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Have you not noticed the lack of universal participation
Everyone says 450 Supercross, and I do agree that it is the highest profile championship, but as an Old Head, I am more impressed with the guy that can prevail going 35x2 in the hot summer sun for eleven weeks.
And SMX is just an obvious gimmick designed to prevent riders from focusing on WSX.
If someone from anywhere in the world other than the US were to walk into a riders trophy room and take a look around what would they think? On one end of the shelf is a trophy for either US championship and on the other is a trophy that says world champion. For me it's a no brainer, our championships, while hard to win, represent winning in one country with one language and one culture. MXGP requires you to adapt to situations around the world, develop works bikes, and represent both the bike manufacturer and your country.
You’ve only got to see how giggy Americans become when ex world champions come to play in US to understand MXGP is the most prestigious series to win.
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It’s not just the title that prestigious. It’s also the competition. Imo the Mxgp series is not nearly as deep and they don’t have full gates. It’s B league.
And how do Euros act when Americans come over? Wouldn't know because it doesn't happen.
The title says "most prestigious"...not "most lucrative". The GP's were...and to my mind...still are the most prestigious. We know that the Euros don't come here because they don't have the Supercross experience to make decent coin.
That doesn't detract from the globe trotting GP's. I talked to Roger about this years...and years ago. He chased and found that GP prestige but said they all knew where the money was gonna be. He's Belgian ya know...the only thing they like more than money...is more money. Full respect to Roger...we owe you...a lot.
How do you know that? I feel like they’d be equally as hard to win since it’s mostly the same competitors.
I think we can all relate to riding motocross because we’ve all done it and we all know how grueling it can be. But not many of us have ever ridden a true supercross track. It may not be as grueling, but the skill set to ride a supercross track is totally different. A lot of us could ride any MX track and make it around fine, probably do the majority of the jumps, and not look like a total squid. Put most of us on a SX track and we’re rolling almost all the jumps 😂
Completely right about a different skill set required for SX.
But, while most of us know moto...Pro level speed is something most can barely grasp. I've tried my hand at it, albeit many many years ago, and I can't believe top box speed. I highly recommend that everyone attend an outdoor race this summer. A visual reminder of how fast these guys really are. (The top of the 1st turn at Thunder Valley is kinda epic).
Falcon isn't saying SX skills aren't real and hugely relevant to success in American racing.
I believe he's saying what I said. The big paycheck doesn't necessarily equate to prestige.
Some of us remember when SX was invented and while no one denies it requires skill and talent...Outdoors is king. Just my .02.
I know he wasn’t. He said it’s harder to win outdoors than it is to win indoors. I don’t see that being the case since the competition is basically the same. I think they’re both equally as hard to win at because they have essentially the same competition. MX may be more physically demanding, but that doesn’t mean it’s any easier to win a SX race.
In thirty years time, to your grandchildren:
“I was world motocross champion”.
Grandkids: “Wow, grandad, that’s so cool”
“I was Supercross champion”.
Grandkids: “What’s that?”
We all have our own version of what prestigious means.
As someone who will never fully understand, but has a decent guess at what it takes, the US nationals are the answer for me.
Moto > SX.
So between the two MX series, a few things that tip the scale are…
The US guys hold their own against the GP guys, while riding SX for 75% of the year.
They ride less than optimal setups, especially early on, in hot weather.
Full gates (can’t emphasize this enough).
Credit to the GP guys for the variety in track surfaces, travel, and racing for no purse money.
I’d love to see a true World Championship (won’t think about holding my breath until I see national 250 SX).
By 'US' guys do you mean all the foreign riders based in the USA?
Prestigious?
AMA SX 450 class
MXGP 450 class
US Nationals 450 class
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SMX playoff gimmick
I'm definitely not gonna disagree with you cause it's all opinion but my thoughts on a few of your things that tip the scale..
'They ride less than optimal setups' sure but I guess they all are so wouldn't it cancel out? (unless you mean just the riding not the competition)
I still don't totally get the problem with less than full gates cause are the back 20 AMA riders that competitive against the top guys? I mean don't get me wrong I love that they're out there and it looks great on the gate but after 10-15 mins they're mostly lappers aren't they.. Also I don't know if I can prove this but I'd suggest there's more than 11 rounds of the GPs with full gates..
