Jett’s dominance

7/17/2025 4:39am
If the entire roster of current 450 riders took MX as serious as they do SX, then no I don’t think Jett would be as dominant...

If the entire roster of current 450 riders took MX as serious as they do SX, then no I don’t think Jett would be as dominant outdoors. Do I think he’d be the favorite, yes, but I think we’d see more battles for wins and he wouldn’t have as easy of a time rebounding from bad starts or mistakes.

If you are wondering what I am basing my assessment on, I base it on the fact that when Eli was fairly healthy and committed at the beginning of this MX season, Jett lost motos within a few rounds and looked nowhere near as dominant as he did in ‘23. He looked very beatable with Eli being his main competition. Now that Eli is checked out along with everyone else except Hunter, Jett looks a lot more dominant.

Herr Lich wrote:
I disagree. Turning to the roster of riders argument first, excluding Eli (I'll return to him), I don't think any of them would touch Jett. One by...

I disagree. Turning to the roster of riders argument first, excluding Eli (I'll return to him), I don't think any of them would touch Jett. 

One by one: 

Anderson: not in a million years

Webb: Not in the same ballpark, or city, or state, or country, or region of the world, or planet, solar system, universe and so on....

Roczen: He may run near the front for awhile, but he wouldn't beat him

As for AP: If he were back to his early season form he still wouldn't beat Jett as Jett is currently riding. 

This ties into the Eli argument. I think there's a couple of reasons why he was closer to Jett earlier in the season. First, he'd been practising motocross for quite awhile before the outdoors season started. Jett only had three weeks on the bike and was coming back from a major injury (more major than Eli's). Next, Jett (and Hunter) were still figuring out the bike - they've improved it a lot and consequently are able to go faster. I acknowledge Eli may have a secret injury or something else going on, but even were this not the case, I don't think he'd have anything for this mid-season Jett. 

I think a fully up to speed Chase - and Hunter - are the only riders who could potentially beat Jett on occasion going forward (as Hunter just did). 

We agree on something… AP, Chase, and Eli are all not clicking right now.What we don’t agree on… with the 3 above not clicking—I think it...

We agree on something… AP, Chase, and Eli are all not clicking right now.

What we don’t agree on… with the 3 above not clicking—I think it 100% makes Jett appear more dominant right now. When two of the three above were healthy to start the season Jett didn’t look like he does currently. As soon as those two, AP and Tomac, took a dive, Jett started looking untouchable right on cue. I can’t ignore that correlation. You can speculate that Jett looked beatable early on only because his bike wasn’t dialed, but the timing of his rise in dominance still lines up with the decline of his main competition (Eli).


I think you’re discounting Roczen, Webb, and Anderson quite a bit. All have beaten Jett in SX and all haven’t given a rats ass about MX for years. Webb and Anderson have never really cared about MX on the 450. But, with Roczen and Webb in particular, I firmly believe if they poured their heart and soul in to MX like they do SX, they’d be battling with Jett. Both are far superior riders to AP and we saw that AP could hold his own. Especially Kenny, he is an all time great outdoors despite what the stats say, and AP is nowhere near his level.

I dont think you give Anderson enough credit for how good he was in mx but nobody really does. He might not care as much now but he was a great outdoor rider. He was just unfortunate to race prime Eli Tomac, Roczen, and Marv was no slouch. In '22 when Chase and Eli were pushing each other to insane levels of speed, Anderson was the best of the rest a lot of times. 

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cool_hand
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7/17/2025 5:26am

Jett is a freak of nature.  RC would still beat him for 10 years if they started at the same time. 

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MOTO13
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7/17/2025 6:02am

Jett is Ronny Lechien without the vices holding him back Wink

From my memory...Lechien hated practicing and testing. Sometimes he'd show and sometimes he wouldn't. He was basically...have my bike ready on race day...I'll race, then I'll leave. 

7/17/2025 7:03am
Herr Lich wrote:
I disagree. Turning to the roster of riders argument first, excluding Eli (I'll return to him), I don't think any of them would touch Jett. One by...

