Re: Stark-My conversation with Mike Burkeen, AMA Deputy Director of Racing

wardy
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8/10/2024 11:59pm
noise

 

Interesting i have used this and kept this around for a while.  does it still matter?  Smile

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ShipLap
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8/11/2024 5:41am

Gives new meaning to the term "Loud pipes save lives."

Carry on, gentlemen.

ned.
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8/11/2024 7:02am

AMA and Stark working towards two different goals doesn’t seem to be helping things along here. The AMA seems most interested in creating a separate class, while Stark wants to intermingle in current classes. Both sides seem to think the opposing argument won’t work.

A class full of Starks will be hard to stack a gate with and is also hard to make competitive. Think if a top guy swapped over to the E class and just mopped the floor with everyone, picking up the main event/OA purses. It likely wouldn’t be very entertaining, and the AMA doesn’t stand to gain much by shelling out more cash for an additional class. Stark knows this, so says why not mix them in to existing classes, which then leads to the AMA argument saying it’s not safe to do so, nor is it fair because it’s hard to replicate an E-bike to ICE.

Not accounting for what is or is not going on behind the scenes currently, neither side seems interested in testing the waters or bending to the other sides proposed solution. What I think we really need here is the willingness of one side to fail forward, try something out, and pare it back if need be. My largely uninformed opinion sees the easiest option to be sticking some speakers on a Stark (a la MX bike or even a sound like a Tesla or other electric cars make when in reverse), cap the HP to the 60hp map or whatever the fuck, and run ‘em in the current classes. See how they do. Maybe it would even be worth doing this in some sort of exhibition series first, or something like Arenacross or at the state-level? 

It seems there’s this huge concern that we’re going to get a fast guy on an electric bike and he’s just going to win everything because the bike is electric, but no one seems to bat an eyelash at Jett Lawrence for putting together a perfect motocross season on an ICE bike. Regardless of the bike, a perfect season is an incredible feat, but there’s a lot more to a race win, never mind a perfect season, than just the bike. The issue right now seems to be the amount of waffling from both sides.

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8/11/2024 8:14am

so a random dude picks up a phone, dials up the AMA, and has a full on spitball session with the Director of Racing regarding Stark/ICE rules and how they will be implemented in the future. Do I follow? But the moto-media doesn't have the time for these types of interviews? Do I still follow? lol - our sport is hysterical.

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The Shop

Beagle
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8/11/2024 8:42am

There are already lots of countries allowing electric bikes in standard classes without requiring any kind of noise buzzer but should the AMA go that way (still better racing than electric class with a handful of riders all on the same bike) it seems doable

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MxAddic
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8/11/2024 9:12am
Beagle wrote:
There are already lots of countries allowing electric bikes in standard classes without requiring any kind of noise buzzer but should the AMA go that way...

There are already lots of countries allowing electric bikes in standard classes without requiring any kind of noise buzzer but should the AMA go that way (still better racing than electric class with a handful of riders all on the same bike) it seems doable

LMFAO!

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Phildo
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8/12/2024 7:07am Edited Date/Time 8/12/2024 7:08am
ML512 wrote:

Personally, I've had two sketchy moments involving Starks in the last couple of months at Fox Raceway because I can't even hear the dang things.

If riders can't hear a Stark behind them then wouldn't that make it too dangerous or unviable for Starks to be on a track at all?

 

8/12/2024 7:21am

Sounds more like the Stark riders had sketchy moments with ML512 as they were passing him.🤬😁😉

8/12/2024 9:07am
so a random dude picks up a phone, dials up the AMA, and has a full on spitball session with the Director of Racing regarding Stark/ICE...

so a random dude picks up a phone, dials up the AMA, and has a full on spitball session with the Director of Racing regarding Stark/ICE rules and how they will be implemented in the future. Do I follow? But the moto-media doesn't have the time for these types of interviews? Do I still follow? lol - our sport is hysterical.

Those of you who have tried know I usually answer the phone and pretty much call everyone back.

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wardy
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8/14/2024 7:47am
so a random dude picks up a phone, dials up the AMA, and has a full on spitball session with the Director of Racing regarding Stark/ICE...

so a random dude picks up a phone, dials up the AMA, and has a full on spitball session with the Director of Racing regarding Stark/ICE rules and how they will be implemented in the future. Do I follow? But the moto-media doesn't have the time for these types of interviews? Do I still follow? lol - our sport is hysterical.

