More bad news on a track closure

BoxcarWilly
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11/22/2024 6:21am

Does X-brand still advertise with Vital?

LOL. I've got the X-brand banner up right now at the top of this thread.

yak651 wrote:

I guess we probably shouldn’t ask about this 🤷‍♂️

Of course I know the answer. It's just a morality litmus test. 

Why doesn't the sport grow? We have people cannibalizing it from the inside. 

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ML512
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11/22/2024 7:05am
ML512 wrote:
What is the point of me starting shit with my friend on his show? I can't change anything that has happened here. I really don't get...

What is the point of me starting shit with my friend on his show? I can't change anything that has happened here. I really don't get what is being asked of me here.

Does Vital plan to continue to advertise with X-Brand? 

EKS Brand advertises with with Vital MX, not the other way around.

If they want to continue to advertise, that’s up to them.

Just going to note here, if an advertiser had pull on how they’re perceived publicly in the site, then why would a very large and negative thread about them still exist? People make choices, some of those choices come with criticism or consequences. This thread is a prime example of that. Nothing has been deleted (outside I think one post that tried to post Rich’s home address which is kinda sketchy).

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7
soggy
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11/22/2024 7:49am
LungButter wrote:

You're not wrong unfortunately.

Insurance is gonna be the end of our sport, probably sooner than most of us realize.

What’s your timeline?

cmotodad
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11/22/2024 7:57am Edited Date/Time 11/22/2024 7:58am

I taught my kids from day 1, You are who you associate with. Holds true as adults too

5

The Shop

BoxcarWilly
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11/22/2024 8:02am Edited Date/Time 11/23/2024 8:39am
ML512 wrote:
EKS Brand advertises with with Vital MX, not the other way around.If they want to continue to advertise, that’s up to them.Just going to note here...

EKS Brand advertises with with Vital MX, not the other way around.

If they want to continue to advertise, that’s up to them.

Just going to note here, if an advertiser had pull on how they’re perceived publicly in the site, then why would a very large and negative thread about them still exist? People make choices, some of those choices come with criticism or consequences. This thread is a prime example of that. Nothing has been deleted (outside I think one post that tried to post Rich’s home address which is kinda sketchy).

Would you take money from the Taliban and allow them to advertise? 

It has nothing to do with how X-Brand is perceived, it is how Vital plans to continue taking their money, and advertise their products, knowing how detrimental they've been to our sport. Do you not think what they did is morally wrong? 

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9
11/22/2024 8:03am
Would you take money from the Taliban and allow them to advertise? It has nothing to do with how X-Brand is perceived, it is how Vital plans...

Would you take money from the Taliban and allow them to advertise? 

It has nothing to do with how X-Brand is perceived, it is how Vital plans to continue taking their money, and advertise their products, knowing how detrimental they've been to our sport. Do you not think what they did is morally wrong? 

Give it a rest… geez

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12
11/22/2024 8:06am
ML512 wrote:
EKS Brand advertises with with Vital MX, not the other way around.If they want to continue to advertise, that’s up to them.Just going to note here...

EKS Brand advertises with with Vital MX, not the other way around.

If they want to continue to advertise, that’s up to them.

Just going to note here, if an advertiser had pull on how they’re perceived publicly in the site, then why would a very large and negative thread about them still exist? People make choices, some of those choices come with criticism or consequences. This thread is a prime example of that. Nothing has been deleted (outside I think one post that tried to post Rich’s home address which is kinda sketchy).

Would you take money from the Taliban and allow them to advertise? It has nothing to do with how X-Brand is perceived, it is how Vital plans...

Would you take money from the Taliban and allow them to advertise? 

It has nothing to do with how X-Brand is perceived, it is how Vital plans to continue taking their money, and advertise their products, knowing how detrimental they've been to our sport. Do you not think what they did is morally wrong? 

Chances are good that the contract was in place before Cooksey brought this story to light.  Either way, ML is the editor and probably doesn't have anything to do with selling advertising.

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1
11/22/2024 8:13am Edited Date/Time 11/22/2024 8:14am

I hope other tracks are aware of this situation and don’t allow entry to their facilities in the future to the plaintiff’s. Perhaps “blacklisted” 🤔

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BoxcarWilly
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11/22/2024 8:16am
Chances are good that the contract was in place before Cooksey brought this story to light.  Either way, ML is the editor and probably doesn't have...

Chances are good that the contract was in place before Cooksey brought this story to light.  Either way, ML is the editor and probably doesn't have anything to do with selling advertising.

