USA team protested Australia

ando
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So apparently the USA team saw Hunter and Prado wiping the start grate (I think for moto 3).  Rules are not clear on this and they asked for clarification prior to the race, they were told you can’t wipe the grate or gate.

They protested Hunter but not Prado, midway through the moto.  Hunter was told by FIM official he could wipe the grate.   Advice to USA was they were misinformed originally.

All according to Paul Peribijnos on Matthes’ Renthal Podcast.

Also Paul Peribijnos - “I hope Australia didn’t take offence to it”

 

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aeffertz
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10/8/2024 8:46pm

Interesting... If they thought it was against the rules, no harm-no foul in my opinion. They were close enough in points so I can see their justification. Is there some sort of monetary penalty for protesting if you're wrong on something like that?

I'm glad they are paying attention to stuff like that for future races, though. Which MXoN was it that team USA didn't realize you could swap a new tire after the sight lap and lined up with muddy tires? I think it was the same year they left the inside gate open because someone was standing by it.

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Elliot
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10/8/2024 8:52pm

The rules are not clear.

r 2
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cmotodad
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10/8/2024 8:57pm

The front of the gate is part of the starting gate. Seems clear to me

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10/8/2024 8:59pm

The rule says they are not allowed to touching the start gate, but it also says the rider is not allowed to enter the start mesh platform, every rider should have been disqualified when they rolled their bikes onto the start mesh!

https://www.fim-moto.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Documents/2024/2024_FIM_MXGP_MX2_WMX_MXoN_FIM_Junior_World_Championship_Cup_Regulations_13.06.2024_Update.pdf

image 573.png?VersionId=sSG9MG9j1
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The Shop

cmotodad
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10/8/2024 9:03pm

Maybe they need to re-write it to say clean the mesh but touching is touching.

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Soul Indigo
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10/8/2024 11:09pm
aeffertz wrote:
Interesting... If they thought it was against the rules, no harm-no foul in my opinion. They were close enough in points so I can see their...

Interesting... If they thought it was against the rules, no harm-no foul in my opinion. They were close enough in points so I can see their justification. Is there some sort of monetary penalty for protesting if you're wrong on something like that?

I'm glad they are paying attention to stuff like that for future races, though. Which MXoN was it that team USA didn't realize you could swap a new tire after the sight lap and lined up with muddy tires? I think it was the same year they left the inside gate open because someone was standing by it.

It’s InFront. It’s FIM. It’s pro racing. 

There is a 100% chance a fee is required to protest. 

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sumdood
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10/8/2024 11:10pm

 This is a little out there but I thought about it when the grates became popular. "What if" you took a piece of the grate material, heated it up till it was red hot and melted some grooves the exact shape as the grate into a brand new fresh tire and when the mechanic / rider rolled into their spot they made sure the grate lined up with the grooves and the tire countersunk into the holes. So for that first initial jump there'd be zero wheelspin on the grate. Would that be a legal tire modification ?  Or what if the mechanic snuck in a handheld torch and heated the gate just enough to melt into the back tire a little bit when they staged, he wouldn't be "Touching it"   😛       

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Soul Indigo
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10/8/2024 11:12pm
The rule says they are not allowed to touching the start gate, but it also says the rider is not allowed to enter the start mesh...

The rule says they are not allowed to touching the start gate, but it also says the rider is not allowed to enter the start mesh platform, every rider should have been disqualified when they rolled their bikes onto the start mesh!

https://www.fim-moto.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Documents/2024/2024_FIM_MXGP_MX2_WMX_MXoN_FIM_Junior_World_Championship_Cup_Regulations_13.06.2024_Update.pdf

image 573.png?VersionId=sSG9MG9j1

What a clown show 🤣

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mx_563
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10/8/2024 11:17pm

Suppose the FIM docked Hunter a few spots and the USA ended up with a lower overall score and actually won the event. 

How would "we" feel about that? Asterisk? No Asterisk? Personally, I wouldn't want to win that way. 

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2
10/8/2024 11:25pm
The rule says they are not allowed to touching the start gate, but it also says the rider is not allowed to enter the start mesh...

The rule says they are not allowed to touching the start gate, but it also says the rider is not allowed to enter the start mesh platform, every rider should have been disqualified when they rolled their bikes onto the start mesh!

https://www.fim-moto.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Documents/2024/2024_FIM_MXGP_MX2_WMX_MXoN_FIM_Junior_World_Championship_Cup_Regulations_13.06.2024_Update.pdf

image 573.png?VersionId=sSG9MG9j1

What a clown show 🤣

AMA rules are also poorly written.

