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Not everyone needs a bunch of zone 2 or rigid structure...
Sure, if it's your job to be an athlete, that's the way to make the most of your career, but I do this shit for fun!
Consistent and dedicated, but semi-random is working well for me.
I get out as often as I can, eat healthy, recover as needed, and never make excuses.
For a guy in my mid 40's, my fitness is excellent and I'm crushing the fun category.
https://www.strava.com/athletes/108775266
That's how elite trained until the 80s. Since 30y back zone 2 is the uncontested base and incorporated into every persons training that has an ambition stretching further than weekend warriors do.
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That's awesome man and it looks like you have found a system that works for you. Being able to hit that high of intensity so frequently is impressive, props to you.
From my perspective, for an average athlete/racer, to jump into that high of intensity right away would probably lead to their central nervous system to be fried (severe fatigue). Which wouldn't be beneficial if they want to get better.
Zone 2 is meant to be a light workout, no one is arguing against that. And zone 2 alone won't make you faster. Zone 2 (easy effort) workouts, from my experience, is what builds your base so you have the ability to actively recover from the high intense work.
That is the very interesting part about fitness is that everyone is different and can find success in a wide variety of methods. I hope you kill it at the World Championships and Vet Nationals!
Here is a study on Zone 2 cardio as well: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11986187/#sec6
That is ultimately what it is all about, having fun and enjoying the process. Rigid structure is hard to follow especially if you are working a bunch of hours and being an athlete isn't your job.
Being consistently good will be the occasional great any day. I build both (rigid or flexible schedules) depending on what the athlete's goals and outside responsibilities are. When I started working with a personal trainer, it is what helped me win my first national championship.
Recovery is also what leads to results. Keep crushing it man and it sounds like you have a good thing going that fits in your life!
I dont know a whole lot about fitness, just a fat almost 40 year old at this point. But i will say this.... On Jan 1 i decided it was time for a change. Ive been doing HEAVY zone 2 cardio, currently down 76 pounds from 312 to 236. I rode my dirt bike last week on a motocross track for the first time in at least 10 years and i can say I dont think i have ever felt this good. My stamina is through the roof. We trained on some drills for almost 2 hours with some sprint laps mixed in, then finished with a 15 minute moto and I couldve done 25 EASY. Take it for what its worth but im going to keep doing what im doing.
Recovery training. Nothing more. Learn to use one of these and a clock.
Or for free, make a PACER test for yourself. Get a friend to join and see how far you can make it.
I think a lot of this depends on genetics... I trained like @Radical most of my life and it does work.
The misconception on both sides of that argument is that it does not work well vs that it is the best way.
Radical probably lucked out in the DNA lottery like I did. If I put in a small number of higher efforts per week, I can crush almost anyone in whatever discipline that is... Running, cycling, etc. and my stamina is almost unlimited if I'm in that fitness level.
Doing Zone 2 takes a ton of time and does not net the power (sprint speed) unless I do the above higher efforts along with it.
I see less practical benefit from my zone 2 stuff because my endurance is already so high that it is difficult to reach fatigue.
That makes me the outlier and Radical is probably in that category, too.
Who the hell can ride for 15 minutes??? 🤣
Recovery...
I've heard this my whole life, but it didn't feel true when I was younger.
As I've reached my mid 40s, this has become a much more important factor and I take rest days and sleep seriously.
Yeah you’re just wrong. I’ll pay the entry fee for your next marathon or full if you want to come see how you fare. Let me know. It’ll need to be in the Midwest area so travel would be on you.
Zone 2 is literally where the magic is. You stand completely alone in your opinion, too. Every trainer of recent champions would disagree with you, moto or endurance work. Do you think these guys are doing two hour road bike rides at 180 bpm or something? Just be more humble man it’s okay to not know everything.
As has been mentioned - your training works in your bubble. If we started doing 2h long runs after 40 miles of volume that week already you would not be as ready and fit as you think. That’s not a dig. I’m in that spot now.