I know, I'm being needlessly antagonistic. It's not ML's fault. It's just frustrating how business and morals do not align. It's not just Vital, either. 

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1
Johnny2laps
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Big Bear, CA US
11/22/2024 8:16am
ML512 wrote:
What is the point of me starting shit with my friend on his show? I can't change anything that has happened here. I really don't get...

What is the point of me starting shit with my friend on his show? I can't change anything that has happened here. I really don't get what is being asked of me here.

Does Vital plan to continue to advertise with X-Brand? 

ML512 wrote:
EKS Brand advertises with with Vital MX, not the other way around.If they want to continue to advertise, that’s up to them.Just going to note here...

EKS Brand advertises with with Vital MX, not the other way around.

If they want to continue to advertise, that’s up to them.

Just going to note here, if an advertiser had pull on how they’re perceived publicly in the site, then why would a very large and negative thread about them still exist? People make choices, some of those choices come with criticism or consequences. This thread is a prime example of that. Nothing has been deleted (outside I think one post that tried to post Rich’s home address which is kinda sketchy).

Is Vital Rich's website?

MXA has a strict "no girly ads" policy. Its up to MXA to decide what goes into their magazine.

Its up to Vital to decide what shows up on the website. Do you accept ads for porn sites? Do you accept ads from a guy who successfully killed an mx track?

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2
captmoto
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11/22/2024 8:17am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
At the end of the day, if insurance companies are paying out more in losses than they are taking in in premiums, bad things are going...

At the end of the day, if insurance companies are paying out more in losses than they are taking in in premiums, bad things are going to happen. And it’s ugly right now.  Summer valid, but some are ridiculous. For example, kids steals an ATV wrecks the atv and hurts himself and sues and wins because they shouldn’t have left the key in the Atv where he could steal it. Dumbass liberal judges and juries are putting us in this position. No two wheel motorsports activity in Ireland for the last year because no one can get insurance anymore.

From another Slow Old Guy. Here in California insurance companies are taking a beating from brush fire loses. 240+ homes in Camarillo a couple weeks ago. Probably homes in the million $ range. Not so many in the Bridge or Line fire in Aug/Sept. but in the last 20 years there have been some severe losses. Aside from the fires, when we get enough rain, comes debris flow that damage homes in the same area. So after all that, homeowner insurance has sky rocketed and there are cancellations if there is a tree too close to your house. 

Anyway, yada, yada, yada. Shit rolls down hill and insurance companies are doing all they can to cut losses anywhere they can.

More yada, yada, yada.

Throw in the east coast and midwest losses from hurricanes and tornados and moto doesn't stand a chance. Which is bullshit because moto is a just a pinpoint on their profit and loss balance.

 

2
disbanded
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11/22/2024 8:36am

It's like if the Sierra club started sponsoring this site.  They are out to destroy the sport, and so is someone that sues a track.  Sick world.

7
11/22/2024 8:37am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
At the end of the day, if insurance companies are paying out more in losses than they are taking in in premiums, bad things are going...

At the end of the day, if insurance companies are paying out more in losses than they are taking in in premiums, bad things are going to happen. And it’s ugly right now.  Summer valid, but some are ridiculous. For example, kids steals an ATV wrecks the atv and hurts himself and sues and wins because they shouldn’t have left the key in the Atv where he could steal it. Dumbass liberal judges and juries are putting us in this position. No two wheel motorsports activity in Ireland for the last year because no one can get insurance anymore.

captmoto wrote:
From another Slow Old Guy. Here in California insurance companies are taking a beating from brush fire loses. 240+ homes in Camarillo a couple weeks ago...

From another Slow Old Guy. Here in California insurance companies are taking a beating from brush fire loses. 240+ homes in Camarillo a couple weeks ago. Probably homes in the million $ range. Not so many in the Bridge or Line fire in Aug/Sept. but in the last 20 years there have been some severe losses. Aside from the fires, when we get enough rain, comes debris flow that damage homes in the same area. So after all that, homeowner insurance has sky rocketed and there are cancellations if there is a tree too close to your house. 

Anyway, yada, yada, yada. Shit rolls down hill and insurance companies are doing all they can to cut losses anywhere they can.

More yada, yada, yada.

Throw in the east coast and midwest losses from hurricanes and tornados and moto doesn't stand a chance. Which is bullshit because moto is a just a pinpoint on their profit and loss balance.

