KTM Has an Entire Year's Worth of Unsold Motorcycles Piling Up 265,000 motorcycles are just...hangin' around.

j368
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Tulsa, OK, USA
12/22/2024 4:13pm
My question is how in fuck do they still sponsor a US sx effort.  Suppliers and employees owed money. Here Chase here's ur 150k for December...

My question is how in fuck do they still sponsor a US sx effort.  Suppliers and employees owed money. Here Chase here's ur 150k for December. And here's ur 100k for winning A1. 

My thought exactly. Employees not getting paid, vendors getting stiffed, stock price tanked. I can’t see how any race team budget doesn’t get slashed big time or flat out eliminated. They don’t have any money, credit lines are maxed out. The vultures are gonna move in unless someone throws them a lifeline. 

3
1
Team403
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12/22/2024 4:43pm

It doesn’t matter what they do - win all day everyday- it doesn’t change the fact that people can’t afford toys right now.

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j368
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12/22/2024 5:11pm
Team403 wrote:

It doesn’t matter what they do - win all day everyday- it doesn’t change the fact that people can’t afford toys right now.

Very true. 

4
Herr Lich
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12/22/2024 5:17pm
NSP139 wrote:
Pretty crazy we have to collapse of one of the main players but none of the media wants to talk about it! But hey we got...

Pretty crazy we have to collapse of one of the main players but none of the media wants to talk about it! But hey we got a feature of moto moms go figure?

1

The Shop

Titan1
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12/22/2024 5:18pm

I was at a dealer yesterday…the guy told me he was told by KTM that they will not be rolling out any new models until 2027…(so they will skip 2026 and 2027 model years) assuming they move all this inventory by then….but that it would otherwise be business as usual and they’ll restructure and come out stronger.

Take that for what you will…I have no evidence to back that up…

2
12/22/2024 5:26pm
Titan1 wrote:
I was at a dealer yesterday…the guy told me he was told by KTM that they will not be rolling out any new models until 2027…(so...

I was at a dealer yesterday…the guy told me he was told by KTM that they will not be rolling out any new models until 2027…(so they will skip 2026 and 2027 model years) assuming they move all this inventory by then….but that it would otherwise be business as usual and they’ll restructure and come out stronger.

Take that for what you will…I have no evidence to back that up…

They could slap bold new graphics on existing stock and sell them as 2026 and 2027 models.

11
12/22/2024 5:36pm

Would the Japanese run deep discounts on bikes to twist the knife on the ktm group even more? Or is ktm brand loyalty to strong? 

PNWMXer
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12/22/2024 5:42pm
Titan1 wrote:
I was at a dealer yesterday…the guy told me he was told by KTM that they will not be rolling out any new models until 2027…(so...

I was at a dealer yesterday…the guy told me he was told by KTM that they will not be rolling out any new models until 2027…(so they will skip 2026 and 2027 model years) assuming they move all this inventory by then….but that it would otherwise be business as usual and they’ll restructure and come out stronger.

Take that for what you will…I have no evidence to back that up…

They could slap bold new graphics on existing stock and sell them as 2026 and 2027 models.

Maybe on the 25’s, (for moto models)but the frame was new (or more accurately, revised) for 25. The buttload of 24’s still in inventory have the reputation of a crap frame no one wants. That reputation may be more perception and urban legend than reality, but it’s still the common perception. They’re going to have a hell of a time unloading 2024 models. Motosport Hillsboro has new 24 450s at something like 7499…lots of them.

8
1
wwdiii
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League City, TX, USA
12/22/2024 5:54pm
Titan1 wrote:
I was at a dealer yesterday…the guy told me he was told by KTM that they will not be rolling out any new models until 2027…(so...

I was at a dealer yesterday…the guy told me he was told by KTM that they will not be rolling out any new models until 2027…(so they will skip 2026 and 2027 model years) assuming they move all this inventory by then….but that it would otherwise be business as usual and they’ll restructure and come out stronger.

Take that for what you will…I have no evidence to back that up…

They could slap bold new graphics on existing stock and sell them as 2026 and 2027 models.

PNWMXer wrote:
Maybe on the 25’s, (for moto models)but the frame was new (or more accurately, revised) for 25. The buttload of 24’s still in inventory have the...