SlowOldGuy wrote:

Those of you who have tried know I usually answer the phone and pretty much call everyone back.

translation......................... you like to talk.   so do i by the way.

 

HA!

8/14/2024 8:00am
so a random dude picks up a phone, dials up the AMA, and has a full on spitball session with the Director of Racing regarding Stark/ICE...

so a random dude picks up a phone, dials up the AMA, and has a full on spitball session with the Director of Racing regarding Stark/ICE rules and how they will be implemented in the future. Do I follow? But the moto-media doesn't have the time for these types of interviews? Do I still follow? lol - our sport is hysterical.

SlowOldGuy wrote:

Those of you who have tried know I usually answer the phone and pretty much call everyone back.

wardy wrote:

translation......................... you like to talk.   so do i by the way.

 

HA!

LOL

Magoofan
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8/14/2024 8:13am

"WHAT I WISH ALL ICE DIRT BIKE OWNERS WOULD DO:
1.    Realize that more options for people owning dirt bikes is a good thing.  Nobody will make you buy/ride an electric dirt bike against your will."

Until that choice is taken away by force....

As far as a spectator sport.....  boring AF from the videos I've seen.       Hard pass. 

 

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AgileMike
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8/14/2024 6:22pm

Another problem with AMA/promoters:

There is no reason to make electric dirt bikes legal for racing because there isn’t enough of them at the tracks.

ALL OF US:

I don’t want to buy a $12,000 bike until it’s legal to race…..  

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yz133rider
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8/16/2024 12:56pm

Here’s an example of a stark passing me, if I commited to that double we would have collided without a doubt.


How he thought I wouldn’t be there makes no sense to me that’s how the line goes, bank off the outside straighten up and hit the double , or sweep the inside and inevitably fade outside.


I had no clue he was coming through and nearly commited.


Absurd.

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JM485
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8/16/2024 1:34pm
yz133rider wrote:
Here’s an example of a stark passing me, if I commited to that double we would have collided without a doubt.How he thought I wouldn’t be...

Here’s an example of a stark passing me, if I commited to that double we would have collided without a doubt.


How he thought I wouldn’t be there makes no sense to me that’s how the line goes, bank off the outside straighten up and hit the double , or sweep the inside and inevitably fade outside.


I had no clue he was coming through and nearly commited.


Absurd.

You have to be kidding me, you’re crying over that?  You were pretty clearly not going to hit that jump, I would have taken the same line as the guy on the Stark and not given it a second thought.  You have just as much responsibility to know where other riders are on the track, if you’re going to roll a jump doing so on the very edge of the track is your safest bet, not mid way towards the center in the racing line.  

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8/16/2024 1:46pm Edited Date/Time 8/16/2024 1:47pm
yz133rider wrote:
Here’s an example of a stark passing me, if I commited to that double we would have collided without a doubt.How he thought I wouldn’t be...

Here’s an example of a stark passing me, if I commited to that double we would have collided without a doubt.


How he thought I wouldn’t be there makes no sense to me that’s how the line goes, bank off the outside straighten up and hit the double , or sweep the inside and inevitably fade outside.


I had no clue he was coming through and nearly commited.


Absurd.

Maybe they will let you practice with the 50cc YZinger class 😆 Hell you are the problem in that video, not the stark rider.

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yz133rider
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8/16/2024 1:47pm
JM485 wrote:
You have to be kidding me, you’re crying over that?  You were pretty clearly not going to hit that jump, I would have taken the same...

You have to be kidding me, you’re crying over that?  You were pretty clearly not going to hit that jump, I would have taken the same line as the guy on the Stark and not given it a second thought.  You have just as much responsibility to know where other riders are on the track, if you’re going to roll a jump doing so on the very edge of the track is your safest bet, not mid way towards the center in the racing line.  

I’m not “crying” and I certainly wasn’t very clearly going to roll it, I backed out, but I could have hit it from that approach and almost did. That jump isn’t big it didn’t need any more run up than that.


Think what you will from a GoPro video, I was there, I was riding, I know what was in my head and was “this” close to going for it….


