Legitimate Boot Question

Sidi atojo. I haven’t found a more supportive protective boot yet

Sidi and gaerne have the most protective toe boxes. Doesn’t really matter which model among those two brands. The ankle support can vary quite a bit. Sidi atojo, X-power, and cross air have better ankle support (against rolling your ankle) than just about anything. The atojo and Crossair also have a limit strap for ankle hyperextension. 

Sg12/22 and tech 10 are the only others that are close, but the tech 10 has a pretty soft toe. The footbed at the toe is stiffer than the tech 7 though. Again the gaerne and Sidi are still more protective there though. Gaerne and sidi fit quite a bit different so try both on although the sg22 and cross air do fit more similar than past models. 

Sidi's are some of the softest and flexible boots, I would definitely not go that route. Gaerne is ok. Alpinestars is king and on every pro for a reason. Yes it doesnt have a steel toe end, it has a large box with a designed crumple zone. I had a rider hit me head on, we both swerved at the last second and my foot go slammed by the underside of his bike as we leaned. It hit hard enough to snap off my IMS pegs through my boot and foot. Broke like 2 toes and that was it. I believe it would have been way worse with any other boot than the tech 10. 

Boots definitely get softer the more you ride in them. Atomic moto has some videos on his site and YouTube showing the flexibility of some popular boots. Astars are nowhere near as stiff as sidi in my experience and I have had tech 7 and 10. The 10 ankle doesn’t have the mobility of a sidi but it is much softer over the top of the toes. If you broken your foot in sg12 I don’t know kid any other boot would help unless they were all clapped out. 

Atojos aren’t made anymore, and they’ve since been replaced with a model that is almost identical to the atojos but includes an instinct/tech 10 style glue on sole in place of the SRS. The footbed stiffness was a result of the SRS, so the new boot probably is a lot softer. 

With what’s currently available, the crossfires are probably the stiffest around the sole (although the uppers flex a lot). Next would be classic stitchdown like gearne and forma. All the glue on sneaker style boots would be least stiff. 

I’ve found that my Gaerne’s have stayed firm & supportive longer than my last 2 pairs of Alpinestars combined…

Sidi crossfire 3 has a stiff toe box in my experience.

Nobody ever talks about the TCX comp evo 2 Michelin. I got a good deal on a pair and really like them. Good blend of protection and comfort. I can’t really comment on toe protection compared to other brands but the toe box is maybe on the taller side - though I have no problems shifting. 

I’ve owned TCX boots before and find them to be very good quality. 

Just adding some $0.02 for what it's worth.  With any of the top boots as mentioned above, I would think proper fitment would be the most critical versus the specific boot protection, as all high end boots should have very good protection.  By that, I mean it fits your foot perfect, relatively tight but not too tight.  SG22's have a slightly wider toe box than the SG12s.  Depending on how the SG12s fit you, the SG22 fit may not be what you want.  It's most important to try boots on and get the fit perfect.  Maybe that's me being captain obvious,  

Worn most all the brands over the last 40 years. Gaerne sg12 was my favorite. I prefer the Alpinestars tech 10 and have been wearing them for the last 5 years. 

Im non weight bearing for 3 months, and probably 3 more months before i can be athletic again from a pretty gnarly overjump and i was in Alpinestar Tech 10s. 

Not really gonna blame Astar cause i wasn’t wearing the bootie and it was a really gnarly OJ. 🤦‍♂️

How’d the boots even fit without the bootie? Seems like you’d be swimming in them. 

it felt fine tbh, i definitely didn’t think anything of it.

I came from tech 7s and i was just being stupid and figured that since i didn’t need them in Tech 7s, it wouldn’t be necessary in Tech 10s. Clearly i was wrong. 

Probably gonna be one of those mistakes that i’ll think back on and go “wtf was i thinking.” 

Crossfire 3 SRS is likely the stiffest soled boot. the Cross Air (their newest boot line) is significantly less stiff in the sole. I thoroughly enjoy the peg feel of them, but very very flexible in the sole right from the factory.

Also, try your boots on and break them in a bit before riding in the since you've got hardware (unless yours is to be removed). The screws in my lower leg (tibial rod) sometimes like to rub the inside of my boots the wrong way and create a really painful experience. Been putting off getting a consult to have the screws removed, as they do the same in my work boots from time to time

Cross fire is trash for ankle support so are instincts.

Tcx pro 2 are good

Tech 10s are good

Sg12s

Sidi atojo or whatever their new version of those are good

Rest enter at your own risk

rbm33, I've found boots definitely lose support over time / use. The plastic structure mostly remains the same but the padding inside packs out with use, allowing more movement inside and reducing the connection between the boot and wearer. Boots that use polyethylene padding or similar are more susceptible, more quickly. Boots with memory foam maintain their support longer but it still happens eventually with time and use. 

Regarding your injury, I am guessing the sole bent somehow. That is not easy to do to a welt sole boot when new when new, but I have seen them get softer after a lot of use. I've paid particular attention to SG-12s because that is what I wear. I have a local friend who puts in massive hours on SG12s, after what he guessed was 400 hours you could bend the forefoot at the sole easily. 

There are also some things that happen to the shape over time. One person who was "newgrading" his sg-12s had his old ones. When comparing, I noticed the toes on his old boots were permanently bent up a bit:


(Left is a new SG-22 size 12, middle is used SG-12 size 13, right is new SG-12 size 13.)

That could be something happening to the sole from use, but it also could be caused by torque load from stitching all those stiff materials together. That process of attaching a welt sole to an off road boot upper could be described as violent.

