AMA Penalty PALA 250 Class - Let's hear it, Why 16 and NOT 38?

Beeby
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6/1/2024 3:45am

They should make the sides of the track into ditches or gullies and pump in fresh hot lava from the earths core so there is a constant flow. That’ll stop them

6
ATKpilot99
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6/1/2024 3:47am
Beeby wrote:
They should make the sides of the track into ditches or gullies and pump in fresh hot lava from the earths core so there is a...

They should make the sides of the track into ditches or gullies and pump in fresh hot lava from the earths core so there is a constant flow. That’ll stop them

Now that's the first sensible idea I've seen in this thread . 

8tensolutions
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6/1/2024 6:08am
Paul333 wrote:
I like RV's opnion. If you go off the track it should cost you time no matter what. You aren't on the race track. No matter...

I like RV's opnion.

If you go off the track it should cost you time no matter what. You aren't on the race track. No matter what you got to take a breather, relax, etc. 

This is how I feel also.  The fact Deegan lost time is not a reason to avoid a penalty.  He clearly accelerated when off the track two of the three times.  Of course you should lose time for leaving the course.  

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1
Shred
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6/1/2024 7:32am Edited Date/Time 6/1/2024 10:12am
    Mike Pelletier gave his excuses for why Deegan wasn't penalized and it's such nonsense. Talking about having a whole bunch of camera angles that...
 

 

Mike Pelletier gave his excuses for why Deegan wasn't penalized and it's such nonsense. Talking about having a whole bunch of camera angles that we don't have access to, as if we can't see Deegan absolutely spraying roost while off-track.

I would have more respect if he just admitted he fucked up and took ownership of this massive blunder.

So basically we decided this based on two things. 1. Vialle didn’t look before he went back on. 2. Deegan looked back when he went off...

So basically we decided this based on two things.

1. Vialle didn’t look before he went back on.

2. Deegan looked back when he went off to see if he was going lose a position.

 

Mike said we don’t base this on one thing or all things. Umm ok.

Yea…he really leaned on this one so Mike P…..  If turning and looking is the end all of being penalized or not then why not just put the wording in the rule.

”When re-entering the track a rider MUST look, even if you know a rider is nowhere close, or you will be penalized!”  Also “you can stay on the throttle as hard as you like, as long as you don’t gain .001 seconds or more”.   He set the precedent so……

 

…..btw…in moto 1 when Deegan left the track, and barley misses a track worker, he stayed looking forward and never looked over before re-entering the track….

4

The Shop

brocster
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6/1/2024 7:58am

Yes,  because if they enforced the rule re enter where you went off that’s exactly the time difference. 
 

to make it fair, consistent and without subjectivity or sub conscious bias simply enforce the rule “re enter where you went off” and the off track excursions and antics would  police themselves. Track markers are there for a reason. Use them!

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yak651
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6/1/2024 8:02am
brocster wrote:
Yes,  because if they enforced the rule re enter where you went off that’s exactly the time difference.    to make it fair, consistent and without...

Yes,  because if they enforced the rule re enter where you went off that’s exactly the time difference. 
 

to make it fair, consistent and without subjectivity or sub conscious bias simply enforce the rule “re enter where you went off” and the off track excursions and antics would  police themselves. Track markers are there for a reason. Use them!

Yep, he went off t he track but lost 0.001 seconds so he didn’t gain an advantage…come on man, that is an advantage that you only lost that much time after making a mistake 🤦‍♂️

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Ozzy
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6/1/2024 8:44am

Personally I hate the whole deal.
It’s embarrassing to me.
Mike’s assessment & explanation to me are a Joke.
1st of all, his so called Jury of Peers is really Shallow.
2 AMA people, a Former Team Mgr, & 1 Rider.
Yep, 1 Former Pro Rider.
At their best, it’s at least 3-4 to 1 Rider.
That’s not Professional.
Compared to other Sports & Motorsports this is laughable.
There should be a minimum of 3 Former Pros.
Their opinions of what the 16 was thinking is silly.
Regardless of their so called proof, the 38 also was on the throttle, both were.
They need their eyes checked.
Why have Rules?
The right thing to do is use the Rule where 1 must re-enter where he exists.
Anything else is to subjective, opinionated, etc.
For me another in a long line of poorly handled AMA calls by those few in charge.
That’s not Professional.
For me, all the Top Manufacturers work way too hard to have such Amateurish Governing of the Sports Rules.
CRAZY.

