Making the Nationals more Exciting

zehn
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6/7/2024 9:15pm
FI2T wrote:
Yep, equal displacement in the 250 class and allow 300's in the 450 class! Hopefully Washougal has an even bigger 2stroke turnout this year! My biggest...

Yep, equal displacement in the 250 class and allow 300's in the 450 class! Hopefully Washougal has an even bigger 2stroke turnout this year!

My biggest complaint is the same as every year. I wish we had everyone out there, regardless both classes are going to be a battle. 

yz133rider wrote:

You lost me at 300s in the 450 class, it should be equal displacement also..  imagine if they started building lighter counterbalanced 350-450cc 2 strokes.

People would still race 450 4 strokes

Shred
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6/7/2024 10:05pm
Some easy changes that would yield immediately noticeable results (in both MX and SX): - Eliminate metal grates on the start - Outlaw holeshot devices, traction...

Some easy changes that would yield immediately noticeable results (in both MX and SX):

- Eliminate metal grates on the start

- Outlaw holeshot devices, traction control and other electronic aids (starting maps, etc.)

Not gonna beat on the 2-stroke drum but any time you require more skill to ride something, the more opportunities you have for rider error, which is the variability that makes the racing more unpredictable (and exciting).

Failing these, we could at least have a more entertaining show if an hour before the second moto they required riders to drink Turbolax with the number of ounces corresponding to the number of points they earned in the first moto - i.e., 1st place drinks 25 ounces, 2nd drinks 22 ounces and so on for all point-earning finishers. 

The 2nd moto suspense would be palpable.Grinning

Thumbs up on the first 2 points (metal grates and starting aids).  Thumbs down on the rest….which makes it a 😐 overall.

yz133rider
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6/7/2024 11:39pm
FI2T wrote:
Yep, equal displacement in the 250 class and allow 300's in the 450 class! Hopefully Washougal has an even bigger 2stroke turnout this year! My biggest...

Yep, equal displacement in the 250 class and allow 300's in the 450 class! Hopefully Washougal has an even bigger 2stroke turnout this year!

My biggest complaint is the same as every year. I wish we had everyone out there, regardless both classes are going to be a battle. 

yz133rider wrote:

You lost me at 300s in the 450 class, it should be equal displacement also..  imagine if they started building lighter counterbalanced 350-450cc 2 strokes.

zehn wrote:

People would still race 450 4 strokes

Possibly, but would still be a really cool bike and a lot of fun, which would be cool, I’d probably buy one.

sumdood
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6/8/2024 12:34am

I don't know how the logistics would work but I'd rather see gate drops and races to determine who makes the field and what gate pick they get in the first moto. Then the first moto finishes would be their 2nd moto gate pick. After the first round the gate pics for the semis the following week goes by their point standing, maybe do the lotto thing at the very first round to get the ball rolling. As a fan I'd way rather watch guys actually racing instead of trying to do "One hot lap" and going off that. It's always seemed kind of dumb to me to qualify based on lap times when the track changes every lap. We're not racing on pavement where the only changes are the temperature of the track and the weather. Motocross tracks change every lap, you guys all know there's a certain time between the first couple guys on the track and the last couple guys on the track when the track will be the fastest. When the lines are burned in but it's not beat to shit yet. Comparing lap times from when the track is prime to lap times after it's all chopped up is like comparing apples and oranges isn't it ?  Drop the gate and lets see a race, I don't care about one fast lap, I want to see racing where each position counts. Just another $.02 Laughing  

The Shop

FI2T
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6/8/2024 2:36am
FI2T wrote:
Yep, equal displacement in the 250 class and allow 300's in the 450 class! Hopefully Washougal has an even bigger 2stroke turnout this year! My biggest...

Yep, equal displacement in the 250 class and allow 300's in the 450 class! Hopefully Washougal has an even bigger 2stroke turnout this year!

My biggest complaint is the same as every year. I wish we had everyone out there, regardless both classes are going to be a battle. 

yz133rider wrote:

You lost me at 300s in the 450 class, it should be equal displacement also..  imagine if they started building lighter counterbalanced 350-450cc 2 strokes.

I agree and am all for equal displacement. Tough to race a bike that isn't made though. They could and should allow the 300 to race. 

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Joey Bridges
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6/8/2024 3:45am

Can't see how this can make it any more, "exciting".

 

The motocross format has been around since day 1.

It works.

It's not changing. 

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Spoonguy
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6/8/2024 3:51am
Hasletjoe wrote:
How about do something like...........45 minute motos?  This gives each competitor a chance to overcome a poor start, getting stuck behind "that guy" and differentiates SX...

How about do something like...........45 minute motos?  This gives each competitor a chance to overcome a poor start, getting stuck behind "that guy" and differentiates SX versus MX.  Would allow the manufacturers to display their motorcycles endurance.

 

h20 wrote:

If you can’t pass someone in 30 minutes you aren’t passing them in 45 .  

I think a lot of the races back in the day when they raced 45 minutes were decided in the final 10-15 minutes.

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Spoonguy
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6/8/2024 3:56am

How about preparing the tracks distinctly different from one another? How about a national in the southeast? How about riders allowed to ride multiple classes the same day? Fix the production rule so if you are not on a factory bike in the 250 class you have a chance at top ten maybe? Fix the homologation rule. The purse in embarrassing, raise it. Ban start maps, scoop tires, and devices.