Maybe on the 25’s, (for moto models)but the frame was new (or more accurately, revised) for 25. The buttload of 24’s still in inventory have the reputation of a crap frame no one wants. That reputation may be more perception and urban legend than reality, but it’s still the common perception. They’re going to have a hell of a time unloading 2024 models. Motosport Hillsboro has new 24 450s at something like 7499…lots of them.

One of the dealers here in Houston area had two new 2024 Husqvarna FC450’s for $5999 before taxes, fee’s, that’s a deal in our area. 

2
Team403
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12/22/2024 6:07pm
wwdiii wrote:

One of the dealers here in Houston area had two new 2024 Husqvarna FC450’s for $5999 before taxes, fee’s, that’s a deal in our area. 

Tanking the used market in the process.  Bet I’d be lucky to get 3500 my 22 XC. 

2
j368
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12/22/2024 6:20pm
NSP139 wrote:
Pretty crazy we have to collapse of one of the main players but none of the media wants to talk about it! But hey we got...

Pretty crazy we have to collapse of one of the main players but none of the media wants to talk about it! But hey we got a feature of moto moms go figure?

Herr Lich wrote:

A lot has changed since that story was written a month ago. KTM is hemorrhaging cash. I hope they make it, but it looks pretty grim. 

1
KurtJ99
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12/22/2024 6:35pm

They could slap bold new graphics on existing stock and sell them as 2026 and 2027 models.

Vital 2023: Suzuki gotta stop releasing BNG every year. They are done. 
Vital 2024: KTM’’s gotta BNG like Suzuki or they are done. 

42
1
Spooner
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12/22/2024 7:15pm

This will force all the manufacturers to drop prices until this stuff gets flushed through the dealers.

1
Tyler D
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La, CA, USA
12/22/2024 8:02pm

much of the bicycle industry has moved away from model years to mask fluctuations in supply. i believe santa cruz even repainted some very nice carbon frames for at least one 'model year'. could definitely see that happening here. honesty, some stability in spare parts reqs would benefit everybody. suspension has plateaued. motors are getting close. i think chassis design still has a way to go, but how far are we really from the class-leading 2008 yzf-R6 that stayed roughly the same for 10 years plus some electronics?

9
Magoofan
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12/22/2024 8:51pm Edited Date/Time 12/22/2024 8:53pm
KurtJ99 wrote:

Vital 2023: Suzuki gotta stop releasing BNG every year. They are done. 
Vital 2024: KTM’’s gotta BNG like Suzuki or they are done. 

Post of the thread ^^^^^

Suzuki's business model not looking so bad right now. 

Welcome to the beginning of the end.    Guess what....average people can't afford $10-12K dirt bikes and all the shit that goes with them.  Not to mention, the vast majority of people don't NEED all that is offered today.         The industry did this to themselves

Who didn't see this coming?

 

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10
12/22/2024 8:53pm

Where's the file sale PMG? Those 300 SXs aren't going to sell themselves 

1
12/22/2024 8:58pm
My question is how in fuck do they still sponsor a US sx effort.  Suppliers and employees owed money. Here Chase here's ur 150k for December...

My question is how in fuck do they still sponsor a US sx effort.  Suppliers and employees owed money. Here Chase here's ur 150k for December. And here's ur 100k for winning A1. 

I don’t understand how it all works but KTM North America seems to be ok for the time being from what folks have said. 

NicNak wrote:

I’d say 150k is way low. $3-4 mill salary from KTM. 

No, realistically $2 million salary. 

And for Darrin, there are a thing called sponsors (gives you wings).

1
12/22/2024 9:01pm
Titan1 wrote:
I was at a dealer yesterday…the guy told me he was told by KTM that they will not be rolling out any new models until 2027…(so...

I was at a dealer yesterday…the guy told me he was told by KTM that they will not be rolling out any new models until 2027…(so they will skip 2026 and 2027 model years) assuming they move all this inventory by then….but that it would otherwise be business as usual and they’ll restructure and come out stronger.

Take that for what you will…I have no evidence to back that up…

They could slap bold new graphics on existing stock and sell them as 2026 and 2027 models.