I disagree. Turning to the roster of riders argument first, excluding Eli (I'll return to him), I don't think any of them would touch Jett. 

One by one: 

Anderson: not in a million years

Webb: Not in the same ballpark, or city, or state, or country, or region of the world, or planet, solar system, universe and so on....

Roczen: He may run near the front for awhile, but he wouldn't beat him

As for AP: If he were back to his early season form he still wouldn't beat Jett as Jett is currently riding. 

This ties into the Eli argument. I think there's a couple of reasons why he was closer to Jett earlier in the season. First, he'd been practising motocross for quite awhile before the outdoors season started. Jett only had three weeks on the bike and was coming back from a major injury (more major than Eli's). Next, Jett (and Hunter) were still figuring out the bike - they've improved it a lot and consequently are able to go faster. I acknowledge Eli may have a secret injury or something else going on, but even were this not the case, I don't think he'd have anything for this mid-season Jett. 

I think a fully up to speed Chase - and Hunter - are the only riders who could potentially beat Jett on occasion going forward (as Hunter just did). 

We agree on something… AP, Chase, and Eli are all not clicking right now.What we don’t agree on… with the 3 above not clicking—I think it...

We agree on something… AP, Chase, and Eli are all not clicking right now.

What we don’t agree on… with the 3 above not clicking—I think it 100% makes Jett appear more dominant right now. When two of the three above were healthy to start the season Jett didn’t look like he does currently. As soon as those two, AP and Tomac, took a dive, Jett started looking untouchable right on cue. I can’t ignore that correlation. You can speculate that Jett looked beatable early on only because his bike wasn’t dialed, but the timing of his rise in dominance still lines up with the decline of his main competition (Eli).


I think you’re discounting Roczen, Webb, and Anderson quite a bit. All have beaten Jett in SX and all haven’t given a rats ass about MX for years. Webb and Anderson have never really cared about MX on the 450. But, with Roczen and Webb in particular, I firmly believe if they poured their heart and soul in to MX like they do SX, they’d be battling with Jett. Both are far superior riders to AP and we saw that AP could hold his own. Especially Kenny, he is an all time great outdoors despite what the stats say, and AP is nowhere near his level.

I dont think you give Anderson enough credit for how good he was in mx but nobody really does. He might not care as much now...

I dont think you give Anderson enough credit for how good he was in mx but nobody really does. He might not care as much now but he was a great outdoor rider. He was just unfortunate to race prime Eli Tomac, Roczen, and Marv was no slouch. In '22 when Chase and Eli were pushing each other to insane levels of speed, Anderson was the best of the rest a lot of times. 

Fair enough. I forgot about Ando in ‘22. I just rewatched Washougal ‘22 on YouTube and he was badass.

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ando
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7/17/2025 10:01am

Whenever one guy dominates this discussion always comes up.  One way to test the validity of this hypothesis is to ask yourself what would things look like if Jett wasn’t there?

Cooper Webb would be a four time SX champ and considered among the all time SX greats.   Chase maybe has another outdoor title and is still on the all powerful Honda team.  Tomac has come back and still in the title hunt.  Hunter has multiple race wins, maybe another outdoor 250 title and on his way to greatness.  Roczen is 2023 SMX champ.  Justin Cooper has a 250 title and made a strong transition to 450 with multiple moto wins and knocking on the door for overalls.

There would be ongoing discussion about the depth of the field and how the older champions are still at the top of their game and battling it out with the newer guys.

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PRM31
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7/17/2025 10:10am

RC is the only guy in the chat of talents compared to Jett. For Jett to beat RC for 'all time' records he will need to stay healthy which is not a given. I did not think RC's win totals would ever be touched, I now have little doubt Jett can exceed it if he stays reasonably healthy and chooses to keep going long enough.

We need a video overlay showing riders pace around the track. I'd like to see where he is faster. He is so smooth you sure can't tell by watching him.

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bolychop
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7/17/2025 3:20pm
SLAPAHO wrote:
Age out rule for the 250 class would be a good thing. Not for everyone, but for the majority and for the new fast kids coming...

