In Vital's eyes, is the KTM a bad bike now?

Everyone thinks they suck now, and the Yamaha guys with 2 450 championship worldwide in the modern 4 stroke era is the best. 

NO

Maybe it's Chase?

People just like to talk shit. It’s rubbish, don’t take any notice.

Again... the Vital forum is not a source to gather a jury pool and seek a verdict. 

Definitely. It's taken him a long time to sort the bike out. Yes, I know Tomac and Webb were instantly better moving to Yamaha. That's them. Chase was getting better every week until his injury and now that the injury is better, he's again getting better every week

Plessinger looks better than he's ever looked on a 450 now

Different bikes work for different riders. Look at Kenny on the Suzuki. There are no bad 450’s these days. 

Maybe it's more about the rider than the bike!

Its hard to argue there isn't an issue with the Austrian bikes. Barcia, Sexton, Mookie, 3 different "brands" all not nearly as good as last year.

For me they are perfect, I own three. For a pro rider like Chase his results dictate not so much. He has been on the bike for six months and is still chasing set-up, what is he building? Webb's experience and struggles with the team are well documented as well. Their 250 program has had mixed results with a former 2-time world champ like Vialle having a hard time finding his footing in a class with mixed talent, and other riders not being able to get going on the Austrian 250 either.

Chase is just a bitch. Wine and cry over his 250,000 motorcycle 🤯💩

The issue is they can’t ride 

"Webb's experience and struggles with the team are well documented as well"

Are we talking about the same two-time 450cc AMA Supercross Champion while riding a KTM Cooper Webb?

Those bikes have little in common with a stock bike, if they cannot get the bike working for them…. It’s on them or their testing methods…all of the stock bikes are plenty good enough for the average racer. Perception plays a big role on how bikes are viewed. Be cool to see the 250 class be a minimal mod, stock class for Sx. 

Isn't Barcia still on the old frame and only difference is he's using 48mm forks instead of the 52s? If he's still on the old frame this year and he's not as good this year, then I don't think its the bike...

By bike I mean the frame as thats what everyone is alluding too obviously.

Plus he was sick with some kind of leprosy or some shit 😅

I feel like you couldn’t be more wrong. He is open, honest and mostly owns it as a rider, and as a team. Also works hard to improve the bike. A refreshing straight shooter. Does *whine or cry about it. 

Chase is 3rd right behind Webb. After Indy (round 10) last year he was also in 3rd, 14 points behind Tomac and 17 behind Webb. This year he is 4 points behind Webb and 11 points ahead of Tomac after round 10. He is having a better year this year compared to those two even including an injury that was definitely slowing him down at the end of races. Sure he is 25 points behind Jett, but he didn't race Jett last year so we don't know how that would have turned out.

As previously stated Barcia is on a bike nearly identical to last year and so is Mookie (who missed most of the season).

It’s funny he put that kyb stuff in there and instantly a bit better. I think other than the air fork crap the bike is legit. 

KTM, Deegan, Jett and Vince are all bad according to Vital...you better comply or get downvoted..

Sexton post race interview with vital was pretty down on the bike. He almost sounds regretful that he made a switch. 

AP this year is proving that the KTM bike this year is legit!

if people don’t understand that Chase has ridden a Honda his whole career and now “almost there” in less than 1 year on the KTM…..they don’t understand mx racing at the Pro level!

I thought he was more down on himself than the bike!

he thought he was so good that it wouldn’t matter, he found out he’s not that good but is hoping to catch up!

The orange pig??

I agree 100% that the 250 class should be a limited class.  No engine mods, locked ECU’s, pipes, revalved/sprung OEM suspension, any handlebar, grips, tires and seat.  It keeps the cost down and we as consumers win because it forces the manufactures to keep up their game, or get left behind.

First off, the Factory team bikes are modified in every way possible to make them fit the rider better. So in general, the results at the top level are not the best indicator of if a production bike is good or not. 

I think Chase just has not found the best setup for him yet. And Jett is making it look worse than it might be.  Chase was on Honda's for a very long time  too. Plus his hand injury.  If You remove the hand injury, and Jetty from the class I think he doesn't look so bad.   

Not saying it’s bad but they have been throwing the kitchen sink at that bike for the last 3 years. Mid generation frame updates aren’t the norm really & massive suspension changes must indicate that at some level there is something very hard to figure out with the bike to get some/most of their riders able to feel comfortable running top speed. 

Clear as day.

Suzuki = Bad because it wasn't updated after 2019.

KTM = Bad because it was updated after 2019.

Without Jett it’s pretty close!