Lorettas DQ

TeamGreen
Posts
37815
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
8/4/2025 8:41am
pwdad wrote:
This whole class is a cheater class.  Only an idiot would put a 60 kit and win though. But its pretty crazy overall.  The honest reality...

This whole class is a cheater class.  Only an idiot would put a 60 kit and win though. But its pretty crazy overall.  

The honest reality is a stock PW wouldn't even make it a lap around the track.  With a fine tooth comb (and someone who knows what they are looking for) every bike would be DQ'd.  Most are subtle with mods and don't overdo it.  The rest are blatant all out cheaters. Ive seen and heard it all now. Its by far the most cheated in class of any moto.  Only the few handful of dads who have been at that level recently truly realize how off the rails it is. 

If you take a stock PW and put a kid on it that is 15 lbs heavier than another kid.  They are 2 different bikes.  Interestingly at any areas, regionals or LLs.  These large kids that could almost ride a 65 (some already owning and practicing on 65s even) can pull a start.  

I know every class cheats but the reality a Cobra is a fast bike already.  Sometimes even when you add more power the kid doesnt go faster.  its not like that in the PWs.  The bikes are so terribly slow that each little mod is highly significant.  You can double horsepower 

It's a weird class. If you are truly one of the fast kids you go to Cobra Jr.  It's really a class for the kids who cant make on Cobra yet and the parents that want to drop $4-5k on a bike you can buy used for a grand.  Dont get me wrong, I love the racing and enjoy watching it.  Just wish Yamaha would sponsor the whole thing and pit crew up a fleet of random stockers like KTM does at Junior SX.  That would solve all of this. 

You can take the fastest kid in the world on a 50cc and put him on a stocker PW and he has a zero percent chance of winning.  No other class is like that.  And thats the problem summed up.  Maybe back in the day it was different, i dont know, but today thats the way it is.  

If this is the reality of the PW class…

Either get Yamaha to host it with their own product like KTM does at the Junior SX races during the Supercross season…or…GET RID OF IT. 

This shit is ridiculous. 🤣

Cheater PWs

You Can Not Make This Shit Up 

42
2
yak651
Posts
9094
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Appleton, WI, USA
8/4/2025 8:46am
pwdad wrote:
This whole class is a cheater class.  Only an idiot would put a 60 kit and win though. But its pretty crazy overall.  The honest reality...

This whole class is a cheater class.  Only an idiot would put a 60 kit and win though. But its pretty crazy overall.  

The honest reality is a stock PW wouldn't even make it a lap around the track.  With a fine tooth comb (and someone who knows what they are looking for) every bike would be DQ'd.  Most are subtle with mods and don't overdo it.  The rest are blatant all out cheaters. Ive seen and heard it all now. Its by far the most cheated in class of any moto.  Only the few handful of dads who have been at that level recently truly realize how off the rails it is. 

If you take a stock PW and put a kid on it that is 15 lbs heavier than another kid.  They are 2 different bikes.  Interestingly at any areas, regionals or LLs.  These large kids that could almost ride a 65 (some already owning and practicing on 65s even) can pull a start.  

I know every class cheats but the reality a Cobra is a fast bike already.  Sometimes even when you add more power the kid doesnt go faster.  its not like that in the PWs.  The bikes are so terribly slow that each little mod is highly significant.  You can double horsepower 

It's a weird class. If you are truly one of the fast kids you go to Cobra Jr.  It's really a class for the kids who cant make on Cobra yet and the parents that want to drop $4-5k on a bike you can buy used for a grand.  Dont get me wrong, I love the racing and enjoy watching it.  Just wish Yamaha would sponsor the whole thing and pit crew up a fleet of random stockers like KTM does at Junior SX.  That would solve all of this. 

You can take the fastest kid in the world on a 50cc and put him on a stocker PW and he has a zero percent chance of winning.  No other class is like that.  And thats the problem summed up.  Maybe back in the day it was different, i dont know, but today thats the way it is.  

