How local race promoters can bring more people to races and make the experience better.

4/8/2024 12:29pm
Rickyisms wrote:
How can local MX tracks gather a regular spectating crowd? Maybe it’s only in my area, but the only people watching the race in the stands...

How can local MX tracks gather a regular spectating crowd? Maybe it’s only in my area, but the only people watching the race in the stands at my local tracks have a direct relationship with someone on the track. Go to any local short track and 80% of the people in the stands don’t know anyone out there racing, but they pay their $15-$20 for a few hours worth of entertainment. 

Ever been to a dirt track oval ? The racing is intense, drivers banging on each other. The 900 hp engines sound awesome getting worked while...

Ever been to a dirt track oval ? The racing is intense, drivers banging on each other. The 900 hp engines sound awesome getting worked while drifting.  130 mph then kick it sideways the drivers r great.  Our local track got aprox 2,000 spectators in the 90,s . Full gate of 125a riders from iL. Tracks were more dangerous with great crashes.  20 min + 2 race maybe in A class but the rest should never b ovr 5 laps.  

Rickyisms wrote:
Yeah man. I’m at Eastbay raceway park at least two Saturdays a month. 1/3 dirt oval, tons of history there including the Winter Nationals which has...

Yeah man. I’m at Eastbay raceway park at least two Saturdays a month. 1/3 dirt oval, tons of history there including the Winter Nationals which has brought drivers in from all over the country to race for 6 nights a week for a little over a month. It looks like the property will change hands in October of this and unfortunately it looks like the Clay by the Bay will be no more. 

One of the media people covering the Ny. Race was an older guy from FL.  He asked me did you hear about the tour of hell ? I said no what is it ? He said for 30 nights drivers race in different states for 30 days straight, no day off.  I said sounds like a dream tour . 10 bucks to get in at Ny. They didn’t charge me because I said I walked ovr 1/2 a mile from the truck stop. After a 19 hr day hearing the cars your Adrenalin is pumping.  Stock car racing hung onto there tradition. local electrical co worth 500 mil sponsoring a car to bars & pizza restaurants.  Ever try to get a small buisness to sponsor 200 a week. They say they still race MX ? 

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1
JustMX
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4/8/2024 12:32pm Edited Date/Time 4/8/2024 3:32pm

EVERY promoter stopped reading at "less classes"...

He lost me at "I'm not a race promoter or track owner".

Not that there is not room for improvement and new ideas to try.

I can tell you hardly any of 3stroke's ideas are new. Most have been tried by a lot of promoters over the last 30 years.

And the fact that he did not understand how overhead doubled shows how unqualified he is to solve promoter problems.

It is a weird business where amongst other things, you are at the mercy of the weather and amateur national programs that really hamper genuine grass roots racing.

 

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3
4/8/2024 12:59pm
Rickyisms wrote:
How can local MX tracks gather a regular spectating crowd? Maybe it’s only in my area, but the only people watching the race in the stands...

How can local MX tracks gather a regular spectating crowd? Maybe it’s only in my area, but the only people watching the race in the stands at my local tracks have a direct relationship with someone on the track. Go to any local short track and 80% of the people in the stands don’t know anyone out there racing, but they pay their $15-$20 for a few hours worth of entertainment. 

Ever been to a dirt track oval ? The racing is intense, drivers banging on each other. The 900 hp engines sound awesome getting worked while...

Ever been to a dirt track oval ? The racing is intense, drivers banging on each other. The 900 hp engines sound awesome getting worked while drifting.  130 mph then kick it sideways the drivers r great.  Our local track got aprox 2,000 spectators in the 90,s . Full gate of 125a riders from iL. Tracks were more dangerous with great crashes.  20 min + 2 race maybe in A class but the rest should never b ovr 5 laps.  

the dirt short  tracks here race from 6pm till 10 during summer , so its a good tight  show, they dont have anymore than 1 kids class on the programme, 

 

we get only parents watching as we run so many kids classes,  they dont get paying  crowds at kids baseball either, 

1
joshd
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4/8/2024 2:02pm
joshd wrote:

It starts at the top. The useless AMA and MX Sports need a complete redo. 

LungButter wrote:
What does that have to do with it? TONS of local racing has absolutely nothing to do with the AMA.  I'm not even sure of a...

What does that have to do with it?

TONS of local racing has absolutely nothing to do with the AMA.  I'm not even sure of a track within 3 states of me, besides Washougal, that requires an AMA card.

Give some context please or we're just gonna assume you just wanted to look cool and take a shot at MXSports.

