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Pierer Mobility is in trouble, not only KTM, you have to put into the equation bicycles with Felt and e-bicycles with Husqy and GasGas, and I think that part of the business is not going smoothly.
In the Motorsports division, MotoGP takes a lot of resources, but RedBull bosses seem to like it more than F1 and they don't have any problem in putting money in MotoGP, Moto2, Moto3... RedBull banksroll KTM RoadRacing program so that's not the problem
I think the problem comes from having GasGas and Husqy to try take away sales from the Japanese, at first they wanted to keep the GasGas models and Husqvqrna models different, but it seems that plan never materialized, now they ended up with a white and Red KTM, are people interested in that? I don't think so, the "multiple brands under 1 group" doesn't work in the MX/XC market because what matters is lap times, it works in the car industry because lap times are not what every consumer wants, if they want to make profit, quit the ready to race slogan of GasGas and build cheap entry level bikes, that means a kickstart, heaveir frame, carbutated 2 stroke, no electronic configuración... make them in a way that you could sell a 450 for 7k OTD, then make Husqy an electric brand to compete with Stark or something, or create Retro model, do something different than KTM ready to race models
They have already sold Felt Bicycles. They owned them for under a year, kinda fitting for how many not so good decisions they have made.
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/international/2023/12/06/pierer-announc…
Triumphs' decision to enter the off-road market is looking more and more like a smart move. If KTM hits trouble, they'll have the capacity to pick up a LOT of sales.
Imagine getting a slice of KTM's off road sales without the questionable KTM decision-making draining the finances down a black hole.
This all happened before in 2008. KTM forced huge inventory on dealers. Demand wasn’t there due to poor economy. They pulled through it. Sometimes I believe this stuff is planned. Maybe there is incentive to have a loss/be at a point too big to fail. The past couple years ktm went to TPI/TBI and the 23 bikes/chassis-these changes weren’t exactly loved by all. I have 17-22 ktm’s in my garage and there is a reason for that.
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Triumph doesn't even build an off-road model, not to mention at the current time they only have ONE bike. Kinda hard to compete with any brand when you only make one model.
They better start developing an off road line if they don’t already have plans to do so. Can’t imagine they will survive on MX only models.
One bike at the moment, they'll have others soon enough. Especially if a lot of orange/white/red KTM owners are looking for a different bike in the next couple of years and gaps open up in the market.
I'll bet my house there will be off road models soon. They won't have missed the size of that market. Being competitive in high-profile MX/SX will be make it easier to sell new off road models. If they'd gone off road first, it would've been harder to sell the other way.
The Husky and Gas Gas E Bicycles seem to be taking off in USA
Why then did Pierer take on the huge motorcycle building in southern California ?
Triumph: that ugly POS Yamaha aint ever gonna sell, Ducati maybe Triumph: stick a fork in them!
GasGas was giving away e-bicycles for free with the purchase of a motorcycle
No mention here of Bajaj, KTM’s half owner, which has manufactured 6.3m motorcycles across their portfolio through 2019.
Bajaj group is up 106% in stock value over 5 years, Bajaj Auto stock is up 277%.
PKTM is down 45% over 5 years after a massive hot streak.
Stocks are an indicator, but not an end all.
Are things changing? Yes. Is there a crisis? No. Are Vitards going to spew nonsense as if they have an inside line about something they know nothing about? Like a god given right, baby.
Pierer Mobility opened their US Corporate Headquarters in March 2023...
Maybe not a crisis to you or me, but at the c-suite level and to the investors a 66% loss in market cap in 3 years is a crisis. Stocks are an indicator, and Pierer Group's recent addresses to its investors are confirmation. That doesn't mean KTM is going away, but there will be sweeping changes that will be seen and felt by consumers and fans. It will be interesting to see how the KTM/Husky/GasGas thing ultimately shakes out.
All this makes me wonder how much longer Roger is going to be around. It would be a shame if he got caught up in corporate headcount reductions.
All bicycles are down a lot not just KTM group ones. They picked a really bad time to get into the market.
45% over 5 years? more like 70% in 18 months...
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Besides GasGas newest high end ebike all the other ones are just catalog Taiwan frames, virtually no upfront cost in that so unless they have some crazy amount of inventory I dont think that will effect them much.
Pierrier group bought husky back in 2013 and gasgas in 2019. By logic all that growth was due to the acclimation of those companies.
I'll put my money on the Triumph selling better than the Ducati..
The talk of them needing entry level bikes is very true and actually reminds me of a video I saw on one of those moto meme pages of chase ripping a pit bike on an sx track that looked exactly like what a ktm 110 4 stroke would look like. It made me stop and think like wait a minute ktm doesnt have mini 4 strokes…. Does it? So I went and checked since I hadnt looked in a long time and who knows maybe they had released one. They hadnt.
Other than the electric stuff their entry level stuff is all 2 stroke and a race 50, race 65, and race 85. They have no pw50 or crf50 equivalent, no klx 110 equivalent, and no crf150f, klx140 beginner woods bike equivalent. Focusing only on motocross bikes or competition 250/450 woods bikes definitely is hurting the amount of sales they could have. Also why arent they making side by sides? Side by sides are the natural extension of motorcycle brands and theyre selling and ktm has all the experience needed to make them.
One guy owns 75% of the 51% KTM share. Not a lot of public shareholders. PKTM average trading volume is 10/day, so there can't be much held publicly.
In that case, it is certainly a crisis for that guy unless he is so wealthy that he can shake off a 66% hit to value of the PKTM in his portfolio.
my local dealer has 2022 Husky e bikes stacked up to the ceiling.
Side by sides are popular in the US, but not Europe, Europe is KTM's biggest market.
Yep I have a similar story. One of the most respected small dealers in Massachusetts was told by KTM to build a new store to house more product or they were going to take the line away. Of course they took the line away because the dealer can't afford to build a new building. A lot of people around here are pissed off because these owners are extremely nice and have done amazing things for people in the clutch. So the result is KTM has one less dealer now than they had before and they have more product than they can handle. Jackasses at KTM USA sales.
One example of how nice this dealer was to me once... I broke a rear brake lever on a Saturday ride in the woods, before a Sunday race day. I called the dealer to ask if he had a lever instock, and he didn't. I got a call back before the end of the day and he said he found a lever for me and I could pick it up at the store, even though the store was closed. He was going to leave it under a bucket in the back. I drove to the store and found the lever where he said it was with a note saying that I could pay for it the next time I came in. Of course I was in there the next day they opened to pay for the lever and found out that he had taken it off of a brand new bike to make sure I could get out for my race. This is the type of dealer that I will jump through hoops to spend money at. Unfortunately, KTM doesn't really know this dealer at all.
As an example, Honda Talon and Kawasaki Teryx models aren't sold in Europe.
It’s Stefan Pierer. I’m sure he’s ok rolling with the punches at this time.
Wow thats awesome, not a lot of ppl like that these days. I’m from MA as well what dealer was it if u dont mind me asking?
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