2
Richy
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6/8/2024 4:15am

Skip the constant suuuuper deep track prep at some of the tracks. Variety is great. How much do we look forward to Southwick or Melville with different conditions? (I know those are still deep, but obviously it's different).

The two stroke thing is so damn simple. It's been so widely requested for so many years, it should be a no brainer...

Metal grates, holeshot devices and ECU strategies for wheel spin, this seems like it's pretty widely requested, this probably needs some discussion at the higher level.

Besides that, all good.

JustMX
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6/8/2024 4:59am Edited Date/Time 6/8/2024 5:00am

I always kind of liked the idea of an inverted start.

every once in awhile it is nice to see something crazy happen.

think about Southwick when 250B group goes out on a fresh track and sets a time that the factory guys struggle to beat.

Wouldn't it be cool to see the guy that took the last qualifying spot in the lcq get first pick on the gate for the first moto?

The problem is, as demonstrated at the rodil cup, that riders have no incentive to be fast qualifier.

maybe the solution is to make inverting the start random.

After qualifying is over, and shortly before riders head to the first moto, officials have a coin toss. Heads, qualifying stands, tails it is inverted,(and swap that every race so one is not favored over the other).

Limit it to a maximum number of inverted races to under half the rounds (Motocross, 5 out of 11).

It could result in 5 inverted gate picks at the first 5 rounds, or the fickle coin could give inverted starts at the last 5, or there could be a series without any.

There would be sponsorship opportunities. maybe crypto currency (a coin toss is all old currency is good for anymore) or a casino/online betting site (what are the odds).

The coin toss could become as signature as 15 minutes can save you 15%, and it would be interesting to see deegan, sexton, or Jett get last gate pick every once in a while.

 

ShipLap
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6/8/2024 5:38am

Allow 450 cc two strokes to compete in the 450 class and allow 250 cc two strokes to compete in the 250 class.  
It's a no-brainer.

1
Johnny Ringo
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6/8/2024 6:22am

Bring back morning qualifiers for those outside the top 10

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Village Idiot
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6/8/2024 6:55am
Some easy changes that would yield immediately noticeable results (in both MX and SX): - Eliminate metal grates on the start - Outlaw holeshot devices, traction...

Some easy changes that would yield immediately noticeable results (in both MX and SX):

- Eliminate metal grates on the start

- Outlaw holeshot devices, traction control and other electronic aids (starting maps, etc.)

Not gonna beat on the 2-stroke drum but any time you require more skill to ride something, the more opportunities you have for rider error, which is the variability that makes the racing more unpredictable (and exciting).

Failing these, we could at least have a more entertaining show if an hour before the second moto they required riders to drink Turbolax with the number of ounces corresponding to the number of points they earned in the first moto - i.e., 1st place drinks 25 ounces, 2nd drinks 22 ounces and so on for all point-earning finishers. 

The 2nd moto suspense would be palpable.Grinning

Shred wrote:

Thumbs up on the first 2 points (metal grates and starting aids).  Thumbs down on the rest….which makes it a 😐 overall.

Well, I figure they've already turned SX into a crap show, so why not MX?Grinning

1
GuyB
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6/8/2024 8:05am
Boggins wrote:
Most of us loved watching Hangtown 450 moto2, seeing how far up the leader board Chase would get to. How about this idea: make Moto 1...

Most of us loved watching Hangtown 450 moto2, seeing how far up the leader board Chase would get to.

How about this idea: make Moto 1 gate picks determined by picking a chip (1-40.) Moto2 gate picks determined by Moto1 finish.   The early Qualifying session results determine order for chip selection.

The current format in AMA Nat's, F1, MotoGP, MXGP results in the top riders / drivers getting the best starting spots, their finishing spot almost predetermined, and results in average racing.  I would much rather watch Max Verstapp, F. Bagnaia, M Marquez, Jett, Chase, Eli etc,  have to come thru the pack to get a top finish if they selected a chip with a less desirable starting spot / place.

I assume this will receive 50 thumbs down, but watching 11 Nationals with Jett, Hunta, Chase, Plessinger, JCooper, JAnderson and the top 10 riders finishing in that order is not very exciting.

Don't sell yourself short. I'd bet you can get at least a hundred thumbs down. 

1
Boggins
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6/8/2024 8:29am

Example today at Thunder Valley:   

Jett is hurt, nurses his wounds finishes Top 7, Chase is healthy, with a good gate pick he finishes 1st or 2nd,  Hunta, JA, JCoop, Cowboy, etc finish accordingly.   

Now throw in gate pick chips for first moto, some of the Top riders may select chip 1-10 or 30-40, and we now potentially have some top riders having to charge through the pack to achieve top 5 finish.  This is much more exciting to watch, and more reason for me to watch rather than Chase, Hunta, JCoop, Cowboy, JA finishing in this order with qualifying time determining gate pick.  Its just an idea to spice up the racing. 

Not sure if eliminating the grates and holeshot devices will change up the start results, but that would be interesting to see as well.

1
1
early
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6/8/2024 8:33am

Random gate pick is BS for the MXdN qualifiers, it would BS at nationals. Dedicate the lives of 10 people and tons of money to go racing for your gate pick to be decided by a lottery. Talk about a podunk sport.

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