TeamGreen wrote:
If this is the reality of the PW class…Either get Yamaha to host it with their own product like KTM does at the Junior SX races...

If this is the reality of the PW class…

Either get Yamaha to host it with their own product like KTM does at the Junior SX races during the Supercross season…or…GET RID OF IT. 

This shit is ridiculous. 🤣

Cheater PWs

You Can Not Make This Shit Up 

Exactly-do we really need PW class at the amateur national championship??

22
1
8/4/2025 8:59am
pwdad wrote:
This whole class is a cheater class.  Only an idiot would put a 60 kit and win though. But its pretty crazy overall.  The honest reality...

This whole class is a cheater class.  Only an idiot would put a 60 kit and win though. But its pretty crazy overall.  

The honest reality is a stock PW wouldn't even make it a lap around the track.  With a fine tooth comb (and someone who knows what they are looking for) every bike would be DQ'd.  Most are subtle with mods and don't overdo it.  The rest are blatant all out cheaters. Ive seen and heard it all now. Its by far the most cheated in class of any moto.  Only the few handful of dads who have been at that level recently truly realize how off the rails it is. 

If you take a stock PW and put a kid on it that is 15 lbs heavier than another kid.  They are 2 different bikes.  Interestingly at any areas, regionals or LLs.  These large kids that could almost ride a 65 (some already owning and practicing on 65s even) can pull a start.  

I know every class cheats but the reality a Cobra is a fast bike already.  Sometimes even when you add more power the kid doesnt go faster.  its not like that in the PWs.  The bikes are so terribly slow that each little mod is highly significant.  You can double horsepower 

It's a weird class. If you are truly one of the fast kids you go to Cobra Jr.  It's really a class for the kids who cant make on Cobra yet and the parents that want to drop $4-5k on a bike you can buy used for a grand.  Dont get me wrong, I love the racing and enjoy watching it.  Just wish Yamaha would sponsor the whole thing and pit crew up a fleet of random stockers like KTM does at Junior SX.  That would solve all of this. 

You can take the fastest kid in the world on a 50cc and put him on a stocker PW and he has a zero percent chance of winning.  No other class is like that.  And thats the problem summed up.  Maybe back in the day it was different, i dont know, but today thats the way it is.  

TeamGreen wrote:
If this is the reality of the PW class…Either get Yamaha to host it with their own product like KTM does at the Junior SX races...

If this is the reality of the PW class…

Either get Yamaha to host it with their own product like KTM does at the Junior SX races during the Supercross season…or…GET RID OF IT. 

This shit is ridiculous. 🤣

Cheater PWs

You Can Not Make This Shit Up 

yak651 wrote:

Exactly-do we really need PW class at the amateur national championship??

I watched a 50 race at Xmas it’s entertaining & funny . Some kids cut crazy lines with out looking like driving in& out of lanes without looking at your mirrors.  Bumping in corners . It’s all about pass that other 4-6 yr old. Dads yelling cut the inside on him . Then running to pick his bike up. 

2
2
Kyle978
Posts
1742
Joined
10/7/2013
Location
Dirt, NM, USA
8/4/2025 9:04am

In my opinion, PW's should be ridden by children that look like drunk bobbleheads. Once they are no longer drunk bobbleheads, they should be on a KTM or Cobra. 

40
1

The Shop

agn5008
Posts
2100
Joined
3/8/2021
Location
PA, PA, USA
8/4/2025 9:17am
crt32 wrote:
Word on streats was60 Kit, QT Gear, Ceramic Bearings, Different drive shaft, different headBasically anything you could change was. The "teammate's" bike was torn down too...

Word on streats was

60 Kit, QT Gear, Ceramic Bearings, Different drive shaft, different head

Basically anything you could change was. The "teammate's" bike was torn down too but was legal.

My opinion is they didnt think they would get top 10, ripped holeshot, bike got put in lock down and they had no way to escape. 