But otherwise I'm glad SX is third on your list, cause same haha
Pit Row
No. I mean riders in the US.
Yes, it does cancel out between them. I mean they go Mach 1 on stiff stuff with very little prep time. That’s gnarly in itself as a competitor, but then as a whole, they are able to be at or exceed the GP level.
What would it look like if the US riders went 18 rounds and never touched a SX track or earned a dime from riding a SX bike?
I’d love to see that version of the Lawrences and their Honda hitting the summer tour.
So to me, winning the great outdoors is more prestigious than the GPs cuz you gotta be at GP level speed and fitness and do it despite Supercross.
This has me adding “staying healthy” to the list of reasons why it’s hard to win one. Not only getting through the meat grinder and making it to round 1 in good form, but then keeping it together on the less than optimal setup. And again, the heat.
Feels like the champ is exposed more, especially in training, where overtraining or small mistakes and injuries can derail things quick.
The full gates matter because a champion has to deal with the chaos that comes with lappers.
Roost, line choice, mistakes, lapper battles, bad starts, etc. all make life difficult for a champ.
Less riders, or less depth (which I did not communicate clearly when I said full gates) means clean laps mid race, an easier path through them, and less stress overall.
It’s different when being a privateer is glorified like it is and there is prize money to be made.
Even if they have same number of rounds with full gates, the top 40 doesn’t look the same between the two series.
To me, that extra chaos carries some weight.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I don’t see how AMA nationals can be more prestigious when it stays in the same very large country, no bottomless sand, no steep hard pack, one day short schedule, less weather & classes filled with privateers.
Also am MXGP rider can win in AMA easier then a AMA can win in Europe.
What’s the ratio of MXGP riders coming to America vs the other way around ? Theirs your answer.
MXGP has a very deep history in motocross that some of the all-time greats like Joël Robert, Roger DeCoster, Stefan Everts and Antonio Cairoli raced. I love the history behind the series, which was built on the scrambles that came out of the UK. I also like that it was strictly motocross on natural terrain (though the tracks have changed and evolved into more man made obstacles). I think that those traditions in the sport give the MXGP series prestige.
That is defined from a strictly historical perspective. If you are talking money, women, and exposure, nothing beats the 450sx class. It's a difficult title to win (took Kenny 10+ years) and I think it is the future of the sport. Even the young guns in Europe want to come to America to race supercross. Unfortunately, our outdoor series tends to get less emphasis put on it. It seems that even some of the riders lack interest in it. Webb won't be doing them in 27, Kenny isn't doing them now, and some riders just don't seem to put as much effort into the outdoor nationals.
If I could pick one, it'd probably be MXGP, and I really wish more Americans would give it a go in their prime, but money wise and for their career, it makes no sense so it's likely not going to happen very often.
I think that’s more to do with sx money.
There’s no doubt sx pays well, same country, same language, same foods, predictable track layouts.
For a top level us rider to try bring home the bacon in a true world championship it would need ambition beyond money.
Sadly I don’t think US riders are made that way anymore.
Maybe Deegan would once he wins enough in US as it would be something no one has achieved before in modern era.
SMX Championship
From back when I was a teen, I have always wanted to see the FIM and the AMA put together two OUTDOOR races each year, one on the MXGP circuit, and one on the US National circuit, where riders from both series competed, and earn points in their own series, based on their results against ALL of the best riders in the world.
Sounds simple to me, but I don't see it happening.
BTW, it goes without saying that at Southwick, the Bullet laps either Eli or Hannah with all in their prime.
MXON.
USA been spoilt and lost the passion.
Mxon lost its luster when the US guys stopped sending our best and just the next best that were willing to participate.
SX is the most prestigious without a doubt.
How does having 25-30 lappers instead of 5-15 lappers make it “deeper?”
I've always enjoyed Motocross more than Supercross in terms of watching races.
That being said, the difficulty of Supercross, I have to say that's the most "prestigious" champion out there right now.
So you’re saying that mxgp is as deep a field as USMX?
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