 

I help run a non-profit track.  To the best of my knowledge, there are only 2 companies in the US still writing policies for motocross tracks.  Those companies specialize in event insurance, so they are likely not involved in homeowner claims for natural disasters.  The costs are going up dramatically, but these increases are due to lawsuits like RT’s, not hurricanes or fires.  State Farm and Allstate don’t insure tracks.

10
ML512
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11/22/2024 8:51am Edited Date/Time 11/22/2024 8:52am
Is Vital Rich's website?MXA has a strict "no girly ads" policy. Its up to MXA to decide what goes into their magazine.Its up to Vital to...

Is Vital Rich's website?

MXA has a strict "no girly ads" policy. Its up to MXA to decide what goes into their magazine.

Its up to Vital to decide what shows up on the website. Do you accept ads for porn sites? Do you accept ads from a guy who successfully killed an mx track?

I get where you're coming from but it's a bit of an exaggeration between the two situations, but some see it as black and white the same. I get it.

As stated above, the track is unable to find insurance in a price range that works for their operating costs. Is Rich's lawsuit part of why premiums have gone up? I can't fully answer that, I'm not sure anyone can. Is it part of the reason? Possibly, so are all the other injuries and lawsuits over the past decade that keeps driving up insurance costs.

I get the public out cry in this situation. Again, I have a very lax policy here. Everyone can talk about it and discuss and I try to tackle questions when directed at me.

If someone feels strongly about the situation they can speak, not buy EKS Brand product, or even share their opinion to people who have any sort of business association with them. Which is clearly happening here. I read it all, I keep an eye on it.

16
Johnny2laps
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Big Bear, CA US
11/22/2024 9:01am
Is Vital Rich's website?MXA has a strict "no girly ads" policy. Its up to MXA to decide what goes into their magazine.Its up to Vital to...

Is Vital Rich's website?

MXA has a strict "no girly ads" policy. Its up to MXA to decide what goes into their magazine.

Its up to Vital to decide what shows up on the website. Do you accept ads for porn sites? Do you accept ads from a guy who successfully killed an mx track?

ML512 wrote:
I get where you're coming from but it's a bit of an exaggeration between the two situations, but some see it as black and white the...

I get where you're coming from but it's a bit of an exaggeration between the two situations, but some see it as black and white the same. I get it.

As stated above, the track is unable to find insurance in a price range that works for their operating costs. Is Rich's lawsuit part of why premiums have gone up? I can't fully answer that, I'm not sure anyone can. Is it part of the reason? Possibly, so are all the other injuries and lawsuits over the past decade that keeps driving up insurance costs.

I get the public out cry in this situation. Again, I have a very lax policy here. Everyone can talk about it and discuss and I try to tackle questions when directed at me.

If someone feels strongly about the situation they can speak, not buy EKS Brand product, or even share their opinion to people who have any sort of business association with them. Which is clearly happening here. I read it all, I keep an eye on it.

Okay. Fair enough. It's your website and business.

I don't know all the details either, but I would certainly bet that Rich's lawsuit is a big part of LACR's insurance issues.

Here's a good article on the insurance issues in California if anyone wants to get further in the weeds. It's not a simple problem.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/california-homeowners-are-losing-their-insurance-heres-why

 

Tortuga
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west coast, CA US
11/22/2024 9:01am Edited Date/Time 11/22/2024 9:02am
yak651 wrote:
While that is true it’s more relevant that this guy is responsible for this closing

While that is true it’s more relevant that this guy is responsible for this closing

IMG 1640 1.jpeg?VersionId=auqrR.
Tortuga wrote:

Wrong. 

Brad460 wrote:
“Wrong.” Is all you have to say? Wow we are all convinced now😅Communicating like a toddler isn’t going to sway people.How about articulate exactly why he...

“Wrong.” Is all you have to say? Wow we are all convinced now😅

Communicating like a toddler isn’t going to sway people.

How about articulate exactly why he and everyone else is wrong? 

Articulate what? I was responding to the guy saying Rich Taylor was responsible for closing LACR….which is asinine to think.  While I’m sure it didn’t help matters, it was just a piece of a large problem. The biggest problem is the photo of Gruesome, who invites and encourages more and more litigation.  

17
LungButter
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11/22/2024 9:05am
Tortuga wrote:
Articulate what? I was responding to the guy saying Rich Taylor was responsible for closing LACR….which is asinine to think.  While I’m sure it didn’t help...