Suzuki: This is the Way

1
12/22/2024 9:09pm

While PMG did likely make errors in production forecasting, my best guess is that the problems they had were not on the product side, but the finance side.   Interest rates have gone up across the board and they may have not done a good job hedging their forex account vs. dollars.  When dollars and interest rates spike as they have, this puts tremendous pressure on borrowers like PMG.  

For those following the Tracks Closing threads, that is also likely one of the main culprits for lack of underwriters.  The insurance companies have all taken huge losses on their bond portfolios with interest rates rising and so they have to clip their most unprofitable and risky lines and hike rates on everything that's left.  

Long story short, the unprecedented 40 year credit expansion that has fueled so much false prosperity is over and its time to pay the bill.

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1
12/22/2024 9:16pm
KurtJ99 wrote:

Vital 2023: Suzuki gotta stop releasing BNG every year. They are done. 
Vital 2024: KTM’’s gotta BNG like Suzuki or they are done. 

Magoofan wrote:
Post of the thread ^^^^^Suzuki's business model not looking so bad right now. Welcome to the beginning of the end.    Guess what....average people can't afford $10-12K...

Post of the thread ^^^^^

Suzuki's business model not looking so bad right now. 

Welcome to the beginning of the end.    Guess what....average people can't afford $10-12K dirt bikes and all the shit that goes with them.  Not to mention, the vast majority of people don't NEED all that is offered today.         The industry did this to themselves

Who didn't see this coming?

 

Post pandemic inflation has caused the prices of EVERTHING (for the most part) to go up, world wide, leaving less disposable income for hobbies like MX.  I don't blame that necessarily on the manufacturers... what do they have to with the prices of your groceries going up.  And lets not forget, its 2024, and alot of 25-30 year old guys have a $1200 smart phone in their pocket, pay for various streaming subscriptions, have an expensive gaming system at home, expensive pick up truck, weekends drinking with the boys, Onlyfans subscriptions (LOL) that guys like me didn't have 25 years ago... many of those things just didn't exist.   Everybody spends more money on more "things" these days, which makes it seem like there's less money left over for rather expensive hobbies like dirt bikes.   

And if companies like Yamaha and Honda are still selling plenty of bikes, I doubt we will see them getting any cheaper, unless we stop buying them.  KTM I think is something sort of unique... there problems are more than just a dip in sales of their bikes, their company seems like it was just mis-managed and a lof of critical errors were made coming out of the pandemic.  KTM always seemed very aggressive to me, with everything they do, and they mis-calculated growth and sort of ignored quality control and customer service.  The Japanese always seem much more conservative with everything they do, which probably makes coming out of a pandemic easier to deal with.

14
12/22/2024 9:49pm
Titan1 wrote:
I was at a dealer yesterday…the guy told me he was told by KTM that they will not be rolling out any new models until 2027…(so...

I was at a dealer yesterday…the guy told me he was told by KTM that they will not be rolling out any new models until 2027…(so they will skip 2026 and 2027 model years) assuming they move all this inventory by then….but that it would otherwise be business as usual and they’ll restructure and come out stronger.

Take that for what you will…I have no evidence to back that up…

They could slap bold new graphics on existing stock and sell them as 2026 and 2027 models.

Suzuki: This is the Way

All the manufacturers have done it at some stage...

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Darrin Willis
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12/22/2024 10:16pm

I don’t understand how it all works but KTM North America seems to be ok for the time being from what folks have said. 

NicNak wrote:

I’d say 150k is way low. $3-4 mill salary from KTM. 

No, realistically $2 million salary. 

And for Darrin, there are a thing called sponsors (gives you wings).

150k was for 1 month. I honestly have no clue what goes into financially supporting a factory team works. Yes I understand sponsorships. But I'm quite certain it still takes a shit ton of dough from the factory. Does everyone on this forum have to be a condescending know it all?

10
Motofinne
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FI
12/22/2024 11:21pm

I don’t understand how it all works but KTM North America seems to be ok for the time being from what folks have said. 

NicNak wrote:

I’d say 150k is way low. $3-4 mill salary from KTM. 

No, realistically $2 million salary. 

And for Darrin, there are a thing called sponsors (gives you wings).