Age out rule for the 250 class would be a good thing. Not for everyone, but for the majority and for the new fast kids coming up with no teams to sign with...IMO

xBoom169 wrote:
i dont disagree. as much as i loved seeing some older guys win a title craig, hampshire etc. i think it would be a better thing...

i dont disagree. as much as i loved seeing some older guys win a title craig, hampshire etc. i think it would be a better thing for the younger generation coming in to learn and build. Not race against guys who should of moved up years ago.

SLAPAHO wrote:
Glad to see your comment. I deleted my post because I'm trying to stay out of the petty arguments that are non stop on this board. But...

Glad to see your comment.

 I deleted my post because I'm trying to stay out of the petty arguments that are non stop on this board. But, it's true, too many guys stay in the 250 class simply because they can and because they can get paid for it. Can't blame them one bit. Anyone would do he same.  Ageing out rule would bring new guys in both classes... and make both more competitive.  IMO 🤷‍♂️

 

I totally agree,dude. I got flamed for bringing that up in a different thread the other day. It’s a completely valid point. Don’t let these guys race 250s forever. 

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7/17/2025 6:11pm
PRM31 wrote:
RC is the only guy in the chat of talents compared to Jett. For Jett to beat RC for 'all time' records he will need to...

RC is the only guy in the chat of talents compared to Jett. For Jett to beat RC for 'all time' records he will need to stay healthy which is not a given. I did not think RC's win totals would ever be touched, I now have little doubt Jett can exceed it if he stays reasonably healthy and chooses to keep going long enough.

We need a video overlay showing riders pace around the track. I'd like to see where he is faster. He is so smooth you sure can't tell by watching him.

Don’t do Stew like that. If you are speaking on talent, Stew had more than RC. Likely more than anyone in the history of the sport. Jett is not jumping the wall jump at ‘11 Daytona in his lifetime. No one is.

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motomike137
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7/18/2025 11:41am

Jett is Ronny Lechien without the vices holding him back Wink

MOTO13 wrote:
From my memory...Lechien hated practicing and testing. Sometimes he'd show and sometimes he wouldn't. He was basically...have my bike ready on race day...I'll race, then I'll...

From my memory...Lechien hated practicing and testing. Sometimes he'd show and sometimes he wouldn't. He was basically...have my bike ready on race day...I'll race, then I'll leave. 

I remember one of his teammates at Honda telling a funny story about him. They were at the test rack that was evidently right next to the highway one day and Ron says that he isn't feeling well and headed home. Not too long after that Ronnie goes by on the highway pulling his new ski boat and honking his horn lol!

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motomike137
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7/18/2025 11:45am
PRM31 wrote:
RC is the only guy in the chat of talents compared to Jett. For Jett to beat RC for 'all time' records he will need to...

RC is the only guy in the chat of talents compared to Jett. For Jett to beat RC for 'all time' records he will need to stay healthy which is not a given. I did not think RC's win totals would ever be touched, I now have little doubt Jett can exceed it if he stays reasonably healthy and chooses to keep going long enough.

We need a video overlay showing riders pace around the track. I'd like to see where he is faster. He is so smooth you sure can't tell by watching him.

Don’t do Stew like that. If you are speaking on talent, Stew had more than RC. Likely more than anyone in the history of the sport...

Don’t do Stew like that. If you are speaking on talent, Stew had more than RC. Likely more than anyone in the history of the sport. Jett is not jumping the wall jump at ‘11 Daytona in his lifetime. No one is.

James only new one way to ride and we loved him for it. Jett seems to understand all he has to do is finish ahead of the second place guy. Jett also possesses the ability to put his head down and come back from damn near anywhere in the pack. It is amazing. Id love to see Jett and RC face off in outdoors and Jett face off with James indoors.

1
7/18/2025 4:07pm
PRM31 wrote:
RC is the only guy in the chat of talents compared to Jett. For Jett to beat RC for 'all time' records he will need to...

