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RV was fast but he is no ET3. That isn't a slight at RV but that's just the evolution of the sport. Guys just keep getting better. RV was a great starter which definitely helped win 4 in a row.
I don’t believe anyone has ever gone as fast as Eli at the start of the 15 nationals.
But I think you might be misremembering. RV was fast as fuck
You don't think 2016 Kenny/2018 Herlings would have matched Tomac in 2015? He definitely was in the zone at Hangtown, that's for sure.
I would think so over a season. Beating healthy Dungey by a minute and a half is nuts though
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The tomac fandom has always been weird to me, he has great rides and is fun to watch but as far as championship wins and mental strength he is far behind the elite champions. Dungey beat him 3 straight years before retiring who in turn had been beaten by villopoto 4 straight years but somehow Tomac would beat Villo? Tomac has lost sx titles to Webb, Sexton, Lawrence and even Jason Anderson not to mention mx titles to ferrandis and Osborne.
He has 7 national titles from 26 attempts that’s a 26.9% strike rate in comparison Villo won 9 from 15 equaling 59.4% and Dunge won 8 from 19 at 42.1%.
He is exciting to watch but let’s not re-write history too much, remember all the Elito Mac threads? How many times did we see Villo or Dungey floundering around outside the top 5?
Yup and no matter what Eli does at this point, he’ll always be below Dunge on the all time list for me because of the head to head. Both have astronomical amounts of wins and titles, but the one time they went against eachother, the Diesel came out on top. And as amazing as those 5 motos were in 2015 MX, who won the title that year? Kinda like Mahomes and Brady
Go back and look and I’m sure you’ll see that RV actually had more bad races than you remember. RV started as RC was winding down. RC dominated because he did the whole program. ET arrived as RV was leaving and by then everyone was doing the whole program. Throw in some epic years by Dunge, some weirdo things for ET at Kawi and you don’t have as many championships. He did 3 in a row in 450MX and 2 SX titles. He’s been robbed of atleast 2-3 more. Some of you guys don’t give enough credit to the dude and fawn over RV in a weaker field. In 2013 Tomac had a faster lap than RV on his Geico Honda. I was a huge RV fan when he raced too.
Edited to say he also did this as probably one of the worst starting elite riders of all time. Has anyone passed more riders to win?
RV raced in a weak field what?
That’s a whole lot of hot take
I didn't say weak field. I said "weaker". Go back and look at lap times, compare to today and tell me these guys in the top 10 aren't closer than they have ever been. 2011 not everyone was at a facility training. Like I said I'm not bashing but the sport evolves and guys get better and faster.
Seriously, only an elite fewest of the few reach this kind of milestone
Sadly, you are absolutely right. Eli's high points are as dominant as just about anybody's, but he has spent way more time looking mediocre than any of the other all-time greats... with exception to Reed, but that's when he was in his late-30s.
Well that was easy to disprove
That’s a weak field. I can barely remember some of these guys. Who are these guys? Stewart, Canard, Dungey, Reed, Short? I think one of them had some success at Dakar or something but not sure what the others are up to.
Pick the easiest track on the circuit?
Glad you came around
I didn't come around. I stand by what I said. It's odd to me you think the sport hasn't evolved in 15 years. That the tracks aren't more technical and the fitness and lap times are closer throughout the whole race. You think I'm shitting on the guys of the past, I'm not. We have had multiple past pro's state the same exact thing.
You said to check the lap times, I did. Crazy you are doubling down here, but go off dog
Pit Row
LOL at Dan the Man posting evidence refuting his own claims and then not realizing it
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Dungey in 2022 came off the couch after 5 years of retirement and ran top 5 all season. What you mean? Lap times are invalid since the track are different every year.
Not discrediting him as a rider, he has had some amazing rides and is fun to watch but he has never been at the level of past elites championship wise. Dungey was one of the most consistent riders ever and Villopoto beat him 6-1 in 450 titles so how many bad races could he have had? As for weak fields go back and look at his 3 mx titles. Dungey retired and his other main competitor that beat him 14,15 and destroyed him in 16 lost an arm in 17 and has never been the same rider.
In fairness, two of Villo's titles over RD were due to a broken chain (2011 A2), ignition issues (2011 Southwick), and boiling gas (2011 Freestone) had none of those three happened, Dungey sweeps both SX and MX in 2011. Then we'd be looking at
RV 4
RD 3
In H2H titles.
The guy who said thing thing about Tomac losing titles to guys like Osbourne, Ferrandis, Jason Anderson, and let’s be real, Cooper Webb is a pretty damning point.
RV or even Dungey just wouldn’t lose to those guys.
The only championship Dungey probably deserved to win against Villopoto was 2011 outdoors and honestly Reed probably had the best claim to that title before the Chad-a-pault
I hate any argument that Dungey was wronged in any title chase when multiple guys were having fierce battles for wins with each other while he was a 3-5 guy
Those two are being a hella dramatic over an ACL.
It’s 2025 FFS, not 1975.
That’s a very good point. He was way off peak Dunge and still right in there in the 4-6 range. Even his qualifying times were in that range.
48 year old Kyle Chisholm qualified within 2 seconds of Jet this last weekend so how far have we really progressed?
I mean you literally can't do anything about mechanical mishaps. When you crash that's on you. A chain breaking or gas boiling is 100% out of the riders hands.
Faster riders battling for a win and hitting each other is also out of a riders hands.
Post a reply to: Dungey still the last one to successfully defend an SX title