So I just bought a stolen Stark!

12/15/2024 10:12pm
LungButter wrote:

You’ve seen this happen before?

Really?

 

Yes actually have heard of cash sale, bike never transferred from dealer certificate of origin and dealer tries to trace down bike after year or so of use claiming they never sold it.


This happens more than you think.

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4
Tryhard
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12/15/2024 10:37pm Edited Date/Time 12/15/2024 10:42pm

I dealt with a similar, but no so similar issue a couple year ago with a so called "sandbox friend". Had some vehicles i was going to work on, dropped them off unannounced, they weren't as described, not worth fixing. 2 year later, assessment time came around i needed them removed, as some drama as to why i had not touched them had come up " people with accountability issues man facepalm ". I wanted them gone and gave him 90 days to do so. He did not remove them, so I used a 100% legit abandoned title service here in my state. I contacted the guy and offered to sell him the vehicles back for the exact amount I had paid the titling service to do the process, not my time or effort included. I basically stated to him that i just wanted them removed and thought that would be doing the right thing. He declined and accused me of blackmail, and an auto theft. Contacted the police, and it was on from there, I had to prove my innocence. I rightfully did, and guess what the dmv investigator was as well on my side. I deeply encourage you to contact a dmv investigator at your local state police department precent, to find out if the title was indeed legit or not. They will have record of the transfer. Most local police do not have access to those origination documents. They are required to investigate your matter. I would in return file your own complaint against the seller, and possibly the dealer. This will indeed have the state police crawling up both of their asses. 

The moral of my TLDR story is, the dealer may have been done wrong and fully issued a pink slip, and may be claiming its fake, but the state police can tell you if it is fake or not and was actually issued but claiming it is fake because terms of the sale were broken afterward. Which is not your fault.  Local police are required to investigate every matter. If someone said you have stolen property, and you are willing to turn it over. OfCourse they were there when you got there. Who knows that type of story they dealer may have provided them with, to attempt to retract their bad decision. You can make false accusations against anyone in the USA. More times or not, it will be you proving your innocence. 

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MxAddic
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12/16/2024 12:25am
r_outsider wrote:
Theft by fraud from dealers happens a lot more than you'd think. Kind of surprised someone bothered wasting their time running a scam like that for...

Theft by fraud from dealers happens a lot more than you'd think. Kind of surprised someone bothered wasting their time running a scam like that for a dirt bike, usually it's for high-end vehicles that are on the water for the middle east and Asia before anyone realizes what happened.

4 out of 5 ain’t bad.

2
7eleven
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12/16/2024 6:30am
What had happened was dealer sold the bike, didn’t want to record taxes and/ or pay taxes on the sale, all while having it in demo...

What had happened was dealer sold the bike, didn’t want to record taxes and/ or pay taxes on the sale, all while having it in demo mode, so when bike was out away from dealer stark probably thought oh it’s just the dealer riding it or demo’ing it.


Then after said bike was sold and dude goes to unlock it from demo mode, stark probably got in touch with dealer and said did you sell this unit cause if so we got to notify the gov and if so you will have to pay taxes on that sale, and dealer said “hell nah” cause they probably sold it too cheap, then reported it stolen.

There's a demo mode? You're gaslighting here, homie. 

1

The Shop

rogers
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12/16/2024 7:36am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2024 7:37am
soggy wrote:
Yea this is fucked. That dealer had no right to take that bike back.  Of course if stark or the dealer wouldn’t unlock it it’s a...

Yea this is fucked. That dealer had no right to take that bike back.  Of course if stark or the dealer wouldn’t unlock it it’s a 260# paper weight. 

mrpip wrote:

Yeah, it definitely was a shitty feeling! Hoping to have some more updates tomorrow. Hopefully good ones!🤞🏻

I don't know if this has been mentioned but you can also sue in Civil Court without a lawyer. You have a slam dunk case. All you need is to get the person served by a process server, or the Sherriffs or by youself and a witness.

Once you win you can put a lien on virtually everyting he owns, then if he does not pay, the police will collect the items you put a lien on. I have done this exact thing before twice and easily won both cases.

 

1
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soggy
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12/16/2024 7:43am
Tryhard wrote:
I dealt with a similar, but no so similar issue a couple year ago with a so called "sandbox friend". Had some vehicles i was going...