And plenty of kids were on legal bikes, our buddy ran fastest lap in moto 2 and I know his is legal because we have same motor builder. 

This may be a dumb question but why is a “motor builder” needed if the motor needs to be stock? 

33
8/4/2025 9:28am
crt32 wrote:
Word on streats was60 Kit, QT Gear, Ceramic Bearings, Different drive shaft, different headBasically anything you could change was. The "teammate's" bike was torn down too...

Word on streats was

60 Kit, QT Gear, Ceramic Bearings, Different drive shaft, different head

Basically anything you could change was. The "teammate's" bike was torn down too but was legal.

My opinion is they didnt think they would get top 10, ripped holeshot, bike got put in lock down and they had no way to escape. 

And plenty of kids were on legal bikes, our buddy ran fastest lap in moto 2 and I know his is legal because we have same motor builder. 

agn5008 wrote:

This may be a dumb question but why is a “motor builder” needed if the motor needs to be stock? 

Blue printing .  Say it had a power valve all kinds of mods or blue printing you can do.  

2
2
Sparkalounger
Posts
1718
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
8/4/2025 9:37am
crt32 wrote:
Word on streats was60 Kit, QT Gear, Ceramic Bearings, Different drive shaft, different headBasically anything you could change was. The "teammate's" bike was torn down too...

Word on streats was

60 Kit, QT Gear, Ceramic Bearings, Different drive shaft, different head

Basically anything you could change was. The "teammate's" bike was torn down too but was legal.

My opinion is they didnt think they would get top 10, ripped holeshot, bike got put in lock down and they had no way to escape. 

And plenty of kids were on legal bikes, our buddy ran fastest lap in moto 2 and I know his is legal because we have same motor builder. 

agn5008 wrote:

This may be a dumb question but why is a “motor builder” needed if the motor needs to be stock? 

Freudian slip?

2
lumpy790
Posts
11858
Joined
9/18/2007
Location
York, SC, USA
8/4/2025 9:40am Edited Date/Time 8/4/2025 9:42am
lumpy790 wrote:
Makes no sense since the PW50 class was protest central bad enough that they started automatically tearing down the top 10 or 15 bikes since around...

Makes no sense since the PW50 class was protest central bad enough that they started automatically tearing down the top 10 or 15 bikes since around the 1990’s.

pwdad wrote:

That's not true.

Thats odd because I have stood there and watched them tearing all of them down after the 3rd moto at LL and checking them.

2
4
Tiki
Posts
10700
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
Corona, CA, USA
8/4/2025 9:48am
LungButter wrote:

Has anybody blamed Matthes or DC yet?

This is Implied. No one needs to say anything. 

18
1
Renner153
Posts
1676
Joined
12/10/2008
Location
Mulberry, FL, USA
8/4/2025 9:49am
yak651 wrote:

Come on man, how good of friends are you with the Rays?

Renner153 wrote:
I wouldn’t say I’m very good friends. Have t talked to them in years. I just know how the PW class is. Happens almost every year...

I wouldn’t say I’m very good friends. Have t talked to them in years. I just know how the PW class is. Happens almost every year. My dad builds a ton of them and it’s a thing at every national and local race. The PW dads are the worst when it comes to cheating for their kids. 

Are you saying your dad builds cheater bikes? 

He could if that is what the customer wanted, he knows all the secrets. But typically, no he just rebuilds them and when a customer "needs more" he suggest buying a new one.

3
2
Kenny Banyan
Posts
5231
Joined
6/2/2024
Location
NW Washington, WA, USA
8/4/2025 9:50am

WOW!

 

I agree that cheaters  should receive  a 2 year ban or more from ANY racing ANYWHERE.

TeamGreen wrote:
G. Gordon,Please see the following revisions to your rule in the interest of fairness…“I agree that the ‘Cheater Parents’ should receive a 2 year ban...

G. Gordon,

Please see the following revisions to your rule in the interest of fairness…

“I agree that the ‘Cheater Parents’ should receive a 2 year ban or more from going to or participating in ANY racing ANYWHERE.”

