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I think that is the main point here.
3 seconds is WAY different that 15 seconds.
3 seconds is unavoidable (thinking a tight pack of riders, flagging cant help that)
15 seconds does (to me) seem avoidable.
Man you're all over the place. Nobody saw him crash, but they saw him trying to get up, but not in enough time to avoid hitting him, and the riders "right behind" were the only ones who know what happened, but somehow vague "safety improvements" would have prevented it.
Let's cut the crap and put an actual amount of time on it. How far ahead of the riders that hit him was he on that lap?
What specific safety improvements would have made a difference in that amount of time?
Was someone holding a gun to the family's heads when they signed the team green deal? Or entered the race? Or took the track?
They were four laps into the race. He had a comfortable lead.
So now just imagine for a second that all of the defending parties involved conspired to alter the narrative of the consequences of this in order to save their ass and protect their image. Do you really think at the end of the day that the owners of 2X promotions cares more about the lives of the racers than their own livelihood? And I can assure you that in the grand scheme of things, the Vista outdoors stock price weighs far more heavily than the death of one of their sponsored riders. Vista Outdoors will not allow itself to die or to be a sacrificial lamb.
Misrepresenting what happened, coaching sponsored riders not to say anything or to alter their interpretation of the incident to the media.
There are all sorts of machinations that could’ve happened behind the scenes that ultimately led the Zingg’s to quickly realize that this industry really is run by a lot of very unscrupulous and devious souls who could give a shit about your children.
If that’s really acceptable to you all then my previous, very, very harsh comments do very much sincerely and whole-heartedly still apply.
"How the fuck would anyone know that but the goddamn fucking kids that hit him?
THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"So the racers that hit Aidan claimed that he was still conscious and moving and trying to get off the track and they hit him.
And the promoter claims a flagger saw Aidan never regain consciousness.
And now you understand why there’s a lawsuit.
If all of this ultimately proves to be true, not only can the promoter get fucked, but this whole sport can get fucked and all of you who are defending risk as a consequence of this sport can get fucked too."
If you can't see that the time that elapsed from his initial wreck to when he was hit by another rider (if he was and if that was the incident that caused his death) is the most important fact (and you don't know how much time elapsed), then you are just as stupid as your posting history suggests.
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"quickly realize that this industry really is run by a lot of very unscrupulous and devious souls who could give a shit about your children"
Is this Cooksey? Are the Coombs behind this?!?!
Right, a bunch of people who race and/or have devoted large portions of their life to a sport are conspiring to keep a stock price up instead of speaking freely and helping to improve their sport. Makes total sense.
Or..... everyone knows that anything they say might get twisted and used by some ambulance chaser who not only doesn't care if their sport gets safer but doesn't care if it ceases to exist in the future.
". . . just imagine for a second . . ."
Instead, can I suggest that you stop imagining?
“The lawsuit claims that because the corner where Aidan fell was unmanned by a flagger, no yellow caution flags were waved to warn oncoming riders within the critical "couple seconds" after his initial fall.”
No one at Vista Outdoors (now Revelyst) has devoted their life to maintaining the sport of motocross. They’ve only devoted their sad corporate lives to maintaining the stock price of Vista Outdoors and their corporate image.
I think that besides the point anyway. They just developed a shitty product that does absolutely nothing to protect you from this type of death, apparently.
There was a flagger 18 feet away from where he wrecked. Are you claiming that a yellow flag waving two seconds after his wreck would have saved his life? A flag waving three seconds after his wreck is too late and irresponsible?
You drunk, macduff?
The statements from the racers that hit Aidan contradicts those of the promoter. There was no flagger present as far as they were concerned.
Maybe after the crash a flagger ran to within 18 feet of his proximity, but it doesn’t sound like there was someone present to warn the oncoming racers and avoid a collision.
Unfortunately Aidan’s presence at Mammoth MX 2025 has been completely scrubbed from the results. Perhaps that was the request of his parents, or perhaps at the request of someone else.
Impossible to tell how much of a gap there was based on this dataset. I had heard that he had a comfortable lead. They were four laps in.
https://resultsmx.com/2x/laps.aspx?e=240&c=279&t=5&n=1
So would the riders that hit him be liable too?
You seem completely unhinged....seriously. Just sayin'......
You ask perhaps one of the most important and fundamental questions in this entire conversation.
Motocross racers legally accept the risk of crashes caused by other competitors, even fatal ones, as long as those actions fall within normal racing conduct.
Track operators and organizers are different because they control the environment and safety systems, which creates a legal duty to prevent foreseeable, non-inherent hazards.