12
1
Press516
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6/1/2024 9:29am Edited Date/Time 6/1/2024 9:30am
Press516 wrote:

So Andrew Short is on the take too???  
 

You conspiracy theorists are wacko…

Shred wrote:
Who said anything about anyone “on the take”?   They just fucked this up….royally….and instead of clarifying what to do off track…they made it even worse...

Who said anything about anyone “on the take”?  
They just fucked this up….royally….and instead of clarifying what to do off track…they made it even worse.  I think they absolutely did not want to take the 1st place trophy out of Deegan’s hands after he had hoisted it….and said what they had to after the fact.  No conspiracy theories or accusations of anyone on the take.  I just think Mike P did a horrible, and unfair, job on this and it could have major ramifications on the championship.

"did not want to take the first place trophy out of Deegans hands"

Why?  For that to be true they had to receive something...  What did they receive?  Satisfaction?  I never said it was a bribe or monetary...  This is really complex and your accusations simply can't be substantiated.  And you're dragging a former pro racer into the conspiracy.

You believe they secretly did something for a reason...  Literally the definition of a conspiracy.

 

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Magoofan
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6/1/2024 11:06am
FGR01 wrote:
So, I guess we're just ignoring the 20 or so times He took this cheater line at the top of the hill and went totally outside...

So, I guess we're just ignoring the 20 or so times He took this cheater line at the top of the hill and went totally outside the yellow marker?   Go ahead and tell me it did not gain any advantage.

image-20240526082951-1

DonM wrote:

Jett was doing it too...some of you are trying too hard....

Same shit,  different week....

image-20240601110507-1

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Dan-The-Man
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6/1/2024 11:15am

Does anyone actually think Tom gained time going off the track? Last time I checked you don’t go off race line, off the track then jump back on and not lose time the same way Deegan did or didn’t,

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Press516
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6/1/2024 11:28am
Does anyone actually think Tom gained time going off the track? Last time I checked you don’t go off race line, off the track then jump...

Does anyone actually think Tom gained time going off the track? Last time I checked you don’t go off race line, off the track then jump back on and not lose time the same way Deegan did or didn’t,

I don't think he did...  That's why I said the AMA needs to produce their data.  But unless someone else proves them wrong, we're looking at a bunch of opinions and nothing more.  I still think it was a no penalty for either situation.  The AMA came out and gave their reasoning, at this point we can only dispute it with opinion.  I'd like to see Andrew Short asked directly about the situation.

1
6/1/2024 11:41am
Ozzy wrote:
Personally I hate the whole deal. It’s embarrassing to me. Mike’s assessment & explanation to me are a Joke. 1st of all, his so called Jury...

Personally I hate the whole deal.
It’s embarrassing to me.
Mike’s assessment & explanation to me are a Joke.
1st of all, his so called Jury of Peers is really Shallow.
2 AMA people, a Former Team Mgr, & 1 Rider.
Yep, 1 Former Pro Rider.
At their best, it’s at least 3-4 to 1 Rider.
That’s not Professional.
Compared to other Sports & Motorsports this is laughable.
There should be a minimum of 3 Former Pros.
Their opinions of what the 16 was thinking is silly.
Regardless of their so called proof, the 38 also was on the throttle, both were.
They need their eyes checked.
Why have Rules?
The right thing to do is use the Rule where 1 must re-enter where he exists.
Anything else is to subjective, opinionated, etc.
For me another in a long line of poorly handled AMA calls by those few in charge.
That’s not Professional.
For me, all the Top Manufacturers work way too hard to have such Amateurish Governing of the Sports Rules.
CRAZY.

ex pros dont automatically make good refs,  most don't even read the rule book, 

1
Dan-The-Man
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6/1/2024 12:11pm
Does anyone actually think Tom gained time going off the track? Last time I checked you don’t go off race line, off the track then jump...