Thank you, 

The Management 

Nooooo, the kid is getting penalized for the actions of the parents. A stiff fine would be a much better way to handle it.

7
Kenny Banyan
Posts
5231
Joined
6/2/2024
Location
NW Washington, WA, USA
8/4/2025 9:55am
McG194 wrote:

I'm all for a fistfight in the pits. If you're running a cheater PW50, it's time to pass out the ouchies. 

Nooooooo!

1
Tiki
Posts
10700
Joined
8/1/2006
Location
Corona, CA, USA
8/4/2025 9:56am Edited Date/Time 8/4/2025 9:57am
pwdad wrote:
This whole class is a cheater class.  Only an idiot would put a 60 kit and win though. But its pretty crazy overall.  The honest reality...

This whole class is a cheater class.  Only an idiot would put a 60 kit and win though. But its pretty crazy overall.  

The honest reality is a stock PW wouldn't even make it a lap around the track.  With a fine tooth comb (and someone who knows what they are looking for) every bike would be DQ'd.  Most are subtle with mods and don't overdo it.  The rest are blatant all out cheaters. Ive seen and heard it all now. Its by far the most cheated in class of any moto.  Only the few handful of dads who have been at that level recently truly realize how off the rails it is. 

If you take a stock PW and put a kid on it that is 15 lbs heavier than another kid.  They are 2 different bikes.  Interestingly at any areas, regionals or LLs.  These large kids that could almost ride a 65 (some already owning and practicing on 65s even) can pull a start.  

I know every class cheats but the reality a Cobra is a fast bike already.  Sometimes even when you add more power the kid doesnt go faster.  its not like that in the PWs.  The bikes are so terribly slow that each little mod is highly significant.  You can double horsepower 

It's a weird class. If you are truly one of the fast kids you go to Cobra Jr.  It's really a class for the kids who cant make on Cobra yet and the parents that want to drop $4-5k on a bike you can buy used for a grand.  Dont get me wrong, I love the racing and enjoy watching it.  Just wish Yamaha would sponsor the whole thing and pit crew up a fleet of random stockers like KTM does at Junior SX.  That would solve all of this. 

You can take the fastest kid in the world on a 50cc and put him on a stocker PW and he has a zero percent chance of winning.  No other class is like that.  And thats the problem summed up.  Maybe back in the day it was different, i dont know, but today thats the way it is.  

TeamGreen wrote:
If this is the reality of the PW class…Either get Yamaha to host it with their own product like KTM does at the Junior SX races...

If this is the reality of the PW class…

Either get Yamaha to host it with their own product like KTM does at the Junior SX races during the Supercross season…or…GET RID OF IT. 

This shit is ridiculous. 🤣

Cheater PWs

You Can Not Make This Shit Up 

HOLE-LEE CHIT.  Its a no brainer because this is the truest sense of Win-Win. Qualify on your bike, race on Yamaha's provided bikes, just get you and the family to the event. Cost effective for those getting into the sport; Yamaha sells the bikes (easily, I bet none make the trip back to Yamaha) after the race, and we have an overseer on the only class that has one MFG. 

This is the smartest thing to come from this thread. I would even say take it further in the other classes. Amateur racing has been hosed over the years with indirect cheating. The Claim on Deegan's 250F was the Fire Alarm that everyone heard and no one did a thing. 

22
pwdad
Posts
15
Joined
1/18/2024
Location
California, CA, USA
8/4/2025 10:07am
lumpy790 wrote:
Makes no sense since the PW50 class was protest central bad enough that they started automatically tearing down the top 10 or 15 bikes since around...

Makes no sense since the PW50 class was protest central bad enough that they started automatically tearing down the top 10 or 15 bikes since around the 1990’s.

pwdad wrote:

That's not true.

lumpy790 wrote:

Thats odd because I have stood there and watched them tearing all of them down after the 3rd moto at LL and checking them.

