KTM to file for Bankruptcy/ Self Restructuring on Friday

Cortami79
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NL
1/29/2025 6:18am
GrapeApe wrote:

^^^ will someone please give this guy some attention? He's been trying for 54 pages now.

Which one of the two?

4
Tim507
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Oregon City, OR, USA
1/29/2025 7:12am
Spoonguy wrote:
In and out of this thread. Many of us owe on mortages, business loans, student and car loans. But the banks don't often state they want...

In and out of this thread. Many of us owe on mortages, business loans, student and car loans. But the banks don't often state they want it all back NOW. So KTM has been called on it to pay everything back NOW, and supposedly can come up with 30% now, do the not have to come up with the additional 70% ever? Why were they even asked to pay all their credit back now anyways, interest on 2B seems doable for them? None of this was long term debt? Did there creditors just lose trust or is KTM actually defaulting on something specific?

I'm fairly certain all loans have a Due on Demand Clause. Granted if insolvency precludes payment then the calling the loan is a dead end street. 

Why the demand for a higher percentage? Pressure during the negotiations can have unique benefits perhaps.

The 70% gets forgiven and the lender writes it off and the borrow pays tax on the forgiven amount. (US Law)

During the 2008 Financial Mess, I closed my 20m Commercial Glass Business by liquidation that I processed as it was clear that the market was not coming back anytime soon and the best solution was to close it as there was no bank going to create a bridge load for a citizen. At the same time my bank called the loan and I had 60 days to pay the Line of Credit off.

I had a SBA loan on the property and I did An Offer in Compromise for the shortage caused by a poor RE Market. 

When it was all said and done, I was in the poor house. No home (now a renter) and had a truck and a few dirt bikes.

It has taken well over 10 years to rebuild my finances. Now I’m a home owner, with a truck, car and some dirt bikes – Life is Good😊

27
1
MxAddic
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1/29/2025 7:18am
Cortami79 wrote:

Which one of the two?

I get way more attention than I am looking for. So no...

5
Tim507
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Oregon City, OR, USA
1/29/2025 7:23am
Cortami79 wrote:

Which one of the two?

MxAddic wrote:

I get way more attention than I am looking for. So no...

The truth has been rebuked since the beginning of time and that is not likely to be changed which is truly unfortunate.

1
1

The Shop

Moto520
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2/4/2013
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Schaumburg, IL, USA
1/29/2025 7:31am
Spoonguy wrote:
In and out of this thread. Many of us owe on mortages, business loans, student and car loans. But the banks don't often state they want...

In and out of this thread. Many of us owe on mortages, business loans, student and car loans. But the banks don't often state they want it all back NOW. So KTM has been called on it to pay everything back NOW, and supposedly can come up with 30% now, do the not have to come up with the additional 70% ever? Why were they even asked to pay all their credit back now anyways, interest on 2B seems doable for them? None of this was long term debt? Did there creditors just lose trust or is KTM actually defaulting on something specific?

Tim507 wrote:
I'm fairly certain all loans have a Due on Demand Clause. Granted if insolvency precludes payment then the calling the loan is a dead end street. Why...

I'm fairly certain all loans have a Due on Demand Clause. Granted if insolvency precludes payment then the calling the loan is a dead end street. 

Why the demand for a higher percentage? Pressure during the negotiations can have unique benefits perhaps.

The 70% gets forgiven and the lender writes it off and the borrow pays tax on the forgiven amount. (US Law)

During the 2008 Financial Mess, I closed my 20m Commercial Glass Business by liquidation that I processed as it was clear that the market was not coming back anytime soon and the best solution was to close it as there was no bank going to create a bridge load for a citizen. At the same time my bank called the loan and I had 60 days to pay the Line of Credit off.

I had a SBA loan on the property and I did An Offer in Compromise for the shortage caused by a poor RE Market. 

When it was all said and done, I was in the poor house. No home (now a renter) and had a truck and a few dirt bikes.

