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they know their base is dumb as fuck
https://x.com/TheMaineWonk/status/2002159073924673648
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you openly support and voted for a pedophile 3 times
https://www.justice.gov/multimedia/Court%20Records/Doe%20v.%20Epstein,%20No.%20908-cv-80119%20(S.D.%20Fla.%202008)/118-03.pdf
I just want to throw up. The fact that this cover up has been going on for so long. Under so many administrations and people. There is no doubt, evil exists, and it holds the power of government. Then, and now.
People have attached so much of their identity to Trump that it just doesn't matter how obvious it is that he's a terrible person, they won't believe it no matter what. The result is that they're walking around with "pervert scumbag supporter" tattooed on their forehead and they wonder why people are hostile.
And Dems have their pile of shit to eat. You can't hug the crime out of people and you have a lot of rapes and murders to answer for everytime you set people free too quickly and they go right out and do what everyone already knew they were going to do. The result is that they're walking around with "pervert scumbag supporter" tattooed on their forehead and they wonder why people are hostile.
We're not exactly showing the world our best selves right now...
What’s that say about a nation, when people can no longer support a party based on moral grounds? I’ve said it before, there’s two justice systems in America. One for politicians/wealthy and the one for regular Joe’s. Without fixing that, you cannot begin discussing morals.
This is the kind of shit that should take down a gov’t.
This isn’t a party thing, at least not in the traditional sense. It’s about the idolatry towards one man, that’s so sacrosanct that these things can’t shake their worship of him.
Are all the people who voted for Trump in any of the past 3 elections cultists? No.
Are the vast majority of the people who still support (and idolize, despite their denials) him after this long of seeing his true self? Obviously.
👍.. one must consider any justice system that is set up by and for the state, is there only to justify its own authority. When representatives of the state (politicians & wealthy elite) get called to court, justice towards them will never be served by the state because it undermines its own existence and interests. The two priorities of the state is profit and self preservation.
A justice system applied by any state has never been for the peoples benefit. It’s a hierarchical organization designed to assert its illegitimate authority. And Because it is born from hierarchy, a justice system applied by the state is the antithesis of justice. It should be called the injustice system.
And yes it must be rebalanced and it must come from us, the people, the individual, and the deep contemplation of our collective values and therfore the morals which will be born of them.
The best authority is authority served to the individual by the individual himself, for karma always comes. Beyond that, things become more complicated. Justice served by a legitimate authority is next best, and by that I mean an authority based on merit, so non-hierarchical. But that’s where money comes into play. Without money or more specifically without profit, authority would by default be based on merit. Today, our authority (illegitimate imo) is based on might and money.
…. The point of my rambling: no justice will ever be served in this debacle unless it is served by us and the only way we do this is by revolution. By dismantling the institutions which have given the authority and legitimacy to these globalist elite and the economic model designed by them, for them, which hath gave them their power (money) and their god (money) which we, both stupidly and naively, adopted as our own.
Agree it's not a party thing, it just displays itself in different ways depending on what folks are into. We have a culture problem which I think boils down to selfishness. Gross ideological inconsistency is the symptom we see, people want whatever makes them happy in any given moment no matter how much it conflicts with everything else and no matter how much it ruins their character.
It’s time to overthrow the government. They are unnecessary parasites of OUR democracy. Fuck them. We have zero obligation to pay taxes.
Careful using The D word has become controversial around here.
Other than victims, or people that are currently or could be facing prosecution NO NAMES should be redacted. Ad an asterisk and say " only rode on the plane , not the underage train" or some simple 2 sentence explanation of why they are not a perv. no redactions.
I don't care who's on there , they should have to deal with it. They may not have all have done something with minors , so I can understand not wanting to be associated with that side. But anybody that was around him for more than 10 minutes seemed to know what his deal was.