I dont know what year that was and sure maybe that happened one year.  Im telling you over the last few years that is not the case.  This year the top 10 bikes were not automatically torn down.  You must be protested and not many were.  When everyone is cheating no one is going to protest someone or they will be protested back. 

1
1
8/4/2025 10:08am

They need to just get rid of this stupid class 

15
2
LungButter
Posts
8684
Joined
1/9/2016
Location
Yellow Pine, ID, USA
8/4/2025 10:11am

This begs the question.... did/does the WMX Championship have displacement rules?

5
1
MXD
Posts
2719
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
8/4/2025 10:20am

Poor kid. 

Idiot parents.

10
JazzyJJ
Posts
1926
Joined
12/1/2020
Location
Nunya, WY, USA
8/4/2025 10:27am

They need to just get rid of this stupid class 

$$$$$

4
mikelawlor
Posts
179
Joined
12/4/2022
Location
Johnsonville, NY, USA
8/4/2025 10:34am

I don’t think it would be a big deal for Yamaha to put up 42 pw50s at the ranch. Throw some bars, tires on them and have the motors with seals on them. Obviously ride your own bike at area and regional but to cut all the bs have Yamaha show up with a hauler full of them and be done with it. 

10
6
JazzyJJ
Posts
1926
Joined
12/1/2020
Location
Nunya, WY, USA
8/4/2025 10:38am
mikelawlor wrote:
I don’t think it would be a big deal for Yamaha to put up 42 pw50s at the ranch. Throw some bars, tires on them and...

I don’t think it would be a big deal for Yamaha to put up 42 pw50s at the ranch. Throw some bars, tires on them and have the motors with seals on them. Obviously ride your own bike at area and regional but to cut all the bs have Yamaha show up with a hauler full of them and be done with it. 

Who's paying the $100k for that to happen?

10
2
TeamGreen
Posts
37815
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
8/4/2025 10:43am
Kyle978 wrote:
In my opinion, PW's should be ridden by children that look like drunk bobbleheads. Once they are no longer drunk bobbleheads, they should be on a...

In my opinion, PW's should be ridden by children that look like drunk bobbleheads. Once they are no longer drunk bobbleheads, they should be on a KTM or Cobra. 

In my opinion…

Kyle should give USMCA PW/Beginner - Child Specific Courses/Instruction including instructing parents to NOT PUT A GIANT HELMET ON THEIR CHILD’S HEAD…and jus’ help Get The Moto Started Correctly.😂

But, I could be wrong. 

Btw, I often put little kids on electrics/PWs in full-face mtb/bmx helmets to save their necks…literally.

Kyle, hope you’re kicking ass and taking names. Our bro is doing well, pushing lil’ Z around town and gettin’ back to his healthy and happy self. Let’s all hang sometime and tell lies, talk about our dogs and all the things we should be doin’ (which is exactly what me & Kenny did this weekend!).

Ride fast.

Get your sessions in.

Stay Stoked.


Manny 

2
2
kage173
Posts
3097
Joined
11/27/2015
Location
USA
8/4/2025 10:44am Edited Date/Time 8/4/2025 10:46am
Motofinne wrote:
I just do not get how you have the face to show up to the next race as a parent after something like that. Shameful, and...

I just do not get how you have the face to show up to the next race as a parent after something like that. Shameful, and absolutely horrendous parenting.

I guess when you've been around motorsports for long enough, you start getting numb to it and thinking its ok (im not saying that it is). 

In my opinion, motocross cheating is very tame vs cars. Good lord, the things you'll see at a local 1/8 mile stock car track will impress the engineers at NASA. 

12
TeamGreen
Posts
37815
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
8/4/2025 10:51am
mikelawlor wrote:
I don’t think it would be a big deal for Yamaha to put up 42 pw50s at the ranch. Throw some bars, tires on them and...

I don’t think it would be a big deal for Yamaha to put up 42 pw50s at the ranch. Throw some bars, tires on them and have the motors with seals on them. Obviously ride your own bike at area and regional but to cut all the bs have Yamaha show up with a hauler full of them and be done with it. 

