That track sucked

3/10/2024 2:47pm
I'm open minded on this one but people are having a hard time justifying the thought process of dumbing down the track for rain.  If their...

I'm open minded on this one but people are having a hard time justifying the thought process of dumbing down the track for rain.  If their mindset was to prepare for a San Francisco scenario, what difference would it have made in the racing?  The racing would still be shit no matter how much they try to control it, SF was proof.  Mudders are always going to race like mudders, period.  Mudders are going to happen and you can't control it unless you are in a covered stadium, it's part of the sport.  Ruts on a muddy flat track or ruts over muddy jumps, it's the same battle with the only difference being you might have one rider excel and actually do some of the jumps.   Is this a bad thing to have a rider separate himself, or do you want them all to be even and not offer a chance to separate themselves?  Were they not duck paddling in San Francisco after they flattened the whoops?

So if it's up to you or anyone else who agrees with dumbing down the tracks for rain, would you not like to see a race like this where most of the world's best struggle while another one of the world's best excelled and lapped the field?  If they flattened all the jumps RC wouldn't have had anything to jump to show his pure dominance that day (or set a record). Would you prefer to cancel a race like this now or any supercross like SF if there's a big storm in the forecast?  Mudders have a way of shaking things up, and changing the tracks won't change a thing.  Watch SF for reference, they already tried it and it changed nothing.

 

 

  Just because mud races make for worse racing, that doesn't mean they should not try to make the racing better.  If anything shouldn't that be...

 

Just because mud races make for worse racing, that doesn't mean they should not try to make the racing better.  If anything shouldn't that be more of a reason to try and make it better?  Or nah just forget it. I would say that a whoop section with 4 guys down, blocking the entire track. And guys going off the track , crashing in them. Seems like removing a section that causes so many issues when wet is a good idea to try.   

Don't bother watering a track because it sucks when its dusty. A dusty track just sucks, its the weather deal with it.

 

Don't bother grooming the tracks ever again either. 

 

Never try anything new , if something sucks , its just gonna keep on sucking.   

 

    As cool as it was to see RC lap second. Wouldn't it have been more exciting if you had 4 guys on the lead lap, with 3 of them battling back and forth instead of a total runaway? 

 

How would Jett lapping second place last night have been more exciting? It would have been history. But a close race with 4 guys finishing within a few seconds of each other would be more exciting to me anyway. 

 

Was the track last night the best it could be? Who knows. But I'm glad they are trying to make things better. Rather than just leaving things alone. Things would never happen if everybody just left things as they always have been. You try new stuff, sometimes it works, sometimes You need another try. 

 

Are you forgetting they tried to "fix it" in San Francisco for the mud race and it didn't work?  Did you not watch SF and realized...

Are you forgetting they tried to "fix it" in San Francisco for the mud race and it didn't work?  Did you not watch SF and realized they dumbed down the track to make it for better racing?  Well, it didn't work and never will in the mud.  Mud racing is mud racing.  If it was so easy to make tracks with good racing, they would start with dry tracks and we would always have good racing every weekend on the dry tracks.  But no, it's hard to predict even in the dry so don't even think you are going to make for good racing in the mud.  For everyone arguing the point, they tried what you guys are claiming to do, and....it didn't work.  Were there 4 guys battling for the lead and finishing within a few seconds of each other in SF???  No, not even close.  

Show me a mud race that was better on dumbed down track.  You can't because it doesn't happen.  Mud races will be mud races and there will be plenty of carnage and upsets.  So leave the tracks alone and give some of the men an opportunity to separate themselves.  I'm guessing you guys also want to remove the quad from Daytona to make the racing better?   Only one guy was doing it and it was dangerous right?  "Flatten the quad, I want to see 4 guys battling for the lead"...this is the same stupidity you guys are arguing for.  

Here the SF results in case you didn't watch it.  Take a look at those gaps, and learn:

Screenshot 2024-03-10 at 1.53.13%E2%80%AFPM.png?VersionId=QgfDzLQpyxlTKCDqo

 

They removed the whoops at SF.  and did it as a last minute thing. Anything they were doing was a band aid. And do you really think that leaving the whoops in would have made the racing better?

If it made less places to pass, more places a less skilled racer could knock down another rider or buck into another lane .  I can remember more than a few times that a rider took out another rider in a mud race in whoops. Almost happens at every mud race.   

 

They Built the entire track from the start to handle water better at this round. And work better in a heavier rain  Since there was not a lot of heavy rain , who knows if it would have worked better or not.  The track itself looked a lot less muddy than SF right?

