Sexton’s Secret Suspension Switch to KYB?

soggy
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3/5/2024 7:14am
ILoveMoto wrote:
But with KTM owning most of WP, if not all, they don't want to let the public know they're using a competitors product. It's just a...

But with KTM owning most of WP, if not all, they don't want to let the public know they're using a competitors product. It's just a bad look.

Whoever didn't cover up those parts of the bike will get yelled at 3 times worse than ML got yelled at. 

Paging so n so to Roger's office 😳

The hole in that theory is that any one in the general public that’s enough in the weeds to know chase is running kyb inserts doesn’t care that he’s running them and I don’t think it would influence a buying decision. 

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ILoveMoto
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3/5/2024 7:26am
soggy wrote:
The hole in that theory is that any one in the general public that’s enough in the weeds to know chase is running kyb inserts doesn’t...

The hole in that theory is that any one in the general public that’s enough in the weeds to know chase is running kyb inserts doesn’t care that he’s running them and I don’t think it would influence a buying decision. 

Engineer's and marketer's are a proud bunch. Keeping it a secret is also to lessen the blow to their egos. 

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ML512
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ML512 wrote:

Anyone want to go to the races in my place next week?

Sandusky26 wrote:

We need to see inside the air boxes on the KX450's

GP bits from early last year has what you’re searching for.

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Markopolo400
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3/5/2024 7:44am

KTM has gone corporate.

Triumph is the new KTM.

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1

The Shop

3/5/2024 7:54am

The overreaction to someone simply pointing out what they're running is odd. People take pictures of the bikes. It's more weird that Mike is the only one that noticed. At least KTM is willing to give Chase what he thinks he needs to be comfortable. You got Kawi over there ruining Anderson's '23 sx season because they wouldn't give him the bike he wanted. And that's the tip of the iceberg with Kawi

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ILoveMoto
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3/5/2024 8:00am

KTM has gone corporate.

Triumph is the new KTM.

image 151

image 152

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Mit12
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3/5/2024 8:59am Edited Date/Time 3/5/2024 9:01am

I think that this is more than just getting comfortable for Chase. He was on Honda with Jett using Showa suspension. He switched to KTM trying to gain an advantage over Jett and Honda. KTM said that they would do what ever Chase wanted to get him to win. It looks like KTM is willing to use the best ideas from other brands to build a better bike. Seems like KTM is putting aside their ego to get back on top of SX again. Smart move. 

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3/5/2024 9:41am

KTM has gone corporate.

Triumph is the new KTM.

KTM has always been corporate. "Unprofessional" is the term you're looking for. 

Hopefully they feel the full blowback of the Streisand effect. And this is coming from a KTM owner...

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3/5/2024 9:43am
Mit12 wrote:
I think that this is more than just getting comfortable for Chase. He was on Honda with Jett using Showa suspension. He switched to KTM trying...

I think that this is more than just getting comfortable for Chase. He was on Honda with Jett using Showa suspension. He switched to KTM trying to gain an advantage over Jett and Honda. KTM said that they would do what ever Chase wanted to get him to win. It looks like KTM is willing to use the best ideas from other brands to build a better bike. Seems like KTM is putting aside their ego to get back on top of SX again. Smart move. 

But the way they handled this situation is no bueno.

3/5/2024 11:21am
DonM wrote:

Is this any different than when Kenny switched from Showa to KYB on his Honda?

Honda didnt try to hide it by running the opposing company's stickers on them.

Madmax31 wrote:

They're still WP outers so how much do they need to change to satisfy your needs for stickers?  WGAS.  

Im afraid I dont understand your point. 

Honda decided on using different components and ran them with no shame, clearly open for all to see. 
KTM, tried to cover it up by putting WP stickers whilst using KYB components. OK, 50/50 components. But the bit that matters was................?

I dont get what your point is. 

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Money
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3/5/2024 11:41am
Mit12 wrote:
I think that this is more than just getting comfortable for Chase. He was on Honda with Jett using Showa suspension. He switched to KTM trying...

