Too bad US motocross doesn't welcome innovation

Racer92
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9/15/2010 7:45am Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 7:46am
I read the first few posts on this thread and then the last few only.

You guys who rag on Newmann are morons and Jim has done a good job of saying the same thing. I used to be surprised at just how gullible the average MX bubba is, but not anymore. As evidenced by the music industry, the average consumer today is a total fuckin' retard. Im just glad there's a few guys out there that have a clue, too bad all you sheeple wont listen to the message and quit persecuting the messenger.

" I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve......" - Ozzy Osbourne
BIGHEAD1
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9/15/2010 8:31am Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 8:35am
The stupidest thing about all this shit is YOU CAN BUY TWO STROKES RIGHT NOW AND RACE THEM! All this I can't afford racing shit is pure garbage... The only people that are affected by the high cost of racing four strokes are national privateers. That's it. Everyone else that is racing a four stroke bitching and whining about how much it costs then you have no one to blame but yourself as two strokes that are FASTER than their four stroke counterparts are sitting at dealers right now.. You have only yourself to blame.NOT DC, NOT OEMS,NOT MATTHES, NOT DOUG HENRY..YOU! If you are tired of four strokes, then buy two strokes. That is the only way there will ever be a ressurgance. If Honda sees KTM and Yamaha killing it on two stroke sales guess what will happen?
seth505
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9/15/2010 8:33am
BIGHEAD1 wrote:
The stupidest thing about all this shit is YOU CAN BUY TWO STROKES RIGHT NOW AND RACE THEM! All this I can't afford racing shit...
The stupidest thing about all this shit is YOU CAN BUY TWO STROKES RIGHT NOW AND RACE THEM! All this I can't afford racing shit is pure garbage... The only people that are affected by the high cost of racing four strokes are national privateers. That's it. Everyone else that is racing a four stroke bitching and whining about how much it costs then you have no one to blame but yourself as two strokes that are FASTER than their four stroke counterparts are sitting at dealers right now.. You have only yourself to blame.NOT DC, NOT OEMS,NOT MATTHES, NOT DOUG HENRY..YOU! If you are tired of four strokes, then buy two strokes. That is the only way there will ever be a ressurgance. If Honda sees KTM and Yamaha killing it on two stroke sales guess what will happen?
x 1billion
Gaz_b
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9/15/2010 9:46am
I'm just gonna throw this out there, I think the 450cc class should be reduced to 400cc (you know like it was at the very start), lowering to 350cc (which I don't think will ever happen) is too much.
Might even level thing out a bit for 250 2t vs 400 4t who knows, and if it didn't, well then let up to 300cc 2t against 400 4t and be done with it.

Other than that, there's definitely some interesting facts, opinions and misinformation in this thread.

The Shop

ATKpilot99
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9/15/2010 9:52am
Gaz_b wrote:
I'm just gonna throw this out there, I think the 450cc class should be reduced to 400cc (you know like it was at the very start)...
I'm just gonna throw this out there, I think the 450cc class should be reduced to 400cc (you know like it was at the very start), lowering to 350cc (which I don't think will ever happen) is too much.
Might even level thing out a bit for 250 2t vs 400 4t who knows, and if it didn't, well then let up to 300cc 2t against 400 4t and be done with it.

Other than that, there's definitely some interesting facts, opinions and misinformation in this thread.
When Yamaha first built the yz 400 the AMA limit for 4 strokes was 550cc then they lowered it to 450 . Not sure what the process was for the GPs . I do know 600cc 4 strokes started showing up in the 500 GP class in the mid 90s .
PaleBlue
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9/15/2010 10:14am
BIGHEAD1 wrote:
The stupidest thing about all this shit is YOU CAN BUY TWO STROKES RIGHT NOW AND RACE THEM! All this I can't afford racing shit...
The stupidest thing about all this shit is YOU CAN BUY TWO STROKES RIGHT NOW AND RACE THEM! All this I can't afford racing shit is pure garbage... The only people that are affected by the high cost of racing four strokes are national privateers. That's it. Everyone else that is racing a four stroke bitching and whining about how much it costs then you have no one to blame but yourself as two strokes that are FASTER than their four stroke counterparts are sitting at dealers right now.. You have only yourself to blame.NOT DC, NOT OEMS,NOT MATTHES, NOT DOUG HENRY..YOU! If you are tired of four strokes, then buy two strokes. That is the only way there will ever be a ressurgance. If Honda sees KTM and Yamaha killing it on two stroke sales guess what will happen?
At last!!! Thanx fella.
IntenseRider
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9/15/2010 10:26am
Me and my buddy are doing our part to keep the dream alive. We're buying two 2-stroke bikes tonight!

