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I've got a 2023 KX450 got a pro circuit pipe bunch of other aftermarket parts on it but I've weighed my bike three different times on two different scales and it's a legitimate $232 lb without gas That's about 3 and 1/2 lb lighter than stock and it's noticeable to me and it's noticeable in a good way and I guarantee you if I could drop my bike down to 225 lb I would do it which I can do if I want to spend about $3,000 on titanium and a select few other carbon fiber parts.. Would it make it a ill handling bike? I doubt it.. It might, but I don't think I'm fast enough to notice that a 10 lb lighter bike suddenly handles worse because it's lighter than it was stock.. All I've noticed so far with a 3 and 1/2 lb reduction is all positive..just my pov!
Theoretically there is an ideal weight for performance, reliability and cost. The current bikes could maybe lose a pound or two but nothing drastic before one or all of those three areas are affected.
I'm amazed that anyone can notice a few pounds. I can't notice a difference between a full vs almost empty fuel tank, and that's got to be around 10 pounds. But I can notice relatively small changes in suspension settings.
You're not considering a correlated variable............. You are getting more tired while your bike becomes lighter.
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Ah, the great weight debate…
It all boils down to simple physics. A lighter bike takes less energy to, and therefor is, faster to accelerate, faster to slow down (brakes), easier to corner, easier to handle/throw around, etc. This is simply not debatable, it’s just physics. Regardless of whether you can feel it or not, it’s there. A lighter bike will take less effort to ride faster.
Some might argue that a heavy bike is more stable, and that is sort of true. Ideally, a bike’s un-sprung weight would be insignificant relative to the sprung weight and you’d get a lot of stability that way as the wheels would just react to the ground without much movement in the chassis/rider. But that’s not the case on a heavy bike, nor a light bike as the un-sprung weight is always going to be a significant portion of the sprung weight. Properly tuned suspension is the best you can hope for on either case. And in either case, you’re not changing the rider weight, so an overall lighter bike is still winning in stability.
As @GrapeApe mentions, for an OEM bike you’ve got to optimize performance, weight, and reliability for a set cost. You can only get so far with that as you’re cost limited, so there’s not a lot of room to lose weight. The KTM 2016-2022 chassis was really light, but in 2023 they revised things to make them more reliable, most notably the wheels/spokes as there were lots of complaints about the spokes coming loose and breaking. That added weight, but regained the needed reliability.
But that doesn’t mean there’s no room for weight savings. On that same 2023 chassis, KTM revised the linkage bearings, bolts, etc. so the bearings and seals in the knuckle were all the same and shared bearings and seals with the swingarm and other parts of the bike. This cut costs, but those bigger bolts and bearings were a lot heavier. In 2025, they simply went back to the 2016 bearing design and spun it as reducing rigidity, which was total horseshit. They just needed some marketing nonsense to justify their design change (reversion to the old design once they realized they screwed up).
Personally on an MX tank I don' t tend to notice the difference personally, but on an off road tank I can definitely feel it. Not a world ending issue, just kind of like a 'huh, interesting "
The funniest thing is when you actually go ride, you get dirt on your bike. Especially if you are riding a track thats actually prepped, you can have 20 lbs of dirt on your fenders, swingarm, etc lol.
Spending all this $ on titanium shit to save 3lbs has always been the dumbest thing to me.
Losing 1lb of rider weight = dropping 3.14lb of bike weight. I can't explain the physics but it's true if you're over 30 years old.
your muddy bike would still be 3lb lighter with the Ti
so true, the whole conversation is silly worrying about a couple pounds and then hitting a fresh prepped track it all goes out the window!
Rider weight is such a big factor. Im 240 pounds I matched speed with a guy who was probably 100 pounds lighter than me on the same jump on us both on 450s. He cleared it, I came up short maybe 10 feet. When Im on my 250f Im wringing the life out of it, especially here at altitude to clear anything.
Trying to get back to my fighting weight of 220 anything lower and my life is miserable trying to maintain.
This may be true when talking about physics, but does 10lbs really matter on a dirt bike? I race a YZ450FX and at the beginning of the season I was out of shape, had double arm/wrist surgeries in the fall, I was so tired the last hour I couldn't stand. This summer I could stand until the last 30 min or so, and this fall I could stand the whole race. Fast forward to a couple weeks ago I could easily outride everyone I was riding with, even though I was on the heaviest bike. I'd say personal fitness and seat time are way more important than a 225lb bike.
I just love how it mattered literally the entire time right up until the bikes got all the dumb ass electronics and gained a bunch of weight then the marketing and mags started on about how weight doesn’t matter lol.