It has taken well over 10 years to rebuild my finances. Now I’m a home owner, with a truck, car and some dirt bikes – Life is Good😊

Do you think you made the right decision to close?  glad to hear that you made a comeback.

1
Cortami79
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1974
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Location
NL
1/29/2025 7:35am
Cortami79 wrote:

Which one of the two?

MxAddic wrote:

I get way more attention than I am looking for. So no...

Tim507 wrote:

The truth has been rebuked since the beginning of time and that is not likely to be changed which is truly unfortunate.

I'm not saying that there isn't some truth that our financial system isn't working. And funny enough, I'm an holder in XRP for years as well. But if I want to talk about that I'd go to non-moto or share my thoughts in a reddit discussion 

The amount of replies by you two in this topic - whom add absolutely no value to this particular discussion - makes it to a total of 55 pages. There are some really interesing responses and thoughts in here by other Vitalmx members that cannot get the recognistion because you're flooding it with trash. 

20
1
Tim507
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Location
Oregon City, OR, USA
1/29/2025 7:43am
Spoonguy wrote:
In and out of this thread. Many of us owe on mortages, business loans, student and car loans. But the banks don't often state they want...

In and out of this thread. Many of us owe on mortages, business loans, student and car loans. But the banks don't often state they want it all back NOW. So KTM has been called on it to pay everything back NOW, and supposedly can come up with 30% now, do the not have to come up with the additional 70% ever? Why were they even asked to pay all their credit back now anyways, interest on 2B seems doable for them? None of this was long term debt? Did there creditors just lose trust or is KTM actually defaulting on something specific?

Tim507 wrote:
I'm fairly certain all loans have a Due on Demand Clause. Granted if insolvency precludes payment then the calling the loan is a dead end street. Why...

I'm fairly certain all loans have a Due on Demand Clause. Granted if insolvency precludes payment then the calling the loan is a dead end street. 

Why the demand for a higher percentage? Pressure during the negotiations can have unique benefits perhaps.

The 70% gets forgiven and the lender writes it off and the borrow pays tax on the forgiven amount. (US Law)

During the 2008 Financial Mess, I closed my 20m Commercial Glass Business by liquidation that I processed as it was clear that the market was not coming back anytime soon and the best solution was to close it as there was no bank going to create a bridge load for a citizen. At the same time my bank called the loan and I had 60 days to pay the Line of Credit off.

I had a SBA loan on the property and I did An Offer in Compromise for the shortage caused by a poor RE Market. 

When it was all said and done, I was in the poor house. No home (now a renter) and had a truck and a few dirt bikes.

It has taken well over 10 years to rebuild my finances. Now I’m a home owner, with a truck, car and some dirt bikes – Life is Good😊

Moto520 wrote:

Do you think you made the right decision to close?  glad to hear that you made a comeback.

Absolutely! Banking has become so oppressive to the small entrepreneur with added covenants and paperwork that I do not miss that part. Yes I so miss the freedom that having a good cash flow provides.

I also went through a nasty divorce at the same time that also ended well for me. That was the result of 100% honesty during the proceedings add letting it be as it is……

Yes life is good as after all this, I’m still the same guy I have always been.

Thanks for the appreciation😊

 

PS  KTM will more than likely be restructured as a Profit Center for someone.

6
1
Hammer 663s
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Forest Grove, OR, USA
1/29/2025 9:49am
Team403 wrote:
I would think that even if they get courts approval some suppliers may refuse to supply them any more product or even worse yet become insolvent...

I would think that even if they get courts approval some suppliers may refuse to supply them any more product or even worse yet become insolvent themselves.  This could ultimately affect their production in the short term.  No product - no profit.  Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

I beleive I read in the thread and elsewhere that PMG bought the foundry that does their swingarms and other parts just last Fall, and that it went into bankruptcy just a few weeks later. Layoffs have happened and it may be entirely closed now. That's a pretty significant supplier that's gone. Where will the forgings be made now? China? India? I seriously doubt quality will be the same if that's the case.