Granted, they are '92 RM 250s (which may be one of the ugliest bikes ever made)

Also, they're in boxes.

And, we're hoping that between the 2 bikes, we'll have enough parts to build one bike.

But, for $400 for 2 bikes, you can't go wrong Tongue (afterall, we need something to do in the winter)
motogrady
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9/15/2010 10:37am


Been thinkin', what if the FIM and MXSports changed the rules back to heads up racing.

125, 250, Open.

Maybe the problem isn't with the factories.
You know they're gonna go for as much as they can money wise.
But they're not gonna make a bike that's not gonna sell.
I mean, if a guy could run one of AJ's 500 CR's against the current 450 4s,
it wouldn't take long for things to change up.

Maybe it's up to the promoters.
mxrose3
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9/15/2010 10:41am
motogrady wrote:
Been thinkin', what if the FIM and MXSports changed the rules back to heads up racing. 125, 250, Open. Maybe the problem isn't with the factories...


Been thinkin', what if the FIM and MXSports changed the rules back to heads up racing.

125, 250, Open.

Maybe the problem isn't with the factories.
You know they're gonna go for as much as they can money wise.
But they're not gonna make a bike that's not gonna sell.
I mean, if a guy could run one of AJ's 500 CR's against the current 450 4s,
it wouldn't take long for things to change up.

Maybe it's up to the promoters.
damn... why didn't anybody else think of that??? Pinch
WORCSRacer
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9/15/2010 10:47am
BIGHEAD1 wrote:
The stupidest thing about all this shit is YOU CAN BUY TWO STROKES RIGHT NOW AND RACE THEM! All this I can't afford racing shit...
The stupidest thing about all this shit is YOU CAN BUY TWO STROKES RIGHT NOW AND RACE THEM! All this I can't afford racing shit is pure garbage... The only people that are affected by the high cost of racing four strokes are national privateers. That's it. Everyone else that is racing a four stroke bitching and whining about how much it costs then you have no one to blame but yourself as two strokes that are FASTER than their four stroke counterparts are sitting at dealers right now.. You have only yourself to blame.NOT DC, NOT OEMS,NOT MATTHES, NOT DOUG HENRY..YOU! If you are tired of four strokes, then buy two strokes. That is the only way there will ever be a ressurgance. If Honda sees KTM and Yamaha killing it on two stroke sales guess what will happen?
There is no place on this board for the truth and common sense. STFU.
Gaz_b
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9/15/2010 11:00am
Gaz_b wrote:
I'm just gonna throw this out there, I think the 450cc class should be reduced to 400cc (you know like it was at the very start)...
I'm just gonna throw this out there, I think the 450cc class should be reduced to 400cc (you know like it was at the very start), lowering to 350cc (which I don't think will ever happen) is too much.
Might even level thing out a bit for 250 2t vs 400 4t who knows, and if it didn't, well then let up to 300cc 2t against 400 4t and be done with it.

Other than that, there's definitely some interesting facts, opinions and misinformation in this thread.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
When Yamaha first built the yz 400 the AMA limit for 4 strokes was 550cc then they lowered it to 450 . Not sure what the...
When Yamaha first built the yz 400 the AMA limit for 4 strokes was 550cc then they lowered it to 450 . Not sure what the process was for the GPs . I do know 600cc 4 strokes started showing up in the 500 GP class in the mid 90s .
Ah yes, I'd forgot the limit was 550cc for 4t's (only 'slightly' biased towards 4-strokes lol).
Still I think the YZR400 was the right size for the class, rather than 450's.

@motogrady that's a pretty sensible and as said logical idea/solution. (gets rid of the mx1, 2 and 'lites' crap aswell)
jmar
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9/15/2010 11:06am
BIGHEAD1 wrote:
The stupidest thing about all this shit is YOU CAN BUY TWO STROKES RIGHT NOW AND RACE THEM! All this I can't afford racing shit...
The stupidest thing about all this shit is YOU CAN BUY TWO STROKES RIGHT NOW AND RACE THEM! All this I can't afford racing shit is pure garbage... The only people that are affected by the high cost of racing four strokes are national privateers. That's it. Everyone else that is racing a four stroke bitching and whining about how much it costs then you have no one to blame but yourself as two strokes that are FASTER than their four stroke counterparts are sitting at dealers right now.. You have only yourself to blame.NOT DC, NOT OEMS,NOT MATTHES, NOT DOUG HENRY..YOU! If you are tired of four strokes, then buy two strokes. That is the only way there will ever be a ressurgance. If Honda sees KTM and Yamaha killing it on two stroke sales guess what will happen?
WORCSRacer wrote:
There is no place on this board for the truth and common sense. STFU.
Yes it is very logical, and makes a lot of sense.

