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That's cute. Planes have to survive heavy turbulence, lightning strikes, and heavy G's which all put heavy force on materials and the lightning strikes take out systems that have redundancy. Military planes can also survive some structural damage from battle.
The mentality here would be to use cheap materials on them, just like the cheap brake lever setup that we are talking about here.
Fo sho'! You can still get your finger on the inside part of the fulcrum and get a little bit of braking leverage out of it. 😁
My point was that the nominal loads on an airframe are dramatically lower than crash loads. If you designed for crash loads, you'd end up with a shitty airplane. Same thing applies here, though there are certainly steps that could have been taken to reduce the likelihood of damage as I pointed out earlier.
"there are certainly steps that could have been taken to reduce the likelihood of damage"
Exactly my point in making this thread.
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Did you get a call from Star yet?
Not yet, might be too late to salvage 500k and a Championship, we'll see.
I don't know why you are talking so much smack as you are not one to talk considering your shit was breaking what seemed every race not too long ago. Numerous threads about your products failing here. Shall we dig them all up and show all your broken triple clamps? Maybe you should call me for some consulting?
LOL, "breaking what seemed every race not too long ago" was three times over three years ago, all for reasons out of my control. I even wrote a blog about it; worth a read if you're open to learning something: https://www.luxonmx.com/blog-luxon-broken-triple-clamps-failure.html
I don't care to click on your link as your broken product was plastered all over instagram multiple times and some here. Whatever the problem was I'm glad you fixed it.
Good thing they had the carbon fiber reservoir guard! Otherwise Haiden might not have been able to finish.
Well when another rider piledrives their 400lb combined weight into you without even thinking about turning....a little lever can break.
You seem to be more agro than normal... You okay? Maybe i need to go back and read posts, this just doesn't seem like you...?
The problem was crashes and user error dumb ass, do you blame the manufacturer of your car when you hit a k-rail and sheer a wheel off?
The reality is if you were half as smart as you think you are you would be building and selling products yourself, not just telling everyone else how they can do better and making up fictional solutions in your head. It's real easy to come up with a "solution" in your head, it's a lot harder to do the work and actually implement/produce it.
"if you were half as smart as you think you are you would be building and selling products yourself,"
I do. I sell to Fortune 500 companies and I have to deal with tolerances so tight it would make you pucker. Enough paperwork to fill my office floor to ceiling for one contract alone, but that's beside the point.
I'm sorry you guys think I'm stupid for calling out a very poor decision to run a lever system on a critical control that doesn't safeguard failure from contact or a crash. Sorry I offended you.
Something will always fail, that's why we do a Failure Mode and Effects Analysis in product development. A consumer would want the lever to break before the master cylinder, because a lever is more affordable. In the ideal world I think you'd want your forks to bend before the chassis or triple clamps break as the crash would be less severe. At that point, survival over cost. Severity of the outcome is a big driver in the analysis.
So what about Deegan's situation? Cost isn't a major driving factor like for consumers. If the lever were too strong it could break the master cylinder off instead, and you might even end up with the thing flopping around. That's clearly no good. If it's too soft it will get bent every time the bike tips over, that's not good either. Something that articulates some, maybe with a ball joint and a detent so it pops back in place sounds ideal. It attempts to prevent other components from breaking and can be reset. So why wouldn't everyone use something like that? My guess would be weight, feel, and the infrequency of this failure mode. Having the extra articulation adds more failure points and more opportunity for slop, and might effect the ergonomics of the lever.
While I know it is possible for the ARC lever to have still broken in the crash, I believe it would not have. I was looking forward to Deegan cutting through the pack like Jett in 450 moto 1. Totally deflated when the broadcast pointed out the broken front brake lever.
I don't think you're stupid for pointing out the obvious (running a completely OEM lever at the pro level is a little bit questionable), I think you're a dumb ass for trying to drag a friend of mine's company through the mud with not only complete ignorance to the facts, but zero desire to even confront them when presented to you. I look forward to your future post in Non-moto about how AI has taken your middle management job, you'll get no sympathy from me.
It was the riders choice to run a stock lever.