Seems like this release will be more nothing. Showing mostly people Trump dislikes and perhaps we can assume that he and his buddies are in the giant stretch's of black. That's what a lot of people would assume , I don't see how his hardcore supporters don't see that he's in the files and hiding why and what he did to get in. It may not be a big deal, but by hiding it it will only grow the look of guilt. Just like he did with the Russia investigations. He made himself look suspicious enough to get looked into. And honestly wouldn't You rather have a president investigated to make sure they were not an asset of a hostile foreign country? No matter who the candidate I could support an honest investigation if similar signs were present. Really at this point, none of his supporters would care whatever he's in there for, and the hardcore people against trump will assume he's in the redactions. Then You get the people more in the middle who may have voted R or D in the past and are not loyal to a single party. Those people may also assume he's in there .
In my opinion ,unless there is some really wild stuff in there linked to Trump, he would be much better off not redacting his own name and images.
Here is where we diverge significantly. This is all super libertarian, which is nice in a way because it's a projection of decency, you don't need X structure because you manage yourself in positive ways on your own and that's great, good on you. However, I think it's incredibly disconnected with reality, expressing a, "I'm a good guy and everyone must be like me" naivety, because it relies entirely on an us/good vs them/bad model that's a complete falsehood. It does not exist.
We are them and they are us, the only difference is at which points in time, and after how much exposure to different roles. Libertarianism basically requires everyone to be a policeman and there's nothing stopping people from at least verbally policing each other right now, yet it's pretty rare, because we all know people are crazy and most of the time it's not worth it. What libertarianism does, it create a need for 100x more of what people already don't want to participate in.
What needs to change, regardless of the system (the system itself does not matter, all systems fail with sucky people and all systems work with decent people), is people's willingness to participate in any of it. When you consider the constitution and what all tools are available and the realistic ability of changing anything especially in hyperpartisan times, I can only see one practical path, which is to bring back age-appropriate civics for every grade to burn into people's minds how this country works, and maybe you start seeing the benefits in a couple decades. The only thing "imperfect" about the constitution is that there's no maintenance system in place for itself. We the people literally maintain our dusty flat tire garage bicycles significantly better than we maintain our own nation. At least they get cleaned and aired up once in a while. I won't even mention dirt bikes, they get maintained a million times better.
There is no us vs. them. It’s us vs. it. Maybe I should use it more, rather than them. They only exist because of it. And they are just as bad off as us. They suffer just as much, just in different ways. They are oppressed under the weight of their duty to oppress and hold onto their power. It serves neither them to constantly police and be the man behind the curtain because they are not free, they’re stuck in that role forever, policing and taking care of an idiot humanity. An idiot humanity because they/it do not allow us to fully develop the abilities to take care of ourselves because we’ve been so reliant on it/them to manipulate us around like puppets for so long we’re like little children. Morons in the dark and nearly useless, but that is not our default mode.
You could simply remove them but more individuals like them will just move into those positions of power. We must remove the incentive to act badly towards one another and the environment/planet in general. We need to remove hierarchical structures and profit. All you suggest are common sense pragmatic solutions. I think we need to remove the central banks and fiat currency along with your suggestions. Thing is, is doing that undermines it. So it’s a conundrum when your set on reformism. Fundamentally it can’t be reformed.
I also believe that most people are mostly good. It’s just that we live in a world where bad behavior is rewarded. I do not believe in original sin.
Pit Row
Yeah I don't particularly like getting into the possible solutions that will never be realized. And I understand that our society is trending towards wealth being the benchmark of every form of a person's value in the world, but I think the major issue is our perception which makes it happen, not the money itself and what that affords (hierarchy).
Our core differences appear to be about where responsibility lies, which shapes where the fixes happen. If you were watching people sitting a circle with a pile of rocks in the middle and they picked up those rocks and started smashing each other, your mindset seems like it would be to focus on the rocks, whereas mine would focus on the people. And I focus on the people for two reasons, 1) you will never come remotely close to getting rid of rocks and everything rock-like, and 2) focusing on the rocks absolves the offenders of the responsibility of their violence. If you want a 10% functional bandaid, focus on the rocks. If you want a 95% solution, focus on the people.
But I want to probe with a couple questions; did "it" never work? Was there never a time when "it" worked significantly better? I do think there is a problem for all of us in banking, which is that lending is literally a printing of money (inflation) and when money supply increases dramatically, us little guys that don't participate in this lending and this aren't seeing the benefits, are seeing a devaluation in everything we have relating to cash (savings, wages, etc.).