1
Team403
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Lago Vista, TX, USA
1/29/2025 12:10pm
Team403 wrote:
I would think that even if they get courts approval some suppliers may refuse to supply them any more product or even worse yet become insolvent...

I would think that even if they get courts approval some suppliers may refuse to supply them any more product or even worse yet become insolvent themselves.  This could ultimately affect their production in the short term.  No product - no profit.  Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

I beleive I read in the thread and elsewhere that PMG bought the foundry that does their swingarms and other parts just last Fall, and that...

I beleive I read in the thread and elsewhere that PMG bought the foundry that does their swingarms and other parts just last Fall, and that it went into bankruptcy just a few weeks later. Layoffs have happened and it may be entirely closed now. That's a pretty significant supplier that's gone. Where will the forgings be made now? China? India? I seriously doubt quality will be the same if that's the case.

It’s just a swingarm what could go wrong 🤔🤪

Dsigner
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Eagle, ID, USA
1/29/2025 2:04pm

I'm hoping with all of this FMF, Akrapovic and Acerbis are able to sell NEW parts online. Pierer made it so these things are ONLY available through their dealers and threatened legal action to anyone selling this stuff online.

1
mtbkris2
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San Diego, CA, USA
1/29/2025 2:10pm
MONEY. wrote:
Outside of San Diego SX things are continuing to go down hill for the PMG. They are sending all their in house motorcycles to auction. Their...

Outside of San Diego SX things are continuing to go down hill for the PMG. They are sending all their in house motorcycles to auction. Their Virginia warehouse is at full capacity and they have no space in the Ohio or California warehouse. If your into auctions you will probably be able to find a smoking deal as they are selling all the bikes as a packaged deal. 

NSP139 wrote:

Can you buy individual bikes at auction or do you have to buy a certain quantity?

Also, where does one find such an auction 

2
MPJC
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Fantasy
1/29/2025 2:19pm
Cortami79 wrote:

Which one of the two?

MxAddic wrote:

I get way more attention than I am looking for. So no...

Tim507 wrote:

The truth has been rebuked since the beginning of time and that is not likely to be changed which is truly unfortunate.

Suppose the following is true (it's not, but you seem to be asserting it): "If you're telling the truth, you will be rebuked".

From the above, you can not validly infer: "I am being rebuked, therefore I'm telling the truth". That would be the fallacy of affirming the consequent.

Is it possible that the "rebukes" are for other reasons? Not everyone who's persecuted is right. 

6
Tim507
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Location
Oregon City, OR, USA
1/29/2025 3:34pm
MxAddic wrote:

I get way more attention than I am looking for. So no...

Tim507 wrote:

The truth has been rebuked since the beginning of time and that is not likely to be changed which is truly unfortunate.

MPJC wrote:
Suppose the following is true (it's not, but you seem to be asserting it): "If you're telling the truth, you will be rebuked".From the above, you...

Suppose the following is true (it's not, but you seem to be asserting it): "If you're telling the truth, you will be rebuked".

From the above, you can not validly infer: "I am being rebuked, therefore I'm telling the truth". That would be the fallacy of affirming the consequent.

Is it possible that the "rebukes" are for other reasons? Not everyone who's persecuted is right. 

I would agree that I could have chisen a better word😇🙃

Never the less I rather doubt that the intention was lost....

cwel11
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Orangeville, PA, USA
1/29/2025 4:14pm
Cortami79 wrote:

Which one of the two?

MxAddic wrote:

I get way more attention than I am looking for. So no...

The fact that you knew he was referring to you is telling. You know you’re being a jagoff here (because somebody once said something bad about your Kawasaki) and you have no shame about that fact. 

5
j368
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Tulsa, OK, USA
1/29/2025 5:37pm
Spoonguy wrote:
In and out of this thread. Many of us owe on mortages, business loans, student and car loans. But the banks don't often state they want...

In and out of this thread. Many of us owe on mortages, business loans, student and car loans. But the banks don't often state they want it all back NOW. So KTM has been called on it to pay everything back NOW, and supposedly can come up with 30% now, do the not have to come up with the additional 70% ever? Why were they even asked to pay all their credit back now anyways, interest on 2B seems doable for them? None of this was long term debt? Did there creditors just lose trust or is KTM actually defaulting on something specific?