I think that this is more than just getting comfortable for Chase. He was on Honda with Jett using Showa suspension. He switched to KTM trying to gain an advantage over Jett and Honda. KTM said that they would do what ever Chase wanted to get him to win. It looks like KTM is willing to use the best ideas from other brands to build a better bike. Seems like KTM is putting aside their ego to get back on top of SX again. Smart move. 

But yet they already had a 2 time 450 Sx champ asking for the same stuff chase has now and they couldn’t let there egos go and let him walk. Stupid decision by ktm there. 

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truck
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3/5/2024 1:54pm

Some of you seem to have a really hard time accepting that chase is a more valuable commodity than webb over the past year and going forward.

Combine that with carrying yourself like a constant professional vs getting warnings about flipping the bird over the finish line, always whining about things, etc, and it's not hard to figure out why KTM might be a little more willing to work with chose than they were webb. 

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3/5/2024 1:58pm
truck wrote:
Some of you seem to have a really hard time accepting that chase is a more valuable commodity than webb over the past year and going...

Some of you seem to have a really hard time accepting that chase is a more valuable commodity than webb over the past year and going forward.

Combine that with carrying yourself like a constant professional vs getting warnings about flipping the bird over the finish line, always whining about things, etc, and it's not hard to figure out why KTM might be a little more willing to work with chose than they were webb. 

Is he tho? Webb has twice as many 450 chips (not gifted) and twice as many wins and 2nd in points. 

I just think there was bad blood between KTM and Webb, so it was a win-win for both to mutually separate. 

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docrick
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3/5/2024 3:17pm
APLMAN99 wrote:

R&D can often start with rip off and duplicate…..!

TeamGreen wrote:

Full Floater..?

Anyone?

Bueller?

Anyone? 

Don't know what you're talking about...  BTW, didn't Kawasaki have a similar situation with the Uni-Trak?

Don't know what you're talking about... Whistling

BTW, didn't Kawasaki have a similar situation with the Uni-Trak?

Full floater, and Buehler are old dude references.

Right around the time of the UNI track actually.

Its not so hard to figure it out and we are all guilty of both changing too fast and too often as well as being too rigid at times, and not changing fast enough.

For a manufacturer to develop a brand they have to stick with it. Us riders CAN be very fickle especially when cool factory options are available. I can't see factory riders being different in that department. They test and change between brands associated with that manufacturer seeking speed or feel. When speed or feel don't come......I know seeking both of those very well. lol

When we cannot find that speed or feel and begin to look outside of the. manufacturers chosen brands things get dicey. It's like wearing Adidas sweats and nike shoes, it can be done but it's an issue. 

KYB is associated with Kawasaki and Yamaha. Showa has been spitting me off of my Honda for decades. Suzuki somewhere in between and look where they are. KTM IS white power or WP. That IS the brand owned now by KTM. 

Taking KYB internals and putting them in KTM white power forks seems like a simple issue, but it is very complex indeed. 

It basically throws their brand under a bus It basically throws their brand under a bus Sexton hasn't had a comfortable front end longer than the Dolly Parton.It basically throws their brand under a bus when the fact is Sexton hasn't had a comfortable front end since .............since...................Bitcoin was a nickel. 

Yamaha made Reed wear blue. Honda wouldn't listen to McGrath, Kawasaki couldn't keep MC, RC, Stew or RV and Suzuki won't even listen that they need a button with either brand.

Manufacturers have brands they own, support, use and despise. Business is complicated then mix that with racing and younger humans trying to go fast at all costs!!!! I always look at these teams and operations in amazement that they are still racing!!!! Still in business and still doing the stuff we love to talk and mentally test.

 

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-MAVERICK-
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3/5/2024 3:17pm
truck wrote:
Some of you seem to have a really hard time accepting that chase is a more valuable commodity than webb over the past year and going...

Some of you seem to have a really hard time accepting that chase is a more valuable commodity than webb over the past year and going forward.