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Soul Indigo
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10/8/2024 11:46pm
The rule says they are not allowed to touching the start gate, but it also says the rider is not allowed to enter the start mesh...

The rule says they are not allowed to touching the start gate, but it also says the rider is not allowed to enter the start mesh platform, every rider should have been disqualified when they rolled their bikes onto the start mesh!

https://www.fim-moto.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Documents/2024/2024_FIM_MXGP_MX2_WMX_MXoN_FIM_Junior_World_Championship_Cup_Regulations_13.06.2024_Update.pdf

image 573.png?VersionId=sSG9MG9j1

What a clown show 🤣

AMA rules are also poorly written.

It’s all a clown show. 

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cwel11
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10/9/2024 2:55am

I’ll never understand how this stuff happens. It should be crystal clear what the rules are in a “professional” race and teams should’ve been made aware from the start. These organizations need to get their collective heads outta their asses. 

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MxAddic
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10/9/2024 4:33am

Bend the knee…

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Johnny Oz
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10/9/2024 4:54am

I wonder if there is something in the rulebook that covers an official over-riding the rulebook? If they broke the rules, fair is fair, although I'd like to hear an official response.

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ando
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10/9/2024 4:56am Edited Date/Time 10/9/2024 4:56am
cwel11 wrote:
I’ll never understand how this stuff happens. It should be crystal clear what the rules are in a “professional” race and teams should’ve been made aware...

I’ll never understand how this stuff happens. It should be crystal clear what the rules are in a “professional” race and teams should’ve been made aware from the start. These organizations need to get their collective heads outta their asses. 

It’s highly impractical to regulate every little nuance in a sport, especially technically complex ones like motorsports.  You have to rely on interpretation and judgement to fill in the gaps.

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3strokemx
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10/9/2024 5:28am

Protesting at an exhibition race is some textbook mini-dad behavior.

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ando
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10/9/2024 5:42am
3strokemx wrote:

Protesting at an exhibition race is some textbook mini-dad behavior.

When I was listening to the podcast I was a bit surprised.  

Firstly by the fact that they only protested Hunter and not Prado; I guess Spain weren’t a threat for the win but still seemed a bit targeted.  Secondly, the rules don’t specifically say you can’t; team USA themselves asked the question of an FIM official but it wasn’t an official ruling or anything.  I guess if there’s something so vague that might be a problem you’d first seek to present the evidence and get some further clarification rather than protest first and sort it out later.  Thirdly, did they really think anything Hunter did was going to make any material difference?  I’d put it in the same category as a minor track cutting incident where you repeatedly run over the track markers.

Perebijnos seemed genuinely convinced they approached it the right way, and even said that Australia would do the same in turn (paraphrasing, can’t recall his exact words) if the situation were reversed.  

Imagine the shitstorm if USA did win that way.  

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GrapeApe
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10/9/2024 5:48am Edited Date/Time 10/9/2024 6:37am
3strokemx wrote:

Protesting at an exhibition race is some textbook mini-dad behavior.

ando wrote:
When I was listening to the podcast I was a bit surprised.  Firstly by the fact that they only protested Hunter and not Prado; I guess...

When I was listening to the podcast I was a bit surprised.  

Firstly by the fact that they only protested Hunter and not Prado; I guess Spain weren’t a threat for the win but still seemed a bit targeted.  Secondly, the rules don’t specifically say you can’t; team USA themselves asked the question of an FIM official but it wasn’t an official ruling or anything.  I guess if there’s something so vague that might be a problem you’d first seek to present the evidence and get some further clarification rather than protest first and sort it out later.  Thirdly, did they really think anything Hunter did was going to make any material difference?  I’d put it in the same category as a minor track cutting incident where you repeatedly run over the track markers.

Perebijnos seemed genuinely convinced they approached it the right way, and even said that Australia would do the same in turn (paraphrasing, can’t recall his exact words) if the situation were reversed.  

Imagine the shitstorm if USA did win that way.  

You're wondering why DeCoster didn't protest the GasGas rider? lol

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Falcon
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10/9/2024 6:08am

I don't think I would have protested that one. As an American, I'm a little bit embarrassed. 

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Tumic
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10/9/2024 6:24am

Cunt-move. You either protest both or none of them. 

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10/9/2024 6:36am

Well its cheating so...good on them if they noticed. BS for FIM doing nothing.

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wreckitrandy
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10/9/2024 6:47am
3strokemx wrote:

Protesting at an exhibition race is some textbook mini-dad behavior.

ando wrote:
When I was listening to the podcast I was a bit surprised.  Firstly by the fact that they only protested Hunter and not Prado; I guess...