I dealt with a similar, but no so similar issue a couple year ago with a so called "sandbox friend". Had some vehicles i was going to work on, dropped them off unannounced, they weren't as described, not worth fixing. 2 year later, assessment time came around i needed them removed, as some drama as to why i had not touched them had come up " people with accountability issues man facepalm ". I wanted them gone and gave him 90 days to do so. He did not remove them, so I used a 100% legit abandoned title service here in my state. I contacted the guy and offered to sell him the vehicles back for the exact amount I had paid the titling service to do the process, not my time or effort included. I basically stated to him that i just wanted them removed and thought that would be doing the right thing. He declined and accused me of blackmail, and an auto theft. Contacted the police, and it was on from there, I had to prove my innocence. I rightfully did, and guess what the dmv investigator was as well on my side. I deeply encourage you to contact a dmv investigator at your local state police department precent, to find out if the title was indeed legit or not. They will have record of the transfer. Most local police do not have access to those origination documents. They are required to investigate your matter. I would in return file your own complaint against the seller, and possibly the dealer. This will indeed have the state police crawling up both of their asses. 

The moral of my TLDR story is, the dealer may have been done wrong and fully issued a pink slip, and may be claiming its fake, but the state police can tell you if it is fake or not and was actually issued but claiming it is fake because terms of the sale were broken afterward. Which is not your fault.  Local police are required to investigate every matter. If someone said you have stolen property, and you are willing to turn it over. OfCourse they were there when you got there. Who knows that type of story they dealer may have provided them with, to attempt to retract their bad decision. You can make false accusations against anyone in the USA. More times or not, it will be you proving your innocence. 

Sounds like solid advice. 

MxAddic
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12/16/2024 8:45am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2024 8:50am
rogers wrote:
I don't know if this has been mentioned but you can also sue in Civil Court without a lawyer. You have a slam dunk case. All...

I don't know if this has been mentioned but you can also sue in Civil Court without a lawyer. You have a slam dunk case. All you need is to get the person served by a process server, or the Sherriffs or by youself and a witness.

Once you win you can put a lien on virtually everyting he owns, then if he does not pay, the police will collect the items you put a lien on. I have done this exact thing before twice and easily won both cases.

 

The problem is I don't see how he wins against Shawn because the title is legit just as the detective can't charge him with dealing in stolen goods

1
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GrapeApe
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12/16/2024 10:59am
rogers wrote:
I don't know if this has been mentioned but you can also sue in Civil Court without a lawyer. You have a slam dunk case. All...

I don't know if this has been mentioned but you can also sue in Civil Court without a lawyer. You have a slam dunk case. All you need is to get the person served by a process server, or the Sherriffs or by youself and a witness.

Once you win you can put a lien on virtually everyting he owns, then if he does not pay, the police will collect the items you put a lien on. I have done this exact thing before twice and easily won both cases.

 

MxAddic wrote:
The problem is I don't see how he wins against Shawn because the title is legit just as the detective can't charge him with dealing in...

The problem is I don't see how he wins against Shawn because the title is legit just as the detective can't charge him with dealing in stolen goods

I may have missed it but do we know whose name is on the title? I'm assuming the fictitious buyer's not Shawn's? Also do we know how the fictitious buyer got the bike? Counterfeit check, fraudulent credit app, or . . . ? 

Depending on how the fictitious buyer obtained possession Shawn can still be charged with receiving stolen goods. He can also be charged as a co-conspirator or, if they really want to party, organized crime.

In a civil case Shawn would have to defend his right to title in the goods he was selling, and if my interpretation of the events is correct he will lose..

1
MxAddic
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12/16/2024 11:05am
GrapeApe wrote:
I may have missed it but do we know whose name is on the title? I'm assuming the fictitious buyer's not Shawn's? Also do we know...

I may have missed it but do we know whose name is on the title? I'm assuming the fictitious buyer's not Shawn's? Also do we know how the fictitious buyer got the bike? Counterfeit check, fraudulent credit app, or . . . ? 

Depending on how the fictitious buyer obtained possession Shawn can still be charged with receiving stolen goods. He can also be charged as a co-conspirator or, if they really want to party, organized crime.

In a civil case Shawn would have to defend his right to title in the goods he was selling, and if my interpretation of the events is correct he will lose..

Are you going to represent him for free?

14
GrapeApe
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12/16/2024 11:12am
GrapeApe wrote:
I may have missed it but do we know whose name is on the title? I'm assuming the fictitious buyer's not Shawn's? Also do we know...