You stated it yourself. “Tons of local racing has nothing to do with the AMA” 

That right there lies the problem, they don’t help with shit. There use to be a track local to me, beautiful place, called stone county mx. Guy said he was tired of it draining his wallet and shut it down. He tried to do LLQ and the only one he said made out good from that is mx sports. I just don’t see how you can’t see if nothing else the people running this shit are incompetent. 

1

The Shop

moto839
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4/8/2024 2:24pm Edited Date/Time 4/8/2024 2:29pm

Its not the promoter's, it's the cost to get there....

2
lumpy790
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4/8/2024 2:31pm
joshd wrote:

It starts at the top. The useless AMA and MX Sports need a complete redo. 

as for LL they could split off the Vet classes and run them in between the Am national and the ATV national that's the next weekend.

2
4/8/2024 2:31pm
joshd wrote:

It starts at the top. The useless AMA and MX Sports need a complete redo. 

lumpy790 wrote:

as for LL they could split off the Vet classes and run them in between the Am national and the ATV national that's the next weekend.

Why is that needed?

1
wwdiii
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4/8/2024 2:31pm

I’d settle for more and cleaner Skid O Cans as a start!

Richy
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4/8/2024 3:06pm

Normalize putting people in the class they belong in.

They'll whine and say they'll go home, sure, but will they really?

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1
4/8/2024 4:12pm
moto839 wrote:

Its not the promoter's, it's the cost to get there....

Ovr 29k in expenses in 209 days on the rd. I,m gonna double check that #. It’s usually ovr 325 days but I was injured twice last yr. And wages r way down now.  Any big money big vet money races out there. Lol. When there is the track hands you a tax form. Make sure you spell your name differently & use a bogus ss number.  Good idea to use s different name for your ama card too. Ps don’t use the name Piff Johnson . Haha Thd irs has a team lookin for that guy. 

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cwel11
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4/8/2024 5:35pm
Richy wrote:

Normalize putting people in the class they belong in.

They'll whine and say they'll go home, sure, but will they really?

 The LL effect. Messes up the class structure of local amateur racing. Every C class kid scrubbing jumps and hucking everything on the track. Promotes massive sandbagging. 

12
zippytech
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4/8/2024 5:59pm

Maybe run the races in groups, so they know when they need to be there, like gp's do, No need to be there if not needed.

 

2
kage173
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4/8/2024 6:04pm

I like spending the day at the track. This isn't and never will be a stick and ball sport where you show up for an hour and a half.

In my opinion the biggest single thing that will improve attendance is building an actual bathroom. These poor wives, sisters, girlfriends, daughters and lady racers shoudnt have to squat in a port a potty over a giant pile of shit thats been marinating in 110 degree heat all day. If the ladies feel comfortable and welcome then the guys wont mind hanging out.

It blows me a way that the big tracks can build 5 different tracks and hook ups every where but wont put in a decent bathroom. 

10
lumpy790
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4/9/2024 7:17am
joshd wrote:

It starts at the top. The useless AMA and MX Sports need a complete redo. 

lumpy790 wrote:

as for LL they could split off the Vet classes and run them in between the Am national and the ATV national that's the next weekend.

Rickyisms wrote:

Why is that needed?

Track time starts at 7am and goes to 5 or 6pm. So many people and classes doing practice for 2 days then racing 3 motos .  Weather, medic, delays can really screw things up for getting racing done by the time the awards ceremony happens on Saturday afternoon.  

One reason is there simply is not enough room by the track for everyone to pit any more. You have to be there to really understand just how many people are there. They ran out of room years ago and now People have to pit all the way down by Lorettas House about 1-2 miles away and ride the bikes back and forth to get to the track.

by splitting it up it will reduce the amount of people that are all there at the same time. 

1
MxAddic
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4/9/2024 7:24am
JustMX wrote:
He lost me at "I'm not a race promoter or track owner". Not that there is not room for improvement and new ideas to try. I...

He lost me at "I'm not a race promoter or track owner".

Not that there is not room for improvement and new ideas to try.

I can tell you hardly any of 3stroke's ideas are new. Most have been tried by a lot of promoters over the last 30 years.

And the fact that he did not understand how overhead doubled shows how unqualified he is to solve promoter problems.

It is a weird business where amongst other things, you are at the mercy of the weather and amateur national programs that really hamper genuine grass roots racing.

 

Spoken like a track owner..