It’s a reality that enough people have echoed…

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8/16/2024 1:48pm
JM485 wrote:
You have to be kidding me, you’re crying over that?  You were pretty clearly not going to hit that jump, I would have taken the same...

You have to be kidding me, you’re crying over that?  You were pretty clearly not going to hit that jump, I would have taken the same line as the guy on the Stark and not given it a second thought.  You have just as much responsibility to know where other riders are on the track, if you’re going to roll a jump doing so on the very edge of the track is your safest bet, not mid way towards the center in the racing line.  

yz133rider wrote:
I’m not “crying” and I certainly wasn’t very clearly going to roll it, I backed out, but I could have hit it from that approach and...

I’m not “crying” and I certainly wasn’t very clearly going to roll it, I backed out, but I could have hit it from that approach and almost did. That jump isn’t big it didn’t need any more run up than that.


Think what you will from a GoPro video, I was there, I was riding, I know what was in my head and was “this” close to going for it….


It’s a reality that enough people have echoed…

Untitled 26
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yz133rider
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8/16/2024 1:49pm
JM485 wrote:
You have to be kidding me, you’re crying over that?  You were pretty clearly not going to hit that jump, I would have taken the same...

You have to be kidding me, you’re crying over that?  You were pretty clearly not going to hit that jump, I would have taken the same line as the guy on the Stark and not given it a second thought.  You have just as much responsibility to know where other riders are on the track, if you’re going to roll a jump doing so on the very edge of the track is your safest bet, not mid way towards the center in the racing line.  

yz133rider wrote:
I’m not “crying” and I certainly wasn’t very clearly going to roll it, I backed out, but I could have hit it from that approach and...

I’m not “crying” and I certainly wasn’t very clearly going to roll it, I backed out, but I could have hit it from that approach and almost did. That jump isn’t big it didn’t need any more run up than that.


Think what you will from a GoPro video, I was there, I was riding, I know what was in my head and was “this” close to going for it….


It’s a reality that enough people have echoed…

lostboy819 wrote:
Untitled 26

And that meme works both ways, I’m not here acting like a faggot towards anyone, so it’s interesting to see you guys act like this lol. 

Welcome to the internet I guess.


Ride on bros…

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8/16/2024 3:31pm

You can tell he was surprised. But that same thing would happen if You mixed riders of different skills together too.  And happens all the time on a track like that when there are not many guys out on it. 

 

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JM485
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8/16/2024 9:47pm
yz133rider wrote:
I’m not “crying” and I certainly wasn’t very clearly going to roll it, I backed out, but I could have hit it from that approach and...

I’m not “crying” and I certainly wasn’t very clearly going to roll it, I backed out, but I could have hit it from that approach and almost did. That jump isn’t big it didn’t need any more run up than that.


Think what you will from a GoPro video, I was there, I was riding, I know what was in my head and was “this” close to going for it….


It’s a reality that enough people have echoed…

Dude, come on.  Your text on the video is literally "Dead quiet, we almost hit", and this is as close as he got to you, give me a break.  You can have whatever feelings you want about the incident but that doesn't make them valid or reflect reality.   

 

Screenshot 2024-08-16 214308.png?VersionId=2yXIkbojjbSkgZ.kCOp3m0
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yz133rider
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8/17/2024 3:12am
yz133rider wrote:
I’m not “crying” and I certainly wasn’t very clearly going to roll it, I backed out, but I could have hit it from that approach and...

I’m not “crying” and I certainly wasn’t very clearly going to roll it, I backed out, but I could have hit it from that approach and almost did. That jump isn’t big it didn’t need any more run up than that.


Think what you will from a GoPro video, I was there, I was riding, I know what was in my head and was “this” close to going for it….


It’s a reality that enough people have echoed…

JM485 wrote:
Dude, come on.  Your text on the video is literally "Dead quiet, we almost hit", and this is as close as he got to you, give...

Dude, come on.  Your text on the video is literally "Dead quiet, we almost hit", and this is as close as he got to you, give me a break.  You can have whatever feelings you want about the incident but that doesn't make them valid or reflect reality.   

 

Screenshot 2024-08-16 214308.png?VersionId=2yXIkbojjbSkgZ.kCOp3m0

You’re purposely being dense or it comes natural but, you’re missing the part where ‘if I had went for it, is why I said we’d almost hit’. If I went for it which you can see I suddenly backed out, which I was very close to not backing off, where would I have been? Where would he have been?