A, either they defaulted on a loan or paying late. Or B, the Banks looked at the debt and liquidity and made the call for KTM to pay up. The fine print in most loans and lines of credit give the lender the option to call the loan at anytime. 

1
Money
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Fresno, CA, USA
1/29/2025 7:17pm
Spoonguy wrote:
In and out of this thread. Many of us owe on mortages, business loans, student and car loans. But the banks don't often state they want...

In and out of this thread. Many of us owe on mortages, business loans, student and car loans. But the banks don't often state they want it all back NOW. So KTM has been called on it to pay everything back NOW, and supposedly can come up with 30% now, do the not have to come up with the additional 70% ever? Why were they even asked to pay all their credit back now anyways, interest on 2B seems doable for them? None of this was long term debt? Did there creditors just lose trust or is KTM actually defaulting on something specific?

j368 wrote:
A, either they defaulted on a loan or paying late. Or B, the Banks looked at the debt and liquidity and made the call for KTM...

A, either they defaulted on a loan or paying late. Or B, the Banks looked at the debt and liquidity and made the call for KTM to pay up. The fine print in most loans and lines of credit give the lender the option to call the loan at anytime. 

So now what?

1/29/2025 7:24pm
Spoonguy wrote:
In and out of this thread. Many of us owe on mortages, business loans, student and car loans. But the banks don't often state they want...

In and out of this thread. Many of us owe on mortages, business loans, student and car loans. But the banks don't often state they want it all back NOW. So KTM has been called on it to pay everything back NOW, and supposedly can come up with 30% now, do the not have to come up with the additional 70% ever? Why were they even asked to pay all their credit back now anyways, interest on 2B seems doable for them? None of this was long term debt? Did there creditors just lose trust or is KTM actually defaulting on something specific?

j368 wrote:
A, either they defaulted on a loan or paying late. Or B, the Banks looked at the debt and liquidity and made the call for KTM...

A, either they defaulted on a loan or paying late. Or B, the Banks looked at the debt and liquidity and made the call for KTM to pay up. The fine print in most loans and lines of credit give the lender the option to call the loan at anytime. 

Money wrote:

So now what?

We wait until the final vote on February 25th...

latest-2277902712
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Dynamometer
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1/29/2025 7:24pm

Can someone give me a quick rundown of what was discussed over the last 55 pages?

3
Team403
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1/29/2025 7:30pm

We wait another month

1/29/2025 7:34pm

Can someone give me a quick rundown of what was discussed over the last 55 pages?

KTM's parent company Pierer Mobility is in trouble, they spent too much money, have a years worth of bikes in stock, creditors want their money, management wants to keep trading, they are negotiating, it will be decided on 25th February.

12
Dynamometer
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Boise, ID, USA
1/29/2025 7:50pm

Can someone give me a quick rundown of what was discussed over the last 55 pages?

KTM's parent company Pierer Mobility is in trouble, they spent too much money, have a years worth of bikes in stock, creditors want their money, management...

KTM's parent company Pierer Mobility is in trouble, they spent too much money, have a years worth of bikes in stock, creditors want their money, management wants to keep trading, they are negotiating, it will be decided on 25th February.

Thanks

soggy
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1/29/2025 9:21pm
cwel11 wrote:
The fact that you knew he was referring to you is telling. You know you’re being a jagoff here (because somebody once said something bad about...

The fact that you knew he was referring to you is telling. You know you’re being a jagoff here (because somebody once said something bad about your Kawasaki) and you have no shame about that fact. 

Since this thread is already fucked… My favorite mxaddic Idiocracy is when he argued with the guy with a cracked kx frame and having his foot peg mounts installed incorrectly. When A it wouldn’t even be possible and B the picture evidence clearly showed they were mounted correctly. 