And now you all repeat it…
I’m surprised no one has considered how much easier/better feeling a 250f rides compared to a 450. What’s the weight difference between the ktm 250 and 450? A few lbs? If rotational mass is that noticeable, I’d feel like a lighter bike would also be noticeable. I will say how light a bike feels while riding is much more important than what the scale says
I had light 250 2-strokes back in the day, still no issues with a 25lbs heavier fx.
I have a 250f and two 450's, I don't ever feel this difference in rotational mass everyone talks about. I do notice how much shorter the gearing is on the 250's, sooo much shifting...
I think it's from all the pie.
I rode my buddy's fairly new CRF250RX this past weekend. It's heavier than the motocross model since it has the kickstand, bigger tank, and I'm not sure what else. I suspect it's heavier on the scale than my 2017.5 KTM 450 factory edition but it feels lighter to ride. The rotating mass certainly makes a difference in the feeling of weight, especially in low speed corners. My 450 just felt like more bike, even if it's lighter on the scale. But it's not a huge difference. My 450 by no means felt like a tank when I got back on it.
Pit Row
I agree with everything you said, but it's also true that weight is one of several factors involved in a direction change. At low speed a heavy bike will always feel like a heavy bike, but the current gen Honda is both heavier, and lighter feeling than just a few generations back when at speed. They've all done a really good job in recent times at playing the 2 liter bottle turned into a rocket game.
https://www.timhesterberg.net/water-bottle-rockets/how-to-make
All I know is the current 450’s are fuckin sickkkk.
I've never been a weight weenie on MX - but I'm a huge weight weenie on MTB -
For MX - a good rider triangle and properly set suspension is all I need, if I feel confident, weight of the bike isn't a thing - hell, I did a lot of good riding and winning on my 2009 yz450f - fer krist sake!
At ~193lbs, an early 80s RM125 felt REALLY light compared to the bikes today. Between the weight and the engine feel there is almost no comparison. But bikes today are really good overall.
It absolutely matters. The laws of physics don't just turn off because it's a dirt bike...And of course being in shape makes a huge difference. There's a few posts in this topic that seem to frame this as an either or scenario, which is very much isn't. You can lose weight, get in better shape, re-valve your suspension, whatever else, AND get a lighter bike. All will make you faster. Debating what is more important is fine, but arguing that the weight of the bike is irrelevant just isn't right.
10 pounds off a 230 pound bike is more than 4%. That's significant! Think about what you're doing when hitting a whoop section, when the bike gets kicked out, when scrubbing a jump, when going through ruts, etc.; you're basically wrestling this 230 pound machine the whole time you're riding it. If you're wrestling a 220 pound machine instead, it gets that much easier, plus it accelerates and brakes faster. And the faster a rider you are, the more important this is as you're effectively wrestling it harder. If you're just rolling around in a parking lot, weight doesn't matter much. But if you're really pushing it around a moto track, it makes a big difference.
Did someone mention pie ?
Well, I've lost 153 lbs of bike weight lol
I didn't mean it turns off the laws of physics, I meant that the difference in effort required between them is insignificant in an amateur level, even in a 2+ hour race if the rider is in decent shape. I'd argue that rider physical shape, weight placement, engine character, and chassis comfort are more important than +/- 15lbs total bike weight. I'll also take a bike that weighs more that I don't have to touch the spokes in 200 hours of smashing into rocks and roots. Shoot, my cheater tires I put on my bike probably added 10lbs...
Feels like you're riding a pitbike now, doesn't it? 😅
but it is just as important as to where that 4% is on the bike. 10 lbs, or 4% hanging off the rear up high is different than in the center of the bike down low. So the theory is not apples to apples. I don't think 4% is relevant. I will take the 4% low and centered over 2% up high and back. Your statement is true on paper, but in the real world its really minor and probably not noticeable to any of us if the weight is distributed properly.
Straw man argument.🤷♂️
I'm not comparing apples to oranges or anything like that I'll simply give an examples of factory level riders making their bikes light as possible and you go off on this r&d and factory bike components and all this crap and whatever I also give examples of your average racer Would choose a lighter bike over a heavier one as well.. I don't know maybe you're one of those guys that just likes to argue for argument's sake but I'm not into all that I'll just simply stating I wish the bikes were lighter and then you got everybody chiming in about performance and rideability and the budget of the high level factor riders and blah blah blah.. My original post wasn't anything about factory level bikes being lighter My original post was about I wish the bikes were lighter because they've become so heavy period so don't tell me I'm comparing apples to oranges cuz you obviously don't know what the hell you're talking about You just arguing for the sake of argument I guess hell I don't I'm done here
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