Combine that with carrying yourself like a constant professional vs getting warnings about flipping the bird over the finish line, always whining about things, etc, and it's not hard to figure out why KTM might be a little more willing to work with chose than they were webb. 

Is he tho? Webb has twice as many 450 chips (not gifted) and twice as many wins and 2nd in points.  I just think there was...

Is he tho? Webb has twice as many 450 chips (not gifted) and twice as many wins and 2nd in points. 

I just think there was bad blood between KTM and Webb, so it was a win-win for both to mutually separate. 

Let's not ignore the fact that Webb is also in his 8th year in the 450 class.

Sexton is starting his fourth. 

Both won their first 450 SX championship in their third year. Only time will tell if Sexton will win more championships. 

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Village Idiot
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3/5/2024 4:24pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2024 4:26pm
TeamGreen wrote:

Full Floater..?

Anyone?

Bueller?

Anyone? 

Don't know what you're talking about...  BTW, didn't Kawasaki have a similar situation with the Uni-Trak?

Don't know what you're talking about... Whistling

BTW, didn't Kawasaki have a similar situation with the Uni-Trak?

docrick wrote:
Full floater, and Buehler are old dude references. Right around the time of the UNI track actually. Its not so hard to figure it out and...

Full floater, and Buehler are old dude references.

Right around the time of the UNI track actually.

Its not so hard to figure it out and we are all guilty of both changing too fast and too often as well as being too rigid at times, and not changing fast enough.

For a manufacturer to develop a brand they have to stick with it. Us riders CAN be very fickle especially when cool factory options are available. I can't see factory riders being different in that department. They test and change between brands associated with that manufacturer seeking speed or feel. When speed or feel don't come......I know seeking both of those very well. lol

When we cannot find that speed or feel and begin to look outside of the. manufacturers chosen brands things get dicey. It's like wearing Adidas sweats and nike shoes, it can be done but it's an issue. 

KYB is associated with Kawasaki and Yamaha. Showa has been spitting me off of my Honda for decades. Suzuki somewhere in between and look where they are. KTM IS white power or WP. That IS the brand owned now by KTM. 

Taking KYB internals and putting them in KTM white power forks seems like a simple issue, but it is very complex indeed. 

It basically throws their brand under a bus It basically throws their brand under a bus Sexton hasn't had a comfortable front end longer than the Dolly Parton.It basically throws their brand under a bus when the fact is Sexton hasn't had a comfortable front end since .............since...................Bitcoin was a nickel. 

Yamaha made Reed wear blue. Honda wouldn't listen to McGrath, Kawasaki couldn't keep MC, RC, Stew or RV and Suzuki won't even listen that they need a button with either brand.

Manufacturers have brands they own, support, use and despise. Business is complicated then mix that with racing and younger humans trying to go fast at all costs!!!! I always look at these teams and operations in amazement that they are still racing!!!! Still in business and still doing the stuff we love to talk and mentally test.

 

Obviously, my sarcasm wasn't that obvious (thought the FF '82 RM250Z in my avatar might be a giveaway). Whistling

I was saying I seemed to remember the Uni-Trak being the reason for a lawsuit (involving Joe Bolger?), independent of Suzuki's FF issues ( https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Death-of-the-Full-Floater-court-docs,1183473#post_4928483

And since my first Yamaha was a twin-shock, I probably qualify for the old-dude class. Grinning

Take care

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1
3/5/2024 5:09pm
truck wrote:
Some of you seem to have a really hard time accepting that chase is a more valuable commodity than webb over the past year and going...

Some of you seem to have a really hard time accepting that chase is a more valuable commodity than webb over the past year and going forward.

Combine that with carrying yourself like a constant professional vs getting warnings about flipping the bird over the finish line, always whining about things, etc, and it's not hard to figure out why KTM might be a little more willing to work with chose than they were webb. 

Is he tho? Webb has twice as many 450 chips (not gifted) and twice as many wins and 2nd in points.  I just think there was...

Is he tho? Webb has twice as many 450 chips (not gifted) and twice as many wins and 2nd in points. 