RC is the only guy in the chat of talents compared to Jett. For Jett to beat RC for 'all time' records he will need to stay healthy which is not a given. I did not think RC's win totals would ever be touched, I now have little doubt Jett can exceed it if he stays reasonably healthy and chooses to keep going long enough.

We need a video overlay showing riders pace around the track. I'd like to see where he is faster. He is so smooth you sure can't tell by watching him.

Don’t do Stew like that. If you are speaking on talent, Stew had more than RC. Likely more than anyone in the history of the sport...

Don’t do Stew like that. If you are speaking on talent, Stew had more than RC. Likely more than anyone in the history of the sport. Jett is not jumping the wall jump at ‘11 Daytona in his lifetime. No one is.

James only new one way to ride and we loved him for it. Jett seems to understand all he has to do is finish ahead of...

James only new one way to ride and we loved him for it. Jett seems to understand all he has to do is finish ahead of the second place guy. Jett also possesses the ability to put his head down and come back from damn near anywhere in the pack. It is amazing. Id love to see Jett and RC face off in outdoors and Jett face off with James indoors.

Jett is a more complete package than James. As were others like Dungey and RV. But, Jett would never touch James indoors, and that’s not even worth discussing. Prime RV, Reed, Dungey, and RC couldn’t touch peak James indoors in heads up racing. It’s clear that Jett’s specialty is outdoors. And I do think you’ll get what you are looking for outdoors, or at least some consolation, because Deegs and Jett has the potential to be the greatest rivalry the sport has ever seen and it’s going to go on for a long time.

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7/19/2025 12:00am

Deegan's far, far away from Jett as far as technique and precision go... OK, he's got grit, but whenever he's under pressure, he still makes A LOT of mistakes... 

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7/19/2025 12:55am

This will go well. 

I once suggested that McGrath was given a gift when he entered the premier class- facing just one former champion (Stanton) who was well in to the twilight of his career. 

But no, that conversation didn’t go well either.😂

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7/24/2025 12:28pm Edited Date/Time 7/24/2025 12:30pm
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Don’t do Stew like that. If you are speaking on talent, Stew had more than RC. Likely more than anyone in the history of the sport...

Don’t do Stew like that. If you are speaking on talent, Stew had more than RC. Likely more than anyone in the history of the sport. Jett is not jumping the wall jump at ‘11 Daytona in his lifetime. No one is.

I actually love that thought, it’s seriously hard to think of any other rider in history who would try that line at Daytona, even Ricky would probably draw the line in the sand. Maybe JMB would pick up on that and make it look easy but that’s seriously one of the only names that comes to mind

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7/24/2025 4:15pm
Don’t do Stew like that. If you are speaking on talent, Stew had more than RC. Likely more than anyone in the history of the sport...

Don’t do Stew like that. If you are speaking on talent, Stew had more than RC. Likely more than anyone in the history of the sport. Jett is not jumping the wall jump at ‘11 Daytona in his lifetime. No one is.

I actually love that thought, it’s seriously hard to think of any other rider in history who would try that line at Daytona, even Ricky would...

I actually love that thought, it’s seriously hard to think of any other rider in history who would try that line at Daytona, even Ricky would probably draw the line in the sand. Maybe JMB would pick up on that and make it look easy but that’s seriously one of the only names that comes to mind

James was/still is awesome, but that jump was sketchy and he paid the price for it. James could do ridiculous things on a bike and must have had massive balls but sometimes that bit him from a championship point of view.

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Hasletjoe
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Overall talent is completely different that overall results. I think Cooper Webb has maximized his results with the talent he has. Race Craft (I hate that term) has allowed him to be overly competitive in SX. Just about all these guys have speed, it is what they do with it that we see. RC also maximized his results along with upped his game continually as new opponents arrived. Be interesting to see how Deegan measures up when he gets on a 450. Great to be able to see this on video. 

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plowboy
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7/24/2025 5:41pm
CASH476 wrote:
James was/still is awesome, but that jump was sketchy and he paid the price for it. James could do ridiculous things on a bike and must...

