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That's true, Utility patents are good for 20 years,so when Showa introduced the closed cartridge (twin chamber) fork in 1997, a utility patent would cover the general design until 2017, but when design changes were made to the same concept forks, design patents would cover those for 15 years.
Showa Japan could only sue KOV China, if Showa has a patent in China, if they want to sue for products sold in the US Showa would need to sue the importer in the US.
A utility patent is basically function, way, and results. Product could look the same. If it functions different, in a different way to achieve a different result, that’s not infringing on a utility patent.
A design patent only covers the appearance, nothing with how it works. In a utility patent you actually get design coverage. Your product is described in your claims. Your claims are what you own for a patent.
Every time Honda made a change to the fork (A bunch since 1997). A revision to the utility patent would most likely have taken place (at least it did with my patent). Every revision would give them a new 20 year date on what has been revised only. Like if the thickness of upper tubes changed even though they look the same. If a new utility patent wasn’t done for an updated fork of any kind.
KOVE would still be involved if Showa sued the US importer. It’s KOVEs product, not the importers. The importers could be sued for sales by Showa as you said, but nothing on literal infringement. Only KOVE can be sued for literal infringement. A company as big as Showa has worldwide patents, at least for multiple countries.
That’s IF any infringement was going on. I’m betting the internals are very different from the two.
If you look at Honda and Showa's patents, there are no dimensions, so revised patents cannot be issued for dimensional changes, only for functional changes. If you have revised utility patents based only on dimensional and not functional changes, good luck defending them in court!
If the product is imported into a country with a patent covering that product, it is the importer who is liable for any patent infringement, not the foreign manufacturer.
Man, I’m not trying to hijack this thread.
You don’t give dimensions in your patent. That would be suicide in court. You would never use actual numbers, only words like thicker, or larger, etc. to gain a broader claim. You only explain what your invention is, describe your parts and way of function. You also verbally do it when you correspond with the examiner in charge of your file. I literally had a 20 min phone call with my examiner about my revision. If Showa changed the thickness of material and explained the way it changed the suspension works to achieve a better way. Meaning Showa proved it changed the function. Showa could get a revision to previous patent or apply for a new one.
If Showa had a patent on the revision, it would hold up in court. KOVE could pay big money to have the patent reevaluated and hope the patent office came back and said we revoke this patent. In the patent world, it’s all about how much money one has to spend on legal fees. Showa wins…
I’ve talked to my attorney a few times about infringement. I promise you KOVE would be involved if Showa sued the importer here. Importer here would immediately reach out to KOVE and need the manufacturer to supply what patents they may or may not have. Also supply whatever reasons for not needing patents on questionable things. The importer would then use that in court . Importer can only be sued for selling. Not sued for literal infringement on the patent. Only KOVE can. You need to understand the difference of literal infringement vs infringement.
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Huge difference between something being made in china (like an iPhone), vs something like a Kove or CFmoto, that is designed, made, and marketed in China, and all the profits go back to China. Atleast with the iPhone , it was designed here and the profits go to a US company, just the labor cost went to a Chinese firm.
When buying a motorcycle, I'd rather my money go to a Japanese or euro company.. I'm just not a fan of China. It's already tough to avoid their products, why start buying a completely Chinese bike?
Communist, dictatorship, IP theft, and their support of Russia is crazy, with the amount of oil and coal they buy, helping support that regime. No thanks.
There's some argument that The Stasi got their revenge on Degner with his death........
Buggered if I can find my copy of Stealing Speed, I think that the same someone that borrowed my 2 CCM books, has it, and the bastard has gone back to Unz Zud with them. Bloody Kiwis!
If they just make a better looking shroud everything else sees pretty good. Shroud is ass ugly tho.
I’ve mentioned it before but during Covid when anything with a motor had a massive markup, we bought my daughter a Kayo 90’ quad. I knew it was Taiwanese, I knew parts would be hard to come by, and I knew I would get shit for it…..but I also knew it was 3k cheaper than a Japanese option.
4 years later I have replaced 1 sprocket and 2 chains….the thing is bullet proof. My opinion of these “knock-offs” has changed drastically over the years
Not at all.
I’ve seen Kove products in person and in competition. I know this industry and the products very, very well. So, with all of that I’ve made a very well informed decision for myself.
As I said, for my $6,000 plus delivery….I’ll pass.
Did you see the part where I explained that I simply wanted known components and the product support and quality implied there in?
This is the web, we’re discussing viewpoints & opinions. That all.
But designed in California….😂
And the line ups are around the corner and rarely on sale.
China is not the same as they were even 10 years ago.
Available soon on Temu, complete "motor crosser in a box" kit, includes Chinese motor cross bike, knock off motor cross riding gear, and knock off Chinese tool box, all for $6995, shipping direct to your door from China (to avoid tariffs). While supplies last!
My buddy just bought a complete 62cc saw with bar and chain for $84 shipped. The MS270 he bought new was the biggest POS ever according to him. We will see.
I’m curious to hear more of your thoughts on the bike because you have clearly experienced it at some level.
How did you feel about the overall build quality compared to what you typically see?
When you say you want known components that makes sense but a brand has to start somewhere, right? I guess in more simple terms what hurdles would you need to see them clear to be considered a viable option for yourself or the moto community in general? Or is the biggest hurdle the country it’s made in?
One hurdle they seem to have overcome that the others cannot because they have been doing it for decades is suspension related. The Big Boys all try and set a bike up for Joe Sixpack and Joe Pro. It ends up being not so great except for a select few. Kove seems to have targeted a specific group and it ends up being good for most.
Other than being down about 5HP or so to the class leaders it looks solid.
Price seems a tad high, otherwise would be a fantastic alternative to heavy/undersuspended KLX300/CRF-F type bikes.
Kove Dakar bikes are running along with KTM and Honda factory bikes this years Dakar rally.
Pit Row
They are in the race, yes. They definitely aren't competing at the pointy end with the other Factory Teams though.
This is 2 years in a row that Mason Klein has killed the motor on his within the first week of the race.
The Kove Rally Bike seems fine for "weekend warriors" but is definitely not on par with the offerings from KTM & Honda.
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