4
Beagle
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Toulouse, FR
1/29/2025 10:49pm

Can someone give me a quick rundown of what was discussed over the last 55 pages?

KTM's parent company Pierer Mobility is in trouble, they spent too much money, have a years worth of bikes in stock, creditors want their money, management...

KTM's parent company Pierer Mobility is in trouble, they spent too much money, have a years worth of bikes in stock, creditors want their money, management wants to keep trading, they are negotiating, it will be decided on 25th February.

If I may add, debt multiplied by 3 in 2023 and again by 3 in 2024, ballooning from 200M to more than 2B in the past couple of years. 

1800 workers have lost their job.

The 2 options in the insolvency process PMG have entered are either a restructuring plan (repaying a set quota in 2 years, minimum is 30%) or bankruptcy (for which it was said in court creditors would get 14%). 

KTM got investors onboard in the aim to inject 900M to get the restructuring plan going. 

Creditors will vote on February 25th, outcome will depend on what creditors owning the majority of the debt decide (collectively banks hold more than 50% of the debt). 

3
1
1/29/2025 10:56pm

Can someone give me a quick rundown of what was discussed over the last 55 pages?

KTM's parent company Pierer Mobility is in trouble, they spent too much money, have a years worth of bikes in stock, creditors want their money, management...

KTM's parent company Pierer Mobility is in trouble, they spent too much money, have a years worth of bikes in stock, creditors want their money, management wants to keep trading, they are negotiating, it will be decided on 25th February.

And PMG is still racing 

1
MxAddic
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1/30/2025 3:52am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2025 8:29am
cwel11 wrote:
The fact that you knew he was referring to you is telling. You know you’re being a jagoff here (because somebody once said something bad about...

The fact that you knew he was referring to you is telling. You know you’re being a jagoff here (because somebody once said something bad about your Kawasaki) and you have no shame about that fact. 

You are a clueless idiot. LMFAO, YEAH I have a hard on for KTM because a vitard said my Kawi is a POS, LOL.

Plenty of reasons for me not to like KTM. That ain't one buddy.

14
MxAddic
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1/30/2025 4:09am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2025 4:10am
cwel11 wrote:
The fact that you knew he was referring to you is telling. You know you’re being a jagoff here (because somebody once said something bad about...

The fact that you knew he was referring to you is telling. You know you’re being a jagoff here (because somebody once said something bad about your Kawasaki) and you have no shame about that fact. 

soggy wrote:
Since this thread is already fucked… My favorite mxaddic Idiocracy is when he argued with the guy with a cracked kx frame and having his foot...

Since this thread is already fucked… My favorite mxaddic Idiocracy is when he argued with the guy with a cracked kx frame and having his foot peg mounts installed incorrectly. When A it wouldn’t even be possible and B the picture evidence clearly showed they were mounted correctly. 

Actually it's clowns like both of you ruining the thread. If you can't see the peg was improperly mounted in the top 2 holes you both make the top 10 dumbest fucKers on this site.

s1200 0D05C602 294B 4A24 BB34 DB0AB7D46255

.

6
Team403
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Lago Vista, TX, USA
1/30/2025 5:47am

Can we talk about the ballooning debt the past few  years?

seems hard to believe buying some low level bicycle co and overproduction made much of a dent here.  Is this simply the compounding effect of higher %, MXGP, etc…?

 

1
Beagle
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Toulouse, FR
1/30/2025 6:48am
Team403 wrote:
Can we talk about the ballooning debt the past few  years?seems hard to believe buying some low level bicycle co and overproduction made much of a...

Can we talk about the ballooning debt the past few  years?

seems hard to believe buying some low level bicycle co and overproduction made much of a dent here.  Is this simply the compounding effect of higher %, MXGP, etc…?

 

That's the main thing to me, I would like to understand how much of that crazy surge in debt is due to variable interests and stuff like that.

When you gain almost 2B debt in 2 years, 0.046B a year to race MotoGP is a rounding error, even with MXGP, SMX, Dakar and everything, total racing costs were 0.095B in 2023.

1
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