Short version: riders assume risk, organizers assume responsibility.
You’ve gotta be trolling, if not you’re pretty fried. Even when Alessi git crunched at Red Bud riders turned around to check on him
Has the rider, or riders, that hit him come forward and make any statements at all?
Pit Row
Not calling anyone a liar or questioning anyone's motives, but can we stop and think about this for a second.......? What are the riders supposed to say? You really think they're going to say "yeah I saw the flagger before I hit and killed him"
And either way, not seeing a flagger is not the same thing as one not being present.
There’s a sizeable amount of literature regarding the unreliability of eyewitness testimony, and the ways that trauma exacerbates the problem. It’s entirely possible to have a situation where people give contradictory statements about what they saw without anyone lying. Obviously, someone is wrong but you can be wrong while being certain that you’re remembering an event accurately. I’m not willing to ascribe malice - though I readily accept that it’s possible - when other explanations are possible and not implausible. I don’t know what happened and it would be irresponsible to pretend otherwise.
You invite us to imagine a scenario with a conspiracy where kids are being manipulated into lying. You then go from imagining it to scolding people for not being outraged by it. This is really quite astounding. I’d be outraged if that happened and I bet pretty much everyone else would be as well. It’s not that we don’t get outraged when kids are manipulated into lying about another kid’s death, it’s that we don’t know whether that happened. I don’t know the people who run Mammoth but I’m not going to jump to the conclusion that they are greedy, soulless scoundrels who only care about money and a child’s life means nothing to them.
I’m also not going to jump to the conclusion that the people at Fox purposely produce shitty products that don’t offer any protection. It’s hard to believe that there are that many awful people involved in the industry.
I’m just throwing out hypothetical possibilities.
I wholeheartedly do not believe the Zingg family is doing this for the sake of money.
They did not receive the truth about the death of their son. Fear nothing more than a scorned parent.
What’s the lol for? You are the one trying to blame Fox for the piece of plastic protection he wore yet the same sponsor has other more protective options that his parents decided not to require him to wear. Isnt this negligence on their part?
Macduff made a statement earlier that Fox forced him to wear a lesser roost guard. Dude is just making shit up.
No, I think they are doing it because they refuse to accept any responsibility for what happened by letting their kid race so they want to blame everyone else except themselves.
Were you there? NO so STFU. you ask 20 people what they saw and you will get 20 different answers.
If someone hit him and saw him lying there the next lap...and kept going for a plastic trophy we are in a bad spot.
I’m all for everyone having an opinion and sharing it, but if it takes you 2-3 pages on here arguing trying to defend your position, your opinion just might suck.
Well, according to 2X Promotions, Aidan high-sided and crashed and was immediately unconscious and his flagger was there immediately performing CPR on him.
Let’s just disregard the fact that the racers claimed a completely and totally different set of circumstances.
This is not about accepting the consequences of risk. This is about honesty and integrity, something this sport greatly lacks.
Sorry to hear about your brother. I lost my little bro when he was 12. On a motorcycle on a neighbors farm - he hit a cattle gate just on a dirt road. The grief is real, but nobody in my family ever thought about suing anyone. The thought never crossed my mind, and I never heard a single word spoken about it. We created a foundation that provided safety equipment for kids sports through the local schools. We did a 20 mile bike ride event with auctions etc. to raise money. It helped so much with the grief part, knowing you are doing something about it. A lawsuit will punish both parties through the process and any money involved just ends up in the lawyers jeans. Raising money for a foundation and bringing in duffle bags of helmets, shin pads, elbow pads etc. for kids and getting them excited about the cool new gear is rewarding. Helped my family out massively.
That being said, I will not say anything bad about the Zinggs. There were some pretty poor comments I heard through the grapevine regarding my brothers passing, and I have never wanted to "confront" someone so badly in my life. That shit hurts. I'm sure mistakes were made. I am sure the Zinggs regret some things and choices they made. I'm sure the promoter/ track feel the same. People are human. Can you guys actually sit there and say you have made every choice (especially when fun is involved) right in the name of safety? No. You can't. You are commenting on a MX forum. I'm sure every one of you has jumped something you were scared of, or held the throttle on a little longer, or just pushed it cause it felt "good". I'm sure every one of you has rode their bike in the absence of anyone supervising, and have ridden tracks you later thought were sketchy. Drop the saint persona, your probably worse than the honest people who can admit it and learn from their or others past actions.
Flame on.
Can you share a source for what you are ascribing to 2X Promotions? Or is this more hypothesizing on your part? Show us what they've said about this incident.
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