I just think there was bad blood between KTM and Webb, so it was a win-win for both to mutually separate. 

And Webb shows up for 50% of the season

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racerxx276
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3/5/2024 5:10pm
racerxx276 wrote:

If your going to go KYB ,why not run the hybrid fork that eli runs?

ML512 wrote:

They wouldn't have access to it. Only Star's 450 program has it here in the states, needs Japan to sign off on it, etc.

Nonsense, my buddy has 5 sets...if he can get them , so can KTM...image-20240305200628-1

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ace402
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3/5/2024 5:21pm
racerxx276 wrote:

If your going to go KYB ,why not run the hybrid fork that eli runs?

ML512 wrote:

They wouldn't have access to it. Only Star's 450 program has it here in the states, needs Japan to sign off on it, etc.

racerxx276 wrote:
Nonsense, my buddy has 5 sets...if he can get them , so can KTM...

Nonsense, my buddy has 5 sets...if he can get them , so can KTM...image-20240305200628-1

What is hybrid/different about these forks?

Marty1028
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3/5/2024 5:39pm

It doesn't seem to me that KTM themselves really care about the kits on the bike, or the mechanics would have tried to hide it better or told ML or other photogs to not shoot the bike....this really sounds to me like a team manager just being an asshole. 

CBE
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3/5/2024 5:42pm

It is possible that is a new fork design. Yes the top cap for the inner cartridge and the fork lugs are kyb. But, it is possible they used a mix of both kyb and wp internals. A kyb base valve assembly with a wp midvalve/damper rod. I don’t know..just speculation that there may be more going on. I have owned and worked on just about every wp,kyb and showa fork. WP has so much technology at their disposal, it’s hard to believe it’s just a kyb cartridge. For SX I just don’t see the incentive for tuning when they have like 5 productions forks and at least 3 factory forks I’m aware of.

ML512
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3/5/2024 6:15pm
racerxx276 wrote:

If your going to go KYB ,why not run the hybrid fork that eli runs?

ML512 wrote:

They wouldn't have access to it. Only Star's 450 program has it here in the states, needs Japan to sign off on it, etc.

racerxx276 wrote:
Nonsense, my buddy has 5 sets...if he can get them , so can KTM...

Nonsense, my buddy has 5 sets...if he can get them , so can KTM...image-20240305200628-1

The works caps can be had for PSF1, I have a set. There’s no way he has the LSF fork though. The cap isn’t what defines the hybrid fork.

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Mit12
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3/5/2024 6:42pm

But the way they handled this situation is no bueno.

Please explain what you think he did wrong?

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docrick
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3/5/2024 10:06pm
Flatliner wrote:

Chase wasn't comfortable on the Honda, and now the ktm? 

1911 wrote:

It almost like, the bike might not be the problem? Lol

Exactly. Chase is FAST is it the front end. Does he over ride the bike? Or is it a Chase issue? Or both. 🥸

3/5/2024 11:25pm

But the way they handled this situation is no bueno.

Mit12 wrote:

Please explain what you think he did wrong?

Go read MLs' response on previous pages 

Richy
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3/5/2024 11:36pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2024 11:38pm

KTM seem like assholes, at times.

How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture.

The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors.

The Webb thing last year.

Sending bikes out to customers with dire jetting and now mapping.

This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want.

When their fastest guy has to fit KYB to feel comfortable, and they throw a wobbly when one of the best media guys notices a clear and obvious fork change.

I'm sure there's more...

I know Suzuki is different as it's not factory, but as mentioned they didn't hide Kenny's suspension change. More relevantly, Kawi didn't hide their change to KYB for Tomac, even sold that year 450 SR with them.

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1
3/6/2024 12:01am
Richy wrote:
KTM seem like assholes, at times. How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture. The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors. The Webb thing last year. Sending bikes...

KTM seem like assholes, at times.

How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture.

The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors.

The Webb thing last year.

Sending bikes out to customers with dire jetting and now mapping.

This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want.