I may have missed it but do we know whose name is on the title? I'm assuming the fictitious buyer's not Shawn's? Also do we know how the fictitious buyer got the bike? Counterfeit check, fraudulent credit app, or . . . ? 

Depending on how the fictitious buyer obtained possession Shawn can still be charged with receiving stolen goods. He can also be charged as a co-conspirator or, if they really want to party, organized crime.

In a civil case Shawn would have to defend his right to title in the goods he was selling, and if my interpretation of the events is correct he will lose..

MxAddic wrote:

Are you going to represent him for free?

Huh?

1
12/16/2024 12:15pm
What had happened was dealer sold the bike, didn’t want to record taxes and/ or pay taxes on the sale, all while having it in demo...

What had happened was dealer sold the bike, didn’t want to record taxes and/ or pay taxes on the sale, all while having it in demo mode, so when bike was out away from dealer stark probably thought oh it’s just the dealer riding it or demo’ing it.


Then after said bike was sold and dude goes to unlock it from demo mode, stark probably got in touch with dealer and said did you sell this unit cause if so we got to notify the gov and if so you will have to pay taxes on that sale, and dealer said “hell nah” cause they probably sold it too cheap, then reported it stolen.

7eleven wrote:

There's a demo mode? You're gaslighting here, homie. 

If there Can be a regular mode, there can be a demo mode.


I’m pretty sure ktm did something like that a few years back where motorcycle would run for 40min untill dealer activated it.

2
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dang472
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12/16/2024 12:40pm

Not specific to Stark, but I have worked at a dealer that played money games with flooring and registering. Empty crates disguised as unsold units. Waiting 60-90 days to register with the state because they used the sales tax to pay the bills. I’m sure that was the original reason KTM had the dealer mode for the ECU. No BS way of knowing when a unit was sold to a customer.

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1
yak651
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12/16/2024 1:57pm
dang472 wrote:
Not specific to Stark, but I have worked at a dealer that played money games with flooring and registering. Empty crates disguised as unsold units. Waiting...

Not specific to Stark, but I have worked at a dealer that played money games with flooring and registering. Empty crates disguised as unsold units. Waiting 60-90 days to register with the state because they used the sales tax to pay the bills. I’m sure that was the original reason KTM had the dealer mode for the ECU. No BS way of knowing when a unit was sold to a customer.

I assumed it was to deter bike thefts from dealers, the bikes wouldn’t run until unlocked (or minimal run time for set up purposes)

Tim507
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12/16/2024 1:59pm
dang472 wrote:
Not specific to Stark, but I have worked at a dealer that played money games with flooring and registering. Empty crates disguised as unsold units. Waiting...

Not specific to Stark, but I have worked at a dealer that played money games with flooring and registering. Empty crates disguised as unsold units. Waiting 60-90 days to register with the state because they used the sales tax to pay the bills. I’m sure that was the original reason KTM had the dealer mode for the ECU. No BS way of knowing when a unit was sold to a customer.

Truth, when I left the US Army my first job was with Seattle 1st Nationa Bank as Flooring Inspector and a knock on the door loan collector. I had the 5 counties north of Seattle;  RV, Mobile Homes, Motorcycles, Boat, Car and Truck Dealers. Was a hella of an education while only being 22 years young. Company car, allowances and I even took some college classes on their time as long as I delivered the inspections in a timely manner. I've seen most everything that the dealer can pull. The rule of thumb was hand on the item or got o the GM and get a check(s). The other Key was no notice of arrival and mix the schedule up!!  From there I ended up in Dealer Finance and when I left Seafirst, I ran a Lease Compnay for a major autodealer for several years. The inventory games and charades never end in that world!

4
12/16/2024 3:12pm
GrapeApe wrote:
I may have missed it but do we know whose name is on the title? I'm assuming the fictitious buyer's not Shawn's? Also do we know...

I may have missed it but do we know whose name is on the title? I'm assuming the fictitious buyer's not Shawn's? Also do we know how the fictitious buyer got the bike? Counterfeit check, fraudulent credit app, or . . . ? 

Depending on how the fictitious buyer obtained possession Shawn can still be charged with receiving stolen goods. He can also be charged as a co-conspirator or, if they really want to party, organized crime.

In a civil case Shawn would have to defend his right to title in the goods he was selling, and if my interpretation of the events is correct he will lose..

MxAddic wrote:

Are you going to represent him for free?

GrapeApe wrote:

Huh?