CamP
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9/15/2010 11:12am
The main issue with buying new two strokes is availability. They are in very short supply so the price is typically more than you can buy a equivalent thumper right now and the 2T buyer has to do a lot of leg work to actually find one.
mxrose3
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9/15/2010 11:19am
CamP wrote:
The main issue with buying new two strokes is availability. They are in very short supply so the price is typically more than you can buy...
The main issue with buying new two strokes is availability. They are in very short supply so the price is typically more than you can buy a equivalent thumper right now and the 2T buyer has to do a lot of leg work to actually find one.
Thats probably one of the reasons Joe Blow who shows up with cash in his pocket to buy a dirt bike will buy a 4 stroke instead of the 2 stroke. They aren't exactly sitting on every dealers showroom floor.
jndmx
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9/15/2010 11:21am
CamP wrote:
The main issue with buying new two strokes is availability. They are in very short supply so the price is typically more than you can buy...
The main issue with buying new two strokes is availability. They are in very short supply so the price is typically more than you can buy a equivalent thumper right now and the 2T buyer has to do a lot of leg work to actually find one.
This.....

My kid wants nothing to do with KTM or Yamaha.
He has beena Suzuki rider since he was on 65's.

Last year he rode a YZ 125 and hated it...no offense to all you folks that bleed blue...but he hated that bike.

We couldn't find a newer RM250 for under $6K when we were looking to move from the 125 last year unless it was a clapped out POS.
Even though he loves the smokers we ended up buying an 07 RMZ250 for $2K that has run great all year without issue.
WORCSRacer
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9/15/2010 11:31am
CamP wrote:
The main issue with buying new two strokes is availability. They are in very short supply so the price is typically more than you can buy...
The main issue with buying new two strokes is availability. They are in very short supply so the price is typically more than you can buy a equivalent thumper right now and the 2T buyer has to do a lot of leg work to actually find one.
jndmx wrote:
This..... My kid wants nothing to do with KTM or Yamaha. He has beena Suzuki rider since he was on 65's. Last year he rode a...
This.....

My kid wants nothing to do with KTM or Yamaha.
He has beena Suzuki rider since he was on 65's.

Last year he rode a YZ 125 and hated it...no offense to all you folks that bleed blue...but he hated that bike.

We couldn't find a newer RM250 for under $6K when we were looking to move from the 125 last year unless it was a clapped out POS.
Even though he loves the smokers we ended up buying an 07 RMZ250 for $2K that has run great all year without issue.
See you're a PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE AVAILABLE OPTIONS ARE!!! You found a bike parts are available and you have some change left over. Life is better than good no?

WTF are the two stroke folks bitching about? The bikes are out there. For example when your kid is ready I have Rodney Smith's 07 Factory RM250 ready and waiting for you to pick it up. Immaculate and trick. Just bring 50 100 dollars bills and it's yours.
9/15/2010 12:17pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 12:20pm
BIGHEAD1 wrote:
The stupidest thing about all this shit is YOU CAN BUY TWO STROKES RIGHT NOW AND RACE THEM! All this I can't afford racing shit...
The stupidest thing about all this shit is YOU CAN BUY TWO STROKES RIGHT NOW AND RACE THEM! All this I can't afford racing shit is pure garbage... The only people that are affected by the high cost of racing four strokes are national privateers. That's it. Everyone else that is racing a four stroke bitching and whining about how much it costs then you have no one to blame but yourself as two strokes that are FASTER than their four stroke counterparts are sitting at dealers right now.. You have only yourself to blame.NOT DC, NOT OEMS,NOT MATTHES, NOT DOUG HENRY..YOU! If you are tired of four strokes, then buy two strokes. That is the only way there will ever be a ressurgance. If Honda sees KTM and Yamaha killing it on two stroke sales guess what will happen?
Quoted the wrong thing.
mxb2
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9/15/2010 12:21pm
CamP wrote:
The main issue with buying new two strokes is availability. They are in very short supply so the price is typically more than you can buy...
The main issue with buying new two strokes is availability. They are in very short supply so the price is typically more than you can buy a equivalent thumper right now and the 2T buyer has to do a lot of leg work to actually find one.
jndmx wrote:
This..... My kid wants nothing to do with KTM or Yamaha. He has beena Suzuki rider since he was on 65's. Last year he rode a...
This.....