Here's a chart that shows the proportion of the core groups involved. Follow the link and set the start point to 1970, which captures the time of the majority of the blowup in spending and lending. Yes Federal is the most and household is less and corporate is somewhere between, but for the most part, they all blew up very similarly. And the reason is because we're all shitting where we eat...
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/dataviz/z1/nonfinancial_debt…
I’m struggling to come up with a response to your analogy. Maybe because I just agree with you, or maybe because it’s just a bad analogy?
What’s the incentive? what’s the motivation to bash one another with rocks? is what I find myself asking.
"I also believe that most people are mostly good. It’s just that we live in a world where bad behavior is rewarded."
What evidence is there for this belief? It's a nice belief, but anthropologists keep finding evidence of brutality and violence. That just might be our default state, and civil society is what keeps it in check. I'd like to be wrong about that.
https://michaelshermer.com/sciam-columns/the-ignoble-savage/
Interesting strategy, or “I didn’t inhale” all over again?
When they redact files do they keep a fully clean copy or is this stuff just gone forever?
edit-I looked it up and they do keep an original. So maybe there is hope of seeing a revision instead of blacked out pages.
Anthropological evidence can be interpreted in so many ways. There's a ton of anthropological evidence that points towards mutual aid being the catalyst for our civil and advanced society. There's also a lot of evidence showing Paleolithic communities took care of individuals that were both mentally and physically disabled.
Is our present state, which is a wonderful achievement in organization not proof enough that mutual aid has played a larger role in the evolution of humankind than brutality and violence? Sure we bash each other skulls in, but we choose to get along more often than not because we know its more beneficial to do so.
Science and the metaphysical aspects of ecology strongly suggest the interconnectedness of all things, both animate and inanimate. Science has proven (and we don't even need science to prove this, we see it everyday in the most basic observation of our lives) "from quantum particles to vast ecosystems, changes in one part ripple through the whole system, demonstrating a fundamental unity and interdependence across the planet, the universe and all things within it."
Taking is how we survive. I need food so I kill plants and animals to feed myself. Plants and animals kill each other to feed themselves too. But its when killing is done needlessly that karma steps in. And it weighs down a heavy burden of our conscience. There may be no right or wrong, but there is a positive and a negative and its always more pleasant to be positive.
As far as I can tell, my belief that most people are mostly good is no more of less a belief that the contrary is true. So you go around believing that human beings (and you must inherently expand this to the universe as a whole), to be a bad, and brutal, and savage, place or thing to be. But how can this be? For we are, for I am. The universe is expanding, there is more light than darkness. The fact that we sit here right now and discuss this I think proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that good, or positive, always wins out over bad, or negative. Darkness is just the absence of light, whereas light includes darkness and just adds to it.
Either way even if I have not convinced you, would you rather go about perceiving the world as one who has faith in (believes in) humanity and the universe ( in a pantheistic sense)? Or would you rather go about your day believing in the fall of man, the non-connectedness of man with and within his environment and that brutality and violence is a fact of Nature greater than that of birth and creativity?... Considering these are both just beliefs and say we consider that there is equal validity to both, if one chooses to believe in the ultimate negativity of Nature, then what you are accepting or agreeing with, amounts to what is ultimately the belief in original sin.
There is no such thing as an atheist. People have no choice but to believe in one or the other of these two options. Using biblical terminology (I understand god from a Pantheist perspective btw, but its sometimes easiest to use biblical terminology), one chooses each and everyday to wake up and serve either the prince of darkness, or the God of light. Its a no-brainer in my mind which one (which idea) I choose to serve.
I know conversations tend to feel adversarial, especially on the internets, but the analogy has no negative connotation with how I think you're looking at things. I'm just saying why I choose the other angle. Guns are the easy parallel to rocks and surely we need some control there, I just think the greater gains are found elsewhere.
So. . . .I have a serious question?
Everyone her agrees that sexual predators male of female deserve prison. . .period..