One of the big problem I see is folks like 3stroker get in the track owners ear and cry about need to do this and that. The owner makes changes to pacify them only to alienate the rest of the riders causing them to stop showing up and the original complainers go MIA on him.

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jndmx
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4/9/2024 7:33am Edited Date/Time 4/9/2024 7:59am

I've been announcing for local race series events here for 20 years, a few tracks up here in New England have tried this splitting the days thing with kids one day and vets/big bikes the next and it hasn't ever really caught on.

Yes some people like it, generally your single racer that comes to the track alone or with a few buddies that are the same age.

Families are the majority of the local race track crowd and for them the split days makes every race weekend a double header.

It seems like a good idea but the reality of it just doesn't seem as popular.

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LungButter
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4/9/2024 7:50am
joshd wrote:
You stated it yourself. “Tons of local racing has nothing to do with the AMA”  That right there lies the problem, they don’t help with shit...

You stated it yourself. “Tons of local racing has nothing to do with the AMA” 

That right there lies the problem, they don’t help with shit. There use to be a track local to me, beautiful place, called stone county mx. Guy said he was tired of it draining his wallet and shut it down. He tried to do LLQ and the only one he said made out good from that is mx sports. I just don’t see how you can’t see if nothing else the people running this shit are incompetent. 

So the AMA and MXSports are the problem but we need them to get more involved with local racing to fix the problem?

Got it.

3
joshd
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4/9/2024 8:23am
joshd wrote:
You stated it yourself. “Tons of local racing has nothing to do with the AMA”  That right there lies the problem, they don’t help with shit...

You stated it yourself. “Tons of local racing has nothing to do with the AMA” 

That right there lies the problem, they don’t help with shit. There use to be a track local to me, beautiful place, called stone county mx. Guy said he was tired of it draining his wallet and shut it down. He tried to do LLQ and the only one he said made out good from that is mx sports. I just don’t see how you can’t see if nothing else the people running this shit are incompetent. 

LungButter wrote:

So the AMA and MXSports are the problem but we need them to get more involved with local racing to fix the problem?

Got it.

You can do word play and mental gymnastics all you want. I stand by what I said. The AMA and Mx Sports need to HELP local tracks. Helping is not charging a fee. Tracks are disappearing left and right. I use to have 6 within an hour of my house. My counties population has grown by 30% since Covid. My closest track is now 2 hours away. 
 

If you want to so admittedly defend them tell what good they do. 

3
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LungButter
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4/9/2024 8:30am
joshd wrote:
You can do word play and mental gymnastics all you want. I stand by what I said. The AMA and Mx Sports need to HELP local...

You can do word play and mental gymnastics all you want. I stand by what I said. The AMA and Mx Sports need to HELP local tracks. Helping is not charging a fee. Tracks are disappearing left and right. I use to have 6 within an hour of my house. My counties population has grown by 30% since Covid. My closest track is now 2 hours away. 
 

If you want to so admittedly defend them tell what good they do. 

Me doing word play?

Bro....you are the one that said they are the problem.... I called you out on why and your answer was that they are the solution.  

I dunno, you win I guess even though I don't have a fucking clue what you're saying or defending. If you think the AMA is gonna cover fees for tracks operating costs so they don't have to pass them along to the users you are clueless bud.

6
BoxcarWilly
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4/9/2024 8:51am

I've always thought about saving money on trophies for adult classes that just end up in a box in the attic anyway.

Lower entry fees for multiple classes for those that want more track time. I can race 250A, Open A, +25 A and 122-125 2T in a day, but I don't want to pay $160 to do that. I'm already at the track racing one or two classes, and you're already hosting these classes, why not give me a break and make some money instead of none? 

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joshd
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4/9/2024 9:36am
joshd wrote:
You can do word play and mental gymnastics all you want. I stand by what I said. The AMA and Mx Sports need to HELP local...

You can do word play and mental gymnastics all you want. I stand by what I said. The AMA and Mx Sports need to HELP local tracks. Helping is not charging a fee. Tracks are disappearing left and right. I use to have 6 within an hour of my house. My counties population has grown by 30% since Covid. My closest track is now 2 hours away. 
 

If you want to so admittedly defend them tell what good they do. 

LungButter wrote:
Me doing word play? Bro....you are the one that said they are the problem.... I called you out on why and your answer was that they...

Me doing word play?

Bro....you are the one that said they are the problem.... I called you out on why and your answer was that they are the solution.  

I dunno, you win I guess even though I don't have a fucking clue what you're saying or defending. If you think the AMA is gonna cover fees for tracks operating costs so they don't have to pass them along to the users you are clueless bud.