My kid wants nothing to do with KTM or Yamaha.
He has beena Suzuki rider since he was on 65's.

Last year he rode a YZ 125 and hated it...no offense to all you folks that bleed blue...but he hated that bike.

We couldn't find a newer RM250 for under $6K when we were looking to move from the 125 last year unless it was a clapped out POS.
Even though he loves the smokers we ended up buying an 07 RMZ250 for $2K that has run great all year without issue.
WORCSRacer wrote:
See you're a PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE AVAILABLE OPTIONS ARE!!! You found a bike parts are available and you have some change left over. Life...
See you're a PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE AVAILABLE OPTIONS ARE!!! You found a bike parts are available and you have some change left over. Life is better than good no?

WTF are the two stroke folks bitching about? The bikes are out there. For example when your kid is ready I have Rodney Smith's 07 Factory RM250 ready and waiting for you to pick it up. Immaculate and trick. Just bring 50 100 dollars bills and it's yours.
You have any piks of the rm? Im interested! And Im a 2stroke and 4 stroke fan Both great bikes!
Racer92
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9/15/2010 12:22pm
Quoted the wrong thing.
Sssssh, let 'em keep going, I like hearing how superior farm tractors are. Laughing
peelout719
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9/15/2010 12:26pm
when i started riding 125's (yes 125's not 2fifturds) in 1999 i didn't care for them, they were hard to ride coming off railing my 80's. but i rode it for a year and got super fast on it. when i eventually got a 250 (again, a real 250 not a 2fifturd) i was killing all the stroker turds. everyone was getting turds and i was sticking to my 125's and 250's. i eventually gave in and i've never been hurt more in my life than when owning a turd.

times are different now. the 4fifturds and 2fifturds have 5 more years of development. impossible to RACE a 125 or 250 even at a local pro level anymore.

i'm buying a new KTM or YZ 250 next year and i'll never own another turd stroke.

and the reason 4fifturds and 2fifturds are the norm is because of all the fucking sheeple that gave into getting raped in the ass by the manufacturers and the ama.

turds.

newmann
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9/15/2010 12:28pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 12:30pm
Quoted the wrong thing.
Then I'll save my reply for later.
newmann
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9/15/2010 12:58pm
Quoted the wrong thing.
newmann wrote:
Then I'll save my reply for later.
It was in defense of two strokes but I must have got mixed up. My topic had nothing to do with the quote. Blink
But you made sense from the standpoint of a customer with real valid issues.
BLAHBLAH
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9/15/2010 1:02pm
I wish Guy B would make a Forum that is dedicated to 2 stroke die hards... That way all of the folks on this board who continue to bring up the same subject over and over would have a place to talk about how cool smokers are and shitty fart box 4 strokes are, and I weed throguh all these posts.

The truth of the matter is half of the people if not more, that are arguing day in and day out for the 2 strokes.are part of the reason they are no longer relevant in professional Motocross. If you in the last decade went to your motorcycle dealership and purchased a 4 stroke its your fault. For a very long time untill like 2006 every OEM was still offering a 2 stroke. The dealerships would then sit on those 2 strokes until the end of the year when they would clearence them out and try to get rid of them.

The public chose 4 strokes not the OEM's. If you are a die hard 2 stroke fan great, but don't force your minority view on the mass population who loves 4 stroke racing.
9/15/2010 1:22pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 1:39pm
newmann wrote:
Then I'll save my reply for later.
It was in defense of two strokes but I must have got mixed up. My topic had nothing to do with the quote. Blink
newmann wrote:
But you made sense from the standpoint of a customer with real valid issues.
I know I did. I'm buying a 250 two stroker as soon as I get the money to rebuild that 250f that's been in my garage for over a year with a blown up top end. Selling it to buy an 06 KX250. Who knows, maybe in two years when I'm out of college I will get a 4 stroke again. Maybe I will be happy without it. I'll be closer to 30 than 20 at that point. I'm never going to take Over
25/30/35/40 expert as serious as I did Intermediate all those years ago.
4mxonly
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9/15/2010 1:40pm Edited Date/Time 9/15/2010 1:41pm
BLAHBLAH wrote:
I wish Guy B would make a Forum that is dedicated to 2 stroke die hards... That way all of the folks on this board who...
I wish Guy B would make a Forum that is dedicated to 2 stroke die hards... That way all of the folks on this board who continue to bring up the same subject over and over would have a place to talk about how cool smokers are and shitty fart box 4 strokes are, and I weed throguh all these posts.