Articulate what? I was responding to the guy saying Rich Taylor was responsible for closing LACR….which is asinine to think.  While I’m sure it didn’t help matters, it was just a piece of a large problem. The biggest problem is the photo of Gruesome, who invites and encourages more and more litigation.  

So you're saying that Newsome personally told Rich Taylor to sue LACR?

2
5
Tortuga
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west coast, CA US
11/22/2024 9:07am Edited Date/Time 11/22/2024 9:10am
Tortuga wrote:
Articulate what? I was responding to the guy saying Rich Taylor was responsible for closing LACR….which is asinine to think.  While I’m sure it didn’t help...

Articulate what? I was responding to the guy saying Rich Taylor was responsible for closing LACR….which is asinine to think.  While I’m sure it didn’t help matters, it was just a piece of a large problem. The biggest problem is the photo of Gruesome, who invites and encourages more and more litigation.  

LungButter wrote:

So you're saying that Newsome personally told Rich Taylor to sue LACR?

Perfect. As I said, articulate what. 

Allowing these types of lawsuits to see light is the biggest problem. Gruesome encourages litigation, for just about anything. Insurance companies can’t keep up. 

9
11/22/2024 9:13am
LungButter wrote:

So you're saying that Newsome personally told Rich Taylor to sue LACR?

C’mon man… 

1
spimx
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Port Isabel, TX US
11/22/2024 9:31am

South Texas is losing 2 tracks soon. Ddmx and Hidden Oak both for sale. Not enough riders who wants a fuel injected titanium quick shift 450 to ride no where local and 2 hrs for a low budget track barely surviving. Anyone got a solution for this? 

1
1
mxxcdez
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socal, CA US
11/22/2024 9:32am
spimx wrote:
South Texas is losing 2 tracks soon. Ddmx and Hidden Oak both for sale. Not enough riders who wants a fuel injected titanium quick shift 450...

South Texas is losing 2 tracks soon. Ddmx and Hidden Oak both for sale. Not enough riders who wants a fuel injected titanium quick shift 450 to ride no where local and 2 hrs for a low budget track barely surviving. Anyone got a solution for this? 

And 3Palms has its own issues, which is why they are up for sale, correct?

1
Jettsonator
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Murrieta, CA US
11/22/2024 9:41am

Man, so bummed I can't buy EKS googles anymore. Said no one......

8
LungButter
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11/22/2024 9:44am

Man, so bummed I can't buy EKS googles anymore. Said no one......

The company wouldn't exist still if people weren't buying them.

11/22/2024 9:54am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
At the end of the day, if insurance companies are paying out more in losses than they are taking in in premiums, bad things are going...

At the end of the day, if insurance companies are paying out more in losses than they are taking in in premiums, bad things are going to happen. And it’s ugly right now.  Summer valid, but some are ridiculous. For example, kids steals an ATV wrecks the atv and hurts himself and sues and wins because they shouldn’t have left the key in the Atv where he could steal it. Dumbass liberal judges and juries are putting us in this position. No two wheel motorsports activity in Ireland for the last year because no one can get insurance anymore.

captmoto wrote:
From another Slow Old Guy. Here in California insurance companies are taking a beating from brush fire loses. 240+ homes in Camarillo a couple weeks ago...

From another Slow Old Guy. Here in California insurance companies are taking a beating from brush fire loses. 240+ homes in Camarillo a couple weeks ago. Probably homes in the million $ range. Not so many in the Bridge or Line fire in Aug/Sept. but in the last 20 years there have been some severe losses. Aside from the fires, when we get enough rain, comes debris flow that damage homes in the same area. So after all that, homeowner insurance has sky rocketed and there are cancellations if there is a tree too close to your house. 

Anyway, yada, yada, yada. Shit rolls down hill and insurance companies are doing all they can to cut losses anywhere they can.

More yada, yada, yada.

Throw in the east coast and midwest losses from hurricanes and tornados and moto doesn't stand a chance. Which is bullshit because moto is a just a pinpoint on their profit and loss balance.

 

I agree with everything you said. I am in the industry, and we’re seeing increases across the board. I primarily specialize in Healthcare, and we’re seeing increases in Employment Practices Liability (Harassment, Wrongful Termination, etc.) and Cyber (Ransomware, etc.).

Litigation and massive verdicts are a significant contributor, and then you have property losses along with auto, which everyone knows have gone through the roof.

