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Who fed you that line of crap? Please tell.
The big # 1.
Racing budgets, far surpass the profit from the "competition dirt bike division of an OEM. No real big money to be made as far as this part of their business. The entire reason they continue to fund this part of their business is "name branding". Go to your local dealer and ask him how much he makes from the competition dirt bike sales.
#2
Some bitch and moan, about the cost of four strokes, but get a giant woody over one off two stroke machines. Please tell me where the logic is here.
The four stroke started out as a tool that leveled out the playing field. Today, it's not what it use to be in the lites class. Well funded teams like Pro Circuit, and Factory Connection, have the advantage. It's still working in the large bore class (as long as the don't change the displacement to 350cc) and is one of the best things to happen to the sport, as far as pro level racing. No one is out motored.
#3
This is where some of you will get pissed.
You mention that Steve linked you to fans of NFL football or NASCAR fans. Reality is that those of us that are weekend warriors, are no more than fat ass, beer drinking flag football players. Or some clown that buys a chevy monte carlo and puts a big # 3 on the rear windshield. Get the hell over it guys, and take a look above at #1. Again, if you think I am full of shit, ask your local dealer what they make on competition dirt bike sales.
#4
The weekend warrior may be the sport, when it comes to things like gear, pipes and other after market products. Don't get to excited about that, because they are not driving the market. They are just making what they can off of the sport.
#5
Don't go all LB on Steve, because he doesn't tell you what you want to hear. Although I don't always agree with Steve, he has a very good understanding of our sport. A much better understanding than most on this board.
Please don't take offence, but reality isn't always pretty. Just be happy that you can be some what involved in the sport that you love.
The problem is that he thinks that I should want to hear what he has to say, and take it as insider gospel.
I don't need him to tell me anything. Not with his huge ego.
He emailed/texted/called you and said that?
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
do they make a 300cc version?
hehe
Big egos are the norm in this sport or business.
We all have our icons. I fully understand that Matthes is not your icon, or mine as far as that goes. But that doesn't mean that what he said was incorrect or wrong
It's my understanding that manufacturers of motorcycles can not sell new two strokes in the state of California. I understood that it was grand-fathered for the sale of older bikes, but new ones couldn't be sold due to environmental regulations.
Again, it's been a few years since the debate was had, but I'm pretty sure what I just summarized was what happened.
I do distinctly remember the stories about new two strokes being outlawed in California. Even if I can't quote sources.
Again, if I'm wrong, let me know. Where am I wrong?
There are emission standards for "green sticker" legal riding areas. The 2-strokes can't meet those standards. Oh, by the way, neither can MX 4-strokes.
Also there's a huge potential in this market if you look at the pit bike industry with all the bling crap bits one can buy for what? A little shitty CRF50 made for kids? Imagine if you had the same market for this CR125 and you could buy orange, blue or whatever plastics, rims, exhaust etc and maybe even diff design?
I know my KX250F is so much better than my previous CR125, but right now my KX250F isn't running because of four stroke issues (sure no biggie), and I wouldn't mind taking a spin on that Chinese CR125 until the KX250F parts arrive!
Instead of these crazy new companies with shit for brains creating V-twins, inverted engines, full carbon whatever, 700 cc two stroke engines or whatever and rewake old names as Benelli, Maico etc they should just be humble and build a low budget dirtbke that can sell.
I'm suggesting the average C-rider couldn't feell the diff between a Showa A-forks kit and OEM forks from early nineties. So why the hell are I watching myself and other shit heads riding around on race machines with anodized forks, titanium valves and 40 hp at 13:000 rpm when we would probably be better of with a moped. So spit out a low budget bike that looks modern for christ sake and the poor masses will return?
more at the pro level and if it is how does that affect how much you will spend to race.We race 4 strokes and so far its been affordable but at some point if it becomes to expensive
and we have to switch to 2stks we wil but we wont quit. I guess i just dont understand why if 2 strokes are so cheap to race(maintain) why are people quitting rather than racing them. And I agree with most of you there is nothing like watching a pro rip on a 125. I would love to see a shit load of them out there.