JazzyJJ wrote:

Who's paying the $100k for that to happen?

Anyone with enough brains and balls to promote and sell a bunch of PWs. That’s “who” 🤣 Hell, Kawi could do it with one of the “electrics” that they’re sitting on.

FTR, Kawi was the 1st to show up at The First LL’s…with a semi…and even put some of us on pre-prod ‘83s…gave us all a bunch of fresh tires…parts and tuning help…etc., etc., etc…anyone-else remember Dave Jordan?

Or…Big Dave Coombs on the tractor…?

Getting so stuck in the mud so bad that we had to help each-other get them out and no-one left the mud hole ‘til we were all “out and running”…? (125B in ‘82…as OG as it gets).

Contrary to all the shit talk…LL’s is an amazing experience for the kids. Period.

But, I digress….

8
2
yak651
Posts
9094
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Appleton, WI, USA
8/4/2025 10:53am
mikelawlor wrote:
I don’t think it would be a big deal for Yamaha to put up 42 pw50s at the ranch. Throw some bars, tires on them and...

I don’t think it would be a big deal for Yamaha to put up 42 pw50s at the ranch. Throw some bars, tires on them and have the motors with seals on them. Obviously ride your own bike at area and regional but to cut all the bs have Yamaha show up with a hauler full of them and be done with it. 

JazzyJJ wrote:

Who's paying the $100k for that to happen?

Pretty sure they can sell them for $100 less than retail after the event. More than pay for the advertising 

7
1
yak651
Posts
9094
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
Appleton, WI, USA
8/4/2025 10:54am
TeamGreen wrote:
If this is the reality of the PW class…Either get Yamaha to host it with their own product like KTM does at the Junior SX races...

If this is the reality of the PW class…

Either get Yamaha to host it with their own product like KTM does at the Junior SX races during the Supercross season…or…GET RID OF IT. 

This shit is ridiculous. 🤣

Cheater PWs

You Can Not Make This Shit Up 

yak651 wrote:

Exactly-do we really need PW class at the amateur national championship??

I watched a 50 race at Xmas it’s entertaining & funny . Some kids cut crazy lines with out looking like driving in& out of lanes...

I watched a 50 race at Xmas it’s entertaining & funny . Some kids cut crazy lines with out looking like driving in& out of lanes without looking at your mirrors.  Bumping in corners . It’s all about pass that other 4-6 yr old. Dads yelling cut the inside on him . Then running to pick his bike up. 

Agree it’s great seeing the kids out there at a local event. That’s where they belong. If you are at the point of spending crazy money to chase a national championship get on a bike built for moto

3
GrapeApe
Posts
9125
Joined
6/7/2010
Location
Mc Kinney, TX, USA
8/4/2025 10:55am
pwdad wrote:
This whole class is a cheater class.  Only an idiot would put a 60 kit and win though. But its pretty crazy overall.  The honest reality...

This whole class is a cheater class.  Only an idiot would put a 60 kit and win though. But its pretty crazy overall.  

The honest reality is a stock PW wouldn't even make it a lap around the track.  With a fine tooth comb (and someone who knows what they are looking for) every bike would be DQ'd.  Most are subtle with mods and don't overdo it.  The rest are blatant all out cheaters. Ive seen and heard it all now. Its by far the most cheated in class of any moto.  Only the few handful of dads who have been at that level recently truly realize how off the rails it is. 

If you take a stock PW and put a kid on it that is 15 lbs heavier than another kid.  They are 2 different bikes.  Interestingly at any areas, regionals or LLs.  These large kids that could almost ride a 65 (some already owning and practicing on 65s even) can pull a start.  