The other 6 times this happened over the last year were more egregious, but didn’t have on camera. Just was funny that shortly after this topic came up, it happened again. 

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MxAddic
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8/17/2024 4:01am
yz133rider wrote:
You’re purposely being dense or it comes natural but, you’re missing the part where ‘if I had went for it, is why I said we’d almost...

You’re purposely being dense or it comes natural but, you’re missing the part where ‘if I had went for it, is why I said we’d almost hit’. If I went for it which you can see I suddenly backed out, which I was very close to not backing off, where would I have been? Where would he have been?


The other 6 times this happened over the last year were more egregious, but didn’t have on camera. Just was funny that shortly after this topic came up, it happened again. 

Other than the fact this guy sells E-bikes for a living what would make you think he has a bias. Clearly the close calls are happening or at least folks are being made uncomfortable. I find it interesting we don’t here more reports of collisions and injuries but the more bike they sell it can only get worse.

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davis224
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Fantasy
8/17/2024 5:22am
yz133rider wrote:
I’m not “crying” and I certainly wasn’t very clearly going to roll it, I backed out, but I could have hit it from that approach and...

I’m not “crying” and I certainly wasn’t very clearly going to roll it, I backed out, but I could have hit it from that approach and almost did. That jump isn’t big it didn’t need any more run up than that.


Think what you will from a GoPro video, I was there, I was riding, I know what was in my head and was “this” close to going for it….


It’s a reality that enough people have echoed…

JM485 wrote:
Dude, come on.  Your text on the video is literally "Dead quiet, we almost hit", and this is as close as he got to you, give...

Dude, come on.  Your text on the video is literally "Dead quiet, we almost hit", and this is as close as he got to you, give me a break.  You can have whatever feelings you want about the incident but that doesn't make them valid or reflect reality.   

 

Screenshot 2024-08-16 214308.png?VersionId=2yXIkbojjbSkgZ.kCOp3m0
yz133rider wrote:
You’re purposely being dense or it comes natural but, you’re missing the part where ‘if I had went for it, is why I said we’d almost...

You’re purposely being dense or it comes natural but, you’re missing the part where ‘if I had went for it, is why I said we’d almost hit’. If I went for it which you can see I suddenly backed out, which I was very close to not backing off, where would I have been? Where would he have been?


The other 6 times this happened over the last year were more egregious, but didn’t have on camera. Just was funny that shortly after this topic came up, it happened again. 

You clearly weren't going for it in plenty of time for him to react/adjust his line accordingly.

"If things had been different, it would have been different."

For what it's worth, when I rode a stark, I noticed the person in front of me had no idea I was there and I had to be careful with my line choice going around them. The problem you're describing is legitimate, just not in what I saw in that video.

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8/17/2024 6:16am
yz133rider wrote:
Here’s an example of a stark passing me, if I commited to that double we would have collided without a doubt.How he thought I wouldn’t be...

Here’s an example of a stark passing me, if I commited to that double we would have collided without a doubt.


How he thought I wouldn’t be there makes no sense to me that’s how the line goes, bank off the outside straighten up and hit the double , or sweep the inside and inevitably fade outside.


I had no clue he was coming through and nearly commited.


Absurd.

The other rider was traveling at more than twice your speed, it doesn't matter what he was riding, you would not have had time to react.

If you are not the fastest rider on the track, stay on one side and be predictable, otherwise you are a danger to other riders.

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yz133rider
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8/17/2024 6:43am
yz133rider wrote:
Here’s an example of a stark passing me, if I commited to that double we would have collided without a doubt.How he thought I wouldn’t be...

Here’s an example of a stark passing me, if I commited to that double we would have collided without a doubt.


How he thought I wouldn’t be there makes no sense to me that’s how the line goes, bank off the outside straighten up and hit the double , or sweep the inside and inevitably fade outside.


I had no clue he was coming through and nearly commited.


Absurd.

The other rider was traveling at more than twice your speed, it doesn't matter what he was riding, you would not have had time to react.If...

The other rider was traveling at more than twice your speed, it doesn't matter what he was riding, you would not have had time to react.