Pit Row
Reason #1 Its over. No OEM is "losing" their own money to go racing today. They are spending sponsor dollars. The reason for most of the budget cuts and why teams aren't buying championships is they are not willing to lose money to race. Period. Dirtbikes are not a losing proposition to the OEM's. They are expected to provide a ROI to the company and if the don't they are going to be eliminated.
Reason #3 WTF is "branding" for if not to sell bikes? Why do it? Do you think Yamaha races MX to sell Pianos and Guitars? ah no. Do you think the Yamaha Star buyer knows who Josh Grant is? Do you think they care?
Reason #4 The aftermarket is the market! Its creating the market and the culture. I'm sure that Fox and Alpinestars do not share your opinion of them "not driving the market".
Finally I think somewhere during those "4 years at the pro level" you lost sight of something pretty important: There would be no Pro's without the people that support this industry as fans and most importantly as consumers.
I said it before somewhere in here and will repeat it.
two strokes will out last the modern four strokes simply because people are lazy about maintaining bikes. it will cost a rider a lot more if he blows a thumper turd and they stop riding because it was all the money they had. that is why they quit.
now. will that change no.
either the people who ride will need to make more money, or four strokes will have to become more "rider maintainance friendly" or lack of.
I doubt either will happen, so where it is going to hurt is not the big pro bullshit stuff, it will kick the little guy in the nuts.
Joe blow raceway in never never land will have less riders/racers and well what that will translate to................less pro's in 5 years, less new riders in the sport. etc. etc.
want to say here comes the black (red) helicopters fine don't really care. What do know is what i see every day, and every weekend here in never never land............
Lets see how the "big" boys will handle a 30% reduction in riders like we have seen in this area...
then we all can sit back and point fingers who did what. by that time everyone will have found something else to do.
I'm suggesting the average C-rider couldn't feell the diff between a Showa A-forks kit and OEM forks from early nineties. So why the hell are I watching myself and other shit heads riding around on race machines with anodized forks, titanium valves and 40 hp at 13:000 rpm when we would probably be better of with a moped. So spit out a low budget bike that looks modern for christ sake and the poor masses will return?
X2!
Also the 4 strokes have sound requirement issues to deal with at some locations.
There are a lot of answers to your questions. People see the pro's racing four strokes and decide that they HAVE to race a four stroke to be "competitive". Also, there is a sheep mentality, and because 99% of bikes on the start grids are four stroke, riders think that they HAVE to be on a four stroke to be "competitive", or will be at a disadvantage. New riders to the sport see all their mates on four strokes, so go and buy a four stroke themselves, even if it is an old shitbox. Just cause they dont know any better. Also another factor, if they do try a two and four stroke back to back with little riding experience, the four stroke is easier to go faster on and therefore that is the bike they choose. Sad, but true.
How many "competition" dirt bike units are sold every year between the big 4?
Not as many as some of you seem to think. It's not a big money maker for anyone and it's just a part (small part) of their business. That's why today, the OEMs are having to go outside of the industry to pay for the large racing budgets of today.
As far as "Name Branding". You have no reason to take my word for it, so talk to someone in marketing about this.
Supercross is the best proof that the weekend moto enthusiast, is not a driving force of pro level racing. The majority of those filling the seats are not the people buying products related to the industry. Your standard ticket buyer is the same fan that attends things like Monster Trucks and Tractor Pulls. I don't know if it's the same now, but years ago, it was the same promoters.
I'm right there with ya.
As far as bike sales go and what dealers make off of a competition motocross bike? Well I would guess they make nothing off of a 2-3 year old 450 dust collector that finally gets rolled out at $3850.00 + tax. They're not exactly selling like hotcakes and I doubt a little boost in the economy will change that too much. But at 8-9 grand based off of parts and materials alone, I'm guessing there is quite a bit being made per 250 pound unit sitting on the floor next to 750 pounds of equally priced V-Twin cruiser or 500 pound 4 cylinder entry level crotch rocket.
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