James was/still is awesome, but that jump was sketchy and he paid the price for it. James could do ridiculous things on a bike and must have had massive balls but sometimes that bit him from a championship point of view.

"Tuck the front, son".  James didn't pull that outta nowhere.  How may times did we see him throw it away by doing just that.  That's the price for the insane speed and things he could do on a bike.  If he could stay on two wheels...he was gonna win.  

Jett is a new, better Stewart.

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7/24/2025 10:52pm
xBoom169 wrote:
Do you think Jett’s outdoor dominance is a perfect storm of older riders on the way out and the lack of new talent in the class...


Do you think Jett’s outdoor dominance is a perfect storm of older riders on the way out and the lack of new talent in the class ? Not to take away from Jett. He’s amazing. But only “younger “ guys right now are Hunter, Chase, & Justin. Tomac, Anderson, Webb, Roczen, etc are all near the end of their careers. Just a thought and a topic for discussion.

I agree with this to a point, it’s the perfect storm in name only. Outside of Sexton and Hunter everyone of those guys is past there prime or not on Jett’s level anyways. 
 

That being said he is the undisputed best rider in the world and it’s scary to think of what he’s gonna do in a few years. There is a serious gap in talent if one or two guys don’t work out. As long as Jett stays healthy he should past at least 100 combined wins without breaking a sweat. 

ando
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7/24/2025 10:57pm
xBoom169 wrote:
Do you think Jett’s outdoor dominance is a perfect storm of older riders on the way out and the lack of new talent in the class...


Do you think Jett’s outdoor dominance is a perfect storm of older riders on the way out and the lack of new talent in the class ? Not to take away from Jett. He’s amazing. But only “younger “ guys right now are Hunter, Chase, & Justin. Tomac, Anderson, Webb, Roczen, etc are all near the end of their careers. Just a thought and a topic for discussion.

Park Boys wrote:
I agree with this to a point, it’s the perfect storm in name only. Outside of Sexton and Hunter everyone of those guys is past there...

I agree with this to a point, it’s the perfect storm in name only. Outside of Sexton and Hunter everyone of those guys is past there prime or not on Jett’s level anyways. 
 

That being said he is the undisputed best rider in the world and it’s scary to think of what he’s gonna do in a few years. There is a serious gap in talent if one or two guys don’t work out. As long as Jett stays healthy he should past at least 100 combined wins without breaking a sweat. 

If you include SMX races he’s already at 49 career wins.  Not yet 22 years old.

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Park Boys
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7/24/2025 11:13pm Edited Date/Time 7/24/2025 11:13pm
xBoom169 wrote:
Do you think Jett’s outdoor dominance is a perfect storm of older riders on the way out and the lack of new talent in the class...


Do you think Jett’s outdoor dominance is a perfect storm of older riders on the way out and the lack of new talent in the class ? Not to take away from Jett. He’s amazing. But only “younger “ guys right now are Hunter, Chase, & Justin. Tomac, Anderson, Webb, Roczen, etc are all near the end of their careers. Just a thought and a topic for discussion.

Park Boys wrote:
I agree with this to a point, it’s the perfect storm in name only. Outside of Sexton and Hunter everyone of those guys is past there...

I agree with this to a point, it’s the perfect storm in name only. Outside of Sexton and Hunter everyone of those guys is past there prime or not on Jett’s level anyways. 
 

That being said he is the undisputed best rider in the world and it’s scary to think of what he’s gonna do in a few years. There is a serious gap in talent if one or two guys don’t work out. As long as Jett stays healthy he should past at least 100 combined wins without breaking a sweat. 

ando wrote:

If you include SMX races he’s already at 49 career wins.  Not yet 22 years old.

Injuries have cost so many riders so many wins. Jett would probably be over 60 by now if not for injuries. You gotta stay healthy. Look at Roczen at the start of 17, he was ready to take over the sport for good and we all know what happened. Hannah and RJ were both taken out in their prime. Jett is no different he needs to stack seasons together. 

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