Period . . I have a personal perspective on this, I do prefer them all dead. . . period..
But how do we adjudge who is first to be crucified......? Is it in a public forum for public blood thirst like the French when cut off a bunch of heads? . . . . .and we know what happened there.
Now, is it the mere name of anyone mentioned in any document that we are publicly executing here? Or is the punishment judged equal to the level of offense? Who is the judge? Is it televised to people who have no business knowing those things....contrary to being the way, most sa victims don't want to be id'ed or involved because, well, it was fucking TRAUMATIC. .
Punishment should come, if it's not to late, but this trial and punishment should not be universal knowledge....talk about humiliation for victims...Now the whole world knows your shit...
And the most unpopular opinion here. . .
This sounds like inquisition shit. . .everyone screaming Nazi this, fascist that, everyone is afraid to discuss openly thoughts due to the "mob" mentality that will come after others for pages on end. . . for simply asking a question that doesn't align with this singular perspective.
Just asking ....
Evidently, they redacted the files by drawing black boxes over the text. If you highlight the text, copy and paste, you get the unredacted version.
No it’s not that. I enjoy having to answer for my opinions. You and I agree far more than not. I’m just struggling with the analogy.
What is the incentive to bash eachother?
That is my answer, I agree with you. I would focus on the people not the rocks. I would ask why? What is the incentive?
Ahhh man. Trump belly aching about tarnished reputations and it’s all Massie’s fault. Trump get dumber by the day. Oh no! Not the bankers! Not the politicians! Not the top executives! Not foreign govt agents and diplomats! What will we ever do if these scum fucks have to prove their innocence???? Tge nerve of that Massie guy. What a turd.
I can't help but be struck by the fact that we're discussing the goodness of humanity in a thread about something so awful - young girls who suffered through a horrific experience of exploitation.. You claim that the fact that we are here discussing proves that good wins out. For whom? Us? Perhaps, but it so often doesn't seem to - and we can't speak on behalf of those for whom it doesn't.. As Dostoevsky so eloquently showed, when one tortured soul is enduring unimaginable torment, cosmic justice ceases to matter, and the thought of it can actually become quite offensive: .
"You see, Alyosha, perhaps it really will happen like that, and I shall live to see it or be resurrected, and then perhaps I too, seeing the mother embracing her child’s torturer. will cry out in unison with them, “You are just, O Lord,” but it will be against my will. While there’s still time I want to guard myself against this, and therefore I absolutely reject that higher harmony. It’s not worth one little tear from one single little tortured child, beating its breast with its little fists in its foul-smelling lock-up, and praying with its unexpiated tears to its “Dear Father God!” No, it’s not worth this, because those tears have remained unexpiated. And they have to be expiated, otherwise there can be no harmony. But how, how can they be expiated? Surely it isn’t possible? Or is it going to be done by avenging them? But what’s the good of avenging them, what’s the good of consigning their murderers to hell, what good can hell do when the children have already been tortured to death? And how can harmony exist if hell exists too? I want forgiveness, I want to embrace everyone, I want an end to suffering. And if the suffering of children is required to make up the total suffering necessary to attain the truth, then I say here and now that no truth is worth such a price. And above all, I don’t want the mother to embrace the torturer whose dogs tore her son apart! She has no right to forgive him! Let her, if she will, forgive him her own suffering, her own extreme anguish as a mother, but she has no right to forgive the suffering of her mutilated child; even if the child himself forgives, she has no right! And if that is so, if the right to forgive does not exist, then where is harmony? Is there in all the world a single being who could forgive and has the right to do so? I don’t want harmony; for the love of humankind, I don’t want it. I would rather that suffering were not avenged. I would prefer to keep my suffering unavenged and my abhorrence unplacated, even at the risk of being wrong. Besides, the price of harmony has been set too high, we can’t afford the entrance fee. And that’s why I hasten to return my entry ticket. If I ever want to call myself an honest man, I have to hand it back as soon as possible. And that’s exactly what I’m doing. It’s not that I don’t accept God, Alyosha; I’m just, with the utmost respect, handing Him back my ticket.”