It’s getting difficult and expensive for insurers to obtain reinsurance. There is a lot more behind the scenes, but in short, it sucks that there are a lot of people who lack integrity and seek an easy payday. I see it often. Insurers then have to spend on defense costs and, at times, huge settlements up to policy limits.

2
11/22/2024 9:57am
SlowOldGuy wrote:
At the end of the day, if insurance companies are paying out more in losses than they are taking in in premiums, bad things are going...

At the end of the day, if insurance companies are paying out more in losses than they are taking in in premiums, bad things are going to happen. And it’s ugly right now.  Summer valid, but some are ridiculous. For example, kids steals an ATV wrecks the atv and hurts himself and sues and wins because they shouldn’t have left the key in the Atv where he could steal it. Dumbass liberal judges and juries are putting us in this position. No two wheel motorsports activity in Ireland for the last year because no one can get insurance anymore.

captmoto wrote:
From another Slow Old Guy. Here in California insurance companies are taking a beating from brush fire loses. 240+ homes in Camarillo a couple weeks ago...

From another Slow Old Guy. Here in California insurance companies are taking a beating from brush fire loses. 240+ homes in Camarillo a couple weeks ago. Probably homes in the million $ range. Not so many in the Bridge or Line fire in Aug/Sept. but in the last 20 years there have been some severe losses. Aside from the fires, when we get enough rain, comes debris flow that damage homes in the same area. So after all that, homeowner insurance has sky rocketed and there are cancellations if there is a tree too close to your house. 

Anyway, yada, yada, yada. Shit rolls down hill and insurance companies are doing all they can to cut losses anywhere they can.

More yada, yada, yada.

Throw in the east coast and midwest losses from hurricanes and tornados and moto doesn't stand a chance. Which is bullshit because moto is a just a pinpoint on their profit and loss balance.

 

I help run a non-profit track.  To the best of my knowledge, there are only 2 companies in the US still writing policies for motocross tracks...

I help run a non-profit track.  To the best of my knowledge, there are only 2 companies in the US still writing policies for motocross tracks.  Those companies specialize in event insurance, so they are likely not involved in homeowner claims for natural disasters.  The costs are going up dramatically, but these increases are due to lawsuits like RT’s, not hurricanes or fires.  State Farm and Allstate don’t insure tracks.

Yup. A track in CA (and mostly likely entire country) is being insured by a surplus lines insurance carrier who is non-admitted in CA. You go through a broker and a wholesaler to obtain coverage. Most people just think of the big names they see on TV lol. 

spimx
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Location
Port Isabel, TX US
11/22/2024 10:08am
spimx wrote:
South Texas is losing 2 tracks soon. Ddmx and Hidden Oak both for sale. Not enough riders who wants a fuel injected titanium quick shift 450...

South Texas is losing 2 tracks soon. Ddmx and Hidden Oak both for sale. Not enough riders who wants a fuel injected titanium quick shift 450 to ride no where local and 2 hrs for a low budget track barely surviving. Anyone got a solution for this? 

mxxcdez wrote:

And 3Palms has its own issues, which is why they are up for sale, correct?

Bad news for future motocross racers. Dave combs and Ama need to bring back 125s bring 450s down to 350 and the cost to entry the operating cost of travks and reducing injury all need to be addressed first in pro racing. 

6
Zacka 161
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Location
Mount Waverley, VIC AU
11/22/2024 11:02am

Welcome the ‘free market’


It’s only going to get ‘free-er’

3
8
LungButter
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Yellow Pine, ID US
11/22/2024 11:14am
Zacka 161 wrote:

Welcome the ‘free market’


It’s only going to get ‘free-er’

What is this even supposed to mean?

1
1
MxAddict14
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20
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Location
Redondo Beach, CA US
11/22/2024 6:05pm

Drive around and every other billboard has an advertisement for some ambulance chasing attorney.

That's the problem.  Insurers are getting killed by those greedy lawyers.

Tort reform is the only way this problem gets fixed.

8
Ob917
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1034
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9/29/2021
Location
Cardiff, CA US
11/22/2024 6:28pm
MxAddict14 wrote:
Drive around and every other billboard has an advertisement for some ambulance chasing attorney.That's the problem.  Insurers are getting killed by those greedy lawyers.Tort reform is...

Drive around and every other billboard has an advertisement for some ambulance chasing attorney.

That's the problem.  Insurers are getting killed by those greedy lawyers.

Tort reform is the only way this problem gets fixed.

I travel the US and you are right most billboards are some (truck crash accident etc) lawyer advertisement. Especially in the south and any other low income part of the country 

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