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The kids would be doing crazier shit today on the old bikes too if they were still available. Skateboards haven’t changed in a quarter century but we have 9-10 year olds today saying “when it’s scary tricks I just go for it”. Tricks that lots of pros didn’t do 20 years ago because they were literally too scared. Same as the guys doing freestyle moto. Some guys bowed out of the sport because they didn’t want to keep up with backflips even though they all had access to the same quality of bikes…
It’s progression there is no stopping it especially with social media where you can see what is possible and have a frame work to push from. Kids see what the pros do and think that’s the norm so that’s their baseline. It will only get “worse” and that’s ok because people like to push limits. Trying to pull back progression because of injuries is fuckin stupid, you guys sound like Big Government trying to protect people from themselves which all of you claim to hate 🥲
https://youtu.be/uyvD7HrVat8?feature=shared
Tracks seem to just be wide open now, Cahuilla especially, 450’s are too fast and tons of people don’t have the strength or even skill anymore to handle them when things go bad. Like I’ve said before, plenty of people at the track doing things/jumps they wouldn’t be doing if they were on two strokes. Tracks need to be slowed down
Yea , I was there yesterday, it was horrible. After they close the vet track for one hr , I left.
I think I've seen 3. Something that bothers but I'm not sure contributes, is really fast guys on vet tracks. Some fast guy yelled at me in a corner and I'm thinking, "if you're such hot shit, why aren't you on the main?". Track refreshes at State Fair and Pala usually had steep jump faces with lips. I heard Ping and I think Troy Lee on Whiskey Throttle talking about injuries and that now vet tracks were getting riskier.
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Yes and the long term affect is that tracks are not building skills in new riders, just making them have a false confidence and as soon as something goes wrong it looks like they hit a land mine. I remember being a kid and really having to calculate wether or not I was about to bust my ass trying a new jump. I ride at a well known private track that still has real jumps and I see it all the time when new guys come in and have a serious reality check on their skill levels and are sketched out on almost every every jump, and on the flip side I’ve seen those same guys improve rapidly over a couple weekends.
Unpopular opinion incoming .
Bikes FAR exceed the rider's skill levels and make them think they have skills they don't. They are too easy to go fast on. Very few riders actually take any sort of riding classes to improve their skills and when you couple that with a lack of knowledge of track etiquette it's a bad mix. The same testosterone that fueled noobs buying YZF-R1s for the street makes them buy a YZ450 for the dirt. They walk right by the beginner bikes and head straight for something that will hurt them.
Throw in the influence of SX on outdoor tracks and that same testosterone tells them they can do all the jumps all the time. The degree of injuries and number of deaths I see in the sport today is appalling. I have a much wider view of the sport than most that dates back to the early 70's when there were an incredible number of bikes being sold, tracks everywhere, and the sport was REALLY booming. It was rare for an ambulance to ever leave the track on a race day and until Jim West died in 1974 (from an injury that was misdiagnosed at the ER) you never heard of any fatalities in motocross.
It disturbs me greatly that the sport has come to this point. There are so many great things about motocross. I fear if there aren't changes to make the sport safer (notice I didn't say SAFE) that it will continue this spiral until there are no tracks. All it will take is a rogue legislator fueled by a lobbyist to bring an end all tracks or make them so expensive that no one can afford a track day. We need to police our sport before its gone.
Exactly, you can put all the riders on mo-ped’s with flat tires and the best and fastest guys will still figure out to get every ounce of speed out of it and then some. People are competitive and will figure it out no matter the constraint.
Look at drag racing. Quite a long while ago they reduced the track length from 1/4 mile, the standard since the beginning because the cars were getting too fast. Then look, the all time speed record was just recently set surpassing the previous 1/4 mile speed lol!
Look at powerboat top speed shootout, specifically the one at lake of the Ozarks. About a decade ago a boat called Spirit Of Qatar set the record at 244mph on the 1 mile course. They said it was unsafe so they shortened the track. This past year they went j believe 221mph. So I am assuming they will get there too, like the drag racing.
Moral of the story is, the riders themselves CHOOSE to make it unsafe by pushing every limit possible to beat their competitor. Can some things be done on some tracks, of course! But it will still remain unsafe.
But to ML’s post, man I can’t imagine seeing that much in one day! I’d have packed it up and left.
Longer, smoother, wider jump approaches make tracks safer because they lead to less acceleration bumps going into jumps - it's smoother and more predictable lines on the approach, same with the jump faces - any jump situation where a rider can build speed into the jump is safer than requiring a rider to be hard on the gas going into the jump and through the jump. Riders have a choice on what speed to hit stuff at. Having more "technical" steeper jump faces out of turns makes tracks less safe because less experienced riders can't safely build speed into them. They accelerate hard out of the turn, usually sitting down, and try to seat bounce and the jump approached get nasty acceleration bumps which unsettle the bikes on the jump approach or the jumps develop kickers from everyone accelerating on the jump face. Same thing with the landings - if more technical requiring hard acceleration on landings to make the next obstacle, you get pot holes on the landings from guys landing with the throttle on hard. Smoother is safer when the track design is right. Thinking that steeper more technical jumps will make a track safer is ridiculous. That's like saying Supercross is safer than Motocross (it's not). If you want to "slow a track down" to be safer, add more TURNS and don't make the jumps so big, along with BIG gradual landings (not postage stamp landings). Thing is (especially out west), more turns requires more track prep (fuel and time) and more water. Jumps properly built (the ones that don't get acceleration bumps and nasty kickers on them) don't require as much water or fuel to rework them between ride days.
How crowded is Cahuilla on Wednesdays? Thinking of going this week for the first time in years. Slow vet track guy.