The truth of the matter is half of the people if not more, that are arguing day in and day out for the 2 strokes.are part of the reason they are no longer relevant in professional Motocross. If you in the last decade went to your motorcycle dealership and purchased a 4 stroke its your fault. For a very long time untill like 2006 every OEM was still offering a 2 stroke. The dealerships would then sit on those 2 strokes until the end of the year when they would clearence them out and try to get rid of them.

The public chose 4 strokes not the OEM's. If you are a die hard 2 stroke fan great, but don't force your minority view on the mass population who loves 4 stroke racing.
I find it funny how people get so caught up in this argument that you start pointing fingers at who is "at fault". Give me a break. There is no single reason why the 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke dilemma has reached this point, and just because someone bought a 4-stroke doesn't mean it's their "fault". Hindsight is 20-20. Remember the pet rock? It was a rock in a box for christ sakes, but they sold millions of them in a matter of months back in the mid-70s. How many people do you think looked back on that a few years later and thought "why the hell did I buy a pet rock?" It was part of a movement, a moment in time where buying a pet rock made sense to people (for whatever reason).
BLAHBLAH
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9/15/2010 1:50pm
BLAHBLAH wrote:
I wish Guy B would make a Forum that is dedicated to 2 stroke die hards... That way all of the folks on this board who...
I wish Guy B would make a Forum that is dedicated to 2 stroke die hards... That way all of the folks on this board who continue to bring up the same subject over and over would have a place to talk about how cool smokers are and shitty fart box 4 strokes are, and I weed throguh all these posts.

The truth of the matter is half of the people if not more, that are arguing day in and day out for the 2 strokes.are part of the reason they are no longer relevant in professional Motocross. If you in the last decade went to your motorcycle dealership and purchased a 4 stroke its your fault. For a very long time untill like 2006 every OEM was still offering a 2 stroke. The dealerships would then sit on those 2 strokes until the end of the year when they would clearence them out and try to get rid of them.

The public chose 4 strokes not the OEM's. If you are a die hard 2 stroke fan great, but don't force your minority view on the mass population who loves 4 stroke racing.
4mxonly wrote:
I find it funny how people get so caught up in this argument that you start pointing fingers at who is "at fault". Give me a...
I find it funny how people get so caught up in this argument that you start pointing fingers at who is "at fault". Give me a break. There is no single reason why the 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke dilemma has reached this point, and just because someone bought a 4-stroke doesn't mean it's their "fault". Hindsight is 20-20. Remember the pet rock? It was a rock in a box for christ sakes, but they sold millions of them in a matter of months back in the mid-70s. How many people do you think looked back on that a few years later and thought "why the hell did I buy a pet rock?" It was part of a movement, a moment in time where buying a pet rock made sense to people (for whatever reason).
Holy Fuck... you compared dirt bikes to pet rocks... The difference being after the people bought the new version of the pet rock, they didn't spend hours each week on an internet chat room proclaiming how much better the first version of the pet rock was.

Anyone who chose to buy a 4stroke instead of a 2 stroke to take to the track is indeed at fault, no ifs ands or buts. If you regret your decision fine, but learn to live with it.
peelout719
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9/15/2010 1:56pm
BLAHBLAH wrote:
Holy Fuck... you compared dirt bikes to pet rocks... The difference being after the people bought the new version of the pet rock, they didn't spend...
Holy Fuck... you compared dirt bikes to pet rocks... The difference being after the people bought the new version of the pet rock, they didn't spend hours each week on an internet chat room proclaiming how much better the first version of the pet rock was.

Anyone who chose to buy a 4stroke instead of a 2 stroke to take to the track is indeed at fault, no ifs ands or buts. If you regret your decision fine, but learn to live with it.
face it.

we the consumer didn't decide the outcome, the manufacturers and ama did years ago. they made the turd with double the cc's and pushed it to the masses and discontinued any development for 2-strokes.

whether the bikes sold or not, the decision was already made that the turd was the way of the almighty dollar.

this industry and the japanese manufacturers are so fucking greedy it's ridiculous.
mxrose3
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9/15/2010 2:00pm
Peelout hit the nail on the head.

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