Good discussion in the practice thread about track prep. Seems like when they expect rain they don’t rip it as deep and it allows more lines to form. If it doesn’t rain, it doesn’t seem to get anymore dusty than a regular race weekend. Can one of the journalist ask the powers that be why we need to rip it so deep? What are the pluses to that besides more ruts, that I know some say separate the men from the boys?
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Deep rips hold moisture way longer, esp when you go deep and water heavy the night before. Then you have a chance of not being in a dust bowl by the end of race day. Remember a few years ago when Hangtown was a concrete freeway, and 3 years ago when Washougal didn’t go deep? They were super fast all day and a mess of dust at the end. I know I have prepped my track both ways many times and everyone prefers deep. Better ruts, more traction, rides well for longer. Shallow end up too dry too fast and all marbles outside the main line(s). And once shallow goes away you can’t put water on it or it becomes ice. It does depend on the soil composition a good bit too but in general this is what I’ve seen over years of track work.
I think it's a safety thing? Ripping it deep slows it down and makes it more technical.
I get that but it’s not like a local race that has bikes out there all day. Would thing a shallower rip could still keep the moisture in while preventing slot car type racing. And a little dust isn’t a bad thing..
They have been prepping way too deep so they don’t have to touch it through the day. Cut about half as deep and hit sections during the day.
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I can see it slowing it a little but it also adds danger for cross rutting and hanging your foot on the ruts causing knee injuries
RC agrees
It held up pretty well. What were temps at the track? They laid down enuff water to keep the dust away but didn’t overwater between motos. Good job track crew.
I have prepped national track (have held 4 nationals). Dirtbike tires pack the ground until moisture cant come through and that will happen in all places where tires go repeatedly, independent of if you make the track having half a feet or 2 feet deep ruts.
That hard surface will occur faster the more you rip the track because riders will just go in the same places and that will limit how much water you can put on because it will be blue groove fast. There is some benefit from ha inf piles of dirt around the riding surface that holds moisture but it's kind of useless anyway.
If there is more area for riders to race on it wil be less packed and you can get more moisture in without it turning into ice.
It's normally enough to open up the surface half a feet to get moisture in. The blue groove surface is around 0.5 to 1 inch thick, under that there is moisture even if the track has been like concrete for a week or two. Best is if you open it up a feet but let it settle down a bit with the right tools, and then open up half a feet again.
And also worth mentioning is, the places that gives the worst dust is typically where you anway cant rip it deep.
Track today shows exactly how it can be done, no dust, riders using full width of track. Can water during the day because it's not packed in heavily in the race line. Good dirtmix is key.
Great synopsis. I'm just lost on how it was fine back in the two stroke days when most of these tracks had worse dirt. Now most of them have been bringing in sand and other materials for the last 15-20 years. The dirt should hold moisture just fine.
If you go back to 90-2000, tracks looked like shit compared to today. Pretty much like Pala all of them, except the sandy ones 😄
Looked at an old national from early 90 from vhs, and we wouldnt even run a practise day the way that track was. Blue groove 100% of track and dust so you wouldn't believe it. No water basically. But speed was slower, not so many big jumps so was maybe less risk overall.
4-stroke compacts the track way more also.
That’s why I would like someone to ask DC or others what the reason is. Red Bud would be so much better not ripped as deep. More than 2 250s would be jumping the leap. The one off camber in the front half always has 2’ deep ruts coming down it and every year people crash there or it’s follow the leader as the other lines all have huge hooks in them. Colorado ruts caused us to loose peak Eli and James also. Maybe if the forecast is for 100 and sun you need to get the water down deeper but for anything else let’s see some full width race tracks being used.
For sure, some of them looked terrible (High Point, Broome, Budds) Spring Creek, Red Bud, and surprisingly Hangtown looked pretty good in my opinion. That 04 Hangtown race where Bubba and Roncada battled the track looks pretty good.
I hope we see less mud ruts and more of what we saw today.
Its' going to be a scorcher all week here at Washougal, and Saturday says 91. Not sure if they will go super deep and wet, or what we saw today. I think either way it's gonna be brutal for the second motos. I think I'll stay home and watch from the couch.
I think the tracks are a mess anymore, ripped too deep and the ruts are ridiculous...
I love Red Bud but this year the track prep was terrible IMO.... ripped too deep and there is too much sand anymore.
Track looked awesome today. Good options in corners but still had the ability to move around. Red bud sucked because it was so deep. I really wish these promotors would recognize this.
Makes me wish outdoors and Supercross would switch seasons. Keeping dirt moist outdoors in June, July, and August is damn near impossible. Not to mention, getting going in Jan/Feb opens the door for some southern nationals.
Each track is different as is the soil. If you ask the riders they want it deep and rutted as most riders feel that gives the an edge. When the track is smoother everyone can go fast and makes passing much harder. Back 10-12 years ago AMA tried smoother and less deep tracks and it was not a success. The teams and riders wanted rougher tracks. Most National track builders try to give the riders what they want. Some tracks like Unadilla the soil is screen to remove the rocks as the national soil is about 90 rock, so it is screened and put back on the track.. That makes the soil soft and gets deep ruts easily, but the riders like that a lot better than riding on slippery hard rock base.
I still cant get over how deep they made Red Bud. Its gotten grief the past couple years over it and I didn't really think it was a big deal. The helmet cams vid I saw on Fridays amatuer day, I was blown away. It look 2' deep. Amateur were crashing in all the corners. I understand why the pro's bikes were blowing up
Pit Row
And yet, the top 10 is virtually the same at every track.
There ripped deep to keep the privateer with a 7k budget engine from qualifying. Perminant rider #,s beyond that it’s the same names. My bike on hard pack is quick & fast . In deep sand it’s not. Deep tracks= big power 40k + engines .
Bam agrees also
Not all…plus would it be a bad thing to have more guys closer in speed and less lappers??
Tell me how it would be racing outdoors in Michigan, Indiana, Minnesota, and Washington state in Jan-March. Next, tell me how many stadiums SX would get over baseball and/or football.
Most have never prepped a track! Dust is the enemy of good racing!! Can’t race if you can’t see!
Ruts suck!
Millville was well prepped!
Baseball starts in March so there is already overlap. Outdoors starts in May ends in August. Moving that back could easily start the first two rounds in CA like they already do at the end of February the season would end at the end of May. Football doesn't start until August and there are many venues to choose from. It's all just a talking point anyway, nothing will ever change so a moot point anyhow.
Some of you never raced at Saddleback Park and it shows… 😉
Normally when I go to a National I look at the track and think it looks terrible. But tbh when I was there yesterday the track looked really fun and perfectly prepped.
Ruts are not lines.
I know a few amateur riders that rode Red Bud Friday and they said it was downright dangerous, ripped way to deep and not worth the risk. Millville was prepped great from what I could see, that should be a standard for prep! The 2' deep ruts that grab your pegs and legs are not good for amateur or pro riders.
I am not saying we need to go back to having "blue grooves" but it is getting ridiculous IMHO...
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