If you are not the fastest rider on the track, stay on one side and be predictable, otherwise you are a danger to other riders.

You’re right. I’m glad we had this conversation. I will stay on the edges of the track from now on…

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8/17/2024 6:47am
yz133rider wrote:
Here’s an example of a stark passing me, if I commited to that double we would have collided without a doubt.How he thought I wouldn’t be...

Here’s an example of a stark passing me, if I commited to that double we would have collided without a doubt.


How he thought I wouldn’t be there makes no sense to me that’s how the line goes, bank off the outside straighten up and hit the double , or sweep the inside and inevitably fade outside.


I had no clue he was coming through and nearly commited.


Absurd.

The other rider was traveling at more than twice your speed, it doesn't matter what he was riding, you would not have had time to react.If...

The other rider was traveling at more than twice your speed, it doesn't matter what he was riding, you would not have had time to react.

If you are not the fastest rider on the track, stay on one side and be predictable, otherwise you are a danger to other riders.

yz133rider wrote:

You’re right. I’m glad we had this conversation. I will stay on the edges of the track from now on…

It may save your life.

8/22/2024 7:57am
yz133rider wrote:
Here’s an example of a stark passing me, if I commited to that double we would have collided without a doubt.How he thought I wouldn’t be...

Here’s an example of a stark passing me, if I commited to that double we would have collided without a doubt.


How he thought I wouldn’t be there makes no sense to me that’s how the line goes, bank off the outside straighten up and hit the double , or sweep the inside and inevitably fade outside.


I had no clue he was coming through and nearly commited.


Absurd.

The other rider was traveling at more than twice your speed, it doesn't matter what he was riding, you would not have had time to react.If...

The other rider was traveling at more than twice your speed, it doesn't matter what he was riding, you would not have had time to react.

If you are not the fastest rider on the track, stay on one side and be predictable, otherwise you are a danger to other riders.

yz133rider wrote:

You’re right. I’m glad we had this conversation. I will stay on the edges of the track from now on…

Ironically, your bike being loud impeded your ability to hear another rider. 

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yz133rider
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8/22/2024 8:14am
The other rider was traveling at more than twice your speed, it doesn't matter what he was riding, you would not have had time to react.If...

The other rider was traveling at more than twice your speed, it doesn't matter what he was riding, you would not have had time to react.

If you are not the fastest rider on the track, stay on one side and be predictable, otherwise you are a danger to other riders.

yz133rider wrote:

You’re right. I’m glad we had this conversation. I will stay on the edges of the track from now on…

tcannon521 wrote:

Ironically, your bike being loud impeded your ability to hear another rider. 

No fucking shit that’s the entire issue. Gas bikes make noise and e bikes essentially don’t…

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8/22/2024 10:12am
yz133rider wrote:

You’re right. I’m glad we had this conversation. I will stay on the edges of the track from now on…

tcannon521 wrote:

Ironically, your bike being loud impeded your ability to hear another rider. 

yz133rider wrote:

No fucking shit that’s the entire issue. Gas bikes make noise and e bikes essentially don’t…

 I've had similar close calls while on a gas bike with another gas bike.  The issue here is the lack of other bikes on the track , and the big gap in speed between the 2 riders.  You were not expecting somebody to pass You like that. And it would have happened no matter what bike that other guy was on. I'm sure it has happened to You before with other riders on Gas bikes before too.  

 

 Not hearing somebody behind You can be an issue on Gas bikes too, that can result in cross jumping in a similar situation . Add in Ear plugs and a rider that rids a lower RPM and You are close to the sound difference between a wide-open Varg  sound output without earplugs. 

If it is OK for a racer to decide to wear earplugs, It should be OK to ride a bike that is not as loud. And make it clear to the rider on the Electric that they need to be a little more careful around a gas bike.  Sounds easier than knowing who is wearing earplugs  that may not be able to hear me behind them. 

 

As more Vargs are out there in the wild, they will most likely be mixed with gas bikes in the worst possible conditions that will be primed for the results that people fear.  On practice tracks and in classes with mixed skills at smaller races.  So the answer will be clear as to if it is a much bigger problem than a guy riding a gear higher at a low RPM passing a guy with earplugs.  

 

I guaranty that everybody has had somebody sneak up behind them before Vargs.  

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