Most guys make this mistake:
“My training is working in my life and my lane and therefore my training works”
That’s not a true statement. It works for you and your efforts but it will not carry over outside of efforts with differing structures. It also won’t take you outside of your current abilities. Ripping motos and feeling good on the MTB is one thing but there’s a darn good reason every excellent athlete that’s still improving is hammering zone 2 work PLUS all the other work as well. I’ve got 800’s, 150’s, hills, and 2.5 hour sessions in my current block. It’s all necessary.
Back when I was seriously training on Monday, Wednesday and Friday I ran 3.5 miles through a hilly neighborhood and the last 1/2 mile I did wind sprints. On Tuesday and Thursday I ran 7 miles.
This was done in Maryland in the heat of the day in high humidity and I still wore sweats. I loved racing in the heat because at the end of the race when others were fading I was still going 100%
I rode on Mondays to get those muscles moving. My senior year the teachers always wondered why I never went to school on Mondays.
You are so far off basis with this. Constant zone 4 training is just a lack of understanding on how the body builds a lactate threshold and utilizes that threshold during performance. Its scientifically proven that high volume, low itentsity zone training is more effective at building a cardiovascular engine or high Vo2 than what you are talking about. Your automatic nervous system can't adapt and recover to constant zone 4 strain. Its incredibly ineffective to be pushing threshold all the time and will just result in chronic fatigue.
Kristian Blummenfelt (Triathlete) has the highest Vo2 max recorded in history and spends most of his time in zone 2.
https://www.triathlete.com/training/how-to-train-like-a-norwegian-without-the-blood/#1
Edit to add: Not saying you will build a vo2 like this with NO high intensity work. You need both, but most people who train hard should spend most time in low intensity state.
and all the pro riders that do hours of zone 2 on road bikes? theyre just doing it wrong?
I had such a thick skull and ego with my training until late last year. I used to YOLO every session "cause I got that dawg in me" and once I started forcing myself to follow some better training principles every metric that matters improved radically and immediately. If I could put it in a sentence: Zone 2 training is what enables, empowers, and improves all of the other areas of exertion.
That is what I perceive and understand the data to point towards and exactly what I have experienced in my own work.
Pit Row
Agree that genetics have an impact. If you have a lot of slow twitch fibres training can be altered.
But, we shall not forget we get a up to 4x recommend dose of high intensity training per week. So adding more doesn't leave a lot of options.
Moto is high intensity work. People riding once a week are doing high intensity that day
80/20 split is what most trainers recommend. Running zone 2 4 times a week and riding once is 80/20.
The mentality aspect of the sport is one I don't hear talked about very much. Thank you for sharing this!
This chain is doing so much more than I had expected. I love the conversation going on here. I didn't realize how many people trained by heart rate in the moto industry, even if it is a crossover from running.
Thank you all for contributing to this and adding in your own experiences.
After I have run 3 marathons, I have found the most benefit from Zone 2 work and then incorporating 1-2 speed workouts depending on the week. It has helped me get to a level I never thought possible
Well, that's not wrong.
What I meant to emphasize with that post is the practical benefit...
The 80/20 zone 2 thing is well established and I do not debate that it's the best for most guys.
At my current age, within my current bubble, it is not a good use of my time.
Enjoying my time off is a significant part of the deal and my fitness gets to ride shotgun.
In my current perspective, zone 2 carries most of the work, speed work builds economy, marathon pace conditions.
Most people think VO2 max is king, and it matters, but not as much as economy. Moto, cycling, running, or anything - if done inefficiently it won’t be done for long😂
Most other sports doesn't put your HR at 95-98% of max during 20-25min.
Even if 80/20 is used mostly in other sports when volume is high (15-20h per week), our intensity makes up for the lower hours non professionalls put it, in moto.
I did a lot of Z4 and Z5 training 10y ago to build up during winter, 4 times per week mixed with long Z3 sessions on rower (45min to 80min). I fried myself. Not making that mistake again.
Everyone knows Zone 2 was the key to J-Law's championship
You're certainly doubling down on something, that's for sure.
Post a reply to: Why you are fading at the 15-minute mark (and the problem with your off-bike training)