 

I have worked with heavy equipment and built tracks, trails, real roads.   There are ways You can grade, compact or not compact, etc. To deal with excess water.  After the dirt turns into mud, You are much more limited with what You are able to do with it. Even just building the track to minimize puddles will help a lot!  Eliminating areas that would have standing water allows they to keep the dirt drier and be able to groom the track better.  

 

Outdoor tracks HAVE been preparing tracks for weather for years now. Rolling and packing a track in to allow it to shed water . Instead of ripping it deep and making it soak up all the water. All of those low spots beside the track to allow water to drain. etc.

They do not build an SX track at a national, or an outdoor style track in a stadium. Why build a track that was designed for dry weather  when its gonna rain?  Wouldn't the evolution of the sport to be making a rain option? Like F! has rain tires. SX could have rain tracks.

3/10/2024 3:44pm

stated earlier, level the whoops if rain destroys 

have enough dirt in the corners to have a shot at an outside and inside line

it's the south, if you don't like the weather wait 30 minutes. 

I agree that preparing is a very good idea, but this seemed like a bad decision/strategy

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Stewyeww
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3/10/2024 3:44pm

Soft dirt, deep lugs on tires, high power bikes accelerating hard......it's not the track

Crush
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3/10/2024 5:54pm Edited Date/Time 3/10/2024 5:55pm

A lot of slight turns on straight aways and more so turning the same way limit what are typically good passing spots...

The designers/DW/Feld whomever should know by now that 4 strokes will all just the inside if they can.

There has to be more effort to make a reason to change lines. Needed a berm before that rhythm. Insides gotta have bigger lips or rollers to make the line change etc.

Not easy but also you do this 17 times a year every year. You'd like to see them work on some patterns that work.

6

The Shop

brocster
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3/10/2024 7:00pm

BDB

forget the outdoor race we’re talking SX, SX mudders

you keep bringing up SF, but by the time they tried to make changes it was already too wet and it sucked

the lap times you posted show that they suck

1 good mud rider doesn’t make it a race, and the worlds best duck walking their bikes over obstacles sucks for them and the majority of viewers. . 

as mentioned this is my opinion and preference contrary to your lust for mudders but in no way would I call someone stupid for expressing their opinion, but hey boss, you do you. 

3/10/2024 7:43pm
brocster wrote:
BDB forget the outdoor race we’re talking SX, SX mudders you keep bringing up SF, but by the time they tried to make changes it was...

BDB

forget the outdoor race we’re talking SX, SX mudders

you keep bringing up SF, but by the time they tried to make changes it was already too wet and it sucked

the lap times you posted show that they suck

1 good mud rider doesn’t make it a race, and the worlds best duck walking their bikes over obstacles sucks for them and the majority of viewers. . 

as mentioned this is my opinion and preference contrary to your lust for mudders but in no way would I call someone stupid for expressing their opinion, but hey boss, you do you. 

Yes, SX mudders I'm referring to, which are very similar to outdoor mudders when you talk about the quality of racing for the fans.  Just like the last 30* years of mudders in SX, when did they flatten all the obstacles the tracks?  Mudders (SX and MX) usually suck from a "tight racing" perspective.  With that said, how are you going to fix it and guarantee good mud racing?  You think racing around on a flat oval with deep ruts will make for great racing?  It won't.

How about San Diego SX, that was a mudder as well.  They kept small whoops and there was actually better racing compared to San Francisco when they bulldozed the whoops.  And if you watch San Diego, the guys weren't falling in the whoops, they were falling in the rhythm sections.  So do you want to flatten everything since Sexton and Malcolm fell in the rhythm section and caused a pile up?

What is the solution you are proposing because I'm confused?  It sounds like you are stating that when it rains they should make flat SX tracks with no obstacles because it will result in good mud SX racing??   

I'm providing facts from recent mudders, and you guys are just throwing out hypotheticals as if flattening a track will make for better racing in the mud.  It didn't and it doesn't.  See San Francisco with no whoops compared to San Diego with whoops.  San Diego racing was closer.  So what now?

 

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brocster
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3/10/2024 8:13pm
brocster wrote:
BDB forget the outdoor race we’re talking SX, SX mudders you keep bringing up SF, but by the time they tried to make changes it was...

BDB

forget the outdoor race we’re talking SX, SX mudders

you keep bringing up SF, but by the time they tried to make changes it was already too wet and it sucked

the lap times you posted show that they suck

1 good mud rider doesn’t make it a race, and the worlds best duck walking their bikes over obstacles sucks for them and the majority of viewers. . 

as mentioned this is my opinion and preference contrary to your lust for mudders but in no way would I call someone stupid for expressing their opinion, but hey boss, you do you. 