Them not helping is the problem! Why is that so confusing to you. 

1
LungButter
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4/9/2024 10:00am
joshd wrote:

Them not helping is the problem! Why is that so confusing to you. 

What the fuck are they gonna help with?

How are they gonna help tracks that have NOTHING to do with the AMA?  You do have the brainpower to understand that TONS of tracks have literally ZERO to with the AMA right?

If you think they are gonna cover costs for tracks like you previously said....with all due respect, that's just stupid and never going to happen so don't be a dumb ass and present that as a solution because it just shows stupidity.

4
JustMX
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4/9/2024 12:30pm Edited Date/Time 4/9/2024 2:00pm
joshd wrote:

Them not helping is the problem! Why is that so confusing to you. 

LungButter wrote:
What the fuck are they gonna help with? How are they gonna help tracks that have NOTHING to do with the AMA?  You do have the...

What the fuck are they gonna help with?

How are they gonna help tracks that have NOTHING to do with the AMA?  You do have the brainpower to understand that TONS of tracks have literally ZERO to with the AMA right?

If you think they are gonna cover costs for tracks like you previously said....with all due respect, that's just stupid and never going to happen so don't be a dumb ass and present that as a solution because it just shows stupidity.

I am with LungButter on this one.

I ran over 400 races when I was a promoter, maybe 10-20% were ama, depending on the year.

advantages of running ama are that insurance was much easier to get, and a bit cheaper. 

If you could get a LLQ thy were usually pretty good events, but as they grew they got tougher to get and AMA started being more selective in which tracks got them because some were getting them that were completely unqualified as far as experience and preparation.

Advantages of running non AMA. You did not have to get involved in the politics of local AMA districts, and there were plenty.

You could change rules, Like if a bike broke down, they could ride another machine. There were a lot of other ones that I did differently because I felt they helped make it better for entry level racers.

It would be hard for a national organization to offer the flexibility that non AMA allows. 

That is not a shortcoming of the AMA. That is reality.

I am not sure what you think the AMA can do to help your local tracks survive. 

It is a tough business that a lot fail to research before they come into it with a lot of big ideas.

On top of that since covid land values have gone through the roof in a lot of areas. existing tracks like mill creek see a chance to cash out that might not come back in their lifetime, and new tracks face an even higher cost to start up.

That might explain why tracks in your area are closing and a lack of new ones, but it certainly has nothing to do with the AMA.

 

2
oceantrav
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4/9/2024 1:02pm
joshd wrote:

It starts at the top. The useless AMA and MX Sports need a complete redo. 

lumpy790 wrote:

as for LL they could split off the Vet classes and run them in between the Am national and the ATV national that's the next weekend.

Get rid of the C classes too!

1
1
JustMX
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4/9/2024 1:18pm
oceantrav wrote:

Get rid of the C classes too!

Never going to happen, C = cash.......

2
oceantrav
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4/9/2024 1:35pm
oceantrav wrote:

Get rid of the C classes too!

JustMX wrote:

Never going to happen, C = cash.......

Oh, I know money is the reason. Funny watching these 16 year old kids living at facilities just to race C class lol

 

honestly I’m surprised there’s not more C classes. Why only 125, 250/450 and some vets. Why not 65 C, 85 C etc….

3
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kage173
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4/9/2024 2:38pm
JustMX wrote:
I am with LungButter on this one. I ran over 400 races when I was a promoter, maybe 10-20% were ama, depending on the year. advantages...

I am with LungButter on this one.

I ran over 400 races when I was a promoter, maybe 10-20% were ama, depending on the year.

advantages of running ama are that insurance was much easier to get, and a bit cheaper. 

If you could get a LLQ thy were usually pretty good events, but as they grew they got tougher to get and AMA started being more selective in which tracks got them because some were getting them that were completely unqualified as far as experience and preparation.

Advantages of running non AMA. You did not have to get involved in the politics of local AMA districts, and there were plenty.

You could change rules, Like if a bike broke down, they could ride another machine. There were a lot of other ones that I did differently because I felt they helped make it better for entry level racers.

It would be hard for a national organization to offer the flexibility that non AMA allows. 

That is not a shortcoming of the AMA. That is reality.

I am not sure what you think the AMA can do to help your local tracks survive. 

It is a tough business that a lot fail to research before they come into it with a lot of big ideas.

On top of that since covid land values have gone through the roof in a lot of areas. existing tracks like mill creek see a chance to cash out that might not come back in their lifetime, and new tracks face an even higher cost to start up.