I know every class cheats but the reality a Cobra is a fast bike already.  Sometimes even when you add more power the kid doesnt go faster.  its not like that in the PWs.  The bikes are so terribly slow that each little mod is highly significant.  You can double horsepower 

It's a weird class. If you are truly one of the fast kids you go to Cobra Jr.  It's really a class for the kids who cant make on Cobra yet and the parents that want to drop $4-5k on a bike you can buy used for a grand.  Dont get me wrong, I love the racing and enjoy watching it.  Just wish Yamaha would sponsor the whole thing and pit crew up a fleet of random stockers like KTM does at Junior SX.  That would solve all of this. 

You can take the fastest kid in the world on a 50cc and put him on a stocker PW and he has a zero percent chance of winning.  No other class is like that.  And thats the problem summed up.  Maybe back in the day it was different, i dont know, but today thats the way it is.  

TeamGreen wrote:
If this is the reality of the PW class…Either get Yamaha to host it with their own product like KTM does at the Junior SX races...

If this is the reality of the PW class…

Either get Yamaha to host it with their own product like KTM does at the Junior SX races during the Supercross season…or…GET RID OF IT. 

This shit is ridiculous. 🤣

Cheater PWs

You Can Not Make This Shit Up 

Tiki wrote:
HOLE-LEE CHIT.  Its a no brainer because this is the truest sense of Win-Win. Qualify on your bike, race on Yamaha's provided bikes, just get you...

HOLE-LEE CHIT.  Its a no brainer because this is the truest sense of Win-Win. Qualify on your bike, race on Yamaha's provided bikes, just get you and the family to the event. Cost effective for those getting into the sport; Yamaha sells the bikes (easily, I bet none make the trip back to Yamaha) after the race, and we have an overseer on the only class that has one MFG. 

This is the smartest thing to come from this thread. I would even say take it further in the other classes. Amateur racing has been hosed over the years with indirect cheating. The Claim on Deegan's 250F was the Fire Alarm that everyone heard and no one did a thing. 

What do you mean no one did a thing, they changed the claiming rules. Not that claiming has anything to do with this thread . . .

2
Rickyisms
Posts
5946
Joined
10/5/2017
Location
USA
8/4/2025 11:08am
Motofinne wrote:
I just do not get how you have the face to show up to the next race as a parent after something like that. Shameful, and...

I just do not get how you have the face to show up to the next race as a parent after something like that. Shameful, and absolutely horrendous parenting.

kage173 wrote:
I guess when you've been around motorsports for long enough, you start getting numb to it and thinking its ok (im not saying that it is). In...

I guess when you've been around motorsports for long enough, you start getting numb to it and thinking its ok (im not saying that it is). 

In my opinion, motocross cheating is very tame vs cars. Good lord, the things you'll see at a local 1/8 mile stock car track will impress the engineers at NASA. 

In stock cars there’s cheating, and there’s “working in the grey area”. There’s a very thin line between the two. Nothing on race day was more nerve wracking than going through the tech shed at the end of the night sometimes. 

3
RichieW13
Posts
2524
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
8/4/2025 11:26am
Radical wrote:
This technique will work for any engine where the spark plug is centered on the head and facing straight down (directly toward the crankshaft).So, almost all...

This technique will work for any engine where the spark plug is centered on the head and facing straight down (directly toward the crankshaft).

So, almost all 2 strokes, and many 4 strokes.

Measuring stroke is easy.   Just use the depth feature on a set of calipers, or a depth gauge with appropriate extensions, and calculate the difference between bottom dead center and top dead center.  If using calipers, even short ones, it may require removing the fuel tank.  

For the bore, the tool I found wasn't what I was expecting.  It's much simpler and only $28.

It's a scissor device, made for this purpose, that fits through a spark plug hole.  It should be accurate enough to detect cheating, and should work for both 2 and 4 stroke, as long as the spark plug hole is close to centered on the head, and facing straight down, toward the crankshaft.

The dimension on one side of the scissor (inside the cylinder) is mechanically mirrored to the other side (outside) and can easily be measured.

https://wahlracing.com/product/bore-scissor-tool/

Bore x Stroke provides the displacement (of course).

Evidently, cart racing and other motorsports use this technique for the same purpose.