Yes, SX mudders I'm referring to, which are very similar to outdoor mudders when you talk about the quality of racing for the fans.  Just like...

Yes, SX mudders I'm referring to, which are very similar to outdoor mudders when you talk about the quality of racing for the fans.  Just like the last 30* years of mudders in SX, when did they flatten all the obstacles the tracks?  Mudders (SX and MX) usually suck from a "tight racing" perspective.  With that said, how are you going to fix it and guarantee good mud racing?  You think racing around on a flat oval with deep ruts will make for great racing?  It won't.

How about San Diego SX, that was a mudder as well.  They kept small whoops and there was actually better racing compared to San Francisco when they bulldozed the whoops.  And if you watch San Diego, the guys weren't falling in the whoops, they were falling in the rhythm sections.  So do you want to flatten everything since Sexton and Malcolm fell in the rhythm section and caused a pile up?

What is the solution you are proposing because I'm confused?  It sounds like you are stating that when it rains they should make flat SX tracks with no obstacles because it will result in good mud SX racing??   

I'm providing facts from recent mudders, and you guys are just throwing out hypotheticals as if flattening a track will make for better racing in the mud.  It didn't and it doesn't.  See San Francisco with no whoops compared to San Diego with whoops.  San Diego racing was closer.  So what now?

 

Your insinuation skills suck along with mudders

 

3/10/2024 10:00pm
brocster wrote:
BDB forget the outdoor race we’re talking SX, SX mudders you keep bringing up SF, but by the time they tried to make changes it was...

BDB

forget the outdoor race we’re talking SX, SX mudders

you keep bringing up SF, but by the time they tried to make changes it was already too wet and it sucked

the lap times you posted show that they suck

1 good mud rider doesn’t make it a race, and the worlds best duck walking their bikes over obstacles sucks for them and the majority of viewers. . 

as mentioned this is my opinion and preference contrary to your lust for mudders but in no way would I call someone stupid for expressing their opinion, but hey boss, you do you. 

Yes, SX mudders I'm referring to, which are very similar to outdoor mudders when you talk about the quality of racing for the fans.  Just like...

Yes, SX mudders I'm referring to, which are very similar to outdoor mudders when you talk about the quality of racing for the fans.  Just like the last 30* years of mudders in SX, when did they flatten all the obstacles the tracks?  Mudders (SX and MX) usually suck from a "tight racing" perspective.  With that said, how are you going to fix it and guarantee good mud racing?  You think racing around on a flat oval with deep ruts will make for great racing?  It won't.

How about San Diego SX, that was a mudder as well.  They kept small whoops and there was actually better racing compared to San Francisco when they bulldozed the whoops.  And if you watch San Diego, the guys weren't falling in the whoops, they were falling in the rhythm sections.  So do you want to flatten everything since Sexton and Malcolm fell in the rhythm section and caused a pile up?

What is the solution you are proposing because I'm confused?  It sounds like you are stating that when it rains they should make flat SX tracks with no obstacles because it will result in good mud SX racing??   

I'm providing facts from recent mudders, and you guys are just throwing out hypotheticals as if flattening a track will make for better racing in the mud.  It didn't and it doesn't.  See San Francisco with no whoops compared to San Diego with whoops.  San Diego racing was closer.  So what now?

 

brocster wrote:

Your insinuation skills suck along with mudders

 

I get it, you don't like mudders, not many people do.  But this doesn't mean they should flatten the track and remove obstacles for mudders in hopes that it will make the racing better.  I've provided proof it didn't work in SF, and also proof from San Diego that it was just the opposite.  The racing was better on a muddy track with whoops, it's there for you guys to watch the replays.

With that said if it's still your mentality to make tracks easier in hopes of better racing, then do you realize you are advocating for removing the quad at Daytona '24??  Is that what you really want as a fan?  It's the exact same scenario.  

Just curious.  Because as a Tomac fan, I can't imagine wanting to remove quads from every SX track so that Jett won't have an opportunity to jump them and separate himself to win the race.  May the best man win, with all obstacles in place.

tek14
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3/11/2024 1:20am

Long lines, 180 turns, long whoops = better racing. 

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philG
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3/11/2024 1:28am
Yes, and this is lame.  There's nothing safer than adding water to an SX track, just look at the two mudders this year, perfectly safe.  No...