Read the latest financial report. PMG is paying something around 300 million per year for their racing efforts AFTER sponsorship income has been taken into account.

4
12/23/2024 3:38am
My question is how in fuck do they still sponsor a US sx effort.  Suppliers and employees owed money. Here Chase here's ur 150k for December...

My question is how in fuck do they still sponsor a US sx effort.  Suppliers and employees owed money. Here Chase here's ur 150k for December. And here's ur 100k for winning A1. 

I don’t understand how it all works but KTM North America seems to be ok for the time being from what folks have said. 

2025 budgets have already been paid and allocated, including Moto GP and all global racing efforts. The ones in Europe are ran from separate businesses and an amount is sent for the year along with all outside sponsors. This is why racing activities for 2025 are fine, but 2026 will be when the fallout it seen.


It’s done like this for tax reasons, as well as teams needing pre season testing covered.

4
1
yz133rider
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Avondale, PA, USA
12/23/2024 3:47am
Taylor415 wrote:

I got a 17 350 brand new off the floor for 7800. If that deal comes back I’m buying two. 
 

Those deals have been here for a couple years again already. I bought my 22 Gasgas mc350 for 6750 out the door. There’s 2023 tc125s for 4999. Look around…

3
Tim507
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Oregon City, OR, USA
12/23/2024 4:55am
While PMG did likely make errors in production forecasting, my best guess is that the problems they had were not on the product side, but the...

While PMG did likely make errors in production forecasting, my best guess is that the problems they had were not on the product side, but the finance side.   Interest rates have gone up across the board and they may have not done a good job hedging their forex account vs. dollars.  When dollars and interest rates spike as they have, this puts tremendous pressure on borrowers like PMG.  

For those following the Tracks Closing threads, that is also likely one of the main culprits for lack of underwriters.  The insurance companies have all taken huge losses on their bond portfolios with interest rates rising and so they have to clip their most unprofitable and risky lines and hike rates on everything that's left.  

Long story short, the unprecedented 40 year credit expansion that has fueled so much false prosperity is over and its time to pay the bill.

1
MxAddic
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USA
12/23/2024 5:08am
5
12/23/2024 5:54am

I wonder what Triumph and Ducati Corporate are thinking....I believe they saw a prosperous market and thought we can get $10 - 14K for making a dirt bike ok we are in! Now what? KTM bikes will possibly be marked way down and I think Triumph and Ducati will have to be competitive in pricing, could kill them since they are new to the market. I think the Japanese brands can withstand price drops since they have been around a long time.

4
1
MxAddic
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12/23/2024 6:11am
I wonder what Triumph and Ducati Corporate are thinking....I believe they saw a prosperous market and thought we can get $10 - 14K for making a...

I wonder what Triumph and Ducati Corporate are thinking....I believe they saw a prosperous market and thought we can get $10 - 14K for making a dirt bike ok we are in! Now what? KTM bikes will possibly be marked way down and I think Triumph and Ducati will have to be competitive in pricing, could kill them since they are new to the market. I think the Japanese brands can withstand price drops since they have been around a long time.

I think they are smoking Cuban's.

1
1
Darrin Willis
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Location
Red Deer County, AB, CA
12/23/2024 6:25am
My question is how in fuck do they still sponsor a US sx effort.  Suppliers and employees owed money. Here Chase here's ur 150k for December...

My question is how in fuck do they still sponsor a US sx effort.  Suppliers and employees owed money. Here Chase here's ur 150k for December. And here's ur 100k for winning A1. 

I don’t understand how it all works but KTM North America seems to be ok for the time being from what folks have said. 

MXBen711 wrote:
2025 budgets have already been paid and allocated, including Moto GP and all global racing efforts. The ones in Europe are ran from separate businesses and...

2025 budgets have already been paid and allocated, including Moto GP and all global racing efforts. The ones in Europe are ran from separate businesses and an amount is sent for the year along with all outside sponsors. This is why racing activities for 2025 are fine, but 2026 will be when the fallout it seen.


It’s done like this for tax reasons, as well as teams needing pre season testing covered.

Paid and allocated means its sitting in a bank somewhere waiting to be spent.  Doesn't guarantee it won't go back to the pot to pay off creditors. 

5

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