The other techniques I found are undesirable since they require either filling the cylinder with some type of oil at bottom dead center, then measuring the volume that exits the cylinder when bringing it to TDC, or devices that measure air volume that exits (wouldn't work for 2 strokes), but requires removal of the rockers so that all valves are closed during the tests.

Can you easily measure stroke on a bike without a kickstarter?  How do you get top dead center with an electric start?

1
1
Rickyisms
Posts
5946
Joined
10/5/2017
Location
USA
8/4/2025 11:28am Edited Date/Time 8/4/2025 11:28am
Radical wrote:
This technique will work for any engine where the spark plug is centered on the head and facing straight down (directly toward the crankshaft).So, almost all...

This technique will work for any engine where the spark plug is centered on the head and facing straight down (directly toward the crankshaft).

So, almost all 2 strokes, and many 4 strokes.

Measuring stroke is easy.   Just use the depth feature on a set of calipers, or a depth gauge with appropriate extensions, and calculate the difference between bottom dead center and top dead center.  If using calipers, even short ones, it may require removing the fuel tank.  

For the bore, the tool I found wasn't what I was expecting.  It's much simpler and only $28.

It's a scissor device, made for this purpose, that fits through a spark plug hole.  It should be accurate enough to detect cheating, and should work for both 2 and 4 stroke, as long as the spark plug hole is close to centered on the head, and facing straight down, toward the crankshaft.

The dimension on one side of the scissor (inside the cylinder) is mechanically mirrored to the other side (outside) and can easily be measured.

https://wahlracing.com/product/bore-scissor-tool/

Bore x Stroke provides the displacement (of course).

Evidently, cart racing and other motorsports use this technique for the same purpose.

The other techniques I found are undesirable since they require either filling the cylinder with some type of oil at bottom dead center, then measuring the volume that exits the cylinder when bringing it to TDC, or devices that measure air volume that exits (wouldn't work for 2 strokes), but requires removal of the rockers so that all valves are closed during the tests.

RichieW13 wrote:

Can you easily measure stroke on a bike without a kickstarter?  How do you get top dead center with an electric start?

You can turn the engine over by the stator with your hand. 

6
Mr. Afterbar
Posts
2431
Joined
5/13/2019
Location
Green Bay, WI, USA
8/4/2025 11:30am
Radical wrote:
This technique will work for any engine where the spark plug is centered on the head and facing straight down (directly toward the crankshaft).So, almost all...

This technique will work for any engine where the spark plug is centered on the head and facing straight down (directly toward the crankshaft).

So, almost all 2 strokes, and many 4 strokes.

Measuring stroke is easy.   Just use the depth feature on a set of calipers, or a depth gauge with appropriate extensions, and calculate the difference between bottom dead center and top dead center.  If using calipers, even short ones, it may require removing the fuel tank.  

For the bore, the tool I found wasn't what I was expecting.  It's much simpler and only $28.

It's a scissor device, made for this purpose, that fits through a spark plug hole.  It should be accurate enough to detect cheating, and should work for both 2 and 4 stroke, as long as the spark plug hole is close to centered on the head, and facing straight down, toward the crankshaft.

The dimension on one side of the scissor (inside the cylinder) is mechanically mirrored to the other side (outside) and can easily be measured.

https://wahlracing.com/product/bore-scissor-tool/

Bore x Stroke provides the displacement (of course).

Evidently, cart racing and other motorsports use this technique for the same purpose.

The other techniques I found are undesirable since they require either filling the cylinder with some type of oil at bottom dead center, then measuring the volume that exits the cylinder when bringing it to TDC, or devices that measure air volume that exits (wouldn't work for 2 strokes), but requires removal of the rockers so that all valves are closed during the tests.

RichieW13 wrote:

Can you easily measure stroke on a bike without a kickstarter?  How do you get top dead center with an electric start?

You remove a single plug from the ignition cover and turn the engine over with a socket and ratchet. 

5

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