Does anyone actually think Tom gained time going off the track? Last time I checked you don’t go off race line, off the track then jump back on and not lose time the same way Deegan did or didn’t,

Press516 wrote:
I don't think he did...  That's why I said the AMA needs to produce their data.  But unless someone else proves them wrong, we're looking at...

I don't think he did...  That's why I said the AMA needs to produce their data.  But unless someone else proves them wrong, we're looking at a bunch of opinions and nothing more.  I still think it was a no penalty for either situation.  The AMA came out and gave their reasoning, at this point we can only dispute it with opinion.  I'd like to see Andrew Short asked directly about the situation.

Exactly. We watch timed qualifying every week. You stuff the corner you lost time. Now if they want to say he gained advantage not time. Once again an advantage would be purposely missing an obstacle. 

1
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DonM
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6/1/2024 12:25pm
FGR01 wrote:
So, I guess we're just ignoring the 20 or so times He took this cheater line at the top of the hill and went totally outside...

So, I guess we're just ignoring the 20 or so times He took this cheater line at the top of the hill and went totally outside the yellow marker?   Go ahead and tell me it did not gain any advantage.

image-20240526082951-1

DonM wrote:

Jett was doing it too...some of you are trying too hard....

Magoofan wrote:
Same shit,  different week....

Same shit,  different week....

image-20240601110507-1

LOL!!! Welcome back!

1
3
Radical
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6/2/2024 12:42pm
Paul333 wrote:
I like RV's opnion. If you go off the track it should cost you time no matter what. You aren't on the race track. No matter...

I like RV's opnion.

If you go off the track it should cost you time no matter what. You aren't on the race track. No matter what you got to take a breather, relax, etc. 

This is how I feel also.  The fact Deegan lost time is not a reason to avoid a penalty.  He clearly accelerated when off the track...

This is how I feel also.  The fact Deegan lost time is not a reason to avoid a penalty.  He clearly accelerated when off the track two of the three times.  Of course you should lose time for leaving the course.  

Accelerating while off the track is not against the rules.  Accelerating in an unsafe manner is.

I believe when Deegan went off the track in the first moto, he did accelerate right away, realized what he did, then backed it down a lot, then re-entered the track safely.  My assumption is that he backed it down to make sure he lost time, and looked over in both instances to make sure he could enter the track safely.

I'm guessing in the first instance, that the AMA gave him a pass on accelerating right away because he slowed down a lot to make up for the time gained, then entered safely.

In the other instance, how Deegan and Vialle handled the excursion were dramatically different.  Vialle was close to full throttle the entire time he was off the track, and he didn't look over to make sure he was entering safely.  I can't think of a way to justify this one.  According to the rules, he earned the penalty.

Deegan had a small amount of roost, but was clearly not on the gas until just before entering the track.  He also looked to make sure there was room to enter safely.  That small amount of roost is going to happen unless your riding at the same speed you would in the pits, which is not required.  I believe he handled this excursion the way the AMA intends.

As I stated very early in this thread, the first instance is probably the most controversial.  I wish they would've covered that in the interview.

I've disagreed with many of the AMA's calls.  All things considered, I believe they got it right this time.

8
Paul333
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6/3/2024 11:40am
yak651 wrote:
RV was pinned plenty of times off the track so he knows how to gain an advantage, so like how he laid out the situations with...

RV was pinned plenty of times off the track so he knows how to gain an advantage, so like how he laid out the situations with video. Would really like @ML512 or another journalist to have Pelleter(sp?) sit in watch the video and explain…but I know that won’t happen

No offense to ML512 but a "Journalist" is the end all on the situation?

WTF?

mx317
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6/3/2024 12:25pm

I feel sorry for the dead horse's family watching it get beat for what seems like forever. RIP Trigger (or whatever the damn dead horse's name is). 

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