Last Wednesday was not bad, just get there early or struggle to park up top.
Most riders clear out by noon. So 12-2 is good if you need to learn the tracks. Another option on Wednesdays is the Perris vet track, very rider friendly, it’s mostly a turn track with some very small jumps
Thanks!
Our entry level bikes back in the day were 100 and 125,s, same power of a 85 nowdsys.
We learnt skills, and if we were improved, we moved up to 250cc, probably as fast as a modern 125cc.
Am I the only one who thinks fox needs practice sessions, or at least split up minis and big bikes?
they started splitting practices two weeks ago after Prado almost ran over a kid.
Who knows if they will keep the format after the national.
Tracks too hard, people complain. If the tracks too easy, people complain. If the bikes sitting on the stand by itself at the tracks, it’s not going to hurt anyone. Maybe it’s the rider making bad choices or not baking it down 85% of the time? The other 15% maybe comes down to bike failure or hitting a kicker on accident? Anytime I had a bad crash, I know I was pushing it and not just trying to cruise.
I remember a few years ago at a local series meet they had to call the race meet off as the hospital couldn't handle any more patients, I think there was close to 10 mx riders in there
2003 Avalon I flew down to Melbourne to help a mate out racing at the Speedway - If emeory serves me correct Boydy and Hoges designed the track and were CDR Yamaha YZ250 and Troy Carrol was on CDR YZF250 along with Daniel McCoy (both raced in USE at some time) - it was the wildest Supercross track I have ever seen massive dragon back to double big step on step off and the one section was a left hander hip double Troy Carroll was hitting in second grabbing two gears and holding it wide open to a 130ft triple and it was a booter man.
They even painted the massive upramp up the middle big white line and held at riders meeting that is your not doing the triple stay to the left of the white line..
Some broken wrist were had that day and allot of crashes - lets juts say Ambulance was non stop.
About 22 came to ER last night. 10 were just drunks alone. Lol jk
While at the tracks near me I don't really see a whole lot. Good thing I suppose.. but the tracks out here get way more volume it seems
Pit Row
Oh that had to be gut wrenching for you and devastating for the father.
I highly disagree, and I think the data backs me up on this. I don't think anyone can argue that tracks haven't gone more and more in the direction you're describing, yet the rate of serious injury seems to be going higher and higher year after year. Like I said before, if this well intentioned experiment was working we wouldn't have a thread like this every week.
The things you're describing are exactly what keep less experienced riders from hitting jumps they aren't ready for yet, and now people have become so accustomed to these mellow approaches and lips that the second anything technical gets put in a track they have no idea what to do and you have carnage everywhere. I'd much rather have a lot of technical 2-3 gear sections on a track than be in 4th gear for 50% of it, maybe I'm getting old but the high speed bomb runs just don't do it for me anymore. Technical doesn't necessarily have to mean steep jumps, throw some switchbacks with berms or some decent sized rollers in the track every now and then if you want, something that makes you think a little bit and isn't just who can hold the throttle to the stops the longest.
In 2001 or 2002 at the Avalon supercross, near Melbourne Australia, there were 17 people taken to hospital.
And this was the reason Australia brought in a specific SX race licence. Before this time anyone with a national motocross licence could enter and race supercross.
An accredited coach would have to watch you ride a SX track and approve you.
Lake Sugar Tree national in 1990 or '91. It was so hot and humid they stayed running hauling spectators to the hospital. I have no idea how many trips they made.
100%
Midwest racer here. I can’t recall the last time I’ve seen a helicopter. Well over a decade. And more than one ambulance ride in a day is a bad day. Most of the time we see none.
Cahuilla is my favorite track and usually I'd say its relatively tame layout. But nowadays there are too many people, the track prep/dirt just can't handle it, especially on the vet track. Once the lips get chewed up its carnage city for the vet riders. That one step up double in the middle of the track seems to take people out left and right, people either over clear it and land in the breaking bumps or case it and bounce, either way they end up whisky throttling over the berm. Maybe they could make the lip steeper so people don't have to be going so fast to clear it or maybe do a mid day prep of the lips it would keep the less experienced guys from wadding.
Also, since the vet track is so crowded a lot of guys end up going over to the main, which imo is pretty tame, but then just become dangerous for the fast guys.
Yep, I'm a YZ250 lifer as well coming from 350s.
Biggest issue is Ambulances going to hospital and not being able to offload due to ' improvements in the NHS'
Only one red flag yesterday, not sure what occurred , but a marshall was clipped , and they had to call the race to get to them, but they were ok, i dont they even left the track .
IMO, rider safety comes down to three things - confidence, fitness and talent.
I'm not sure anyone should be blaming motocross tracks or high performance bikes for injuries.
If you went snow skiing using high performance long skis, and got injured while trying to do a double diamond ski slope, is it the fault of the skis or the mountain, or is it your fault for not having the skills or fitness required for the task at hand ?
I don't hear any complaints from skiers about making skis slower or ski hills easier.
All you guys complaining that Moto is too extreme always have the option of Vintage clubs and races - guys come out with their older bikes and have a great time on tamed down tracks. they have a few clubs like this in my area.
for context, I'm a vet rider who takes the sport and training for it very seriously, and I feel most comfortable training and racing on a 450.
Anybody planning on riding cahuilla Wednesday?? I’m thinking it’s a move!
I've been in the race track business for 14 years. Over that time I've had 2 prior medi flights from facilities I've owned. 1 seemed COMPLETELY unnecessary but that's not my call. The last 2 times I've been open for practice we had a medi flight land. I think most people around would say my tracks one of the safer tracks around, just freak accidents both times. But it sure feels like it's more and more common. To the point where I rarely open anymore outside of the 3 or 4 events a year we schedule.
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