Don't mind him. He was behaving for a bit on this thread but now is back to usual. Spouting random "facts" that contradict what the OP actual said multiple times lol

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MxAddic
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12/16/2024 6:25pm Edited Date/Time 12/16/2024 6:28pm
MxAddic wrote:

Are you going to represent him for free?

GrapeApe wrote:

Huh?

Don't mind him. He was behaving for a bit on this thread but now is back to usual. Spouting random "facts" that contradict what the OP...

Don't mind him. He was behaving for a bit on this thread but now is back to usual. Spouting random "facts" that contradict what the OP actual said multiple times lol

Sorry if you are confused. I was speaking to the fellow that got jazzed for $9K, not Shawn. I personally can't understand the grape god getting him all ginned up to pay an attorney only to get another run around.

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mrpip
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12/16/2024 6:30pm

Hey, I just wanted to throw out a quick update, although it’s not much. 
It was a day of “no news yet” but tomorrow morning I head to the police department, DMV and courthouse in Orange County (about 1.5hr drive because we have to make it convenient for the defendant!🙄) to get everything rolling. I already tried with my local police department, but that was a complete waste of time.

This really fuckin sucks because I have much better things to do with my time and just the word “lawsuit” makes my skin crawl as I’ve never been that guy, but I either want my bike or my money back and apparently this is the way to go about it. 
And to clarify, the only one so far to basically tell me to “pound sand” is the seller, Shawn Guerette. Everyone else involved has been super cool and helpful. 

I sincerely appreciate everyone’s well wishes and also the posts giving advice and getting me thinking outside the box. This bullshit is all new to me but I’m keeping my fingers crossed that doing the right thing and going through the motions (although it’s killing me at times!) will pan out for me in the end. 
Thanks again guys! 👍

37
Philo Beddoe
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12/16/2024 6:38pm

Right on, man! Keep us posted.

1
12/16/2024 7:00pm
mrpip wrote:
Hey, I just wanted to throw out a quick update, although it’s not much. It was a day of “no news yet” but tomorrow morning I head...

Hey, I just wanted to throw out a quick update, although it’s not much. 
It was a day of “no news yet” but tomorrow morning I head to the police department, DMV and courthouse in Orange County (about 1.5hr drive because we have to make it convenient for the defendant!🙄) to get everything rolling. I already tried with my local police department, but that was a complete waste of time.

This really fuckin sucks because I have much better things to do with my time and just the word “lawsuit” makes my skin crawl as I’ve never been that guy, but I either want my bike or my money back and apparently this is the way to go about it. 
And to clarify, the only one so far to basically tell me to “pound sand” is the seller, Shawn Guerette. Everyone else involved has been super cool and helpful. 

I sincerely appreciate everyone’s well wishes and also the posts giving advice and getting me thinking outside the box. This bullshit is all new to me but I’m keeping my fingers crossed that doing the right thing and going through the motions (although it’s killing me at times!) will pan out for me in the end. 
Thanks again guys! 👍

Give 'em HELL!, brother.

3
12/16/2024 7:41pm
mrpip wrote:
Hey, I just wanted to throw out a quick update, although it’s not much. It was a day of “no news yet” but tomorrow morning I head...

Hey, I just wanted to throw out a quick update, although it’s not much. 
It was a day of “no news yet” but tomorrow morning I head to the police department, DMV and courthouse in Orange County (about 1.5hr drive because we have to make it convenient for the defendant!🙄) to get everything rolling. I already tried with my local police department, but that was a complete waste of time.

This really fuckin sucks because I have much better things to do with my time and just the word “lawsuit” makes my skin crawl as I’ve never been that guy, but I either want my bike or my money back and apparently this is the way to go about it. 
And to clarify, the only one so far to basically tell me to “pound sand” is the seller, Shawn Guerette. Everyone else involved has been super cool and helpful. 

I sincerely appreciate everyone’s well wishes and also the posts giving advice and getting me thinking outside the box. This bullshit is all new to me but I’m keeping my fingers crossed that doing the right thing and going through the motions (although it’s killing me at times!) will pan out for me in the end. 
Thanks again guys! 👍

Do the right thing for yourself, whatever that may be. Don’t listen to the monkeys on here flinging poo( myself included). It sounds like you are already doing what you feel is best so I hope that makes the best of this horrible situation. At the end of the day, you can only look at yourself and feel good if you feel you did the right thing. Good luck!!