I wasn't trying to drag anything through the mud until your friend kept popping off, read above again. If you can't take it, don't dish it out. And we've already exchanged words via private message and I'm sure he would like this to die. But if you want to keep it going, that's your choice.
As for my businesses, luckily AI can't take place of them until all my labor is replaced by robots in the field and in the factories, but that will take many many years to happen, and we'll all be long gone by then. I'm not so sure robots can take the place of a large part of my labor force anyways as it's very specialized and robots will need to have the capacity to learn on site and be smarter than humans, but never say never.
Pit Row
Damn, gonna need some ice for that burn.
Just a watched the Deegan video on YouTube it appears the brake lever was black and assuming arc. The clutch level was most definitely Arc.
For sure it didn’t look oem
It also looks like the lever is there in moto 2 in the video during the race..
Disclaimer watched the vid on my phone and my eye suck close up
I really have nothing to hide; it's all laid out in that link I posted above that you refuse to click on.
Not sure why you've gotten all worked up over this. Was my comment about your airplane analogy that offensive to you? Does it justify multiple posts here and threats to me and my business via PM? Given the number of down votes all your posts have been getting, it's not going too well for you. It's just an internet forum. Everything's going to be OK.
Comparing a front brake lever breaking in a no consequences race collision to a potentially life threatening aviation parts failure is more hyperbole than I'm willing to engage in with you. I will say from reading your posts after this one, though; you don't want answers/debate, you want people to agree with you that this is somehow worse/more sinister than it is. No thanks. Have the best day ever.
Threats to you? Very interesting, I tried to tell you it's really not a good idea to talk smack on a public forum from a business account. You can take that advice or leave it. I'm not sure why you dished it out to me first and did not expect it in return? Sorry but you agreed via PM that you were purely talking shit because you know Star would never call me. So it was your decision to talk smack, which is fine, that's most of what we do here. You can keep bumping it this to the top all you want, your choice.
As for downvotes, I already stated they are very welcome here as that's what the feature is designed for and the site encourages downvotes. I guess people have differing opinions on them and some people actually care, but I don't pay attention unless someone points it out. So since you mentioned it, if I look at this thread and the downvotes, it looks like we have 20 guys here who think Deegan's potential loss of a championship and 500K was completely unavoidable because there is no such thing as indestructible. That's 20 internet strangers who think that you can't engineer something to avoid that problem...and 25 people who think you can't avoid it breaking at the pivot point, and 20 internet strangers who can't figure out a solution to a simple avoidable problem that could be worth 500K next weekend. Why should I care when I know there are solutions? In fact, for business owners like us those downvotes are actually really good news, because these are the types of guys we are competing with in life.
Anyway, I'll take 46 downvotes if possible, for all posts if you like, because that's my lucky number.
"no consequences race collision"
This is where we disagree. I see 500k and a championship title, you see no consequences. We can agree to disagree.
No, I see no life threatening consequences which is what makes your analogy so much goofy hyperbole.
Polisport make an infused composite lever, they say is unbreakable. I use them, just awesome. This technology exists, so no reason to be snapping off levers in 2025. https://www.piep.pt/manetes-inquebraveis-polisport/?lang=en
What are you going to do after you design and build the perfect lever, and the rider says nah I like the feel of this other one better? There are plenty of great solutions available that would have helped in this situation but sometimes riders accept the very remote risk in favor of preferred feel. It's naive on your part to assume the team doesn't understand the potential consequences.
ARC makes a composite lever also. I have a friend that won't run anything else but ARC composite, but they feel too thick to me.
Pretty weird how much opposition there is to someone suggesting that there might be solutions to fixing a simple mechanical problem...... this sport is so opposed to excellence or perfection and it's just weird...... from training to head injuries to brake levers, I think some people subconsciously want the sport to stay in the stone ages because it makes it hard or core or something like that that they find appealing......
I haven't read the entire thread but don't mechanics pre-break the lever anymore by drilling a hole and creating a weak point that will break instead of the entire lever breaking?
Post a reply to: How is it possible in 2025 to lose a brake lever on a factory bike?