When their fastest guy has to fit KYB to feel comfortable, and they throw a wobbly when one of the best media guys notices a clear and obvious fork change.

I'm sure there's more...

I know Suzuki is different as it's not factory, but as mentioned they didn't hide Kenny's suspension change. More relevantly, Kawi didn't hide their change to KYB for Tomac, even sold that year 450 SR with them.

and convincing the FIM to change Super-Enduro rules, the day before the first race of the season, to exclude a competitor.

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1
Richy
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3/6/2024 12:08am
Richy wrote:
KTM seem like assholes, at times. How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture. The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors. The Webb thing last year. Sending bikes...

KTM seem like assholes, at times.

How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture.

The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors.

The Webb thing last year.

Sending bikes out to customers with dire jetting and now mapping.

This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want.

When their fastest guy has to fit KYB to feel comfortable, and they throw a wobbly when one of the best media guys notices a clear and obvious fork change.

I'm sure there's more...

I know Suzuki is different as it's not factory, but as mentioned they didn't hide Kenny's suspension change. More relevantly, Kawi didn't hide their change to KYB for Tomac, even sold that year 450 SR with them.

and convincing the FIM to change Super-Enduro rules, the day before the first race of the season, to exclude a competitor.

Man, I missed that, with how much enduro/off road involvement they have I'm sure there are plenty more gripes like that.

Not surprising with them being in bed with the FIM (and the Luongo's, but that's a another story).

I ride a KTM and all the bikes I've had since starting riding again have been KTM/Husky, so I'm basically a hypocrite, but I don't like seeing this stuff at all.

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Spoonguy
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3/6/2024 4:18am
Richy wrote:
KTM seem like assholes, at times. How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture. The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors. The Webb thing last year. Sending bikes...

KTM seem like assholes, at times.

How they treated Kailub Russell with his outdoor venture.

The Dungey/Cairoli disrespect outdoors.

The Webb thing last year.

Sending bikes out to customers with dire jetting and now mapping.

This relentless stubborn commitment to forks that most customers don't want.

When their fastest guy has to fit KYB to feel comfortable, and they throw a wobbly when one of the best media guys notices a clear and obvious fork change.

I'm sure there's more...

I know Suzuki is different as it's not factory, but as mentioned they didn't hide Kenny's suspension change. More relevantly, Kawi didn't hide their change to KYB for Tomac, even sold that year 450 SR with them.

and convincing the FIM to change Super-Enduro rules, the day before the first race of the season, to exclude a competitor.

Richy wrote:
Man, I missed that, with how much enduro/off road involvement they have I'm sure there are plenty more gripes like that. Not surprising with them being...

Man, I missed that, with how much enduro/off road involvement they have I'm sure there are plenty more gripes like that.

Not surprising with them being in bed with the FIM (and the Luongo's, but that's a another story).

I ride a KTM and all the bikes I've had since starting riding again have been KTM/Husky, so I'm basically a hypocrite, but I don't like seeing this stuff at all.

Been riding KTMs for decades myself and admire the way they support all aspects of racing. But the ultra-competitiveness of the firm sometimes shows itself in a bad light. This latest episode of "fork gate" is a prime example. That Austria cannot come to grips with admitting a competitor's fork might work best for some riders or has some advantages shows disrespect to their competitors, malice toward journalists of the sport, and dishonesty to their customers.

2
Karin123
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3/6/2024 7:24am
Per our own ML.

Per our own ML.

IMG 6430 0.jpeg?VersionId=2Rkh1lfJ.zoachV2B4gBfzEiRv4e

To get the rumours out of the world, I can confirm that this is a KYB internal conversion kit with axle brackets develloped and made by Technical Touch EUR The axle brackets are standard black with a KYB logo engraved but these onces were sand blasted, so you couldn't see the KYB logo anymore. For interested people, our KYB REAR SHOCK for KTM, GAS GAS AND HUSQVARNA, is performing also better then the WP shock !! Try it out !! This is one of our best selling kit suspension !

Jan Berthels, President TECHNICAL TOUCH USA

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