That might explain why tracks in your area are closing and a lack of new ones, but it certainly has nothing to do with the AMA.

 

Question. Do tracks turn a profit? I see 3 business models in my region

1. Rich parents have a teenager whos putting in thhe work so they buy a track to get him pro...usually one of the big ones. They bring in big equipment and really put $ into the place. They promote big races and do a great job for 5-10 years until junior does or doesnt make it.  All of a sudden equipment isnt getting maintained and tracks go downhill. Then they sell to the next rich family. That tells me they're not making $

2. Same as 1, but its a training facility charging a few thousand a month. Maybe 10 riders living there and 

3. Not a rich family, but have some land. Equipment is small but adequate and mostly running. There are  few amenities, but track is open often. Jumps are much smaller and easier to build because of the smaller equipment and less diesel cost for prep. Water is available but applied sparingly. They hold some local races but mostly its practice day vet riders. 

Id guess that 1 & 2 are losing their ass and #3 is scraping by. Or am I wrong? Ive known 4 people who ran tracks and they all did it for the love. They didnt make anything. 

2
oceantrav
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4/10/2024 5:43pm
JustMX wrote:
I am with LungButter on this one. I ran over 400 races when I was a promoter, maybe 10-20% were ama, depending on the year. advantages...

I am with LungButter on this one.

I ran over 400 races when I was a promoter, maybe 10-20% were ama, depending on the year.

advantages of running ama are that insurance was much easier to get, and a bit cheaper. 

If you could get a LLQ thy were usually pretty good events, but as they grew they got tougher to get and AMA started being more selective in which tracks got them because some were getting them that were completely unqualified as far as experience and preparation.

Advantages of running non AMA. You did not have to get involved in the politics of local AMA districts, and there were plenty.

You could change rules, Like if a bike broke down, they could ride another machine. There were a lot of other ones that I did differently because I felt they helped make it better for entry level racers.

It would be hard for a national organization to offer the flexibility that non AMA allows. 

That is not a shortcoming of the AMA. That is reality.

I am not sure what you think the AMA can do to help your local tracks survive. 

It is a tough business that a lot fail to research before they come into it with a lot of big ideas.

On top of that since covid land values have gone through the roof in a lot of areas. existing tracks like mill creek see a chance to cash out that might not come back in their lifetime, and new tracks face an even higher cost to start up.

That might explain why tracks in your area are closing and a lack of new ones, but it certainly has nothing to do with the AMA.

 

kage173 wrote:
Question. Do tracks turn a profit? I see 3 business models in my region 1. Rich parents have a teenager whos putting in thhe work so...

Question. Do tracks turn a profit? I see 3 business models in my region

1. Rich parents have a teenager whos putting in thhe work so they buy a track to get him pro...usually one of the big ones. They bring in big equipment and really put $ into the place. They promote big races and do a great job for 5-10 years until junior does or doesnt make it.  All of a sudden equipment isnt getting maintained and tracks go downhill. Then they sell to the next rich family. That tells me they're not making $

2. Same as 1, but its a training facility charging a few thousand a month. Maybe 10 riders living there and 

3. Not a rich family, but have some land. Equipment is small but adequate and mostly running. There are  few amenities, but track is open often. Jumps are much smaller and easier to build because of the smaller equipment and less diesel cost for prep. Water is available but applied sparingly. They hold some local races but mostly its practice day vet riders. 

Id guess that 1 & 2 are losing their ass and #3 is scraping by. Or am I wrong? Ive known 4 people who ran tracks and they all did it for the love. They didnt make anything. 

The rich owner tracks are nice, got one main one  in Florida, two locations. I’m sure the owner uses it as a tax write off for other businesses they have or something. No way they make any profit. Sweet tracks though!
 

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1
davis224
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Fantasy
4/10/2024 5:55pm
I've always thought about saving money on trophies for adult classes that just end up in a box in the attic anyway. Lower entry fees for...

I've always thought about saving money on trophies for adult classes that just end up in a box in the attic anyway.

Lower entry fees for multiple classes for those that want more track time. I can race 250A, Open A, +25 A and 122-125 2T in a day, but I don't want to pay $160 to do that. I'm already at the track racing one or two classes, and you're already hosting these classes, why not give me a break and make some money instead of none? 

I like this. 3rd class half off?

2
crusher773
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2020
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Coweta, OK, USA
4/10/2024 6:41pm

So a 125 schoolboy rider has to race against 450 A riders.  Don't see what could go wrong there.

2

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