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From the explanation, and what I've read from some twitter posts, this is what it seems:
Yellow lights are a warning, that their might be a flag ahead, use caution.
A red light, means NO JUMPING, there is a situation ahead. (This is black and white in the rule book).
The problem... The AMA, after the incidents last SMX, changed the yellow lights to red. So now... There's 2 different red lights. Riders are suppose to know where each one is located, and in a split second, in the heat of battle, decipher which red light is flashing (warning or real) and if there allowed to jump or not.
Brilliant. They changed a part of their system, and forgot to tweak the rules. Now they got caught, and are denying responsibility.
Never change AMA.
So Jo didn’t have to roll because there was no flag but the 450 boys didn’t have to roll because there was no warning light?
Yup.
Somebody put Feld/AMA (who knows anymore) Mikey on this one lol
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This has to be the worst AMA ruling in the history of AMA rulings!! So now the riders have to make a judgment if the lights mean anything or the flags mean anything or they don’t? How fucking ignorant can you really be?!! They jumped on Red Cross and they jumped on red lights! Automatic five point penalty for everybody involved!! it’s not brain surgery folks! Enforce the rules the way they’re written not the way you want to interpret them in each individual case!! it’s absolute bullshit!!!
Rider discretion doesn’t sound like a winning plan.
Well, Filthy is in…
Listening to the vital review now. Hearing ML and Lewis discuss it out loud and bring up WHY we got to this point, they lay it out pretty perfectly and all criticisms. I remember now riders complaining about yellow lights looking different colors through tear offs/lenses/rain, but nobody seems to remember this becoming official policy. I get why they ruled the way they did in the 250 class, but it highlights why it absolutely has to change now, and why the new policy/rule/whatever won't work.
Not sure why the finish line flag required a "lead in light" warning though, I feel like there was plenty of time to see a flag on the finish with the double before it out of the corner.
That’s what I get for assuming thanks for the correction.
Your fatal flaw is the fact you're assuming they had this figured out prior to the events in the race.
This entire thing is pure damage control and reverse engineering to justify them not issuing any penalties at all.
Think about this for a second...you now have current and former RACERS pissed off that no penalties were issued. How wild is that? If this wasn't a tremendous and obvious failure, the racers would be arguing the opposite side.
Chase should worry about getting being within 30 seconds of the leader instead of this. Obviously those three being docked points helps him
I think (which in itself is a problem!) that you CAN have red cross flags anywhere BUT the lead-in lights will ALSO be placed/considered in areas where rider vision would not allow them to see an issue in time to check up without BOTH signals being present. I get the logic, but the consistent implementation and rider compliance components are just screwed. Way too much processing needed during a high-speed, high-stress situation for the riders. Really analogous to training for combat. There ARE defined rules and tactics you train with but in the real world. shit happens so fast and in the chaos it's easy to get it wrong, and people die. See Pat Tillman as an example.
The rule clearly states one or the other and not both
All the lights were working exactly as designed. It was the operators who seem to be somewhat incompetent.
I honestly think they did. They just did an absolute shit job of letting everybody else know. If they did make it up on the fly as damage control, they did an absolute masterclass job of tying in prior events. I remember everything happening ML and Lewis were talking about and all the discourse at the time.
Wether they told the riders about this or not, I don't know. (My bet is they announced it monotone in a riders meeting, not really driving the point home to anybody or capturing anyone's attention) But to leave it out of the rulebook and just issue a verbal statement at a riders meeting isn't enough, and now seeing it in action, it was doomed from the start and I can't see it ever working.
I dont think hrc is arguing the decision for the fact of an unsafe situation could have occurred, they could careless, they are on the side of the fence where they want some points taken away from the guys they are battling.
If the riders and/or teams knew about this lead in light nonsense, Pierces statement wouldn't have been "I didn't see any lights" it would have been, yeah I saw the lead in lights but there was no flag on the finish line so I jumped. Him saying he didn't see the lights, whether he actually did or not, is him making a very public statement of ignorance to the lights (which is the smart thing to do in his case)
Bottom line, to me, is if the AMA can't cite a specific WRITTEN rule, then IDGAF what they say on a podcast or post-race show. If they can't cite a written rule, you issue penalties in the spirit of the rule that IS written, and that means penalties. Period.
What I still don't understand is why. What aren't we hearing? Pierce keeps win, Jo gets the points and its Race 1 of the series so everyone gets treated fair and square with plenty more racing to decide the championship. That’s a fair outcome.
Pit Row
The AMA should have never got rid of the yellow lights. Red means penalty, yellow means caution.
But their ruling said the opposite
Jo put it best, not to be dramatic, but if there is an instance in the future where a red flag shouldn’t have been ignored, but a rider does and hits another rider, the blood is on the AMA’s hands
According to the rulebook, the riders and team managers are required to attend a pre race meeting. Additionally, any notification of any changes or race direction given is given to the riders and the team managers. If the "lead in light" BS is legit, why did Lars state that the points should be changed?
Cade said he goes to the riders meeting religiously and said he didn’t hear them talking about lead in lights
I'm not in favor of the AMA's ruling, just saying listening to ML and Lewis explain how they came to their conclusion makes the most sense out of anything I've seen or read so far. I just still don't agree with it, but I at least understand where they came from. Bottom line is something has to change from here on out.
Listening to both review pods from Vital and Matthes, I feel like Vital explained what happened best and JT explained what needs to happen now best. It has to be extremely plain/black and white on what to do with flags and lights. Any light should mean do not jump, there just isn't enough time or available brain capacity during a race to ask any more from racers. Light on, no jump. No light, go ahead.
Of course it makes sense, they are explaining it AFTER THE FACT and saying whatever they need to say to justify their pathetic non-action. They've had two days to come up with this total nonsense.
Has ANY rider come out saying they knew anything about these lead in lights? Again, it's not like the riders commenting are blindly backing their fellow racers, they are literally pissed penalties weren't issued. Which in itself is pretty wild.
This should render in people getting fired. And i really, really don’t think im being dramatic. That is the sensible and acceptable outcome of this.
RJ tweeted that he has only heard about one pair of lights. And there is nothing about the ”lead-in” lights in the rule book.
So yeaaah…. This is a huge scandal and i really hope HRC are going after AMA with full force. Heads should roll.
AMA logos on graphics covered with tape next round
Every set of reds has 3 lights.
Has for years and the 3rd light is not optional.
The 3rd light is not new.
I’ve flagged for the ama and was given a red light remote with no instructions before being sent out on track.
It's new in how they do it this year and SMX last year. Have you flagged this year?
You don't flagg for AMA, Feld is responsible for the arrangements if it works like everywhere else also for SX. This is also typical issue, non sufficient training or instructions. Blows my mind the National championship handles it this way. When I'm race director, it's mandatory instruction session in the morning for flaggers.
Post a reply to: No Flag or Red Cross Violations at Texas: Kellen Brauer