1
MxAddic
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12/16/2024 7:48pm
Splat03 wrote:
Do the right thing for yourself, whatever that may be. Don’t listen to the monkeys on here flinging poo( myself included). It sounds like you are...

Do the right thing for yourself, whatever that may be. Don’t listen to the monkeys on here flinging poo( myself included). It sounds like you are already doing what you feel is best so I hope that makes the best of this horrible situation. At the end of the day, you can only look at yourself and feel good if you feel you did the right thing. Good luck!!

This fellow has Karma on side side and it is omnipotent.

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1
12/16/2024 8:03pm
MxAddic wrote:

This fellow has Karma on side side and it is omnipotent.

Most of the time it is, every once in a while it feels like you can’t get karma to even look your way. He sounds pretty positive all things considered. 

2
mrpip
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12/16/2024 8:59pm Edited Date/Time 12/16/2024 9:00pm
Gary Duck wrote:

There's some super-smart Columbo MF'r in here, I'm still perplexed that we haven't found the 22 tablecloths yet... 

Oh and btw, this made me laugh out loud!🙌

Thanks for brightening my day!

I guess I’ve been around here longer than I thought!😂

7
12/16/2024 9:17pm

where is the bike that you paid for now?
 

soggy
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12/17/2024 7:02am

where is the bike that you paid for now?
 

The original dealer. 

1
12/17/2024 7:43am
rogers wrote:
I don't know if this has been mentioned but you can also sue in Civil Court without a lawyer. You have a slam dunk case. All...

I don't know if this has been mentioned but you can also sue in Civil Court without a lawyer. You have a slam dunk case. All you need is to get the person served by a process server, or the Sherriffs or by youself and a witness.

Once you win you can put a lien on virtually everyting he owns, then if he does not pay, the police will collect the items you put a lien on. I have done this exact thing before twice and easily won both cases.

 

MxAddic wrote:
The problem is I don't see how he wins against Shawn because the title is legit just as the detective can't charge him with dealing in...

The problem is I don't see how he wins against Shawn because the title is legit just as the detective can't charge him with dealing in stolen goods

That detective probably doesn’t want to be bothered with it. 

I don’t know the law in CA, but here we have an unfair trade practices act that allows for claims with multiplied damages against business that use fraud or misrepresentation in selling consumer goods. The whole point of the damages scheme is to bring claims out of small claims court and make the damages high enough to hurt the business. 

That is to say, this stark scam has probably created significantly more liability for that business than simply the selling price of the bike. 

You should be able to consult an attorney for free to see if it’s worth a shot, and you can probably get someone who will take the case on contingency. 

 

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1
mx317
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TN US
12/17/2024 8:01am
What had happened was dealer sold the bike, didn’t want to record taxes and/ or pay taxes on the sale, all while having it in demo...

What had happened was dealer sold the bike, didn’t want to record taxes and/ or pay taxes on the sale, all while having it in demo mode, so when bike was out away from dealer stark probably thought oh it’s just the dealer riding it or demo’ing it.


Then after said bike was sold and dude goes to unlock it from demo mode, stark probably got in touch with dealer and said did you sell this unit cause if so we got to notify the gov and if so you will have to pay taxes on that sale, and dealer said “hell nah” cause they probably sold it too cheap, then reported it stolen.

7eleven wrote:

There's a demo mode? You're gaslighting here, homie. 

If there Can be a regular mode, there can be a demo mode.I’m pretty sure ktm did something like that a few years back where motorcycle...

If there Can be a regular mode, there can be a demo mode.


I’m pretty sure ktm did something like that a few years back where motorcycle would run for 40min untill dealer activated it.

You are 100% correct on the KTM dealer demo mode. If they didn't hook it up to their laptop and warranty register it through it wouldn't run at all. They could do a demo mode and it would run for an hour if memory serves. At the point of sale is when they would register it with KTM and you were good to go. I would assume Stark could have the very same thing or even something more sophisticated. 

4
mrpip
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12/17/2024 1:14pm

where is the bike that you paid for now?
 

soggy wrote:

The original dealer. 

Correct. 

12/17/2024 3:57pm

Lots of Shawnanigans going on here. TY TY

4
brocster
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12/17/2024 7:14pm

Lots of Shawnanigans going on here. TY TY

Yep. Original dealer out of nothing, Shawn out of nothing. Only person out of something is the dude that paid for a bike that he doesn’t have in his possession nor the money he slung for it.  Fukn sucks!  Keep fighting man, good things come to those who wait. 

3

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