Yes, and this is lame.  There's nothing safer than adding water to an SX track, just look at the two mudders this year, perfectly safe.  No need to remove the 9 jumping bumps, these are the best riders in the world and they should have to deal with the elements and struggle through them during a mud race.

This year should have an asterisk on it to identify the new era of Supercross:

No more dragon's backs***
No more proper whoop sections******************
Former whoops have been changed to a 9 bump design***
No more skimming, just jump through 9 bumps***
No more sets of 9 bumps when there's rain in the forecast***
If it rains and 9 bumps have already been made, bulldoze them to make it easier***

What else am I missing?

Common sense. 

 

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CPR
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3/11/2024 2:48am

What I don’t understand is why the track was built without the whoops? Yeah I know it was because of forecast rain, but if you still put the whoops in and then you don’t get as much rain as expected, and the track doesn’t end up as a mudder (as happened), you’re all good to go.
If it does turn into a mudder, you take them out. I mean how long does it take to knock down a set of muddy whoops? They canceled practice, so they had time if they needed to do it.

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SonofThor32
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3/11/2024 7:05am
Gator724 wrote:
Knew it was gonna be terrible as soon as I played it on mx bikes. Really sucks bc the Atlanta speedway had delivered every year and...

Knew it was gonna be terrible as soon as I played it on mx bikes. Really sucks bc the Atlanta speedway had delivered every year and they just took it away for no reason 

It will be interesting to see where this ends up next year. The reason I am saying that, the stands were full at Birmingham.  I am not saying that was not the case for Atlanta, but it is easy for them to bring it back to Birmingham, especially when the venue makes it easy for Feld to run Supercross and Monster Jam back to back like they do, it is their recipe for $$ success.  
 

3/11/2024 7:10am

Am I the only one noticing the tracks ALL YEAR have been soft as hell?

Bring back lime already!

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Zycki11
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3/11/2024 7:16am
Maybe they should have talked about it on the broadcast, maybe they did and I missed it. But they changed the track design because of the...

Maybe they should have talked about it on the broadcast, maybe they did and I missed it. But they changed the track design because of the rain that was expected.   They changed it so they would have a safer, more raceable track if it turned into a major mud race.  By the time they can see what the storm is going to do, there is not enough time to make major track changes.  

 

Bingo, they alienate the things that are a big deal and continue with shit production. Bondo must go 

Gator724
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3/11/2024 7:37am
Gator724 wrote:
Knew it was gonna be terrible as soon as I played it on mx bikes. Really sucks bc the Atlanta speedway had delivered every year and...

Knew it was gonna be terrible as soon as I played it on mx bikes. Really sucks bc the Atlanta speedway had delivered every year and they just took it away for no reason 

It will be interesting to see where this ends up next year. The reason I am saying that, the stands were full at Birmingham.  I am...

It will be interesting to see where this ends up next year. The reason I am saying that, the stands were full at Birmingham.  I am not saying that was not the case for Atlanta, but it is easy for them to bring it back to Birmingham, especially when the venue makes it easy for Feld to run Supercross and Monster Jam back to back like they do, it is their recipe for $$ success.  
 

The whole upper deck was EMPTY. The stadium only seats like 45k 

Gator724
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3/11/2024 7:43am
Gator724 wrote:
Knew it was gonna be terrible as soon as I played it on mx bikes. Really sucks bc the Atlanta speedway had delivered every year and...

Knew it was gonna be terrible as soon as I played it on mx bikes. Really sucks bc the Atlanta speedway had delivered every year and they just took it away for no reason 

It will be interesting to see where this ends up next year. The reason I am saying that, the stands were full at Birmingham.  I am...

It will be interesting to see where this ends up next year. The reason I am saying that, the stands were full at Birmingham.  I am not saying that was not the case for Atlanta, but it is easy for them to bring it back to Birmingham, especially when the venue makes it easy for Feld to run Supercross and Monster Jam back to back like they do, it is their recipe for $$ success.  
 

Gator724 wrote:

The whole upper deck was EMPTY. The stadium only seats like 45k 

They either need to go back to Atlanta, or maybe try Jacksonville or something. Hell maybe even at the noles stadium even tho I hate them bc I’m a gator😂 

3/11/2024 8:13am
Gator724 wrote:

The whole upper deck was EMPTY. The stadium only seats like 45k 

They were only selling tickets on like the lower rows in the corners of the upper deck.  I know this because originally I intended on getting ~50 yard line front row upper deck tickets (don't like being blocked by people standing up) but that whole section was un-purchasable 4 weeks ago...