I agree with the people who said the Sidi Crossfire 3 SRS had the stiffest sole. By a noticeable amount IMO. That said, the new Sidi CrossAir X has less sole rigidity than the Crossfire, but has a more modern shaft design with considerably more support. I feel like it is an improvement overall. 

Generally speaking, at this point in boot design, welt sole boots have more support and durability than bonded or glued sole boots. I am definitely old school and love classical construction techniques and their quality, so this type is my preference.

Glued sole boots are easier and less expensive to produce. They have a more modern look, which younger riders clearly prefer. The sole compound tends toward softer, which seems to be to facilitate a good bond with the upper. Most importantly they can be imported under a "foxing band" construction classification, which has a lower duty. 

Glued sole boots have caught up somewhat with welt sole boots. I'd wager they could match them, except for the fact that people like softer construction. My guess is that PMs and designers are intentionally holding back adding support. What is really interesting is the massive change in support and rigidity between the latest Tech 7 and the previous one. A bold decision by Alps, a huge difference and improvement IMO.  Gonna be really interesting to see how people react to it. 

People would do themselves well by comparing each "zone" of a boot: sole rigidity, top of foot crush protection, heel impact padding, flexion/extension control, and lateral ankle/tib/fib support. 

To your specific question: I feel boots definitely deteriorate with time and use and definitely warrant replacement at some fixed interval. I don't know what point that is exactly, nor do I have a quantitative way to demonstrate it. But I have seen enough anecdotal info to be completely convinced. More times than I can count, when comparing fit/feel of a brand new boot with a used version of the exact same model, there was a significant difference in internal support. In some cases where the boot had a lot of hours, the plastic exterior, hinge, etc. worked fine, and looked great. However the inside was so packed out they seemed to have a fraction of their original support. 

HTH.

BP

P.S. - Interesting trend you may notice in this thread....people start out liking squishy boots, right up till they do not.

Crossfire 3s are pretty solid for ankle support. I’d argue they’re pretty similar in terms of support as my Cross Airs (Atojos without SRS sole essentially). Crossfire 2 was definitely not great for ankle support though

Just out of curiosity, how many years old, how many hours would you guess?

BP
 

I currently go back and forth between my Atojos and some Tech 7s and the brand new tech 7s certainly felt much less supportive than the 150 hour Atojos. 

Im kinda bummed they went to the Crossairs, I have grown to prefer the feel of the replaceable sole boots with the softer rubber but really still soles. I guess Crossfires are always an option but going from Crossfire 2 to the Atojo the weight difference was super noticeable. 

eBay still has atojos. I bought a second pair a while back and think I’ll have them around for 5-10 years easily judging by how my first pair

Is holding up

Waited till the glue failed keeping the soles on. Old boots are just more comfortable.

Might have to grab a pair, I got a killer deal on these tech 7s and I rotate between the two. I actually had a crash and the header was laying on my boot and melted a good area of my Atojos and they are still hanging in there haha. 

I’ve worn out 4 bikes before I’ve worn out the atojos. I’ve resoled them each winter, wipe with leather treatment occasionally and they are still incredibly supportive. Like you said better than many boots are brand new even as used as these are.

I find it amazing what some brands are ok with selling as “protection”

As far as when to replace the boots, Replace your boots as often as You can after You notice they start feeling worn.  I always had 2 or more pairs when I was riding a lot. When one started to not feel like the newer set I retired it and got another.I tried to have a newish pair that I only rode in every so often so I had the feeling of new boots to contrast my regular pair.  Yes that can be expensive, but the surgeries I ended up having cost me Thousands out of pocket and millions paid by insurance. 

 I only wore Alpinestars , they are the only boot make that makes my size boot. That said, most of my customers who have worn all the brands prefer Tech 10's for Moto  and Sidi for woods stuff.  And most agree that the Alpinestars protects the best, but may not have the long-term durability of some others. 

 I hope that You recover 100% and do not have any of the complications I and some others I know have had the same or similar complications from a Navicular injury. And I truly hope that You are able to return to riding and never think about it again. I only share my story because I did not listen to another racer who shared a similar one with me.

I had a very bad foot injury that included a crushed Navicular among other bones in my foot.  I was in my early 20's and waited the amount of time they told me to. I did everything to the letter. EXCEPT, I did not tell them I was still having pain until a year later.  Please do not keep riding without seeing a Dr. if You have pain that is NOT getting better with time. 

Naviculars' can be very difficult to heal, mine never healed . But the Dr. cleared me to race again. I raced a couple seasons before the pain became to much to enjoy riding. And that was when I found out that it had never healed. I had it fused, that introduced bacteria and I ended up with a bad MRSA infection that I thought I was going to die from. I can remember the day that I first felt the pain from that infection. I thought it was my shoe rubbing on the hardware. It was a slight burning feeling.  

 It all started out with a simple surgery and 2 pins. I had some other racers tell me to take more time off, I wish I had. I'll never know if that would have changed things. But I know that I ended up having too much pain to enjoy riding and had to stop. I also spent 10 years of my life in so much pain that I had to plan life around getting around with my bad foot and lost out of doing so much.

 I had some of the best surgeons in the North East working on my foot and sometimes shit just happens. Listen to Your body and take more time, ask more questions if You are feeling pain. It might be normal, or it might save you from years of pain.

I've been wearing Gaerne , (Sg12/SG22) i put around 100-125 hrs on my bikes . I've been buying anew pair every year and using the old set for spares 

Holy crap!

BP

Broke my navic in a worn out pair of AXOs. Got a plate and was non-weight bearing for 3 months. Aside from losing a little flex in the middle part of my foot it's all good. Been in Gaernes ever since.