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I think more than US bikes, but not as exotic as, the Japanese Nationals.
Mxgp bikes are a lot more exotic than the American bikes. A lot of the “factory” bikes have production parts that appear stock but those parts are different lengths or maybe even made of a different material. The factory Honda and ktm bikes appear to be most “factory” in the pits
Do the MXGP riders go as far a a different frames for sand and for hard pack?
They tend to have different spec frames, swing arms, ect. This can be changed per track as they may have a sand set up, or hard pack set up that changes stiffness and lengths. Cases dont have to be production spec either so they may run different materials.
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MXGP factory bikes are on another level compared to the U.S. setups. These teams aren’t as restricted by production rules, so the bikes are packed with one off parts, billet engine cases, titanium subframes, sand specific swingarms, and factory KYB or WP suspension that’s hand-built in Europe with internals we’ll never get our hands on.
In the U.S., even top factory bikes have to stick closer to production. But in GPs, teams like HRC and KTM are building bikes from the ground up , custom linkage ratios, altered engine positioning, and ECU systems with traction strategies dialed for each track. They’ll even adjust frame flex characteristics by changing weld points or using different materials depending on the surface, it’s honestly crazy……..
AMA bikes are fast, but the freedom and tech in MXGP puts them in another league.
Does MXGP have a weight limit? That would seem to be an area where they could make improvements.
I think I read that they had a weight limit a couple of years ago and that some teams had to put weights on their bikes to pass inspection.
Yes...
~218 lb would be pretty light!
There’s no restriction on what suspension can be used in the US. If KYB/WP/Showa make it, it can be used in America.
AMA 250: production-based suspension from approved list, and retail priced below $6300 forks or $2500 shock
AMA 450: no production restriction.
in what way the japanese bikes are different? I saw this post and went searching for the all japan mx (I even created a post with the full race on youtube) but just by 'looking at them" (on the video lol) I couldnt see much difference from a mxgp factory bike with all their freedom to operate. I know in Europe they have less stock parts than in america. I wonder if in japan they need any stock part at all.
I never understand Japan's economy. They are such a small island, with 'small sports', but they also basically have their own Formula 1 series ("Super Formula", the fastest racing car after a F1) and that Super GT500, where the cars are basically 'LMP1s'. Thats rad
Historically, the Japanese manufacturers have run prototype machines -- some pretty radical -- in the Japan nationals. I don't know the rules, but it is definitely less restrictive than many other series. Most recent example I can think of is that Honda ran the electric CR in Japan nationals in '23 with Canard aboard.
I’m not an expert on this but I know theyve raced the electric crf (multiple generations) in series over there, plus youll see the next generation production bikes show up over there waay in advance of the gp’s or usa. It makes sense because the majority of brands are japanese and they need somewhere to test and get data when developing the next generation bikes. Its not that japan is a special place to test just because, its because the manufacturers are located over there.
Id have to imagine its somewhat similar with car racing as honda, toyota, subaru, mazda, mitsubishi, nissan..etc are japanese brands too. Honda is one of the spec formula 1 engine suppliers so again I’m sure its a similar situation. Honda is also one of the 2 engine suppliers for indy car along with chevy. Then you have subaru heavily involved with rally car racing, the honda civic type-r involved with super gt and tour car racing. Plus you just have them creating racing inspired cars like the nsx, supra, gtr, integra, civic type-r, toyota gr…etc and those are going to be tested in japan as well. So many companies involved in all different kinds of racing on a small island and its going to get interesting.
The two previous posts answer it more eloquently than I could. They experiment with the bikes more. The rules seem much less restrictive.
Nice! I didn't know about the suspension distinction in the 250 class.
It was some time ago they ran different main frames and swingarms between sand and hard packed tracks from what i have gathered. I don't think anyone does it on the Austrian brand anymore. Subframe I know Herlings has changed to alter height of bike I guess recently. He was probably the one with the most custom bike. Renexau is on old Yamaha chassi. They went over Febvres bike recently and not that much difference from when they go over Sextons bike is US I feel like?
KTM run GET ECU so nothing anyone else can't run. Of course custom settings and maybe even software since they have used it for some time. Doubt they give Get the right to use that on another manufacturer.
Tom liked his GP bike better in early days but if I remember correctly he chose to run his AMA bike at MXoN despite having the choice to go back.
So I don't think there is that much advantage anymore in general. Herlings went to US spec bike and won on it so it's not like it's 1-2sec a lap just because you can go crazy on parts. Maybe even that you can get lost. Remember TP comment when he ride US Yamaha factory bike to try and help them "what the hell have you done" 😄
Maybe one advantage is that they can run next gen bikes as soon as they feel it's reliable.
Ya, I should have specified the premier class..
Pit Row
Yes, KTM has three to choose from.
It was specified in the thread title..."MXGP"
That bike gives me “Pepsi” vibes lol
My question is why do they run these prototype bikes??
Do the factories like to do it for research and development??
Like it doesn't make for better racing and 99% of people couldnt tell the difference between it and an AMA bike. The cost difference though would be extraordinary.
The performance probably isn't really that much higher either, dirtbikes aren't MotoGP bikes or formula 1 cars. The rider still makes just about all the difference and the parts an AMA bike can get is still probably fast enough for nearly every rider to be able to handle.
I think it would be so easy to get lost with settings with the freedom of it all. At least AMA your bike isn't a million miles away from stock and there is only so much you can do.
I love prototype and proper factory stuff, but i done really get it when it comes to MXGP.
Hopefully that made some sense.
An 88kg 125 seems light, but that’s what the KTMs were with a carby. So with Ti bolts etc, the factory would have to add weight.
There’s a few people on here who can answer this question better than I can, but to my knowledge, the bikes in the Japanese Nationals are mostly pre-pre-production machines (think production parts in 3-5 years). They’re some badass motorcycles, but they’re definitely not the one-off hand built bikes like we had in the ‘80s.
Yes, you’re right.
Start a discussion about MXGP bikes and suddenly people are including MX2 bikes.
I think people in America just consider anything in Europe to be ‘MXGP’.
The name of the series is MXGP so I dont think its that obvious.
If you would adress all bikes in MXGP series, you would write MXGP bikes.
Ah… you’re one of the forum’s ‘arguers’
Ok mate. Whatever you say.👌✌️
Says the guy who literally started it all by marking words 😂
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