I ended up going lower deck front row (closest to where the whoops would've been).  Lower deck was packed except for the corner closest to the start gate from what I was seeing.  Looked like strong ticket sales to me, especially given the forecast undoubtedly steering some away.

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Gator724
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3/11/2024 8:19am
Gator724 wrote:

The whole upper deck was EMPTY. The stadium only seats like 45k 

StankBooty wrote:
They were only selling tickets on like the lower rows in the corners of the upper deck.  I know this because originally I intended on getting...

They were only selling tickets on like the lower rows in the corners of the upper deck.  I know this because originally I intended on getting ~50 yard line front row upper deck tickets (don't like being blocked by people standing up) but that whole section was un-purchasable 4 weeks ago...

I ended up going lower deck front row (closest to where the whoops would've been).  Lower deck was packed except for the corner closest to the start gate from what I was seeing.  Looked like strong ticket sales to me, especially given the forecast undoubtedly steering some away.

Oh ok that’s interesting. Maybe so they can label it a “sell out”? The floor space just isn’t very big it seemed. Maybe I’m salty bc I always go to Atlanta 😂 

joshd
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3/11/2024 8:25am

Who is charge of the tracks? Design, dirt, etc. 

 

I feel like they are trying too hard to have cute designs on paper. Build shit we know works. Who cares how it looks on paper. 

SonofThor32
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3/11/2024 8:55am
Gator724 wrote:
Knew it was gonna be terrible as soon as I played it on mx bikes. Really sucks bc the Atlanta speedway had delivered every year and...

Knew it was gonna be terrible as soon as I played it on mx bikes. Really sucks bc the Atlanta speedway had delivered every year and they just took it away for no reason 

It will be interesting to see where this ends up next year. The reason I am saying that, the stands were full at Birmingham.  I am...

It will be interesting to see where this ends up next year. The reason I am saying that, the stands were full at Birmingham.  I am not saying that was not the case for Atlanta, but it is easy for them to bring it back to Birmingham, especially when the venue makes it easy for Feld to run Supercross and Monster Jam back to back like they do, it is their recipe for $$ success.  
 

Gator724 wrote:

The whole upper deck was EMPTY. The stadium only seats like 45k 

I think the upper sections largely were not for sale, you maybe had to be there.  The lower sections were all full.  And back to my other point, just like Seattle, Feld is able to piggy back events with SX and Monster Jam, it is what they do.

Gator724
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3/11/2024 9:09am
It will be interesting to see where this ends up next year. The reason I am saying that, the stands were full at Birmingham.  I am...

It will be interesting to see where this ends up next year. The reason I am saying that, the stands were full at Birmingham.  I am not saying that was not the case for Atlanta, but it is easy for them to bring it back to Birmingham, especially when the venue makes it easy for Feld to run Supercross and Monster Jam back to back like they do, it is their recipe for $$ success.  
 

Gator724 wrote:

The whole upper deck was EMPTY. The stadium only seats like 45k 

I think the upper sections largely were not for sale, you maybe had to be there.  The lower sections were all full.  And back to my...

I think the upper sections largely were not for sale, you maybe had to be there.  The lower sections were all full.  And back to my other point, just like Seattle, Feld is able to piggy back events with SX and Monster Jam, it is what they do.

Pretty sure they do monster jam at the jaguars stadium. Would be a good venue 

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SonofThor32
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3/11/2024 10:06am
Gator724 wrote:

The whole upper deck was EMPTY. The stadium only seats like 45k 

I think the upper sections largely were not for sale, you maybe had to be there.  The lower sections were all full.  And back to my...

I think the upper sections largely were not for sale, you maybe had to be there.  The lower sections were all full.  And back to my other point, just like Seattle, Feld is able to piggy back events with SX and Monster Jam, it is what they do.

Gator724 wrote:

Pretty sure they do monster jam at the jaguars stadium. Would be a good venue 

Well, that is too far for me to drive Laughing  

Kidding aside, I am just speculating that venues like Atlanta where they do not have the option of using the same dirt and venue to also run Monster Jam within a week or two, are obviously more "expensive" for Feld, or at least, less profitable.  It seems that especially the stadiums, almost always have Monster Jam following SX, it is a great way to maximize efforts and make the most profit.  If Feld has the ability to host an event in a given region in one venue that proves to sell seats, and can also run Monster Jam, they will pick that venue every time.  My only point for Birmingham, they had good attendance, they are also running Monster Jam, I would not be surprised if Birmingham is not back on the schedule for 2025.  I was honestly pleasantly surprised by the attendance, and the stadium and city was awesome, if the track had been better, it would have been perfect.

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