. 👍
Spectators have always been able to sue tracks. Injury claims for off-track incidents have become a focus of insurance companies and are probably more responsible for increased/unavailable insurance premiums than on-track incidents.
It’s not often that you and I disagree; so, here’s some explanations of why fees are goin’ up out here…
Liability Insurance
Glen Helen, Bud Feldkamp, has to insure against any and every PERSON on the property for the reasons of LIABILITY…injuries, and sometimes even death, all of which are damn near routine in our sport…in this lifestyle….
Insuring for that is not only expensive…
But, here California it’s increasing exponentially.
Every person that enters the facility, every employee on thru every spectator…every vendor…every rider or racer…every AMBULANCE DRIVER…is a liability that must be covered via insurance.
And that’s just one item.
Everthing…equipment rentals/purchase/maintenance/operation to the cost of water to…of course…fuel and energy…to fence maintenance…ALL OF IT…getting ridiculous as of late.
A recent nearby SoCal lawsuit whereby the race operators didn’t build the smartest track and a certain goggle-guy’s kid got hurt really, really bad…and he sued…well, that settlement has caused the insurance aspect of all of this to escalate…a lot.
Something I know for a self-suffered fact: ANYTHING to do with insuring a business involved in this sport has “gone full stupid” on the insurance end.
So, there’s an honest explanation from someone that sees this from within the business side of our sport and lifestyle.
While we’re here, hey…Mr. Feldkamp? Reach out to Davey and have an open and honest talk about how much you BOTH…
Love this sport.
Let everything-else fall to the ground and just move forward based on that.
Please.
Signed…with respect to all involved,
A dude that just wants to see motocross return to its home.
$20 here in the northeast
What's your realistic solution? I think everyone realizes you don't have one but still decide to complain about the reality of the situation. Also, have you been to any other type of motorsports track/track day and seen the costs associated?
This doesn't cover you for spectators.
I actually have one. Stop operating in the legal system.
I have track and I looked into what I would have to charge riders by the number of riders I would be interested in having each time.
I didn't want more than 15 or so at a time as i wanted a more laid back experience longer motos less track deterioration and more fun.
The cost would have made it impossible so knowing I could utilize my states law of the land instead of going with color of law ie the legal system UCC and all that mumbo jumbo.
So I just follow the AZ statute 33-1551 which protects me from any litigation for injuries sustained while on my property.
To get this protection I cannot charge a fee which creates a contract and therefore would place me directly in the legal system. This is how they get ya.
I charge no fees the riders that come donate as much and some even more that the fees they would pay at a public track. The result I get the funds and have no need to purchase ins as i'm covered as donations are fine. No law against folks just giving other folks cash.
Of course i'm not in business and don't care about making money on the track as I have money to live on. The donations all go back into the track so it's a win win for everyone.
I have families come out with dad and sometimes up to 3 or more family members riding. Going to a public track would be very expensive. Here they can ride for a fraction of that and we have cookouts they bring food and we have a great time.
I know how it was when I was racing in the 70s the family structure of the sport it was a wonderful time. I'm trying to capture that with my place and so far it's been a success for 10 years.
Anyway that's my two cents.
Not sure that works if you make any alterations to natural terrain. The statute provides "except on a showing that the owner, easement holder, lessee, tenant, manager or occupant was guilty of wilful, malicious or grossly negligent conduct that was a direct cause of the injury to the recreational user or educational user," so you're not out of the legal system. Not being critical, good on you for trying to make it work for you and others able to ride and hope it does play in your favor.
Nice, sounds like this could work as long as you never hold organized races/events?
I'm a practice track don't really have spectators.
Sometimes a wife or girlfriend and they usually just sit in the shade and read a book.
I usually don't have more that 6 to 8 folks riding so non riding folks are almost zero so i'm not too concerned about that. 10 years in and no issues.
Damn owens... you actually know what's up... props
Those statutes do not protect the land owner from injuries caused by gross negligence, and the only way to determine if the landowner was simply negligent or grossly negligent is through the courts.
Pit Row
Not interested in any of that. Not enough parking space for an event. Don't have a starting line and the track would have a tough time accommodating more than 20 riders gets narrow in some places that could cause some issues.
I'm just a practice track usually no more that 6 to 8 riders with the occasional 15 or so and on those days usually all 15 aren't on the track at the same time so it works.
I get mostly WORCS and other offroad racers very few mxers as they just can't hang the length and type of track i have they like the flat SX type.
I take off my hat and bow down to you Sir. Well put!
10 years in so far so good. There is also something to be said about the kind of people you allow to ride. I don't advertise nor have ride days. I have a core group of folks who have been coming for years they bring in others that they feel will fit into how we do things.
Gotta try.
Again, good on you, and it sounds like it can work for a close circle of trusted people. Might be hard to scale it to a commercial track serving more riders, which we need more of. Continued good luck with keeping it going claims free.
It could work for larger public tracks.
The Equine industry uses a form of this to protect themselves from litigation. Certainly it could be adapted to other sports considered to be dangerous. There has to be a better way to do it than what we are doing now.
Exactly. That statute doesn’t magically block lawsuits or liability. You’re only likely immune if a judge rules "as a matter of law" that the statute actually applies to you. All it takes is one accident . . .
Yeah so I already mentioned the club model as opposed to a venue setup. This may or may not do a ton I’m not a business attorney.
Better waivers or even mandatory safety courses for first time riders. I don’t understand how people waive all rights and then somehow still have the rights to sue. Why do we have waivers?
Finally as it’s already been mentioned, approaching the situation differently. Insurance companies don’t care if tracks stay open so they’re going to maximize profits against track owners as long as they can. Clearly a different solution besides “moar better insurance” is direly needed. I won’t speak to what that looks like because I don’t have the knowledge.
What I do know is motocross used to be a decently affordable sport for a family after the up front cost of bikes. The trajectory that we’re on now is anything but that. Everyone seems to be okay with insurance essentially removing the common man from the sport, which is exactly the class of people that uphold and industry.
There are only so many TRT infused boomers with toy haulers and baseball-dad personalities and they’re not going to keep things going on their own.
My track started charging a spectator fee but I make my old lady pay it. This show ain’t free, baby. Pay up.
I suggest you not take up snow skiing.
If you want to get sticker shock, look up a day pass at Aspen.
"I don’t understand how people waive all rights and then somehow still have the rights to sue. Why do we have waivers?" The waiver doesn't stop the lawsuit or being sued, but it makes it that much harder for the plaintiff to win. It really narrows what claims they can file suit for but not all claims.
Yeah well riddle me why archview regional prices are higher than Pala regional prices? Across the board
ass, cash, or grass
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