When I was listening to the podcast I was a bit surprised.  

Firstly by the fact that they only protested Hunter and not Prado; I guess Spain weren’t a threat for the win but still seemed a bit targeted.  Secondly, the rules don’t specifically say you can’t; team USA themselves asked the question of an FIM official but it wasn’t an official ruling or anything.  I guess if there’s something so vague that might be a problem you’d first seek to present the evidence and get some further clarification rather than protest first and sort it out later.  Thirdly, did they really think anything Hunter did was going to make any material difference?  I’d put it in the same category as a minor track cutting incident where you repeatedly run over the track markers.

Perebijnos seemed genuinely convinced they approached it the right way, and even said that Australia would do the same in turn (paraphrasing, can’t recall his exact words) if the situation were reversed.  

Imagine the shitstorm if USA did win that way.  

GrapeApe wrote:

You're wondering why DeCoster didn't protest the GasGas rider? lol

If he had protested both riders, not knowing the penalty, would it not be possible that we needed Prado to finish ahead of Hunter to get the gap needed to win? 

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Crush
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10/9/2024 6:48am
Elliot wrote:
The rules are not clear.

The rules are not clear.

r 2

Seems pretty clear to me?

If they're using the expanded metal set up, select your position from behind the starting area barrier. ie don't go walking around near the gate, assumably to stop people fucking around with em.

If you're a team member, don't enter the start platform at all. So stand behind the rear-barrier.

At race time, riders can enter from behind the gate, to in front of the rear-barrier to prepare/clean/wipe, but no tools, power-washing or outside-help and don't touch the fuckin gate itself.

Where's the shrug emoji?

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Tumic
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10/9/2024 6:48am
Rosso391 wrote:

Well its cheating so...good on them if they noticed. BS for FIM doing nothing.

It was a weak move trying to win the event that the riders were to slow to do on their own hand. 

Had they protested Spain to, then it would have been about the cheating. 

 

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JazzyJJ
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10/9/2024 6:50am
mx_563 wrote:
Suppose the FIM docked Hunter a few spots and the USA ended up with a lower overall score and actually won the event. How would "we" feel...

Suppose the FIM docked Hunter a few spots and the USA ended up with a lower overall score and actually won the event. 

How would "we" feel about that? Asterisk? No Asterisk? Personally, I wouldn't want to win that way. 

Being technically correct is the best kind of correct 

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Gary Duck
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10/9/2024 6:51am

#GrateGate2024

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MxAddic
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10/9/2024 7:00am
Rosso391 wrote:

Well its cheating so...good on them if they noticed. BS for FIM doing nothing.

Tumic wrote:
It was a weak move trying to win the event that the riders were to slow to do on their own hand. Had they protested Spain to...

It was a weak move trying to win the event that the riders were to slow to do on their own hand. 

Had they protested Spain to, then it would have been about the cheating. 

 

Protesting a rider you beat is weak...

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Crush
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10/9/2024 7:00am
Rosso391 wrote:

Well its cheating so...good on them if they noticed. BS for FIM doing nothing.

The rules say you're allowed to wipe the grate, not the gate. Which as per Paul is what Hunter did.

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GrapeApe
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10/9/2024 7:16am
Rosso391 wrote:

Well its cheating so...good on them if they noticed. BS for FIM doing nothing.

Crush wrote:

The rules say you're allowed to wipe the grate, not the gate. Which as per Paul is what Hunter did.

Where are you seeing that rule? The "whenever a start mesh platform is being used" rule doesn't say anything about the grate, other than riders and team members are not allowed to enter.

I'm not advocating for the protest, just curious about the rules. Why weren't all of the GP regulars out there with towels drying their grates if it's legal?

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HondaSM
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10/9/2024 7:18am
sumdood wrote:
 This is a little out there but I thought about it when the grates became popular. "What if" you took a piece of the grate material...

 This is a little out there but I thought about it when the grates became popular. "What if" you took a piece of the grate material, heated it up till it was red hot and melted some grooves the exact shape as the grate into a brand new fresh tire and when the mechanic / rider rolled into their spot they made sure the grate lined up with the grooves and the tire countersunk into the holes. So for that first initial jump there'd be zero wheelspin on the grate. Would that be a legal tire modification ?  Or what if the mechanic snuck in a handheld torch and heated the gate just enough to melt into the back tire a little bit when they staged, he wouldn't be "Touching it"   😛       

Would make more sense to run a tire warmer on a low setting up to the last second. Not sure what the ruling is on that though

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